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2020 Summer Olympics

Started by kphoger, July 09, 2021, 04:28:35 PM

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hbelkins

Does Japan have some sort of national law regarding required vaccinations? If there's a prohibition, then the IOC couldn't require something that runs afoul of the law.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.


LM117

“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

NWI_Irish96

If you just absolutely can't wait any longer for the Olympic action to start, the very first event is a Japan vs Australia softball game, first pitch at 8pm ET Tuesday (9am Wednesday in Tokyo).

First even involving American athletes is three hours later, when the US softball team takes on Italy.
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NWI_Irish96

Quote from: LM117 on July 19, 2021, 11:09:59 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

....aaaannnnnd a member of the US women's gymnastics team has Covid.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/member-u-s-women-s-gymnastics-team-tests-positive-covid-n1274334

According to her father, she was vaccinated. Remember, the efficacy of the vaccines is very, very good but not 100%. If you are in a field where you are subject to regular testing, like sports, you're going to have some positive tests among the vaccinated, but data shows that vaccinated people who get infected have far, far lower instances of actually getting symptoms.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: cabiness42 on July 19, 2021, 12:10:25 PM
Quote from: LM117 on July 19, 2021, 11:09:59 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

....aaaannnnnd a member of the US women's gymnastics team has Covid.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/member-u-s-women-s-gymnastics-team-tests-positive-covid-n1274334

According to her father, she was vaccinated. Remember, the efficacy of the vaccines is very, very good but not 100%. If you are in a field where you are subject to regular testing, like sports, you're going to have some positive tests among the vaccinated, but data shows that vaccinated people who get infected have far, far lower instances of actually getting symptoms.
Good. Hopefully there are no more cases.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

Scott5114

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 19, 2021, 09:10:14 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate. IOC already regulates what athletes can and can't put into their bodies (they bounced a US runner for testing positive for weed, which was legal in her state)...

It's still illegal on the federal level. Anyone with a CDL can't use.  Companies and organizations are permitted to have their own policies, and anyone with that company or organization must abide by that policy.

Alcohol is another example. It's legal to consume by anyone 21 or over, but one can't drive drunk.

Yeah, but a private organization like the IOC can set their standards for what is an acceptable substance to test positive for and what isn't, because, as you say, they're permitted to have their own policies. Legal status is irrelevant; that is between the athlete and the government. Especially since the IOC also operates in countries like Canada and the Netherlands where it's not an illegal substance on the national level. They can choose to just not test for cannabinoids if they like. I can't imagine that they have a performance enhancing effect, and there's really no risk of a runner losing control, flying off the track, smashing into the stands, and killing 62 spectators or anything like that. 

So IOC can set whatever standards they like, "just cuz". Clearly they have no problems doing so, as they have done so in the past. They are a private organization and have the rights to do so.

Since they can set whatever standards they like for athletes' bodies, why not set a standard that they must take the vaccine before competing? Sure, it's not available in every country, but they could have stockpiled enough doses for every athlete and had unvaccinated athletes ship out to Tokyo early enough that they could be fully vaccinated by the time the games started. The only approval that matters at that point is Japan's, and Japan has approved more vaccines for use on their population than the US has.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Rothman

Quote from: cabiness42 on July 19, 2021, 12:10:25 PM
Quote from: LM117 on July 19, 2021, 11:09:59 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

....aaaannnnnd a member of the US women's gymnastics team has Covid.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/member-u-s-women-s-gymnastics-team-tests-positive-covid-n1274334

According to her father, she was vaccinated. Remember, the efficacy of the vaccines is very, very good but not 100%. If you are in a field where you are subject to regular testing, like sports, you're going to have some positive tests among the vaccinated, but data shows that vaccinated people who get infected have far, far lower instances of actually getting symptoms.
Well, of course.  Getting vaccinated doesn't mean the virus bounces off of you like it's hitting a shield.  Rather, your immune system knows how to deal with it when you are infected.  I would think positive tests amongst the asymptomatic vaccinated would be expected.

Vaccinations should have been mandated for participation. 
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Rothman on July 19, 2021, 12:47:54 PM
Vaccinations should have been mandated for participation.
I agree
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

hbelkins

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 19, 2021, 12:39:09 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 19, 2021, 09:10:14 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate. IOC already regulates what athletes can and can't put into their bodies (they bounced a US runner for testing positive for weed, which was legal in her state)...

