New York State Thruway

[cl94]

That Exit-54 photo in cl94's above post is typical of Thruway signing. They use the wrong size arrow for the sign format. When the arrow is to the side of the legend the long-stem arrow should be used. The short-stem arrow is intended for signs where the arrow is placed below the legend, where vertical space is limited. When it comes to signing, the Thruway Authority just doesn't "get it"! They should take lessons from NYSDOT who mostly gets it right.

On the same sign bridge. This one might make you blind.

[cu2010]

They should take lessons from NYSDOT who mostly gets it right.

NYSDOT gets it wrong a lot these days, too!

[SignBridge]

NYSDOT makes their mistakes too, but they do better signing than the Thruway Authority.

[Buffaboy]

NYSDOT makes their mistakes too, but they do better signing than the Thruway Authority.

They do. I don't like how NYSTA (AFAIK) doesn't have county or town border signs. I'd rather see those before I see mile-based exits, but I'm sure it's not even being planned. I like to know when I cross borders.

[ixnay]

NYSDOT makes their mistakes too, but they do better signing than the Thruway Authority.

They do. I don't like how NYSTA (AFAIK) doesn't have county or town border signs. I'd rather see those before I see mile-based exits, but I'm sure it's not even being planned. I like to know when I cross borders.

Neither does the NJTA that I've noticed (at least for the Turnpike, which I've been on a lot more times than the GSP).

ixnay

[machias]

NYSDOT makes their mistakes too, but they do better signing than the Thruway Authority.

They do. I don't like how NYSTA (AFAIK) doesn't have county or town border signs. I'd rather see those before I see mile-based exits, but I'm sure it's not even being planned. I like to know when I cross borders.

I had a huge argument over email with NYSTA about county line signs on the Thruway about a decade ago. I stressed the importance of county line signs as a navigational aid for motorists. They said that motorists don't really concern themselves with what county they're in, I countered that since the National Weather Service issues weather alerts based on county they should include county line signs.  They offered to send me a map.  Their rationale was that if they signed county lines, they'd have to sign every town and village border as well.

[The Nature Boy]

NYSDOT makes their mistakes too, but they do better signing than the Thruway Authority.

They do. I don't like how NYSTA (AFAIK) doesn't have county or town border signs. I'd rather see those before I see mile-based exits, but I'm sure it's not even being planned. I like to know when I cross borders.

I had a huge argument over email with NYSTA about county line signs on the Thruway about a decade ago. I stressed the importance of county line signs as a navigational aid for motorists. They said that motorists don't really concern themselves with what county they're in, I countered that since the National Weather Service issues weather alerts based on county they should include county line signs.  They offered to send me a map.  Their rationale was that if they signed county lines, they'd have to sign every town and village border as well.

And yet amazing there are states of comparable size that do just fine signing counties.

[empirestate]

NYSDOT makes their mistakes too, but they do better signing than the Thruway Authority.

They do. I don't like how NYSTA (AFAIK) doesn't have county or town border signs. I'd rather see those before I see mile-based exits, but I'm sure it's not even being planned. I like to know when I cross borders.

I had a huge argument over email with NYSTA about county line signs on the Thruway about a decade ago. I stressed the importance of county line signs as a navigational aid for motorists. They said that motorists don't really concern themselves with what county they're in, I countered that since the National Weather Service issues weather alerts based on county they should include county line signs.  They offered to send me a map.  Their rationale was that if they signed county lines, they'd have to sign every town and village border as well.

And yet amazing there are states of comparable size that do just fine signing counties.

And the MassPike does sign every town line, on a toll road that takes up a commensurate proportion of that state's area.

That being said, I made the discovery a couple years ago that NYSTA does indeed sign one particular county line in the two places the system crosses it: on both I-87 and I-95 at the Bronx/Westchester County line. (That's also the New York City line, but despite their rationale cited above, signing this boundary by the lesser-known county names didn't seem to compel them to sign the city as well!)

[cl94]

NYSDOT makes their mistakes too, but they do better signing than the Thruway Authority.

