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State capitals

Started by Poiponen13, November 15, 2022, 01:10:15 PM

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CtrlAltDel

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 15, 2022, 07:57:05 PM
In some cases it is for political reasons. The capital of Illinois is Springfield out of an attempt to keep the state government insulated from the Chicago political machine and keep Chicago's interests from drowning out the interests of rural downstate Illinois. (I would guess most Illinoisans would say it hasn't worked.)

The capital of Illinois was moved to Springfield before Chicago was really a thing.
Interstates clinched: 4, 57, 275 (IN-KY-OH), 465 (IN), 640 (TN), 985
State Interstates clinched: I-26 (TN), I-75 (GA), I-75 (KY), I-75 (TN), I-81 (WV), I-95 (NH)


Rothman

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 16, 2022, 08:44:51 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 15, 2022, 07:57:05 PM
In some cases it is for political reasons. The capital of Illinois is Springfield out of an attempt to keep the state government insulated from the Chicago political machine and keep Chicago's interests from drowning out the interests of rural downstate Illinois. (I would guess most Illinoisans would say it hasn't worked.)

The capital of Illinois was moved to Springfield before Chicago was really a thing.
Yeah, the history of population growth in Illinois is pretty interesting.  Nauvoo once rivaled Chicago due to the Mormon influx (late 1830s/early 1940s)...but that was before Chicago really took off.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

GaryV

Quote from: kirbykart on November 16, 2022, 08:05:56 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 15, 2022, 02:21:50 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 15, 2022, 02:08:34 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 15, 2022, 01:43:19 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 15, 2022, 01:10:15 PM
Why in most states, state capital is not same as its largest city? For example, all of Australia's states and territories have their largest city as capital, as well as most European countries.
Canberra...
I meant that all states and territories of Australia have their largest city as capital:
Western Australia-Perth
South Australia-Adelaide
Victoria-Melbourne
New South Wales-Sydney
Queensland-Brisbane
Tasmania-Hobart
Northern Territory-Darwin
Uh huh...while deliberately omitting the fact that the largest city in Australia is not its national capital.

Largest isn't always the best place for the capital...

And the reason Canberra was chosen was precisely because it was halfway between the two largest cities (Sydney and Melbourne).

The constitution required the new capital of the Commonwealth to be at least 100 miles from Sydney. Prior to Canberra being completed in 1927, Melbourne served as the seat of government.


zzcarp

Columbus, Ohio was put as the capital due to its geographical location at the center of the state, in 1816. Population-wise, it wasn't the largest city in Ohio until the sometime in the 80s when it passed Cleveland proper. The combination of Columbus having room for annexations that landlocked Cleveland didn't have, plus the rust-belt flight and population decline gave Columbus the edge.
So many miles and so many roads

TheHighwayMan3561

About a year before Minnesota became a state, the territorial legislature approved a move of the capital to St. Peter, which is a city in south central Minnesota just north of Mankato. However, before the bill could be signed, an opposed legislator stole the physical bill and hid with it, preventing the move from legally taking effect. For whatever reason it never came up again after that.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

Scott5114

Quote from: Road Hog on November 15, 2022, 10:10:08 PM
A state capital could be relocated at the drop of a hat as long as there was enough office and meeting space.

Who said you have to have a great big granite or limestone building with a cupola on top of it?

The capital of Oklahoma was relocated from its original location of Guthrie to Oklahoma City overnight, under cover of darkness. (The pro-Oklahoma City people were afraid the pro-Guthrie people would try to stop them if they did it during the day.)
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

mgk920

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 16, 2022, 08:44:51 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 15, 2022, 07:57:05 PM
In some cases it is for political reasons. The capital of Illinois is Springfield out of an attempt to keep the state government insulated from the Chicago political machine and keep Chicago's interests from drowning out the interests of rural downstate Illinois. (I would guess most Illinoisans would say it hasn't worked.)

