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Unbuilt Freeway in Superior?

Started by chrismarion100, January 01, 2023, 01:54:19 AM

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chrismarion100

I was looking around back in time on Google Earth Pro and noticed that the old US 2 and Belknap St intersection reminds me of the typical intersections at the end of freeways where you can tell the freeway was supposed to continue but was canceled for one reason or another. This makes me question whether at one point in time build a freeway from Bong Bridge to the south and probably connect with US 53.


mgk920

It was to run due southward from that ghost interchange along the west side of that railroad yard and then due eastward across the far south edge of the city of Superior to feed into the US 2/53 freeway heading southeastward from town.  IIRC, that bypass freeway was cancelled back in the late 1970s.

Mike

thspfc

Quote from: mgk920 on January 01, 2023, 03:31:53 AM
It was to run due southward from that ghost interchange along the west side of that railroad yard and then due eastward across the far south edge of the city of Superior to feed into the US 2/53 freeway heading southeastward from town.  IIRC, that bypass freeway was cancelled back in the late 1970s.

Mike
And the cancellation was a good decision because Superior's population has shrunk every decade since. The population decline was probably a factor in the decision because Superior peaked around 40k people in the early 1900s.

Rothman

Quote from: thspfc on January 02, 2023, 11:59:16 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 01, 2023, 03:31:53 AM
It was to run due southward from that ghost interchange along the west side of that railroad yard and then due eastward across the far south edge of the city of Superior to feed into the US 2/53 freeway heading southeastward from town.  IIRC, that bypass freeway was cancelled back in the late 1970s.

Mike
And the cancellation was a good decision because Superior's population has shrunk every decade since. The population decline was probably a factor in the decision because Superior peaked around 40k people in the early 1900s.
The police appreciate it as well so they can keep issuing speeding tickets headed south out of town on WI 35...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

GaryV

Quote from: thspfc on January 02, 2023, 11:59:16 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 01, 2023, 03:31:53 AM
It was to run due southward from that ghost interchange along the west side of that railroad yard and then due eastward across the far south edge of the city of Superior to feed into the US 2/53 freeway heading southeastward from town.  IIRC, that bypass freeway was cancelled back in the late 1970s.

Mike
And the cancellation was a good decision because Superior's population has shrunk every decade since. The population decline was probably a factor in the decision because Superior peaked around 40k people in the early 1900s.
But if they had the freeway, wouldn't it have attracted people to the area? [/snark]

The Ghostbuster

I think the reconfiguration of the Bong Bridge/Belknap St./Garfield Ave. intersection into a roundabout was a good move. I still think the westbound on-ramp at Susquehanna Ave./Trunk US 2 is overkill without an eastbound off-ramp at the same location (of course, I am aware there is a bike path in the way of such an off-ramp).

triplemultiplex

It's always interesting to me how much consideration was given in the direction of Superior amid the planning of the 50's and 60's.  More than once, Wisconsin pitched the Twin Ports as the terminus for another north-south interstate.

My two best guesses are either there was someone on some legislature from that area with a lot of sway, or those planning entities included a lot of old timers who still thought of Superior as the second largest city in the state like it was at the start of the 20th Century.

Might also be that such a long highway to the far corner of the state would maximize the amount of federal money the state could get under the old 90-10 funding mechanism.  That certainly describes the wild, elaborate 1968 version of I-43.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

SEWIGuy

A couple of things.  First, I think not only Superior, but northern Wisconsin just had more people as a percentage of the state's population back then.

But second, I think there was a sense of "geographic fairness" when it came to the far north of the state back then. I worked in the UW System for many years, and every so often the topic of closing a campus would come up as a money saving idea.  And the natural thought was always Superior - it is the smallest campus and the most expensive campus BY FAR on a per student basis.  But I was told multiple times that the state would never close Superior. That it is the only UW school in the northern part of the state, and that part of the state needs to be served regardless of the cost.  Arguably the expansion of US-53 to four lanes was a result of the same mindset. I am not sure it was entirely needed.

So I think a lot of it was a hyper-sensitivity on being too focused on the southern part of the state.

Rothman

I participated in Superior Days when I lived in the area -- that was when representatives in the community go down to Madison to lobby local issues.  The saying back then was Madison had to be forced to recognize needs above WI 29 (or US 8).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Rothman on January 03, 2023, 09:54:16 AM
I participated in Superior Days when I lived in the area -- that was when representatives in the community go down to Madison to lobby local issues.  The saying back then was Madison had to be forced to recognize needs above WI 29 (or US 8).