They do. I don't like how NYSTA (AFAIK) doesn't have county or town border signs. I'd rather see those before I see mile-based exits, but I'm sure it's not even being planned. I like to know when I cross borders.

I had a huge argument over email with NYSTA about county line signs on the Thruway about a decade ago. I stressed the importance of county line signs as a navigational aid for motorists. They said that motorists don't really concern themselves with what county they're in, I countered that since the National Weather Service issues weather alerts based on county they should include county line signs.  They offered to send me a map.  Their rationale was that if they signed county lines, they'd have to sign every town and village border as well.

And yet amazing there are states of comparable size that do just fine signing counties.

And the MassPike does sign every town line, on a toll road that takes up a commensurate proportion of that state's area.

That being said, I made the discovery a couple years ago that NYSTA does indeed sign one particular county line in the two places the system crosses it: on both I-87 and I-95 at the Bronx/Westchester County line. (That's also the New York City line, but despite their rationale cited above, signing this boundary by the lesser-known county names didn't seem to compel them to sign the city as well!)

They sign the occasional city line as well. The Buffalo and Niagara Falls city lines are signed on I-190 where maintained by NYSTA. Niagara Falls one is just south of the North Grand Island Bridge and it is button copy.

[roadman]

And yet amazing there are states of comparable size that do just fine signing counties.

And the MassPike does sign every town line, on a toll road that takes up a commensurate proportion of that state's area.

Speaking of such, the new city/town line signs to be installed on the MassPike West Stockbridge to Auburn and Auburn to Boston projects will include county lines where applicable.

[route17fan]

http://www.thruway.ny.gov/netdata/contractors/documents/d214390_taa15-34b_plans-volume-1-of-1.pdf

D214390 will replace a really old overpass over I-87 just north of exit 19 (NY 28 Kingston) - it's the Sawkill Rd overpass and a really old overpass!

GSV link:  https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kingston,+NY/@41.9529318,-74.0197875,3a,75y,56.93h,84.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWpxUi6lmwRamoiwFenrICw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DWpxUi6lmwRamoiwFenrICw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D45.092804%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x89dd0f012dc98127:0x41d7895a5832c913!6m1!1e1

[xcellntbuy]

http://www.thruway.ny.gov/netdata/contractors/documents/d214390_taa15-34b_plans-volume-1-of-1.pdf

D214390 will replace a really old overpass over I-87 just north of exit 19 (NY 28 Kingston) - it's the Sawkill Rd overpass and a really old overpass!

GSV link:  https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kingston,+NY/@41.9529318,-74.0197875,3a,75y,56.93h,84.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWpxUi6lmwRamoiwFenrICw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DWpxUi6lmwRamoiwFenrICw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D45.092804%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x89dd0f012dc98127:0x41d7895a5832c913!6m1!1e1

I used to drive under that overpass 20 years ago and it NEEDED to be painted then!  It's an old one, probably from around 1960, as old I am.

[SignBridge]

The original Thruway overpasses date back to the Thruway's opening circa 1954.

[Pete from Boston]

And yet amazing there are states of comparable size that do just fine signing counties.

And the MassPike does sign every town line, on a toll road that takes up a commensurate proportion of that state's area.

Speaking of such, the new city/town line signs to be installed on the MassPike West Stockbridge to Auburn and Auburn to Boston projects will include county lines where applicable.

This was standard practice going way back by MassHighway and its predecessors.  I recall the probably-original markers on 495 in the 1970s and 80s as it jumped frequently from county to county, but can't recall if town-line markers within a county also listed the county.  Somehow I have since stopped paying those signs any attention.

I suppose this will bring the Mass Pike in line with the general statewide practice.

[roadman]

And yet amazing there are states of comparable size that do just fine signing counties.

And the MassPike does sign every town line, on a toll road that takes up a commensurate proportion of that state's area.

Speaking of such, the new city/town line signs to be installed on the MassPike West Stockbridge to Auburn and Auburn to Boston projects will include county lines where applicable.

