This is an offshoot of the topic How much has your metro area grown? (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32883.msg2831759;topicseen#msg2831759), in which I noted several NFL teams are not actually located in the city that they are in, but actually in the neighboring city. During that part, it was noted that the Las Vegas "Strip" wasn't actually in Las Vegas, but in neighboring unincorporated Paradise. Everyone considers it Vegas, there is even a "Welcome to Las Vegas" sign, but it's Paradise.
Here is another situation... Dallas is a major city in Texas, and is part of the Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX Metro Area (https://markholtz.info/msa-dfw) as well as part of the DFW Television Market. It's huge. So, at what point does a resident say they are a resident of a particular suburb city in Dallas verses just saying "I live in Dallas". Consider these facts:
- The city of Dallas is not only in Dallas county, but extends into Collin, Denton, Kaufman, and Rockwall counties as well.
- The cities of Cockrell Hill, University Park, and Highland Park are in Dallas county, and are completely surrounded by the city of Dallas.
- Multiple companies that we think are Dallas-based or have major operations in Dallas are actually in surrounding communities such as Irving, Plano, Richardson, and Addison.
- While Dallas Love Field is within the city of Dallas, DFW International is in Grapevine, although it is jointly administered by both Fort Worth and Dallas. The county line between Dallas County and Tarrent County (Fort Worth) runs roughly through the middle of the airport.
- The city that I live in is ⅔ in Dallas County, and ⅓ in Collin County, and I happen to live slightly north of the county line.
- The University of Texas-Dallas is actually located in Richardson, TX with the county line cutting through the middle of the campus.
- And, the Southfork Ranch is actually located in Parker, TX which is part of Collin County.
Or the fact that the Chicago Bears are negotiating for land in Arlington Heights to build a stadium. Arlington Heights can be considered a suburb of Chicago, but outside the control of city of Chicago. There is a LEGOLAND Discovery Center Chicago which lists it's address as being in Schaumburg, IL.
I know that part of the reason is that cities have grown tremendously since the 1950s, and the growth of suburbs has blurred the line between what is considered a "city" and "not a city". Where does one draw the line?
For me the line is clear, it's the literal southeast city limit of Fresno. I live west of that line in twenty year old neighborhood, east and south of that spot is open farm land. I spend way more of time in that farm land than I do the city to the west of me. The farmers aren't likely to sell their land and the city has no plans to annex any of those parcels. Most of the growth of Metro Fresno is towards the Sierra Nevada Foothills and San Joaquin River. The growth pattern makes sense since it involves parcels of land not suited for high profit agriculture.
To that end, I wouldn't consider cities in Fresno County separated by swathes of farm land to be part of the "Fresno" urban area. Some communities like that include Sanger, Fowler, Selma and Kerman.
When it comes to differentiating between city and suburb, some degree of nuance is not only acceptable, but required.
Here in the Rochester area, being "in the city" corresponds very well with the Rochester city limits. The city has distinct neighborhoods which are usually pretty easy to differentiate from the surrounding suburbs, usually with increased housing density and taller, narrower homes. Neighborhoods within city limits are often, but not always, perceived as inferior to those outside the city. On the east side, Homestead Heights is a good example of this, as are 19th Ward and Lyell-Otis on the west side. However, the southeast side runs counter to this, as the Browncroft neighborhood is notably more upscale than the neighborhoods east of NY 590 in Brighton, and the Rochester/Brighton line in general (which binds some of the city's nicer neighborhoods) is blurred considerably.
Our "outer loop" also corresponds very roughly with the city limits, so that tends to be somewhat of a dividing line too, but again, Brighton is an exception. Irondequoit is also somewhat of an exception, but it is by far the most city-like of all Rochester's suburbs (at least IMO; it's also the only suburb that lost population from 2010-2020, and I'd like to see it become part of the city, but that's another subject).
Even so, when telling someone outside the area where I'm from, I would say Rochester, and expect it to be understood that I mean the Rochester area and not necessarily the city itself. However, if someone from the Rochester area asked me where I live, I'd be more specific, with reference to the suburb, and possibly even the main road(s) nearest my neighborhood, depending on the context.
I've heard that in some areas, such as Detroit, people generally refer to the specific suburb they live in, even in contexts when "Detroit" would suffice, possibly because of the city's bad reputation. I'm not entirely sure how true that is, though.
