Madison Area

[The Ghostbuster]

I doubt lowering the speed limit will lower the speeds that traffic travels at. My evidence for this: every road in the world! At least the ones that allow automobile traffic.

[midwesternroadguy]

I've seen those 20 MPH speed limit signs. There are even some in my own neighborhood. I see it as an unnecessary reduction in the speed limit. 25 MPH speed limits were perfectly adequate for cars within neighborhoods in my opinion.

"The chances of fatalities are smaller at slower speeds".

Very NUMTOT. (with regards to anything non-car.)

Minneapolis and St. Paul lowered their city-wide speed limits to 20 mph.  Collectors are 25 mph.  Some arterials are 30-45 mph.

I generally don't mind 20 mph on neighborhood streets, and I'm surprised to say that.  The streets are narrow and have double-sided parking, so it seems safer at a lower speed.  My street is a designated as a local street, but is a borderline collector in function, with many curves, posted at 20 mph, and many people drive 40 mph on it.  I can't tell you how many close calls I've had as a driver and a pedestrian. 

I'd generally prefer it if designated collectors and arterials were 30 mph or more however (e. g. East Wash).  While I support the concept of livable neighborhoods and streets, cities do need to have corridors to move traffic. 

[WISFreeways]

Madison has also resynced their traffic lights on some of their major arterials so that you hit every red going the speed limit. What a bunch of bozos. All this will do is incentivize speeding and red light running.

[mgk920]

Madison has also resynced their traffic lights on some of their major arterials so that you hit every red going the speed limit. What a bunch of bozos. All this will do is incentivize speeding and red light running.

The Madison city council is too populated with 'cars = BAD!' types not to.

< sigh . . . >

Mike

[The Ghostbuster]

Hopefully, the two Stoughton Rd. corridor studies, and the Beltline corridor study will provide some congestion relief when they are ultimately constructed. A north-side bypass (like the long-proposed North Mendota Parkway) or a four-lane STH 19 (or all of CTH M being four lanes from US 12 to STH 113) would be nice to have, but I doubt any of that will see the light of day.

[SEWIGuy]

Madison has also resynced their traffic lights on some of their major arterials so that you hit every red going the speed limit. What a bunch of bozos. All this will do is incentivize speeding and red light running.

The Madison city council is too populated with 'cars = BAD!' types not to.

< sigh . . . >

Mike

How do you know this?

[silverback1065]

was the belting originally supposed to be a full bypass? I.E. it was supposed to connect to I-39/90/94 on both ends?

[mgk920]

was the belting originally supposed to be a full bypass? I.E. it was supposed to connect to I-39/90/94 on both ends?

No, it was jut piecemeal upgrades to US 12 over the years going back to the earliest days of automobility.  the original Beltline was at first a rural two lane US 12 bypass (all of the US highway routes originally went through the city) and that it then evolved into what it is today.  Remember that Madison only had a population of 20-30K in 1900.

Mike

[silverback1065]

was the belting originally supposed to be a full bypass? I.E. it was supposed to connect to I-39/90/94 on both ends?

No, it was jut piecemeal upgrades to US 12 over the years going back to the earliest days of automobility.  the original Beltline was at first a rural two lane US 12 bypass (all of the US highway routes originally went through the city) and that it then evolved into what it is today.  Remember that Madison only had a population of 20-30K in 1900.

Mike

interesting, have there been proposals for a full bypass? I would imagine the locals would hate it.

[The Ghostbuster]

Here is information on the long-proposed North Mendota Parkway from Bing (my preferred search engine): https://www.bing.com/search?q=north+mendota+parkway&gs_lcrp=EgRlZGdlKgcIABBFGMIDMgcIABBFGMIDMgcIARBFGMID0gEKMTAwOTczajBqMagCArACAQ&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=DCTS. It is no closer to construction than it was a few decades ago when it was first proposed.

[peterj920]

County M just opened to 4 lanes between Governor Nelson State Park/Oncken Rd and Willow Rd. It's a start. I'd like to see County K expanded to 4 lanes between M and US 12. That's basically the north bypass right now.

[mgk920]

County M just opened to 4 lanes between Governor Nelson State Park/Oncken Rd and Willow Rd. It's a start. I'd like to see County K expanded to 4 lanes between M and US 12. That's basically the north bypass right now.

I likely won't live long enough to see it, but I can envision them (especially Dane County 'K') eventually 'evolving' like the Beltline did.

Mike

[midwesternroadguy]

Madison has also resynced their traffic lights on some of their major arterials so that you hit every red going the speed limit. What a bunch of bozos. All this will do is incentivize speeding and red light running.

Madison used to have well synchronized corridors: the Johnson/Gorham/University corridor could be traversed without hitting a single red light from First Street to University Bay Drive back in the day. What happened? With all the reconstruction projects, were intersections not relinked?

[midwesternroadguy]

Here is information on the long-proposed North Mendota Parkway from Bing (my preferred search engine): https://www.bing.com/search?q=north+mendota+parkway&gs_lcrp=EgRlZGdlKgcIABBFGMIDMgcIABBFGMIDMgcIARBFGMID0gEKMTAwOTczajBqMagCArACAQ&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=DCTS. It is no closer to construction than it was a few decades ago when it was first proposed.

