I-73 updates?

[TempoNick]

Ideally the US-23 corridor would be upgraded, but if right of way constraints and costs skyrocket due to acquisition, I say just head for a new terrain freeway alignment. If land concerns in specific areas arise, just shift the alignment further north. At least allow long haul US-23 traffic to connect into I-71.

Yeah, and don't give it some goofy number like Ohio Route 1023. If you're going to renumber a road, it should be High Street. The US Route designation is worthless on an urban surface road these days.

Kind of like that Ohio 161/37/16 abomination. Just give Broad Street a new number and turn 161 into the new 16.

[TempoNick]

Sorry if I'm repeating, I forget if I said this on this site or on another one, but the NIMBYs are missing a huge opportunity. If you build a bypass through there without any interchanges or at grade crossings, and enshrine that into law, it would serve as a buffer effectively cutting off sprawl into the northern part of Delaware County. The Ohio turnpike does that to a great degree so just turn it into a toll road.

[sprjus4]

^ No toll road, but definitely no interchanges - I could see that. Serve as a direct link for long-haul traffic to I-71.

[thenetwork]

The proposed Ohio Transportation bill is toying with another study in improving the Toledo-Columbus corridor.

https://www.toledoblade.com/local/transportation/2023/03/23/house-senate-disagree-on-final-13-5-billion-transportation-budget/stories/20230323109

What is more interesting, and what could finally "break" the dam, known as US-23 from Delaware to Columbus, is a second study to improve the corridor between Columbus and Sandusky -- home to Cedar Point, and gateway to the Lake Erie Islands.

Should a four-lane freeway or expressway connection ever be made between Sandusky and central Ohio, that could be even more reason for ODOT to create a better connection to Columbus, bypassing the US-23/Delaware County mess.

[zzcarp]

The proposed Ohio Transportation bill is toying with another study in improving the Toledo-Columbus corridor.

https://www.toledoblade.com/local/transportation/2023/03/23/house-senate-disagree-on-final-13-5-billion-transportation-budget/stories/20230323109

What is more interesting, and what could finally "break" the dam, known as US-23 from Delaware to Columbus, is a second study to improve the corridor between Columbus and Sandusky -- home to Cedar Point, and gateway to the Lake Erie Islands.

Should a four-lane freeway or expressway connection ever be made between Sandusky and central Ohio, that could be even more reason for ODOT to create a better connection to Columbus, bypassing the US-23/Delaware County mess.

Oddly enough, that Columbus-Sandusky expressway would follow the route of one of Ohio's earliest roads, the Kilbourne Road aka the Columbus-Sandusky Turnpike.

In the early days of Ohio statehood, one of the primary missions of the state government was to sponsor the development of transportation systems, such as roads and canals, throughout the state. One of the early highways in Ohio was the Columbus and Sandusky Turnpike, created via legislation of the General Assembly of the State of Ohio in 1826. The road followed a route that is roughly the same as routes 4 and 23 today.

Before US 23 was routed through Ohio, Ohio 4 followed its current route from Sandusky to Bucyrus, current Ohio 98 from Bucyrus to Marion, and current US 23 to Columbus (and to Portsmouth). It would be interesting to see them connect this historic corridor under one route number again.

Around 30 years ago when they were really looking at the I-73 corridor, I remember reading an article in the Norwalk Reflector about local leaders wanting to swing the I-73 corridor from Toledo and Michigan to Sandusky. Obviously that never happened (nor any of Ohio's portion of I-73), but it's interesting to see this idea coming back for study. Route 4 is a busy 2-lane road with heavy interregional truck traffic as well as summer tourist traffic; that corridor is probably due for upgrades in certain areas and maybe a couple bypasses at Bucyrus and Attica.

[thenetwork]

After reading the other thread about states with best connectivity, you can arguably say that Sandusky/port Clinton vacationland area is about one of the only missing direct‐connection "spokes" from "hub" Columbus.  There is no due north US or I- route from Columbus to Lake Erie.

[tigerwings]

From Ch 13 in Toledo:

https://www.13abc.com/2023/03/24/routes-nw-ohio-columbus-may-get-second-look/

TOLEDO, Ohio (WTVG) - An easier and cleaner route from Toledo to Columbus might soon be getting a second look.

And in addition, Sandusky will be part of the mix. This study will also include looking at a better route for Columbus to Sandusky, a place known for its tourism, but tourism is also economic development.

The article seems to be a rehash of others. By adding Sandusky are they thinking of upgrading OH 4 and bypassing Delaware county?