The capital of Illinois was moved to Springfield before Chicago was really a thing.

At statehood, Springfield was the population core of Illinois and today's Chicago was an uninhabited (except for a small military presence and a few aboriginal camps) wide open swampy plain.

Wisconsin's original state capital was in Belmont, WI, later moved to the more centrally located (at the time) Madison.

Mike

Ted$8roadFan

Quote from: US 89 on November 15, 2022, 10:24:22 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on November 15, 2022, 10:10:08 PM
A state capital could be relocated at the drop of a hat as long as there was enough office and meeting space.

Who said you have to have a great big granite or limestone building with a cupola on top of it?

Indeed. See Florida:



The capitol is in this photo... but it's the ugly looking skyscraper thing in the background. The historic building in front with the flags on top is the Old Capitol, which was the capitol building before 1977.

Here is an article about the man who inadvertently spurred the effort to built said skyscraper in Tallahassee:

http://justicebuilding.blogspot.com/2017/05/harold-fields-and-lee-weissenborn-have.html

dvferyance

Alabama- Montgomery no
Alaska -Juneau no
Arizona- Phoenix yes
Arkansas- Little Rock yes
California-Sacramento no
Colorado- Denver yes
Connecticut-Hartford yes
Delaware- Dover no
Florida- Tallahassee no
Georgia-Atlanta yes
Hawaii-Honolulu yes
Idaho- Boise yes
Illinios- Springfield no
Indiana- Indianapolis yes
Iowa- Des Moines yes
Kansas- Topeka no
Kentucky- Frankfort no
Louisiana- Baton Rouge no
Maine- Augusta no
Maryland- Annapolis no
Massachusetts Boston yes
Michigan- Lansing no
Minnesota- St Paul no (While not the state's largest city itself. It is within the state's largest metro area)
Mississippi- Jackson yes
Missouri- Jefferson City no
Montana-Helena no
Nebraska- Lincoln no
Nevada- Carson City no
New Hampshire- Concord no
New Jersey- Trenton no
New Mexico- Santa Fe no
New York- Albany no
Ohio- Columbus yes
Oklahoma- Oklahoma City yes
Oregon- Salem no
Pennsylvania- Harrisburg no
Rhode Island- Providence yes
South Carolina- Columbia yes
South Dakota -Pierre no
Tennessee- Nashville yes (Although until recently Memphis was the largest city)
Texas- Austin no
Utah-Salt Lake City yes
Vermont-Montpellier no
Virginia-Richmond no
Washington- Olympia no (It could be considered part of the Seattle metro area the state's largest metro but I am not sure)
West Virgina- Charleston yes
Wisconsin- Madison no
Wyoming- Cheyenne yes


Flint1979

In Michigan, Lansing is in between the largest city and second largest city in the state.

US 89

The original capital of Utah Territory was Fillmore, a small farm town located off modern I-15 in the central part of the state. The site was chosen for its central location and due to a perception that locating it away from Salt Lake would insulate the state government from too much Mormon influence - or at least give that appearance to the federal government. Not sure how effective that was, given that almost all the legislators were LDS church members and Brigham Young, their prophet, was the territorial governor...

The thing was that a huge percentage of the population lived in or in the area of Salt Lake, about 150 miles north of Fillmore. Because Fillmore was out in the sticks, it took a good long while for the territorial statehouse to be built. And so for the first 4 years, the territorial assembly met in Salt Lake City while the statehouse was being built. By 1855, the south wing was done and the assembly met in Fillmore that year. Apparently that wasn't too popular, because after that they gave up on the Fillmore statehouse project entirely and moved the capital officially tO SLC, where it has remained since.

Poiponen13

Alaska's capital could be moved out from Juneau, possibly to Anchorage because it is the largest city.

webny99

Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 17, 2022, 02:51:09 AM
Alaska's capital could be moved out from Juneau, possibly to Anchorage because it is the largest city.