The first proposal for a North Beltline was in a MATS study from the 1960s. It went dark for a couple of decades, however there is local support for a reduced (non-freeway) corridor.  As urbanization fills in the territory around Waunakee, and Westport pursues incorporation, a new alignment looks less likely.  A new alignment would probably have to go north of Waunakee now.

[SEWIGuy]

Madison has also resynced their traffic lights on some of their major arterials so that you hit every red going the speed limit. What a bunch of bozos. All this will do is incentivize speeding and red light running.

Madison used to have well synchronized corridors: the Johnson/Gorham/University corridor could be traversed without hitting a single red light from First Street to University Bay Drive back in the day. What happened? With all the reconstruction projects, were intersections not relinked?

My guess is that was intentional.

[The Ghostbuster]

They probably prefer increasing congestion since they likely believe there's no point in reducing it (as in "we can't build our way out of congestion").

[SEWIGuy]

They probably prefer increasing congestion since they likely believe there's no point in reducing it (as in "we can't build our way out of congestion").

Having grown up in Madison and taking the Gorham/Johnson one-way pairs often, I will say that the traffic really moves on them - probably a little too fast for a residential neighborhood which is what it is on the east side. Using lights to slow the traffic isn't the worst thing in the world.

[The Ghostbuster]

When the segment of E. Johnson St. from Blair St. to Baldwin St. was reconstructed in 2014, they had considered converting that portion of Johnson back to two-way. Fortunately, they didn't. Personally, I think one-way streets should permanently remain one-way, although there have been plenty of conversions of one-way streets back to two-way.

[mgk920]

When the segment of E. Johnson St. from Blair St. to Baldwin St. was reconstructed in 2014, they had considered converting that portion of Johnson back to two-way. Fortunately, they didn't. Personally, I think one-way streets should permanently remain one-way, although there have been plenty of conversions of one-way streets back to two-way.

Like here in central Appleton, where several streets around the downtown core area were converted to one-way as an ill-fated/premature circulation thing.  By the early 10s, they had all been converted back.

Mike

[SEWIGuy]

When the segment of E. Johnson St. from Blair St. to Baldwin St. was reconstructed in 2014, they had considered converting that portion of Johnson back to two-way. Fortunately, they didn't. Personally, I think one-way streets should permanently remain one-way, although there have been plenty of conversions of one-way streets back to two-way.

Like here in central Appleton, where several streets around the downtown core area were converted to one-way as an ill-fated/premature circulation thing.  By the early 10s, they had all been converted back.

Mike

Same with State and Wells streets in Milwaukee which were converted from two back to one way years ago. It does get traffic moving, but its not very pedestrian friendly, and those who live on or near those streets HATE it.

[Plutonic Panda]

Count me as a fan of one-way streets in downtown areas.

[JREwing78]

After observing the massive positive change in downtown Janesville from the city removing its one-way streets, there's no way I would ever advocate going back to one-way pairs. 

When I first moved here, the 3-lane one-way Court St and Milwaukee St through downtown was like the damn Interstate, and drivers drove it that way. Converting the streets to two-way pairs and removing several stoplights for 4-way Stop signs made a huge difference. It dramatically calmed traffic. It's much easier to cross streets downtown now. The folks who were frustrated by how much longer it took to drive through downtown (which, honestly, might be 1-2 minutes) redirected themselves onto Centerway and other streets. Those folks drive around downtown now instead of through it. The traffic that's left in downtown now is there to BE downtown.

Madison has geographic features that make it hard to get away from one-way streets altogether, but they can be more strategic about it. They also have excellent reason to push use of the bus system instead of encouraging more car traffic. 

[Rothman]

Syracuse will be reverting Adams and Harrison streets to two-way.  That's probably a good thing.

But, given other cities where one-way streets have tangible benefits (NYC, SF), it's unfounded to have a blanket opinion one way or another.

[GeekJedi]

After observing the massive positive change in downtown Janesville from the city removing its one-way streets, there's no way I would ever advocate going back to one-way pairs.

When I first moved here, the 3-lane one-way Court St and Milwaukee St through downtown was like the damn Interstate, and drivers drove it that way. Converting the streets to two-way pairs and removing several stoplights for 4-way Stop signs made a huge difference. It dramatically calmed traffic. It's much easier to cross streets downtown now. The folks who were frustrated by how much longer it took to drive through downtown (which, honestly, might be 1-2 minutes) redirected themselves onto Centerway and other streets. Those folks drive around downtown now instead of through it. The traffic that's left in downtown now is there to BE downtown.

Madison has geographic features that make it hard to get away from one-way streets altogether, but they can be more strategic about it. They also have excellent reason to push use of the bus system instead of encouraging more car traffic.

In Waukesha, it wasn't too many years after WI-59 was re-routed to the Les Paul Parkway that they converted all of the one-way streets downtown to two-way. It really helped the local traffic flow, and was one of the catalysts that helped revitalize downtown.

The streets were originally two-way but it became necessary to convert to one-way back when 59 went through there because of the amount of traffic. Once all of that through traffic disappeared, handling that amount of traffic was no longer necessary.

It seems that a lot of "one-way" areas were configured that way for the same reasons.

[silverback1065]

Indianapolis is converting most of it's one ways to two way. I am in support of there being no one ways outside of downtown and that is mostly what is happening. some one ways downtown are being converted to two way because they don't need to be one way anymore. the only one ways that make sense downtown are the ones that remain with the exception of east, Alabama, and New Jersey streets.