New York State Thruway

[cl94]

Thruway has reopened east of Exit 53. West of there could get another 1-3 feet of snow in the next day and a half. All other area expressways, excluding west of Exit 53, the NY 400 ramps to the Thruway, and all of US 219's limited-access section have reopened as well, with travel advisories lifted north of Orchard Park/Hamburg.

[route17fan]

WOW! For the season so far, Buffalo would potentially have over 10 feet of snow?!?! Incredible!

[cl94]

WOW! For the season so far, Buffalo would potentially have over 10 feet of snow?!?! Incredible!

Except they measure it at the airport. I flew out of there this morning and skies were clear. Snow was about 3 miles south, November storm was a mile south.

[MikeSantNY78]

WOW! For the season so far, Buffalo would potentially have over 10 feet of snow?!?! Incredible!

Except they measure it at the airport. I flew out of there this morning and skies were clear. Snow was about 3 miles south, November storm was a mile south.

Break line (of the November storm) seemed to be between Rehm Rd. and PleasantView Rd., on the north side of Depew, leading to Hillview Elementary on the north end.  North of Rehm, there was practically nothing - a foot at best. South of that (where I live), we got pummeled...

[route17fan]

Oh that's right - I forgot the snow was more south.

[Buffaboy]

Wgrz reports that Thruway project construction in the Buffalo area (Cleveland Dr bridge, G.I. Bridge, EZPass lane) is imminent. Also mentioned is the realignment of the Cleveland Drive WB ramp and the addition of an auxiliary lane from the 290 to the 33. Putting 2+2 together I think that means the DOT wants to make the 90 a 5 lane highway. What do you think?

[xcellntbuy]

Certainly does look like a widening and it is undoubtedly needed.

The Thruway needs expansion in many areas of the State.  Areas I have always been familiar with and in great need for 6 lanes run from Albany at Exit 23 south to Exit 16 at the Woodbury toll barrier and 8 lanes from Exit 16 all the way to the New York city line,  flyovers for Exit B1 for a cleaner connection for Interstate 90 would be another plus.

The cost?  Billions.  Does New York have the money?  No.  There is some very expensive landowners that would undoubtedly have to be compensated.  It would also take many years.  The arduous debates over a new Tappan Zee Bridge and the socialist mentality of what is the most dysfunctional state government in the Union serve as an enormous drag on New York's economy and decision-making.

Tolls would have to increase dramatically or would have to be reimposed in areas (Exit 15, Spring Valley and Ardsley barriers) long since removed from the old barrier and ticket system when I was much younger.  Nonetheless, the rise of electronic tolling options could allow greater ease to collect tolls from more points on the system, which I believe New York has not taken advantage of doing.

[vdeane]

Tolls are still collected both directions at the Yonkers barrier.  Not sure what you mean by Ardsley barrier.  There's much less toll-free travel allowed between the Yonkers barrier and the Tappan Zee than it would appear at first glance.  The Ardsley exit is a half diamond feeding into the Yonkers barrier, and the Saw Mill, I-287, and US 9 interchanges are right on top of the Tappan Zee.  The entire toll gap could be closed by making the Tappan Zee barrier two-way and adding ramp tolls to/from the south on the Saw Mill and to/from the north at US 9.  Closing the Nyack toll gap would be more work and probably not a good idea.

[xcellntbuy]

Tolls are still collected both directions at the Yonkers barrier.  Not sure what you mean by Ardsley barrier.  There's much less toll-free travel allowed between the Yonkers barrier and the Tappan Zee than it would appear at first glance.  The Ardsley exit is a half diamond feeding into the Yonkers barrier, and the Saw Mill, I-287, and US 9 interchanges are right on top of the Tappan Zee.  The entire toll gap could be closed by making the Tappan Zee barrier two-way and adding ramp tolls to/from the south on the Saw Mill and to/from the north at US 9.  Closing the Nyack toll gap would be more work and probably not a good idea.

You are correct, Yonkers barrier.  Its been a very long time since I have been on the Thruway between Exit 8 and the Yonkers-New York City line.

[cl94]

The Exit 15 barrier was removed when the end of the ticket system was moved to Exit 16. Spring Valley tolls for cars were eliminated in 1997, likely because the other river crossings do not charge for WB travel.

[NJRoadfan]

The Spring Valley barrier is far enough west that it really doesn't qualify as a river crossing.

[Buffaboy]

Certainly does look like a widening and it is undoubtedly needed.