It's all about perspective.

monty

I have often travelled US 53 from Ear Falls through Superior and on to International Falls to go fishing in NW Ontario. We always joke that we pass a lot of fish on our way to Canada. That corridor is full of fishermen on weekends throughout the season. I suspect tourist dollars play into road decisions to some extent. I certainly appreciate the US 53 improvements over the years.
monty

TheHighwayMan3561

#11
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 03, 2023, 09:20:55 AM
It's always interesting to me how much consideration was given in the direction of Superior amid the planning of the 50's and 60's.  More than once, Wisconsin pitched the Twin Ports as the terminus for another north-south interstate.

My two best guesses are either there was someone on some legislature from that area with a lot of sway, or those planning entities included a lot of old timers who still thought of Superior as the second largest city in the state like it was at the start of the 20th Century.

Likely both. This sort of thing is why the perception of the former political power of Minnesota's Iron Range has vastly outlived the region's glory days as that perception continues to play a massively outsized role in Minnesota politics, even to the point it has fooled some national candidates into thinking it's worth spending time pandering to them.

When I went to college at UWS from 2009-2013 and longtime WI-7 Congressman Dave Obey decided to retire in 2010, I think there was certainly a sense of loss in the area like the last few people finally realizing their long-held hope for a return of the glory days was misplaced. Indeed, even on the Minnesota side of Lake Superior that same election the epic 2010 red wave claimed longtime MN-8 Congressman Jim Oberstar in what was seen as a shocking event at the time.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

Henry

Given that most of US 53 between Superior and La Crosse is a freeway, WI's had plenty of chances to designate it as an Interstate. A northern I-37 would've been the most logical choice, since it's between I-35 and I-39. But that ship seems to have sailed now.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

sprjus4

^ La Crosse to Eau Claire is a 2 lane road, and only the portion from Eau Claire to Rice Lake is a fully controlled access highway. The rest of the road north to Superior is a 4 lane divided highway varying between some and no access control.

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: sprjus4 on January 05, 2023, 07:13:45 PM
^ La Crosse to Eau Claire is a 2 lane road, and only the portion from Eau Claire to Rice Lake is a fully controlled access highway. The rest of the road north to Superior is a 4 lane divided highway varying between some and no access control.

And US 53 isn't the recommended route between Eau Claire and La Crosse - WIS 93 is.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

SEWIGuy

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 05, 2023, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 05, 2023, 07:13:45 PM
^ La Crosse to Eau Claire is a 2 lane road, and only the portion from Eau Claire to Rice Lake is a fully controlled access highway. The rest of the road north to Superior is a 4 lane divided highway varying between some and no access control.

And US 53 isn't the recommended route between Eau Claire and La Crosse - WIS 93 is.

Actually most GPS and map sites will route you north on US-53 and east to I-94 near Osseo.

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: SEWIGuy on January 05, 2023, 09:15:16 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 05, 2023, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 05, 2023, 07:13:45 PM
^ La Crosse to Eau Claire is a 2 lane road, and only the portion from Eau Claire to Rice Lake is a fully controlled access highway. The rest of the road north to Superior is a 4 lane divided highway varying between some and no access control.

And US 53 isn't the recommended route between Eau Claire and La Crosse - WIS 93 is.

Actually most GPS and map sites will route you north on US-53 and east to I-94 near Osseo.

That's possible. But the basis for my statement was WisDOT's using La Crosse as a control city for 93 when it meets 53 in Eau Claire.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

midwesternroadguy

Quote from: mgk920 on January 01, 2023, 03:31:53 AM
It was to run due southward from that ghost interchange along the west side of that railroad yard and then due eastward across the far south edge of the city of Superior to feed into the US 2/53 freeway heading southeastward from town.  IIRC, that bypass freeway was cancelled back in the late 1970s.

Mike

The WisDOT Corridors 2020 Plan continued to show this "Superior Beltline"  when it was released in the late "˜80s.   

midwesternroadguy

Quote from: Rothman on January 03, 2023, 09:54:16 AM
I participated in Superior Days when I lived in the area -- that was when representatives in the community go down to Madison to lobby local issues.  The saying back then was Madison had to be forced to recognize needs above WI 29 (or US 8).