[TempoNick]

It makes the most sense to upgrade the existing US 23 for I-73. However, let me propose an alternate route: US 68 or Ohio 235 down to US 33, and then down 315/71 back down to US 23 as originally conceived.

Alternatively, you can wind it around the east side of Columbus into Newark and down to US 33, which can serve as i-73.

[skluth]

It makes the most sense to upgrade the existing US 23 for I-73. However, let me propose an alternate route: US 68 or Ohio 235 down to US 33, and then down 315/71 back down to US 23 as originally conceived.

Alternatively, you can wind it around the east side of Columbus into Newark and down to US 33, which can serve as i-73.

Just after I graduated college (late 80s), I shunpiked Chicago-Pennsylvania via US 30 and I-70. To get from one to the other, I took some back roads to OH 309 and then OH 31 from Kenton to Marysville. It was efficient and easier than continuing east on US 30 from Beaverdam back when it was only two lanes between I-75 and Sandusky. I agree it might be easier to use the US 33 freeway out of Columbus to reach Findlay rather than connect US 23 to I-71.

[zzcarp]

It makes the most sense to upgrade the existing US 23 for I-73. However, let me propose an alternate route: US 68 or Ohio 235 down to US 33, and then down 315/71 back down to US 23 as originally conceived.

Alternatively, you can wind it around the east side of Columbus into Newark and down to US 33, which can serve as i-73.

Just after I graduated college (late 80s), I shunpiked Chicago-Pennsylvania via US 30 and I-70. To get from one to the other, I took some back roads to OH 309 and then OH 31 from Kenton to Marysville. It was efficient and easier than continuing east on US 30 from Beaverdam back when it was only two lanes between I-75 and Sandusky. I agree it might be easier to use the US 33 freeway out of Columbus to reach Findlay rather than connect US 23 to I-71.

I think you mean US 30 goes to "Upper Sandusky" where it connects with US 23 versus "Sandusky" which is 55 miles north on Lake Erie.

Google maps show it is about the same timing for US 23-OH 15 and for US 33-OH 31-US 68 from Columbus to Findlay.

I went to college in Ada in the 90s and took pretty much all those roads to/from Columbus and north to Findlay. I was a big fan of Ohio 31 to US 33 for our Columbus adventures.

[TempoNick]

It makes the most sense to upgrade the existing US 23 for I-73. However, let me propose an alternate route: US 68 or Ohio 235 down to US 33, and then down 315/71 back down to US 23 as originally conceived.

Alternatively, you can wind it around the east side of Columbus into Newark and down to US 33, which can serve as i-73.

Just after I graduated college (late 80s), I shunpiked Chicago-Pennsylvania via US 30 and I-70. To get from one to the other, I took some back roads to OH 309 and then OH 31 from Kenton to Marysville. It was efficient and easier than continuing east on US 30 from Beaverdam back when it was only two lanes between I-75 and Sandusky. I agree it might be easier to use the US 33 freeway out of Columbus to reach Findlay rather than connect US 23 to I-71.

I used to go to Fort Wayne a lot. I used to take US 33 and then the State Route just to the east of Indian Lake up to Lima, and then up to Thayer Rd., I think it was, to get to US 30. I think that was a pretty good route, but I'm a little hesitant about laying freeway all across Ohio. I'd rather not tear up more of our land, but that's just me.

But then again, US 68 was envisioned as freeway between Springfield and Bellefontaine in some of the old plans.

[skluth]

It makes the most sense to upgrade the existing US 23 for I-73. However, let me propose an alternate route: US 68 or Ohio 235 down to US 33, and then down 315/71 back down to US 23 as originally conceived.

Alternatively, you can wind it around the east side of Columbus into Newark and down to US 33, which can serve as i-73.

Just after I graduated college (late 80s), I shunpiked Chicago-Pennsylvania via US 30 and I-70. To get from one to the other, I took some back roads to OH 309 and then OH 31 from Kenton to Marysville. It was efficient and easier than continuing east on US 30 from Beaverdam back when it was only two lanes between I-75 and Sandusky. I agree it might be easier to use the US 33 freeway out of Columbus to reach Findlay rather than connect US 23 to I-71.

I think you mean US 30 goes to "Upper Sandusky" where it connects with US 23 versus "Sandusky" which is 55 miles north on Lake Erie.

Whoops. Thanks for the correction. I should know better. Cedar Point is my favorite amusement park. Even more than Disney.