The Thruway needs expansion in many areas of the State.  Areas I have always been familiar with and in great need for 6 lanes run from Albany at Exit 23 south to Exit 16 at the Woodbury toll barrier and 8 lanes from Exit 16 all the way to the New York city line,  flyovers for Exit B1 for a cleaner connection for Interstate 90 would be another plus.

The cost?  Billions.  Does New York have the money?  No.  There is some very expensive landowners that would undoubtedly have to be compensated.  It would also take many years.  The arduous debates over a new Tappan Zee Bridge and the socialist mentality of what is the most dysfunctional state government in the Union serve as an enormous drag on New York's economy and decision-making.

Tolls would have to increase dramatically or would have to be reimposed in areas (Exit 15, Spring Valley and Ardsley barriers) long since removed from the old barrier and ticket system when I was much younger.  Nonetheless, the rise of electronic tolling options could allow greater ease to collect tolls from more points on the system, which I believe New York has not taken advantage of doing.

I agree, I feel AET hasn't been taken advantage of by many states as of now. That should change though.

[Zeffy]

I agree, I feel AET hasn't been taken advantage of by many states as of now. That should change though.

I might be entirely wrong on this, but I thought Florida's tolled highways (except Florida's Turnpike?) use AET. Maryland has the Intercounty Connector / MD 200 which uses it as well. The problem is how do you convert roadways that relied on toll booths from their trumpets into normal interchanges? It costs a lot of money to do so. I cannot imagine how much money it would take the NYSTA to convert the Thruway into AET.

[cl94]

I agree, I feel AET hasn't been taken advantage of by many states as of now. That should change though.

I might be entirely wrong on this, but I thought Florida's tolled highways (except Florida's Turnpike?) use AET. Maryland has the Intercounty Connector / MD 200 which uses it as well. The problem is how do you convert roadways that relied on toll booths from their trumpets into normal interchanges? It costs a lot of money to do so. I cannot imagine how much money it would take the NYSTA to convert the Thruway into AET.

Hence why they're doing the barrier tolls first. Most of the trumpets can stay as trumpets, even with AET, because they're fine as they are and/or there's a lot of development right up to the ROW. Heck, the only exits I'd say "rebuild soon" to are 21, 24, 29, 31, 34A-39 (excluding 35), 46, and 49. Half are freeway-freeway and all but two of the rest are in a relatively dense suburban area. 23 should be moved 1/3 mile south to connect to the current NY 23 and 29 is on the list because geometry sucks, but that could be fixed by realigning the ramps through a dirt lot directly to NY 5S or building a diamond/partial cloverleaf 3/4 mile west.

[froggie]

23 should be moved 1/3 mile south to connect to the current NY 23

Topography would likely prevent this, given the close proximity of Catskill Creek and the resulting steep drop-off on the south side of 23.  The steep hill on the east side of the Thruway and north side of 23 also prevents a direct connection.

[1995hoo]

I agree, I feel AET hasn't been taken advantage of by many states as of now. That should change though.

I might be entirely wrong on this, but I thought Florida's tolled highways (except Florida's Turnpike?) use AET. Maryland has the Intercounty Connector / MD 200 which uses it as well. The problem is how do you convert roadways that relied on toll booths from their trumpets into normal interchanges? It costs a lot of money to do so. I cannot imagine how much money it would take the NYSTA to convert the Thruway into AET.

You put off the interchange reconfiguration indefinitely because it's not really needed just for the sake of electronic tolling. The interchange will work as a trumpet. Perhaps other designs might be more efficient, but the trumpet will still work.

Regarding Florida, broadly speaking, the cashless roads are concentrated in the Miami area with a few exceptions (such as the elevated express roadway on the Selmon Expressway in the Tampa area). I think Texas has a few cashless toll roads as well–Route 130 is cashless, if I'm not mistaken.

[Buffaboy]

I agree, I feel AET hasn't been taken advantage of by many states as of now. That should change though.

I might be entirely wrong on this, but I thought Florida's tolled highways (except Florida's Turnpike?) use AET. Maryland has the Intercounty Connector / MD 200 which uses it as well. The problem is how do you convert roadways that relied on toll booths from their trumpets into normal interchanges? It costs a lot of money to do so. I cannot imagine how much money it would take the NYSTA to convert the Thruway into AET.