It's still illegal on the federal level. Anyone with a CDL can't use.  Companies and organizations are permitted to have their own policies, and anyone with that company or organization must abide by that policy.

Alcohol is another example. It's legal to consume by anyone 21 or over, but one can't drive drunk.

Yeah, but a private organization like the IOC can set their standards for what is an acceptable substance to test positive for and what isn't, because, as you say, they're permitted to have their own policies. Legal status is irrelevant; that is between the athlete and the government. Especially since the IOC also operates in countries like Canada and the Netherlands where it's not an illegal substance on the national level. They can choose to just not test for cannabinoids if they like. I can't imagine that they have a performance enhancing effect, and there's really no risk of a runner losing control, flying off the track, smashing into the stands, and killing 62 spectators or anything like that. 

So IOC can set whatever standards they like, "just cuz". Clearly they have no problems doing so, as they have done so in the past. They are a private organization and have the rights to do so.

Since they can set whatever standards they like for athletes' bodies, why not set a standard that they must take the vaccine before competing? Sure, it's not available in every country, but they could have stockpiled enough doses for every athlete and had unvaccinated athletes ship out to Tokyo early enough that they could be fully vaccinated by the time the games started. The only approval that matters at that point is Japan's, and Japan has approved more vaccines for use on their population than the US has.

I'm going to predict that the NCAA will also continue to test for pot despite its legality in a number of states.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

kphoger

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate.

I can easily imagine the blowback that would happen in countries that are still struggling to get vaccines out to the population, yet the vaccines are going to Olympic athletes instead.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 01:55:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate.

I can easily imagine the blowback that would happen in countries that are still struggling to get vaccines out to the population, yet the vaccines are going to Olympic athletes instead.
In most countries athletes would make up a fraction of the population.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

hotdogPi

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 02:37:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 01:55:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate.

I can easily imagine the blowback that would happen in countries that are still struggling to get vaccines out to the population, yet the vaccines are going to Olympic athletes instead.
In most countries athletes would make up a fraction of the population.

In which countries would it not?
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I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: 1 on July 20, 2021, 02:38:36 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 02:37:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 01:55:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate.

I can easily imagine the blowback that would happen in countries that are still struggling to get vaccines out to the population, yet the vaccines are going to Olympic athletes instead.
In most countries athletes would make up a fraction of the population.

In which countries would it not?
None, I was just making myself more criticism proof in case someone thought of a counterexample.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

hotdogPi

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 02:41:10 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 20, 2021, 02:38:36 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 02:37:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 01:55:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate.

I can easily imagine the blowback that would happen in countries that are still struggling to get vaccines out to the population, yet the vaccines are going to Olympic athletes instead.
In most countries athletes would make up a fraction of the population.

In which countries would it not?
None, I was just making myself more criticism proof in case someone thought of a counterexample.

What counterexample? Is there a √2 person anywhere?
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: 1 on July 20, 2021, 02:44:20 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 02:41:10 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 20, 2021, 02:38:36 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 02:37:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 01:55:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate.

I can easily imagine the blowback that would happen in countries that are still struggling to get vaccines out to the population, yet the vaccines are going to Olympic athletes instead.
In most countries athletes would make up a fraction of the population.

In which countries would it not?
None, I was just making myself more criticism proof in case someone thought of a counterexample.

What counterexample? Is there a √2 person anywhere?
Lol I get it
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: 1 on July 20, 2021, 02:38:36 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 02:37:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 01:55:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate.

I can easily imagine the blowback that would happen in countries that are still struggling to get vaccines out to the population, yet the vaccines are going to Olympic athletes instead.
In most countries athletes would make up a fraction of the population.

In which countries would it not?

There are irrational people all over the world.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

kphoger

Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

triplemultiplex

To be consistent, the IOC should also be testing for and banning the use of Ibuprofen and Aspirin and other painkillers.  If you're going to ban cannabis, but not these other pharmaceutical grade pain medications, then that's just rank hypocrisy. 
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

kphoger

Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 20, 2021, 04:42:42 PM
To be consistent, the IOC should also be testing for and banning the use of Ibuprofen and Aspirin and other painkillers.  If you're going to ban cannabis, but not these other pharmaceutical grade pain medications, then that's just rank hypocrisy. 