Quote from: webny99 on March 28, 2023, 09:16:23 AM
Even so, when telling someone outside the area where I'm from, I would say Rochester, and expect it to be understood that I mean the Rochester area and not necessarily the city itself. However, if someone from the Rochester area asked me where I live, I'd be more specific, with reference to the suburb, and possibly even the main road(s) nearest my neighborhood, depending on the context.
This.
Before the 4th grade, I grew up in New Lenox, IL. Back then, I could go two miles south and hit farmland and gravel roads. When we were on family vacation somewhere, and I was in the hotel hot tub or whatever, I'd tell people I was from Chicago. But that isn't quite the same thing. If you had asked me if I lived in a city or a small town, I'd have told you I lived in a suburb.
When we then moved to a small farming town in a county with no stoplights, we might describe the difference between living "in the city" and living "in a small town". Different context, different vocabulary.
Fast-forward ten years, and I was attending college near Harlem & Division in River Forest (IL), with an L station a mile away. Even in an urban environment like that, going downtown could be called "going into the city".
Now I live well within the Wichita city limits. In pretty much all contexts, I say I live in a city–although I might, on extremely rare occasions, mention my part of town as a "suburban neighborhood".
It's a question of detail affected by familiarity. To people in Texas, I'm from Chicago, because they don't know the suburbs, and so telling them which one is not illuminating. To people in the Chicago area, I can be more specific precisely because they do know. Now, all this is in the first round. If people ask, of course, I can get more detailed as necessary.
It's similar, if admittedly annoying in my view, for companies and the like. For those with one or perhaps two facilities per urban area, they will often go with the name of the main city, even if the facilities are not in that main city. This is often the case with sports teams and the like, as the OP has noticed.
Essentially, what's happening is that "Chicago" can mean the "Northeastern Illinois Area" or the "City of Chicago," and potentially a number of gradations in between.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on March 28, 2023, 10:31:38 AM
Essentially, what's happening is that "Chicago" can mean the "Northeastern Illinois Area" or the "City of Chicago," and potentially a number of gradations in between.
There does seem to be a hard line, however, at the state line, doesn't there? I could be mistaken, but I think people in Hammond are more likely to say "northwest Indiana", whereas people in Calumet City are more likely to say "Chicago". Same thing for Kenosha.
"In the City" where I am from in NorCal historically meant being in San Francisco Proper. But that changed since San Jose overtook San Francisco as largest city in NorCal. Now that's been changed to San Francisco being nicknamed as SF ever since. South San Francisco have also followed the naming of San Francisco Proper too like "SSF" and "South City".
Oakland and Sacramento get the Nickname town included "Oaktown" and "Sactown".
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2021/08/12/san-jose-top-10-census-data.html (https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2021/08/12/san-jose-top-10-census-data.html)
https://www.charlottestories.com/charlotte-just-overtook-san-francisco-to-become-the-15th-biggest-city-in-america/ (https://www.charlottestories.com/charlotte-just-overtook-san-francisco-to-become-the-15th-biggest-city-in-america/)
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2023/03/24/falling-populations-bay-area-downtowns.html (https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2023/03/24/falling-populations-bay-area-downtowns.html)
Quote from: kphoger on March 28, 2023, 10:38:01 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on March 28, 2023, 10:31:38 AM
Essentially, what's happening is that "Chicago" can mean the "Northeastern Illinois Area" or the "City of Chicago," and potentially a number of gradations in between.
There does seem to be a hard line, however, at the state line, doesn't there? I could be mistaken, but I think people in Hammond are more likely to say "northwest Indiana", whereas people in Calumet City are more likely to say "Chicago". Same thing for Kenosha.
There is definitely a "Desire for Affiliation" factor as well, and that clearly affects the sports teams mentioned in the OP.
That said, as far as people go, I don't know what Northwest Indiana people say when asked where they are from by people who aren't familiar with the area. And I wonder if there's a point where "Desire for Affiliation" fades in light of "Necessity of Affiliation," as it were, when the unfamiliarity passes a certain point.
I never tell people I'm from Detroit, because I'm not. I may say I'm from metro Detroit or from SE Michigan.
I'll use my particular suburb name if people need to know it. In most cases I won't use the suburb name online because people don't need to know it and I don't want my exact location known to any nefarious characters.
Quote from: webny99 on March 28, 2023, 09:16:23 AM
I've heard that in some areas, such as Detroit, people generally refer to the specific suburb they live in, even in contexts when "Detroit" would suffice, possibly because of the city's bad reputation. I'm not entirely sure how true that is, though.