Hence why they're doing the barrier tolls first. Most of the trumpets can stay as trumpets, even with AET, because they're fine as they are and/or there's a lot of development right up to the ROW. Heck, the only exits I'd say "rebuild soon" to are 21, 24, 29, 31, 34A-39 (excluding 35), 46, and 49. Half are freeway-freeway and all but two of the rest are in a relatively dense suburban area. 23 should be moved 1/3 mile south to connect to the current NY 23 and 29 is on the list because geometry sucks, but that could be fixed by realigning the ramps through a dirt lot directly to NY 5S or building a diamond/partial cloverleaf 3/4 mile west.

You bring up an excellent point regarding Exit 31. What other exit on the Thruway, or any other Interstate for that matter, brings you to a side street to get on an auxilliary Interstate? In addition I think for the width of the city of Utica, there aren't enough Thruway access points like in the other Thruway cities.

If this was a post in the Fantasy forum, what I would do is keep the trumpet but make I-790 into a Y-split with it being parallel to I-90 and connect it to NY 5s by crossing southeast over the Mohawk River, Erie Canal and Sewage Plant Road. Then:

• from 31 EB, make a flyover ramp to I-790 WB after the toll barrier at the bridge over Genesee St. Then add a u-turn on that same ramp to I-790 EB ramp to NY 5s
• from 31 WB, it would follow the same path
• Since there isn't enough room for an I-790/NY 5s WB interchange with I-90, an access road can be constructed to Bleeker St., 1-2 miles east of current Exit 31 that intersects NY 5s and I-90 (a new exit 31a/whatever mile post it would be), and crosses Mohawk River/Erie Canal.

I got bored and made diagrams. Red represents deleted ramps, blue represents current ramps, orange represents new or reconfigured construction, and green represents Bleecker St, Culver Ave., Dwyer Ave. and Pitcher St.





Believe it or not, the same split that NY 49 has a couple miles west of these pictures is similar to the one I envisioned.

Just an idea.

[odditude]

You bring up an excellent point regarding Exit 31. What other exit on the Thruway, or any other Interstate for that matter, brings you to a side street to get on an auxilliary Interstate?

I-95 to I-676 WB comes to mind. A few of the connections between I-95 and I-76 use surface roads as well (I can't remember which ones exactly off the top of my head).

[02 Park Ave]

Regarding Exit 23, an elevated roadway, built above the Thruway itself, could be used to make a direct connexion with Route 23.

[Buffaboy]

You bring up an excellent point regarding Exit 31. What other exit on the Thruway, or any other Interstate for that matter, brings you to a side street to get on an auxilliary Interstate?

I-95 to I-676 WB comes to mind. A few of the connections between I-95 and I-76 use surface roads as well (I can't remember which ones exactly off the top of my head).

Well I really meant a child auxiliary Interstate, but yes the Philly ones are interesting surface st. connections

[1995hoo]

You bring up an excellent point regarding Exit 31. What other exit on the Thruway, or any other Interstate for that matter, brings you to a side street to get on an auxilliary Interstate?

I-95 to I-676 WB comes to mind. A few of the connections between I-95 and I-76 use surface roads as well (I can't remember which ones exactly off the top of my head).

I seem to recall for a long time you had to use a street with a traffic light to go from I-76 to I-176, though it's been corrected.

[Alps]

You bring up an excellent point regarding Exit 31. What other exit on the Thruway, or any other Interstate for that matter, brings you to a side street to get on an auxilliary Interstate?

I-95 to I-676 WB comes to mind. A few of the connections between I-95 and I-76 use surface roads as well (I can't remember which ones exactly off the top of my head).

Well I really meant a child auxiliary Interstate, but yes the Philly ones are interesting surface st. connections

Plenty of times if you're going the "wrong" direction. I-95 SB to I-395 NB (and the reverse) in CT is one that I imagine has some associated demand. I-295 SB to I-95 NB in RI probably has somewhat less demand. I-80/I-280 in NJ is another of so many examples.

[empirestate]

Regarding Exit 23, an elevated roadway, built above the Thruway itself, could be used to make a direct connexion with Route 23.

Would have to be a really long one!

[cl94]

Regarding Exit 23, an elevated roadway, built above the Thruway itself, could be used to make a direct connexion with Route 23.

Would have to be a really long one!

I'm hoping they meant Exit 21. Honestly, Exit 21 is the only one I mentioned that might not need a rebuild just due to expense. The terrain certainly isn't forgiving. You'd basically have to replace the trumpet with a modified diamond similar to I-88's Exit 25 to avoid building through Home Depot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that exit gets much in the way of traffic bound for NY 23.

[02 Park Ave]

Please excuse my typo.  I was referring to Exit 21!