Google maps show it is about the same timing for US 23-OH 15 and for US 33-OH 31-US 68 from Columbus to Findlay.

I went to college in Ada in the 90s and took pretty much all those roads to/from Columbus and north to Findlay. I was a big fan of Ohio 31 to US 33 for our Columbus adventures.

[TempoNick]

The bill passed and was signed by Gov. Dewine. Enjoy the following quote from the Toledo Blade.

Also, amusing that it's called "House Bill 23."

Mr. DeWine said the Toledo area legislative delegation and other elected officials have made it clear that a better connection with Columbus is needed.

"I can attest that they're correct because I've made that trip many times,"  he said after signing House Bill 23 into law. "A trip between Toledo and the state capital is a long trip. It's a tough trip, and it's got a lot of stoplights out there."

The plan would fund a $10 million study looking out 10, 20, and 30 years into the future to project demographic, traffic, and economic development trends statewide and to make specific recommendations to get ahead of any expected issues.

https://www.toledoblade.com/local/transportation/2023/03/31/governor-signs-bill-to-look-at-toledo-to-columbus-connector/stories/20230331145

[Rothman]

The bill passed and was signed by Gov. Dewine. Enjoy the following quote from the Toledo Blade.

Also, amusing that it's called "House Bill 23."

Mr. DeWine said the Toledo area legislative delegation and other elected officials have made it clear that a better connection with Columbus is needed.

"I can attest that they're correct because I've made that trip many times,"  he said after signing House Bill 23 into law. "A trip between Toledo and the state capital is a long trip. It's a tough trip, and it's got a lot of stoplights out there."

The plan would fund a $10 million study looking out 10, 20, and 30 years into the future to project demographic, traffic, and economic development trends statewide and to make specific recommendations to get ahead of any expected issues.

https://www.toledoblade.com/local/transportation/2023/03/31/governor-signs-bill-to-look-at-toledo-to-columbus-connector/stories/20230331145

Given how much they're paying nowadays for these studies that usually don't go anywhere, I am on the wrong side of this business.

[TempoNick]

I think one of the problems here in Ohio is that they try to make everything too perfect and that's an excuse to never get anything done. They should just do freeways in Ohio like they do them in Texas. Just jam them through like they do in Texas and run frontage roads along the side.

The bones of that road are already there. Just close off the intersections, build a bypass around Delaware, connect to US 36, close that off too. Or run frontage roads all the way down US 23 until you get to I-270. There, done. If you want it perfect, you can fix the problems this creates later. Same with US 35 in Beavercreek. Just ram it through there, put in a bunch of frontage roads and that's good enough. Fix it later to make it perfect.


Link to Texas Image: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1d_J6JYWyq8x2ScAp3qIzd1jc0SZrzkf7/view?usp=sharing

[Rothman]

I think one of the problems here in Ohio is that they try to make everything too perfect and that's an excuse to never get anything done. They should just do freeways in Ohio like they do them in Texas. Just jam them through like they do in Texas and run frontage roads along the side.

The bones of that road are already there. Just close off the intersections, build a bypass around Delaware, connect to US 36, close that off too. Or run frontage roads all the way down US 23 until you get to I-270. There, done. If you want it perfect, you can fix the problems this creates later. Same with US 35 in Beavercreek. Just ram it through there, put in a bunch of frontage roads and that's good enough. Fix it later to make it perfect.


Link to Texas Image: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1d_J6JYWyq8x2ScAp3qIzd1jc0SZrzkf7/view?usp=sharing

Oh, is that all.

[sprjus4]

I think one of the problems here in Ohio is that they try to make everything too perfect and that's an excuse to never get anything done. They should just do freeways in Ohio like they do them in Texas. Just jam them through like they do in Texas and run frontage roads along the side.

The bones of that road are already there. Just close off the intersections, build a bypass around Delaware, connect to US 36, close that off too. Or run frontage roads all the way down US 23 until you get to I-270. There, done. If you want it perfect, you can fix the problems this creates later. Same with US 35 in Beavercreek. Just ram it through there, put in a bunch of frontage roads and that's good enough. Fix it later to make it perfect.


Link to Texas Image: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1d_J6JYWyq8x2ScAp3qIzd1jc0SZrzkf7/view?usp=sharing

I think the difference between Texas and this particular US-23 situation is the right of way available. In Texas, there's often a good amount of right of way preserved for frontage roads. Here, running frontage roads may require several takes due to properties being too close to the roadway.

While an urban 60-65 mph freeway down US-23 directly to I-270 would be the most ideal situation, the more realistic way to get it built is to build a rural freeway connection and use I-71 or US-33's existing connections entering the urban area.

