New York State Thruway

[Buffaboy]

Sorry for my ignorance, I thought NYSTA was taxpayer funded.

[vdeane]

I'm pretty sure NYSTA is funded entirely through toll dollars... some of which go to NYSDOT and the canal, on top of Thruway needs.

Correct. That's why the trucker's union is suing NYSTA. Personally, I think that the canal should be NYSDOT and taxpayer-supported (if not NYSTA as well), but they don't ask my opinion.

I think it's funny that they're suing NYSTA when the PTC is a much worse offender.

Given the canal's recreational purpose, it would probably be best off with the Office of Parks and Recreation.  It's worth noting, though, that NYSDOT had the canal prior to the Thruway taking over.

[cl94]

I'm pretty sure NYSTA is funded entirely through toll dollars... some of which go to NYSDOT and the canal, on top of Thruway needs.

Correct. That's why the trucker's union is suing NYSTA. Personally, I think that the canal should be NYSDOT and taxpayer-supported (if not NYSTA as well), but they don't ask my opinion.

I think it's funny that they're suing NYSTA when the PTC is a much worse offender.

Given the canal's recreational purpose, it would probably be best off with the Office of Parks and Recreation.  It's worth noting, though, that NYSDOT had the canal prior to the Thruway taking over.

PTC funds at least go to maintaining highways. The canals thing is a different story entirely- toll dollars going to maintain recreational waterways. Certainly needs to be maintained, but not at the expense of much-needed Thruway funds, especially now that every bridge needs a replacement.

[cpzilliacus]

I'm pretty sure NYSTA is funded entirely through toll dollars... some of which go to NYSDOT and the canal, on top of Thruway needs.

Correct. That's why the trucker's union is suing NYSTA. Personally, I think that the canal should be NYSDOT and taxpayer-supported (if not NYSTA as well), but they don't ask my opinion.

I think it's funny that they're suing NYSTA when the PTC is a much worse offender.

Given the canal's recreational purpose, it would probably be best off with the Office of Parks and Recreation.  It's worth noting, though, that NYSDOT had the canal prior to the Thruway taking over.

PTC funds at least go to maintaining highways.

Not since Act 44 (2007) and then Act 89 (2013) were passed by the Pennsylvania legislature.

Details here.

Relevant part, with emphasis added:

Act 89 substantially altered the Commission's funding obligations to PennDOT. While the Commission's payment obligation remains at $450 million annually through Fiscal Year 2022, none of the payments are dedicated to highways and bridges. Instead, all $450 million is allocated to support transit capital, operating, multi-modal and other non-highway programs.

The canals thing is a different story entirely- toll dollars going to maintain recreational waterways. Certainly needs to be maintained, but not at the expense of much-needed Thruway funds, especially now that every bridge needs a replacement.

I respectfully disagree.  The canals have more in common with the Thruway (at least the main canal runs roughly parallel to the I-90 part) than paying SEPTA and Port Authority of Allegheny County employees, which have absolutely nothing to do with the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

[Rothman]

I'm pretty sure NYSTA is funded entirely through toll dollars... some of which go to NYSDOT and the canal, on top of Thruway needs.

Correct. That's why the trucker's union is suing NYSTA. Personally, I think that the canal should be NYSDOT and taxpayer-supported (if not NYSTA as well), but they don't ask my opinion.

I think it's funny that they're suing NYSTA when the PTC is a much worse offender.

Given the canal's recreational purpose, it would probably be best off with the Office of Parks and Recreation.  It's worth noting, though, that NYSDOT had the canal prior to the Thruway taking over.

NYSDOT's Policy Bureau some years back (say, eight or so) was actually touting the growth of freight use of the canal. 

I think they were laughed out of the room.   

[cpzilliacus]

NYSDOT's Policy Bureau some years back (say, eight or so) was actually touting the growth of freight use of the canal. 

I think they were laughed out of the room.   

I have not seen freight on that canal myself (but I am seldom in that part of the world), and the last time I was near it was in Utica before the "canal season" started.

My impression is that it could be useful for some sorts of freight, but that is in theory only. 

[cl94]

NYSDOT's Policy Bureau some years back (say, eight or so) was actually touting the growth of freight use of the canal. 

I think they were laughed out of the room.   

I have not seen freight on that canal myself (but I am seldom in that part of the world), and the last time I was near it was in Utica before the "canal season" started.

My impression is that it could be useful for some sorts of freight, but that is in theory only.

There's the occasional barge that goes to North Tonawanda from Lake Erie that passes through the Black Rock lock. International RR Bridge swing span is also open quite often. As most small craft bypass the lock entirely by going down the main channel, it implies that there's at least some moderately-sized stuff passing through the westernmost few miles.

Remember that the canal system also includes the Champlain Canal and the canals linking Lake Ontario to the Finger Lakes. There's a decent amount of barge traffic up the Champlain Canal to Fort Edward, especially with the dredging going on (which all of the locals hate because the water is worse now than it was when everything was at the bottom).

[Buffaboy]

I read somewhere that it's actually called the Barge Canal in Utica and that it was (or is) at times more useful than the Thruway because of the freight sizes it can handle.