Unfortunately, northern Wisconsin's road needs just haven't been that great north of US 8. Corridors other than US 53, having needed or still needing some attention are US 63 to Spooner, US 51 to Woodruff, US 141, and US 2.  Many of these have been or could be addressed simply with more passing lanes.  While the north may feel neglected, I'm not sure that its roads needs are on par with the rest of the state. ( I'm not discussing my pet project of transferring STH 77 west of STH 13 to County Trunk GG southwest of Mellen, with a short connector on the west side of Clam Lake, particularly as a way to get to Ironwood these days).

JREwing78

Quote from: midwesternroadguy on August 01, 2023, 10:24:58 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 03, 2023, 09:54:16 AM
I participated in Superior Days when I lived in the area -- that was when representatives in the community go down to Madison to lobby local issues.  The saying back then was Madison had to be forced to recognize needs above WI 29 (or US 8).

Unfortunately, northern Wisconsin's road needs just haven't been that great north of US 8. Corridors other than US 53, having needed or still needing some attention are US 63 to Spooner, US 51 to Woodruff, US 141, and US 2.  Many of these have been or could be addressed simply with more passing lanes.  While the north may feel neglected, I'm not sure that its roads needs are on par with the rest of the state.

It's been discussed elsewhere on these forums, but punching any kind of expressway/freeway through or around Superior defines the word "Boondoggle". Either you're isolating the rest of the city from the waterfront (if one decided to follow the existing US-53 route), or you're building a "bypass" route that's so much longer that it defeats the point.

US-2/53 is certainly busy, and ROW is so narrow through Allouez that rerouting US-2/53 slightly NE along the Osaugie Trail would be a net benefit for local residents. I would be on-board with a relocated boulevard there. Otherwise, there's really nothing wrong with the current route as it sits. WisDOT has a high-speed expressway/freeway connecting Superior to Eau Claire, Madison and Milwaukee. About the only other thing Madison can do for them (besides bumping up matching state funding for city operations and schools) is to lend support for Duluth -> Minneapolis passenger rail.

JREwing78

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 05, 2023, 11:31:05 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on January 05, 2023, 09:15:16 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 05, 2023, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 05, 2023, 07:13:45 PM
^ La Crosse to Eau Claire is a 2 lane road, and only the portion from Eau Claire to Rice Lake is a fully controlled access highway. The rest of the road north to Superior is a 4 lane divided highway varying between some and no access control.

And US 53 isn't the recommended route between Eau Claire and La Crosse - WIS 93 is.

Actually most GPS and map sites will route you north on US-53 and east to I-94 near Osseo.

That's possible. But the basis for my statement was WisDOT's using La Crosse as a control city for 93 when it meets 53 in Eau Claire.

Hwy 93 has long been on WisDOT's agenda as the main through route connecting LaCrosse to Eau Claire, and built accordingly to fairly high standards, relatively level and straight despite the Driftless region's terrain. It's not clear why US-53 was never designated on this section, but that's been the long-term goal.

Rothman

Reroute US 2/53 along the Osaugie Trail?  Yeah, that won't happen.  The harbor has become a center for recreational events, including the dragon boat race.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

JREwing78

Quote from: Rothman on August 02, 2023, 03:22:29 PM
Reroute US 2/53 along the Osaugie Trail?  Yeah, that won't happen.  The harbor has become a center for recreational events, including the dragon boat race.

Just through Allouez, because the ROW is so narrow the sidewalk and front steps of the residences are right up against the street curb on both sides. The rest of US-2/53 has reasonable amounts of ROW on each side.

Rothman

Quote from: JREwing78 on August 03, 2023, 11:34:47 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 02, 2023, 03:22:29 PM
Reroute US 2/53 along the Osaugie Trail?  Yeah, that won't happen.  The harbor has become a center for recreational events, including the dragon boat race.

Just through Allouez, because the ROW is so narrow the sidewalk and front steps of the residences are right up against the street curb on both sides. The rest of US-2/53 has reasonable amounts of ROW on each side.
Not sure what the advantage is of zigzagging it through there is.  I'm sure a rail line would also be problematic.

Fun fact:  In order to beat Duluth in the race to attract the railroad, Superior gave up 1/3 of its property (at the time) to it.  One of the reasons why the entire waterfront has a rail line on it.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

triplemultiplex

Quote from: Rothman on August 04, 2023, 05:36:27 AM
Fun fact:  In order to beat Duluth in the race to attract the railroad, Superior gave up 1/3 of its property (at the time) to it.  One of the reasons why the entire waterfront has a rail line on it.

Superior did/does have the advantage of a more gradual slope down from regional highlands on their side of the harbor.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."



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