People I've met from the Milwaukee metro have been like this, generally regardless of their social/political beliefs.
I tell people "Minneapolis" because people know what that is. Even when I lived in Elk River 35 miles away I felt was enough in MSP's gravity to get away with it, plys I still associated myself heavily with the metro.
Quote from: kphoger on March 28, 2023, 10:38:01 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on March 28, 2023, 10:31:38 AM
Essentially, what's happening is that "Chicago" can mean the "Northeastern Illinois Area" or the "City of Chicago," and potentially a number of gradations in between.
There does seem to be a hard line, however, at the state line, doesn't there? I could be mistaken, but I think people in Hammond are more likely to say "northwest Indiana", whereas people in Calumet City are more likely to say "Chicago". Same thing for Kenosha.
Definitely the case for NY/NJ/CT as well. I can't imagine anyone from Jersey would ever say they're from NYC. And yet, I'm over five hours away from NYC and people still mistakenly think that me being from NY means I'm from NYC unless I specify "upstate", "Rochester", or both. The worst is when you get a flat, deflated "oh" in response to clarifying what part of NY.
One of the guys I lived with in Park Heights in northwest Baltimore in early 2020 didn't seem to consider it as "the city" (presumably since it's less busy up that way).
I grew up in Los Angeles, pretty much in the center of the city. Not Downtown, but in the main central area kind of near Hancock Park, Hollywood, and West Hollywood. The neighborhoods within the city limits don't have very clear defined borders that are universally accepted, so it's generally easier for those in a local context to just give a major street intersection.
When I worked in El Segundo (one of L.A.'s suburbs to its southwest) and people there asked me where I lived, I said Los Angeles, and they were somewhat dumbfounded. Nearly everybody lived in one of the nearby southwest suburbs like El Segundo, Manhattan Beach, or Torrance so it was kind of unusual to say that you were from the big city. Of course, those same people would say "Los Angeles" to an out of town audience, but it was still surprising that people assumed that nobody lived in L.A. proper. Of course there are over 3 million people in L.A. proper, but many of the neighborhoods, especially San Pedro and neighborhoods in the San Fernando Valley (which is close to half of the city) are better known by their neighborhood and some people are surprised that areas as far away from Downtown like Woodland Hills and Chatsworth are actually within the city.
In the current context, I live in Silver Spring, MD. This is a suburb of Washington DC (and I work in D.C. proper when I go to the office), so in an out-or-town context, especially a work function, I tell people I'm from Washington. I may also mention instead, the MD suburbs of Washington DC to give a little more context. (It seems like many cities that are close to a state line, it is very hard to identify as being from NYC or Chicago if you actually live in NJ or IN as opposed to Mineola or Schaumburg.) While DC is not a state, anyone in the area not within the city limits is certainly in a different state.
Silver Spring itself is a bit amorphous. There is a downtown area near Georgia/Colesville, yet by way of the post office probably most of eastern Montgomery County can be referred to as Silver Spring, even neighborhoods that are close to 20 miles away. So if anyone asks what part, I say that I'm near Wheaton. But Silver Spring is usually good enough if people need a more local context than Washington DC.
It was relatively simple when I lived in the St Louis region. I used to say St Louis to outsiders even when I lived in unincorporated Oakville about five miles south of the St Louis boundary. This was true of most people who lived in St Louis County. I'd only differentiate when talking to someone familiar with the region. Identifying as being from St Louis was less true of those who lived in St Charles County, Jefferson County, or especially Illinois.
It's far more complex in the other couple places I've lived as an adult. When I lived in SE Virginia, I'd usually say SE Virginia because it's been a long time since any one city dominated the region. If they knew the area, I'd say Portsmouth which is a wonderful city mostly despite its reputation. I think people from Norfolk or Virginia Beach would say which city they were from, but that was less true of any other Tidewater city.
I now live in Palm Springs and that's what I use but again it's part of a group of local cities (and not even close to the largest city in the valley even if it's arguably the most well known). Cathedral City residents will probably say Palm Springs when outside the area (even though it has more people than PS), but residents of the upscale communities of Rancho Mirage, Indian Wells, and Palm Desert will usually say their home city. No idea what those in Indio and Coachella might say, but Coachella is also well enough known that I wouldn't be surprised if they identify with that even though Indio is easily the most populous city in the valley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coachella_Valley#Communities_and_population).