I can't see from here if your tongue is in your cheek or not...

Equating cannabis to Tylenol isn't exactly a smart argument.  No two drugs are the same, and a ban on one doesn't necessitate that a different one likewise be banned.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Takumi

Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 04:51:19 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 20, 2021, 04:42:42 PM
To be consistent, the IOC should also be testing for and banning the use of Ibuprofen and Aspirin and other painkillers.  If you're going to ban cannabis, but not these other pharmaceutical grade pain medications, then that's just rank hypocrisy. 

I can't see from here if your tongue is in your cheek or not...

Equating cannabis to Tylenol isn't exactly a smart argument.  No two drugs are the same, and a ban on one doesn't necessitate that a different one likewise be banned.

I’ve taken both cannabis and Tylenol. Tylenol never impaired me. Nor did it ever put me in the hospital.

(Full disclosure: I support marijuana being legal. Just keep it the fuck away from me.)
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
Olive Garden must be stopped.  I must stop them.

Don't @ me. Seriously.

Scott5114

#70
Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 04:51:19 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 20, 2021, 04:42:42 PM
To be consistent, the IOC should also be testing for and banning the use of Ibuprofen and Aspirin and other painkillers.  If you're going to ban cannabis, but not these other pharmaceutical grade pain medications, then that's just rank hypocrisy. 

I can't see from here if your tongue is in your cheek or not...

Equating cannabis to Tylenol isn't exactly a smart argument.  No two drugs are the same, and a ban on one doesn't necessitate that a different one likewise be banned.

Eh, I can kind of see where he's coming from. Tetrahydrocannibinol famously has psychoactive side effects, but it and cannabidiol are both quite effective as a pain killer, and can remain in someone's system as a pain reliever long after the high wears off. (This is why marijuana testing is bogus in general–while a Breathalyzer test can tell you exactly how impaired someone is in the moment, someone can test positive for marijuana for weeks after they consumed it.)

The basic question here is does THC and CBD present some sort of performance-enhancing effect that makes consuming it before competing unfair to the athletes that don't? (Kind of doubtful, I think.)  Does it produce some sort of safety concern? (Kind of doubtful, I think; Olympic athletes aren't really operating heavy machinery or doing much that could potentially injure a bystander, though it might be a good idea to not have the javelin tossers and shot putters be high.) Or did the IOC ban it just to ban it out of ignorance?

Quote from: Takumi on July 20, 2021, 06:47:22 PM
I've taken both cannabis and Tylenol. Tylenol never impaired me. Nor did it ever put me in the hospital.

This sounds like there's a story behind it.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Takumi

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 20, 2021, 07:56:32 PM
This sounds like there's a story behind it.
Suffice to say there was a woman involved.  It's not a night I wish to revisit. I also don't wish to ever revisit trying marijuana again.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
Olive Garden must be stopped.  I must stop them.

Don't @ me. Seriously.

thspfc

I don't understand why it has to be so hard though. It's not the Olympic committee's job to regulate the athletes' everyday lives. As long as they're not using PEDs then it shouldn't be the committee's problem. If an athlete wants to use cannabis then they can do that at their own risk and deal with the consequences (because it's not exactly broccoli in terms of health, is it).

hbelkins

Quote from: thspfc on July 20, 2021, 09:53:26 PM
I don't understand why it has to be so hard though. It's not the Olympic committee's job to regulate the athletes' everyday lives. As long as they're not using PEDs then it shouldn't be the committee's problem. If an athlete wants to use cocaine then they can do that at their own risk and deal with the consequences (because it's not exactly broccoli in terms of health, is it).

Would you still agree with that statement with the change I made above?


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Alps

Quote from: hbelkins on July 20, 2021, 10:21:59 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 20, 2021, 09:53:26 PM
I don't understand why it has to be so hard though. It's not the Olympic committee's job to regulate the athletes' everyday lives. As long as they're not using PEDs then it shouldn't be the committee's problem. If an athlete wants to use cocaine then they can do that at their own risk and deal with the consequences (because it's not exactly broccoli in terms of health, is it).

Would you still agree with that statement with the change I made above?
Cocaine may be considered a performance enhancer.



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