It couldn't be moved by road, though.   :D

plain

Quote from: dvferyance on November 16, 2022, 07:46:12 PM
Alabama- Montgomery no
Alaska -Juneau no
Arizona- Phoenix yes
Arkansas- Little Rock yes
California-Sacramento no
Colorado- Denver yes
Connecticut-Hartford yes
Delaware- Dover no
Florida- Tallahassee no
Georgia-Atlanta yes
Hawaii-Honolulu yes
Idaho- Boise yes
Illinios- Springfield no
Indiana- Indianapolis yes
Iowa- Des Moines yes
Kansas- Topeka no
Kentucky- Frankfort no
Louisiana- Baton Rouge no
Maine- Augusta no
Maryland- Annapolis no
Massachusetts Boston yes
Michigan- Lansing no
Minnesota- St Paul no (While not the state's largest city itself. It is within the state's largest metro area)
Mississippi- Jackson yes
Missouri- Jefferson City no
Montana-Helena no
Nebraska- Lincoln no
Nevada- Carson City no
New Hampshire- Concord no
New Jersey- Trenton no
New Mexico- Santa Fe no
New York- Albany no
Ohio- Columbus yes
Oklahoma- Oklahoma City yes
Oregon- Salem no
Pennsylvania- Harrisburg no
Rhode Island- Providence yes
South Carolina- Columbia yes
South Dakota -Pierre no
Tennessee- Nashville yes (Although until recently Memphis was the largest city)
Texas- Austin no
Utah-Salt Lake City yes
Vermont-Montpellier no
Virginia-Richmond no
Washington- Olympia no (It could be considered part of the Seattle metro area the state's largest metro but I am not sure)
West Virgina- Charleston yes
Wisconsin- Madison no
Wyoming- Cheyenne yes

Bridgeport is Connecticut's largest city.
Newark born, Richmond bred

elsmere241

Dover may be the official capital of Delaware, but in many ways, Wilmington (the largest city) is the functional capital.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: plain on November 17, 2022, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 16, 2022, 07:46:12 PM
Alabama- Montgomery no
Alaska -Juneau no
Arizona- Phoenix yes
Arkansas- Little Rock yes
California-Sacramento no
Colorado- Denver yes
Connecticut-Hartford yes
Delaware- Dover no
Florida- Tallahassee no
Georgia-Atlanta yes
Hawaii-Honolulu yes
Idaho- Boise yes
Illinios- Springfield no
Indiana- Indianapolis yes
Iowa- Des Moines yes
Kansas- Topeka no
Kentucky- Frankfort no
Louisiana- Baton Rouge no
Maine- Augusta no
Maryland- Annapolis no
Massachusetts Boston yes
Michigan- Lansing no
Minnesota- St Paul no (While not the state's largest city itself. It is within the state's largest metro area)
Mississippi- Jackson yes
Missouri- Jefferson City no
Montana-Helena no
Nebraska- Lincoln no
Nevada- Carson City no
New Hampshire- Concord no
New Jersey- Trenton no
New Mexico- Santa Fe no
New York- Albany no
Ohio- Columbus yes
Oklahoma- Oklahoma City yes
Oregon- Salem no
Pennsylvania- Harrisburg no
Rhode Island- Providence yes
South Carolina- Columbia yes
South Dakota -Pierre no
Tennessee- Nashville yes (Although until recently Memphis was the largest city)
Texas- Austin no
Utah-Salt Lake City yes
Vermont-Montpellier no
Virginia-Richmond no
Washington- Olympia no (It could be considered part of the Seattle metro area the state's largest metro but I am not sure)
West Virgina- Charleston yes
Wisconsin- Madison no
Wyoming- Cheyenne yes

Bridgeport is Connecticut's largest city.

Charleston is South Carolina's largest city.

kphoger

Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 17, 2022, 02:51:09 AM
Alaska's capital could be moved out from Juneau, possibly to Anchorage because it is the largest city.