The other issue with Palm Springs is its large amount of empty land. (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Palm+Springs,+CA/@33.7758444,-116.5555701,44049m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x80db1ad4ffdbe5b3:0xa1e56987c2ed797c!8m2!3d33.8302961!4d-116.5452921!16zL20vMHIzdHE) Less than 25% of the city's land actually has people or other infrastructure (like the airport). There is a huge amount of empty land that will never have people because it's either prone to flooding as part of a large arroyo/wash or mountains that are mostly protected land. I doubt most residents even know how far out the city's boundaries are beyond the built up area. There is an unbridged mile-long gap through the Whitewater River on both Indian Canyon and Gene Autry between what people think is the city and I-10; the city even extends about a mile north of I-10.
For Boston, I would say that you can say that you are in the "city" if you are in Boston, Cambridge, Brookline, and maybe Somerville or Chelsea. Even many Boston neighborhoods barely count as being in the "city". Places like Newton, Lexington, Winchester, Braintree, etc. are NOT the city.
When I lived in Brampton, I would typically say I was from Toronto when on vacation. Now that I'm in Kitchener which is further away, I'm more likely to say
near Toronto or
an hour west of Toronto. If I'm talking to someone in Ontario, I'll of course say Kitchener since it's a pretty big city.
Quote from: webny99 on March 28, 2023, 12:01:31 PM
And yet, I'm over five hours away from NYC and people still mistakenly think that me being from NY means I'm from NYC unless I specify "upstate", "Rochester", or both. The worst is when you get a flat, deflated "oh" in response to clarifying what part of NY.
I've been on several ski trips in western NY (usually Holiday Valley in Ellicottville). I remember a few times telling people I went skiing in New York and they would give a confused look and ask "there's skiing in New York?". I would have to clarify New York
state, not the city. :-D
Invariably, when I tell someone in Mexico that I'm from Kansas, they reply with Ah, Kansas City!
I've mentioned this before in another thread, but it is so absurd that it bears mentioning here.
It's only about 21 miles between Raleigh and Durham, as the crow flies. Taking the Durham Freeway -to- I-40, then using the Wade Avenue Freeway (and Wade Avenue) -to- Capital Boulevard connects the two downtowns in just under 25 miles. It used to be that the municipalities of Raleigh, Durham and Chapel Hill were quite distinct. Not so anymore.
Durham comprises the entire middle of Durham County from border-to-border (Wake County -to- Orange County). Durham city limits now extend into Wake County (adjacent to Raleigh). Raleigh City limits now extend into Durham County (adjacent to Durham). Durham city limits now extend into Orange County, both in the southwest (adjacent to Chapel Hill) and slightly to the west (adjacent to Eno River State Park). Chapel Hill town limits now extends to east along I-40 in Durham County. And if that weren't enough, Cary town limits now wrap around the eastern, southern and western sides of the town of Morrisville extending southward into Chatham County and *almost* touching Durham County near Triangle Brick headquarters in the Genlee area. Oh, and let's not forget Morrisville, which now sneaks into Durham County next to the NC Volleyball Academy property. If you include zip codes, it gets even worse as the Chapel Hill zip code squeezes up along University Station Road between Durham and Hillsborough, and the Hillsborough zip code wraps around the northwest side of Durham well into Durham County.
Not to mention that this area was split up into two separate MSAs sometime between 1980 and 2000. That means that some Raleigh residents live in the Durham-Chapel Hill MSA; some Durham residents live in the Raleigh-Cary MSA; and some Cary residents live in the Durham-Chapel Hill MSA.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 28, 2023, 02:52:43 PM
I've mentioned this before in another thread, but it is so absurd that it bears mentioning here.
It's only about 21 miles between Raleigh and Durham, as the crow flies. Taking the Durham Freeway -to- I-40, then using the Wade Avenue Freeway (and Wade Avenue) -to- Capital Boulevard connects the two downtowns in just under 25 miles. It used to be that the municipalities of Raleigh, Durham and Chapel Hill were quite distinct. Not so anymore.