[cl94]

I read somewhere that it's actually called the Barge Canal in Utica and that it was (or is) at times more useful than the Thruway because of the freight sizes it can handle.

The entire thing is the New York State Barge Canal, as is the entire canal system.

[Rothman]

I should have added that they were using percentages to exaggerate small actual numbers (i.e., We've had 100% growth in freight traffic! = We had 10 barges last year and 20 this year!).

I work with a guy who used to work on the canal.  There were fun things about it, such as boat captains leaving you a six pack when you operate the lock, but also not so fun things about it, like working alongside violent ex-cons on parole.

[cpzilliacus]

I should have added that they were using percentages to exaggerate small actual numbers (i.e., We've had 100% growth in freight traffic! = We had 10 barges last year and 20 this year!).

Transit agencies like to engage in similar exaggeration.

I work with a guy who used to work on the canal.  There were fun things about it, such as boat captains leaving you a six pack when you operate the lock, but also not so fun things about it, like working alongside violent ex-cons on parole.

I thought it was only public transit agencies that hired ex-cons into nice well-paid transportation jobs?

[MrDisco99]

Briefly jumped on the Thruway while on a road trip through the northeast last month (exit 23 through the Berkshire connector to the MassPike).  I noticed the tickets shrunk to the same size that everyone else uses, as opposed to the big tickets they handed out when I clinched the mainline a few years ago.  Tolls seemed to be the same though.

I wonder if the Thruway will be the last holdouts on running a closed ticketed system and human toll collectors.  Indiana, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts have at least taken baby steps into the modern age.  Wonder what it would take for NY to stop being so stubborn.

[cl94]

Briefly jumped on the Thruway while on a road trip through the northeast last month (exit 23 through the Berkshire connector to the MassPike).  I noticed the tickets shrunk to the same size that everyone else uses, as opposed to the big tickets they handed out when I clinched the mainline a few years ago.  Tolls seemed to be the same though.

I wonder if the Thruway will be the last holdouts on running a closed ticketed system and human toll collectors.  Indiana, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts have at least taken baby steps into the modern age.  Wonder what it would take for NY to stop being so stubborn.

It'll always be a closed system, but they're starting the AET transition within the next few months at Tappan Zee. Barriers are being converted first.

[vdeane]

Briefly jumped on the Thruway while on a road trip through the northeast last month (exit 23 through the Berkshire connector to the MassPike).  I noticed the tickets shrunk to the same size that everyone else uses, as opposed to the big tickets they handed out when I clinched the mainline a few years ago.  Tolls seemed to be the same though.

That occurred a couple years back when the Thruway replaced the ticket dispensers (the old ones were printing faded tickets).  The new tickets use one standard ticket for all vehicle classes (using the class 2L rates) rather than printing customized toll schedules for every vehicle class.

[MrDisco99]

Briefly jumped on the Thruway while on a road trip through the northeast last month (exit 23 through the Berkshire connector to the MassPike).  I noticed the tickets shrunk to the same size that everyone else uses, as opposed to the big tickets they handed out when I clinched the mainline a few years ago.  Tolls seemed to be the same though.

That occurred a couple years back when the Thruway replaced the ticket dispensers (the old ones were printing faded tickets).  The new tickets use one standard ticket for all vehicle classes (using the class 2L rates) rather than printing customized toll schedules for every vehicle class.

Haha yes they were faded.  I have the very streaky exit 15 ticket from when I drove the mainline in 2012 and you can barely read it.

[Buffaboy]

How were you guys able to keep the tickets, when you're supposed to give them to the collector?

[cl94]

How were you guys able to keep the tickets, when you're supposed to give them to the collector?

I have the very streaky exit 15 ticket from when I drove the mainline in 2012 and you can barely read it.

I'm assuming he drove it all at once. If you go the entire length, you get charged the maximum toll, which is what you'd be charged if you don't have a ticket.

[Pete from Boston]

This was one of the perks of the infamous Mass Pike wave-through in heavy traffic–you got a free souvenir ticket!

[MrDisco99]

Yeah if you tell the attendant you lost your ticket, you pay the maximum toll from the furthest endpoint.  If that's where you came from anyway, then it doesn't cost you anything to do it.  This way I've collected tickets from just about every ticketed toll road I've driven... FL, OH, PA, NJ, NY (both sections), and MA.

The only exception was the one in Indiana which has an automated payment system and no human in the booth.  Rather than call for help and wait, I decided to just insert my ticket and keep going.

Interestingly, if you keep your ticket on the Thruway they make you fill out some form with some of your personal info including your license plate number.  I'm guessing this is so they can keep track of people doing this kind of thing to fraud the system.  Only the NY Thruway had me do this.

[cl94]

Yeah if you tell the attendant you lost your ticket, you pay the maximum toll from the furthest endpoint.  If that's where you came from anyway, then it doesn't cost you anything to do it.  This way I've collected tickets from just about every ticketed toll road I've driven... FL, OH, PA, NJ, NY (both sections), and MA.