So... you didn't read the rest of the replies before posting?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

triplemultiplex

Quote from: Road Hog on November 15, 2022, 10:10:08 PM
A state capital could be relocated at the drop of a hat as long as there was enough office and meeting space.

Who said you have to have a great big granite or limestone building with a cupola on top of it?

Yeah but civic pride!
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

hbelkins

Are we talking about capitals or capitols?

It probably doesn't need to be pointed out to this group that one refers to the city, while the other one refers to the building where (usually) the governor's office is located.

I was very surprised during my trip to AASHTO's Subcommittee on Transportation Communications (TransComm) conference in Annapolis a few years ago to find out that many Maryland state offices and agencies are actually located in Baltimore, not Annapolis.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

kphoger

But there isn't any state whose capitol isn't in its capital, right?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Urban Prairie Schooner

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 16, 2022, 02:08:44 PM
About a year before Minnesota became a state, the territorial legislature approved a move of the capital to St. Peter, which is a city in south central Minnesota just north of Mankato. However, before the bill could be signed, an opposed legislator stole the physical bill and hid with it, preventing the move from legally taking effect. For whatever reason it never came up again after that.

Robbing (St.) Peter to pay (St.) Paul. :)

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: kphoger on November 17, 2022, 03:16:38 PM
But there isn't any state whose capitol isn't in its capital, right?

Every state's capitol (or what essentially serves as it since not all states have a building by that name) is in the capital city. In some states, such as Maryland and Illinois, a significant number of state government offices are located in Baltimore and Chicago, but the building that houses the legislature and the governor's office is still in Annapolis/Springfield.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

bulldog1979

When Michigan became a state in 1837, the Constitution of 1835 required that the state capital move in ten years. At the time, Detroit was on the border with a hostile power: British North America, and the city had been invaded by the British during the War of 1812. At the time, there was a movement in the US to not locate state capitals in the states' largest cities to avoid the concentration of power and resulting corruption.

The story of how Lansing was chosen could take up another post on its own. One fun fact is that Lansing is not the seat of its county. Mason pre-dates Lansing and is centrally located in Ingham County, so it remains the county seat. There are satellite offices for county government in Lansing, but that's hardly unusual. Marquette is the seat of Marquette County, but there is a courthouse in Ishpeming to hear cases there originating from half of thee county's municipalities.

Flint1979

Quote from: bulldog1979 on November 18, 2022, 02:57:10 AM
When Michigan became a state in 1837, the Constitution of 1835 required that the state capital move in ten years. At the time, Detroit was on the border with a hostile power: British North America, and the city had been invaded by the British during the War of 1812. At the time, there was a movement in the US to not locate state capitals in the states' largest cities to avoid the concentration of power and resulting corruption.

The story of how Lansing was chosen could take up another post on its own. One fun fact is that Lansing is not the seat of its county. Mason pre-dates Lansing and is centrally located in Ingham County, so it remains the county seat. There are satellite offices for county government in Lansing, but that's hardly unusual. Marquette is the seat of Marquette County, but there is a courthouse in Ishpeming to hear cases there originating from half of thee county's municipalities.
Mason was setup to become the capital of Michigan in 1836 when Charles Noble purchased an area of forest and cleared 20 acres originally called Mason Center but the Center of course was dropped. The state chose Lansing due to it's potential for water power. Lansing was still a Township at that time. Noble managed to make Mason the county seat instead and the first courthouse was built in Mason in 1843.

kkt

Quote from: hbelkins on November 17, 2022, 03:11:45 PM
Are we talking about capitals or capitols?

It probably doesn't need to be pointed out to this group that one refers to the city, while the other one refers to the building where (usually) the governor's office is located.

I was very surprised during my trip to AASHTO's Subcommittee on Transportation Communications (TransComm) conference in Annapolis a few years ago to find out that many Maryland state offices and agencies are actually located in Baltimore, not Annapolis.

The capitol is usually where the legislature meets, usually not where the governor's office is.



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