Durham comprises the entire middle of Durham County from border-to-border (Wake County -to- Orange County). Durham city limits now extend into Wake County (adjacent to Raleigh). Raleigh City limits now extend into Durham County (adjacent to Durham). Durham city limits now extend into Orange County, both in the southwest (adjacent to Chapel Hill) and slightly to the west (adjacent to Eno River State Park). Chapel Hill town limits now extends to east along I-40 in Durham County. And if that weren't enough, Cary town limits now wrap around the eastern, southern and western sides of the town of Morrisville extending southward into Chatham County and *almost* touching Durham County near Triangle Brick headquarters in the Genlee area. Oh, and let's not forget Morrisville, which now sneaks into Durham County next to the NC Volleyball Academy property. If you include zip codes, it gets even worse as the Chapel Hill zip code squeezes up along University Station Road between Durham and Hillsborough, and the Hillsborough zip code wraps around the northwest side of Durham well into Durham County.
Not to mention that this area was split up into two separate MSAs sometime between 1980 and 2000. That means that some Raleigh residents live in the Durham-Chapel Hill MSA; some Durham residents live in the Raleigh-Cary MSA; and some Cary residents live in the Durham-Chapel Hill MSA.
I feel like the whole triangle area should be one MSA.
Quote from: webny99 on March 28, 2023, 12:01:31 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 28, 2023, 10:38:01 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on March 28, 2023, 10:31:38 AM
Essentially, what's happening is that "Chicago" can mean the "Northeastern Illinois Area" or the "City of Chicago," and potentially a number of gradations in between.
There does seem to be a hard line, however, at the state line, doesn't there? I could be mistaken, but I think people in Hammond are more likely to say "northwest Indiana", whereas people in Calumet City are more likely to say "Chicago". Same thing for Kenosha.
Definitely the case for NY/NJ/CT as well. I can't imagine anyone from Jersey would ever say they're from NYC. And yet, I'm over five hours away from NYC and people still mistakenly think that me being from NY means I'm from NYC unless I specify "upstate", "Rochester", or both. The worst is when you get a flat, deflated "oh" in response to clarifying what part of NY.
I definitely see a lot of people on social media with "NJ/NY" in their bio. Most of the time those people live in northern New Jersey, and the other people oftentimes grew up in one and now live in the other.
I believe for a large amount of places, especially in places outside of the Northeast where everyone isn't incorporated, it can be a little bit ambiguous. For example, Charlotte, NC is a large city, and has about 900,000 people residing within city limits. However, there is also a good amount of people who do not live in city limits, but their postal address's last line is "Charlotte, NC 282xx".
On the opposite hand, we have North Myrtle Beach, SC. They have incorporated past 29582 (North Myrtle Beach), and into 29566 (Little River) and 29568 (Longs). The USPS does not allow North Myrtle Beach to be substituted for Little River nor Longs as an acceptable city name for their respective zip codes.
Quote from: GaryV on March 28, 2023, 10:51:40 AM
I never tell people I'm from Detroit, because I'm not. I may say I'm from metro Detroit or from SE Michigan.
I'll use my particular suburb name if people need to know it. In most cases I won't use the suburb name online because people don't need to know it and I don't want my exact location known to any nefarious characters.
This is interesting. As I mentioned upthread, I still say I'm "from Rochester" even though I don't technically live in the city.
This leads me to wonder if the negative connotation of Detroit is a factor here. Detroit definitely has one of the largest variances between reputation of the city and its suburbs, but plenty of other cities are pretty stark too (including Rochester, but it's not as well-known).
If the tallest building near you is the Hampton Inn, you're not "in the city" yet.
If there are not any random stickers on street signs, you're not "in the city" yet.
If there's plenty of on street parking available, you're not "in the city" yet.
If there are more "don't tread on me" bumper stickers than "coexist" bumper stickers, you're not "in the city" yet.
If there are more churches than bars, you're not "in the city" yet.
If there isn't a slight scent of urine and weed in the air, you're not "in the city" yet.
If the closest hardware store is Home Depot, you're not "in the city" yet.
If the drive thru queue is longer than the in-person queue at the coffee shop in the morning, you're not "in the city" yet.
:P
Quote from: webny99 on March 28, 2023, 06:21:21 PM
Quote from: GaryV on March 28, 2023, 10:51:40 AM
I never tell people I'm from Detroit, because I'm not. I may say I'm from metro Detroit or from SE Michigan.
I'll use my particular suburb name if people need to know it. In most cases I won't use the suburb name online because people don't need to know it and I don't want my exact location known to any nefarious characters.
This is interesting. As I mentioned upthread, I still say I'm "from Rochester" even though I don't technically live in the city.