[sprjus4]

^ However, I see your point about US-36 between Delaware and I-71. That could reasonably be upgraded into a limited access facility. I'm not sure why that has not been evaluated as an alternative.

[TempoNick]

^ However, I see your point about US-36 between Delaware and I-71. That could reasonably be upgraded into a limited access facility. I'm not sure why that has not been evaluated as an alternative.

That's what I was getting at more than the US 23 option. US 23 would probably be too disruptive and too expensive at this point. That said, they did do that with US 19 in Pinellas County, FL. Not quite a freeway, but lots of intersections removed by building overpasses.

You could also get away with only building frontage roads in a couple of spots. You run the bypass to just east of Meijers. Use the rest of US 36, maybe an interchange at the Kroger Warehouse and frontage roads built around the gas stations and fast food near the freeway. That is, if you don't condemn some of them. You can make traffic flow there like it would into a rest area or turnpike travel plaza.

That's the way to get this done. Fix the rest of it later.

I don't really like the US 33 option because you end up tearing up more farmland through there. I think it's good that that area should be preserved as farmland. I would hate to have tacky suburban homes all over the place through there.

[TempoNick]

Here is my proposal. I don't see why they couldn't push this through.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13wk8b7EnuzpGauKosMHCzSO7A0IlpS0p/view?usp=drivesdk

[seicer]

Your routing closer to I-71 is nullified by the Sunbury Parkway: https://www.dot.state.oh.us/projects/files/Scroll%20-%20Preferred%20Alternative%20-%202017-07-10.pdf

Otherwise, it would be an easy connector between Delaware and I-71.

[TempoNick]

Your routing closer to I-71 is nullified by the Sunbury Parkway: https://www.dot.state.oh.us/projects/files/Scroll%20-%20Preferred%20Alternative%20-%202017-07-10.pdf

Otherwise, it would be an easy connector between Delaware and I-71.

I would think it can be modified, but yeah, this is the easiest solution and it can get done. The only reason I think they won't do it is because they want that Waldo bypass and are going to make everybody suffer until they get it.

But then again, that goes back to what I was talking about before. Nothing gets done because they're trying to do the perfect when there is a good alternative.

[JREwing78]

I'm sure at some point someone brought this idea up, but what if ODOT built a WESTERN bypass of Delaware, roughly parallelling US-42 to US-33, then use I-270 around the west side of Columbus to loop around back to US-23 on the south side? Or worst case, just build a full-on freeway interchange at US-23 and US-42 west, then route a freeway down to US-33?

Right now, anyway, it's about 15 miles of new-terrain freeway alignment in favorable terrain  - the sprawl northward from Columbus hasn't *quite* reached US-42 yet. Connecting direct to I-71 would be somewhat shorter, but this might be more politically palatable.

Of course, the knee-jerk reaction would be to just punch new freeway/expressway down the US-68 and OH-292 corridors to East Liberrty, but now we're talking 50 miles of new freeway/expressway v.s. 10-15. At that point, (going really fictional now), I'd supplant all of US-23 north of the I-270 South Outerbelt with a US-223 designation and overlay US-23 on the new routing.

[thenetwork]

I'm sure at some point someone brought this idea up, but what if ODOT built a WESTERN bypass of Delaware, roughly parallelling US-42 to US-33, then use I-270 around the west side of Columbus to loop around back to US-23 on the south side? Or worst case, just build a full-on freeway interchange at US-23 and US-42 west, then route a freeway down to US-33?

Right now, anyway, it's about 15 miles of new-terrain freeway alignment in favorable terrain  - the sprawl northward from Columbus hasn't *quite* reached US-42 yet. Connecting direct to I-71 would be somewhat shorter, but this might be more politically palatable.

Of course, the knee-jerk reaction would be to just punch new freeway/expressway down the US-68 and OH-292 corridors to East Liberrty, but now we're talking 50 miles of new freeway/expressway v.s. 10-15. At that point, (going really fictional now), I'd supplant all of US-23 north of the I-270 South Outerbelt with a US-223 designation and overlay US-23 on the new routing.

Can't do a US-223 in Central Ohio, as there is that "all important" 1‐2 mile stretch of US-223 in Ohio along the US ‐23 duplex. 

[The Ghostbuster]

I think US 223 should still exist along present-day OH 51 within Toledo. Either that, or it shouldn't enter Ohio at all, and should end at US 23's Exit 5 in Michigan.