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I-83 in Baltimore

Started by AcE_Wolf_287, March 22, 2020, 02:28:59 PM

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Henry

Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 22, 2020, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 22, 2020, 02:28:59 PMI-83 ends at Surface streets, and i was wondering was it supposed to end at I-95 or I-70, or was I-70 and I-83 supposed to end at the same location? i dont see where I-83 couldn't be built to I-95
It was supposed to turn east, and through the Canton area of Baltimore City and tie in to I-95 north of the Fort McHenry Tunnel toll plaza.

The remnants of the ramps that were partially built on I-95 could still be seen the last time I checked.
Furthermore, the only time that I-70 and I-83 were proposed to meet each other was in a 1960 city freeway plan, when they also ended at I-95 on the southeastern edge of the CBD. The 10-D plan of 1962 ended the I-70/I-83 connection permanently, and the 3-A plan of 1969 spaced them even further apart to where their respective ghost ramps on I-95 are. I-83 sure as hell won't be built to I-95 anytime soon, what with new urban development completely blocking its way.

Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 22, 2020, 09:33:57 PMand also by where I-70 is, wasn't that also the location of where I-70 was supposed to end at ?
If you're talking about the Park & Ride, I-70 was never going to end there. In fact, before opposition killed it, there was an eastern extension (actually, more southeastern) through Leakin and Gwynns Falls Parks that would lead to I-95 at the ghost ramps southwest of downtown. I-170 was going to meet I-70 near the railroad tracks, but it never got any further than US 1.
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epzik8

Quote from: Henry on May 14, 2024, 10:14:11 PMIf you're talking about the Park & Ride, I-70 was never going to end there. In fact, before opposition killed it, there was an eastern extension (actually, more southeastern) through Leakin and Gwynns Falls Parks that would lead to I-95 at the ghost ramps southwest of downtown. I-170 was going to meet I-70 near the railroad tracks, but it never got any further than US 1.

It's an oddity I love though, a near-cross-country highway ending in a parking lot.
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ixnay

Quote from: epzik8 on May 19, 2024, 09:04:11 AM
Quote from: Henry on May 14, 2024, 10:14:11 PMIf you're talking about the Park & Ride, I-70 was never going to end there. In fact, before opposition killed it, there was an eastern extension (actually, more southeastern) through Leakin and Gwynns Falls Parks that would lead to I-95 at the ghost ramps southwest of downtown. I-170 was going to meet I-70 near the railroad tracks, but it never got any further than US 1.

It's an oddity I love though, a near-cross-country highway ending in a parking lot.

And for more on the different routings for I-70 into Baltimore, I recommend Earl Swift's The Big Roads.

The Ghostbuster

There have been plans to demolish the southernmost portion of the Jones Falls Expressway, as stated in this 2009 Baltimore Sun article: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2009-05-17/business/0905160106_1_elevated-expressway-jones-falls-expressway-east-side. Obviously, nothing has become of those proposals. Also, in the early 90s, there was a proposal to extend Interstate 83 along the US 29 corridor to Greensboro, NC. However, that was as likely to be constructed as any proposal to extend 83 north of Harrisburg.

epzik8

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 25, 2024, 01:41:08 PMThere have been plans to demolish the southernmost portion of the Jones Falls Expressway, as stated in this 2009 Baltimore Sun article: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2009-05-17/business/0905160106_1_elevated-expressway-jones-falls-expressway-east-side. Obviously, nothing has become of those proposals. Also, in the early 90s, there was a proposal to extend Interstate 83 along the US 29 corridor to Greensboro, NC. However, that was as likely to be constructed as any proposal to extend 83 north of Harrisburg.

The Greensboro extension sounds so unhinged.
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froggie

The only location I saw that proposed an I-83 extension south to North Carolina was a roadgeek website.  There was never anything official or even semi-official suggested in Virginia.

If there WAS such a proposal, it would be nice for Ghostbuster to provide a source.

The Ghostbuster

My source was Interstate 83's Wikipedia webpage. The 22nd footnote referenced an article from Greensboro's News and Record newspaper from June 8th, 1991 titled "New Interstates Likely Impossible Dream": https://greensboro.com/new-interstates-likely-impossible-dream/article_00684f87-9e3b-52bb-aeb2-2188020c415a.html. That's probably the only story on the subject, save for the roadgeek's website: http://www.freehomepage.com/i-83ext/interstate83.html.

froggie

Reding that Greensboro article, looks like it was mainly local Chambers of Commerce (primarily Lynchburg) that were pushing the I-83 extension and nobody actually involved in transportation planning.

Alps

Quote from: froggie on May 26, 2024, 01:56:10 PMReding that Greensboro article, looks like it was mainly local Chambers of Commerce (primarily Lynchburg) that were pushing the I-83 extension and nobody actually involved in transportation planning.
I gotta say, though, not such a terrible idea to build a new freeway along US 29 vs. widening I-81 by a full carriageway in each direction through VA.

sprjus4

#34
Quote from: Alps on May 28, 2024, 07:38:40 PM
Quote from: froggie on May 26, 2024, 01:56:10 PMReding that Greensboro article, looks like it was mainly local Chambers of Commerce (primarily Lynchburg) that were pushing the I-83 extension and nobody actually involved in transportation planning.
I gotta say, though, not such a terrible idea to build a new freeway along US 29 vs. widening I-81 by a full carriageway in each direction through VA.
It's not a bad idea on paper, unfortunately Virginia is not as much in the freeway building game as North Carolina, for example, has been.

They can't even get a proper bypass around Charlottesville, let alone the entire highway in the state.

The easiest part in my opinion would be Danville to Amherst (north of Lynchburg). The Danville and Madison Heights bypasses are of decent length and meet interstate standards; Chatham, Gretna, and Altavista have freeway bypasses that could be upgraded relatively easily. The biggest hole would be constructing a new 20 or so mile freeway on new location between Altavista and Madison Heights bypasses, then relatively short upgrades in between the Altavista, Chatham, Gretna, and Danville bypasses.

I use the word "easiest" in the sense that you could have multiple shorter length (5-10 mile) projects that complete piece by piece, as opposed to north of Amherst where you have 30-40+ mile stretches between existing freeway segments where long new location segments, or extensive upgrades would be needed.

Given any major upgrade to US-29 is likely never going to happen unfortunately, I wish VDOT would at least focus on making the entire corridor a free-flowing route. Replacing traffic signals with interchanges, innovative intersections, etc. Additionally, a freeway connection between the Altavista and Madison Heights bypasses, and a bypass around Charlottesville would be needed at minimum for new location portions, plus a freeway connection from Warrenton to I-66. The existing 60 mph free-flowing portions throughout the state in the rural areas would stay mostly the same with potential curve improvements, shoulder widening, etc.

Henry

The most glaring error in that article is the labeling of I-26 as "I-23", and it also has I-73 going through Winston-Salem, with no mention of I-74 at all. My guess is that the current routings of I-73 and I-74 within the state came very shortly after it was published, given that it occurred on 6/8/91.
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