This leads me to wonder if the negative connotation of Detroit is a factor here. Detroit definitely has one of the largest variances between reputation of the city and its suburbs, but plenty of other cities are pretty stark too (including Rochester, but it's not as well-known).
See, I always did the opposite when Michigan comes up in conversation. I was actually born in the city of Detroit and lived there for a short while. While my family did live far longer in the suburbs I found it easier to say "I'm from Detroit" than having to explain with Canton and West Bloomfield are.
All the same, if someone asks me where I'm from I usually say Phoenix. My rational there is that is is the city I lived the longest overall. Plus, it does get annoying when I mention Detroit and someone says "is 8 Mile bad?"
Quote from: chrisdiaz on March 28, 2023, 03:15:13 PM
I believe for a large amount of places, especially in places outside of the Northeast where everyone isn't incorporated, it can be a little bit ambiguous. For example, Charlotte, NC is a large city, and has about 900,000 people residing within city limits. However, there is also a good amount of people who do not live in city limits, but their postal address's last line is "Charlotte, NC 282xx".
This used to be true for Richmond, Virginia as well, where the addresses were Zip Code 232XX. But there seems to be a trend for those suburbs to disconnect from the city, with newer addresses such as: North Chesterfield 23224; Staples Mill 23238; Tuckahoe 23229; Montrose Heights 23231; and even more for North Chesterfield 23234-235-236-237. Forest Hill (23225), which has been inside the city limits for many decades, had always kept its own zip code identity, but this trend makes it stand out less so.
DFW is so massive that going E-W, you can get off at Exit 94 and still be 94 miles from the zero point of I-30 at Aledo, which isn't even on the western extreme of the Metroplex. Some take it as far west as Mineral Wells.
Going N-S, some consider just crossing over from Oklahoma from 75 miles away to be entering DFW. Not so much yet, but it is heading in that direction. Ellis County is finally wising up to that fact that you can have a cheap house and a 20-minute commute to downtown Dallas.
I live outside of Boston, definitely not part of the City proper. Yet when I travel and tell people where I'm from, I always say Boston. Closer to home, I say my hometown or just outside of Boston. These kinds of distinctions matter locally.
Quote from: kphoger on March 28, 2023, 10:15:21 AM
Quote from: webny99 on March 28, 2023, 09:16:23 AM
Even so, when telling someone outside the area where I'm from, I would say Rochester, and expect it to be understood that I mean the Rochester area and not necessarily the city itself. However, if someone from the Rochester area asked me where I live, I'd be more specific, with reference to the suburb, and possibly even the main road(s) nearest my neighborhood, depending on the context.
This.
Before the 4th grade, I grew up in New Lenox, IL. Back then, I could go two miles south and hit farmland and gravel roads. When we were on family vacation somewhere, and I was in the hotel hot tub or whatever, I'd tell people I was from Chicago. But that isn't quite the same thing. If you had asked me if I lived in a city or a small town, I'd have told you I lived in a suburb.
When we then moved to a small farming town in a county with no stoplights, we might describe the difference between living "in the city" and living "in a small town". Different context, different vocabulary.
Fast-forward ten years, and I was attending college near Harlem & Division in River Forest (IL), with an L station a mile away. Even in an urban environment like that, going downtown could be called "going into the city".
Now I live well within the Wichita city limits. In pretty much all contexts, I say I live in a city–although I might, on extremely rare occasions, mention my part of town as a "suburban neighborhood".
To tack onto this...I grew up inside the city limits of Goldsby, OK, a town that at the time was so small the biggest retail establishment was a Total station. So any time we went to Norman to buy groceries at the Walmart there, we'd say we're "going into town".
Now I live in Norman. Any time we need to go to Oklahoma City for something, we say we're "going up to the city".
It's all relative.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 28, 2023, 06:23:05 PM
If the tallest building near you is the Hampton Inn, you're not "in the city" yet.
If there are not any random stickers on street signs, you're not "in the city" yet.
If there's plenty of on street parking available, you're not "in the city" yet.
If there are more "don't tread on me" bumper stickers than "coexist" bumper stickers, you're not "in the city" yet.
If there are more churches than bars, you're not "in the city" yet.
If there isn't a slight scent of urine and weed in the air, you're not "in the city" yet.
If the closest hardware store is Home Depot, you're not "in the city" yet.
If the drive thru queue is longer than the in-person queue at the coffee shop in the morning, you're not "in the city" yet.