The only exception was the one in Indiana which has an automated payment system and no human in the booth.  Rather than call for help and wait, I decided to just insert my ticket and keep going.

Interestingly, if you keep your ticket on the Thruway they make you fill out some form with some of your personal info including your license plate number.  I'm guessing this is so they can keep track of people doing this kind of thing to fraud the system.  Only the NY Thruway had me do this.

Runs your plate through the system. Knowing the weird way New York thinks, the thought may be that that criminals trying to make a getaway would "lose" their ticket to avoid being tracked. For example, if there's an amber alert and they thought someone got on the Thruway, they radio it out to everyone and pay attention to entrance point/car type. If someone conveniently loses a ticket in this situation, making them put down their info in the system and if they refuse, they can send the cops out for that.

[thenetwork]

Back in the 80s and into the 90s along the Ohio Turnpike, some of the Toll Plazas had an entrance booth for "Passenger Cars Only", and thus the only tickets dispensed (from an automatic dispenser) were for the Class 1 cars.

Some of the dispensers would stick a ticket out before the next car would come through to reduce the wait/stop time for cars.  I had figured out that if you took the first ticket and waited a few extra seconds, another ticket would stick out.  I drove a stick shift at the time, so I would purposely "stall" the car and by the time I got the car started again, I could grab a second ticket and scram.

Another you could collect an OH Tpk ticket was to drive around the back side of the Service Plaza right before the main exit.  If the delivery gate between the turnpike service plaza and the local employee parking lot was open, then drive out the local road.   This happened once when the car of a college carpool I was a passenger in crapped out right before the Service Plaza.  Tow truck came by and picked us up and took us right through the open gate (a simple, long, chain link swing gate) and to the local garage where I had to call my parents for the rest of the ride home.

Nowadays, they use automatic gate arms, cameras and intercom systems for vehicles to pass on and off the Turnpike side of the Service Plaza. And the Passenger Car Only ticket dispensing lanes are probably long gone as well.

The extra tickets I collected were only for preservation purposes only, and not used to pay a lesser toll. 

[cl94]

Back in the 80s and into the 90s along the Ohio Turnpike, some of the Toll Plazas had an entrance booth for "Passenger Cars Only", and thus the only tickets dispensed (from an automatic dispenser) were for the Class 1 cars.

Some of the dispensers would stick a ticket out before the next car would come through to reduce the wait/stop time for cars.  I had figured out that if you took the first ticket and waited a few extra seconds, another ticket would stick out.  I drove a stick shift at the time, so I would purposely "stall" the car and by the time I got the car started again, I could grab a second ticket and scram.

Another you could collect an OH Tpk ticket was to drive around the back side of the Service Plaza right before the main exit.  If the delivery gate between the turnpike service plaza and the local employee parking lot was open, then drive out the local road.   This happened once when the car of a college carpool I was a passenger in crapped out right before the Service Plaza.  Tow truck came by and picked us up and took us right through the open gate (a simple, long, chain link swing gate) and to the local garage where I had to call my parents for the rest of the ride home.

Nowadays, they use automatic gate arms, cameras and intercom systems for vehicles to pass on and off the Turnpike side of the Service Plaza. And the Passenger Car Only ticket dispensing lanes are probably long gone as well.

The extra tickets I collected were only for preservation purposes only, and not used to pay a lesser toll.

Car lanes are gone, especially now that E-ZPass is there

[vdeane]

There's a passenger car only lane getting on the Thruway at exit 24 (lane 3).  No idea if it once only had class 2L tickets or why it's there now.

Another you could collect an OH Tpk ticket was to drive around the back side of the Service Plaza right before the main exit.  If the delivery gate between the turnpike service plaza and the local employee parking lot was open, then drive out the local road.   This happened once when the car of a college carpool I was a passenger in crapped out right before the Service Plaza.  Tow truck came by and picked us up and took us right through the open gate (a simple, long, chain link swing gate) and to the local garage where I had to call my parents for the rest of the ride home.

Sounds like it was also a way to avoid paying.

[cl94]

There's a passenger car only lane getting on the Thruway at exit 24 (lane 3).  No idea if it once only had class 2L tickets or why it's there now.

Being as it's the only machine I know of on the system and the machines that formerly existed only spat out 2L tickets, I'm assuming it once had 2L tickets. As for why it's still there, who knows. Most of the car lanes and ticket machines went the way of the dodo when E-ZPass was introduced.

[Alps]

Yeah if you tell the attendant you lost your ticket, you pay the maximum toll from the furthest endpoint.  If that's where you came from anyway, then it doesn't cost you anything to do it.  This way I've collected tickets from just about every ticketed toll road I've driven... FL, OH, PA, NJ, NY (both sections), and MA.

The only exception was the one in Indiana which has an automated payment system and no human in the booth.  Rather than call for help and wait, I decided to just insert my ticket and keep going.

Interestingly, if you keep your ticket on the Thruway they make you fill out some form with some of your personal info including your license plate number.  I'm guessing this is so they can keep track of people doing this kind of thing to fraud the system.  Only the NY Thruway had me do this.

You don't really have to fill out anything personal. I scrawled it.