:P
Excellent! Almost poetry.
Quote from: bing101 on March 28, 2023, 10:44:39 AM
"In the City" where I am from in NorCal historically meant being in San Francisco Proper. But that changed since San Jose overtook San Francisco as largest city in NorCal. Now that's been changed to San Francisco being nicknamed as SF ever since.
From what I have seen over the years, "The City" always refers to San Francisco here in the Bay Area, never any other locale. that doesn't mean that Oakland and SJ aren't seen as major cities either, just that SF is the one that likes to emphasize being called "The City" (as seen by some of the jersey designs for the Warriors).
---
I've lived in suburban San Mateo County for 2/3rds of my life, Davis for school for 4 years, and Sacramento for 7 years:
- I rarely ever say "I'm from San Francisco" (though I was born there and went to a couple of schools there) and try to be specific about being in the suburbs, due to the culture of SF residents/natives being hyper-specific that living near SF is not the same as living within city limits. Something like the San Francisco Outlets in Livermore, about 45 miles east, is absurd in that context
- SF itself has some neighborhoods that are much more suburban in nature than the rest of the city (the area near Stonestown Mall and the Sunset District in particular), with the Outer Mission almost seamlessly blending into the northern part of Daly City. The Visitacion Valley district also blends into Daly City's Bayshore district (itself formerly a separate community) and is particularly low-rise.
- Sacramento takes up twice the land area that SF does; I lived in Midtown for about 6 months and then in a suburban area close to Sacramento State University for 6 years, and always made the distinction of where I was when describing my location at the time.
Quote from: TheStranger on March 29, 2023, 11:10:05 AM
Quote from: bing101 on March 28, 2023, 10:44:39 AM
"In the City" where I am from in NorCal historically meant being in San Francisco Proper. But that changed since San Jose overtook San Francisco as largest city in NorCal. Now that's been changed to San Francisco being nicknamed as SF ever since.
From what I have seen over the years, "The City" always refers to San Francisco here in the Bay Area, never any other locale. that doesn't mean that Oakland and SJ aren't seen as major cities either, just that SF is the one that likes to emphasize being called "The City" (as seen by some of the jersey designs for the Warriors).
---
I've lived in suburban San Mateo County for 2/3rds of my life, Davis for school for 4 years, and Sacramento for 7 years:
- I rarely ever say "I'm from San Francisco" (though I was born there and went to a couple of schools there) and try to be specific about being in the suburbs, due to the culture of SF residents/natives being hyper-specific that living near SF is not the same as living within city limits. Something like the San Francisco Outlets in Livermore, about 45 miles east, is absurd in that context
- SF itself has some neighborhoods that are much more suburban in nature than the rest of the city (the area near Stonestown Mall and the Sunset District in particular), with the Outer Mission almost seamlessly blending into the northern part of Daly City. The Visitacion Valley district also blends into Daly City's Bayshore district (itself formerly a separate community) and is particularly low-rise.
- Sacramento takes up twice the land area that SF does; I lived in Midtown for about 6 months and then in a suburban area close to Sacramento State University for 6 years, and always made the distinction of where I was when describing my location at the time.
Also I seen a shift in the definitions of Silicon Valley. In the past it meant being in areas south of the San Mateo Bridge up to the south end of CA-85 at US-101. But San Francisco got included in the name of Silicon Valley due to Soma and the Financial District where Venture Capitalists companies have their main offices at.
https://www.dailyrepublic.com/all-dr-news/solano-news/solano-county/fairfield-suisun-sits-between-bay-valley/
The definitions over what constitute the San Francisco Bay Area and Sacramento takes a transitional meaning once you enter places like Solano County, a given how attached to both the County is.
I sought assistance from these guys but no help...
The city limits of Baton Rouge are far more expansive than what could be considered the 'urban core'. In fact, all of the urbanized southern portion of EBR Parish is considered 'Baton Rouge' from a postal standpoint regardless of location inside or outside actual city limits. Like many medium sized Southern cities that mostly expanded in the 20th century, there is a low gradient of density from urban center to suburb. However, the neighborhoods that developed before roughly 1950 could reasonably be referred to as urban, though composed of single family housing to a much greater extent than in traditional urban centers.
Seattle proper includes a lot of suburban neighborhoods that bleed into the neighboring cities, so I would narrow it down to people who live in areas that are denser than the baseline. For Seattle, that's pretty much urban villages and their surrounding bubbles.