This was standard practice going way back by MassHighway and its predecessors.  I recall the probably-original markers on 495 in the 1970s and 80s as it jumped frequently from county to county, but can't recall if town-line markers within a county also listed the county.  Somehow I have since stopped paying those signs any attention.

I suppose this will bring the Mass Pike in line with the general statewide practice.

MassDOW/MassHighway/MassDOT standard town line markers include the county name only at county lines, and not at each city/town line within the county.  And, although including the county name at county lines was originally the standard, it had been inconsistently applied on signs through the years.

As for the signs on the Turnpike, Mass. Turnpike Authority standards did not call for including the county name on town line signs at county borders, which is why the information did not appear on signs installed under the MTA's mid-1990s sign updating projects.

[Buffaboy]

Traffic on Main Street in Williamsville isn't getting any better, so village officials are dusting off old proposals for a new Youngs Road Thruway interchange to relieve stifling congestion. They want an interchange that links the Thruway to the village as well as Buffalo Niagara International Airport.

And in the process, they lambaste Amherst Town officials for failing to build the infrastructure to accommodate "unbridled development growth."

While the village has neither the authority nor the money to sponsor such a major project, Mayor Brian J. Kulpa says it's time to "start the conversation"  with an eye toward reducing traffic problems on major thoroughfares like Main Street.

http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/williamsville/williamsville-seeks-new-thruway-interchange-to-relieve-main-st-congestion-20151121

This is an idea that I think is stupid. For one, the physical toll barrier hasn't been moved eastward yet. By the time it does AET will be here and it'll have been replaced by a gantry.

Second, it's so close to the Transit Road exit that it doesn't make much sense positionally speaking. I would argue that it makes more sense for a Wehrle Dr interchange and maybe even Ransom Road interchange than a Youngs Rd. one.

The area got it wrong when they didn't build that beltway 40 years ago.

[WNYroadgeek]

I would argue that it makes more sense for a Wehrle Dr interchange and maybe even Ransom Road interchange than a Youngs Rd. one.

The problem with that is there's absolutely nowhere on Wehrle to put an interchange. At least there's some land to work with at the Youngs overpass.

But yeah, probably won't see anything come of this proposal unless NYSTA ever goes through with their plan to remove the Williamsville Toll Barrier and build a new one in Newstead.

[Buffaboy]

I would argue that it makes more sense for a Wehrle Dr interchange and maybe even Ransom Road interchange than a Youngs Rd. one.

The problem with that is there's absolutely nowhere on Wehrle to put an interchange. At least there's some land to work with at the Youngs overpass.

But yeah, probably won't see anything come of this proposal unless NYSTA ever goes through with their plan to remove the Williamsville Toll Barrier and build a new one in Newstead.

It took me awhile to realize this. Unless they used eminent domain then it just wouldn't happen.

I saw a comment on the Buffalo News by an Artvoice editor who went after the Newstead town officials because they oppose toll barriers there. NYSTA needs to get AET going within 10 years.

If they do move booths beforehand though, I'd say they should move the Lackawanna one back to around Rogers Road.

[vdeane]

Did someone ever tell Newstead that the moved barrier wouldn't be anything like Williamsville because the vast majority of Thruway traffic uses E-ZPass and that those users wouldn't even need to slow down?  I was wondering why the project died, seeing as it first appeared on the Thruway's site 15 years ago.  Honestly, they should have just built it anyways.

[cl94]

Did someone ever tell Newstead that the moved barrier wouldn't be anything like Williamsville because the vast majority of Thruway traffic uses E-ZPass and that those users wouldn't even need to slow down?  I was wondering why the project died, seeing as it first appeared on the Thruway's site 15 years ago.  Honestly, they should have just built it anyways.

Environmental issues. Stretch between Exits 48A and 49 is mostly wetlands.

[jasonsk287]

NYSDOT makes their mistakes too, but they do better signing than the Thruway Authority.

They do. I don't like how NYSTA (AFAIK) doesn't have county or town border signs. I'd rather see those before I see mile-based exits, but I'm sure it's not even being planned. I like to know when I cross borders.

I had a huge argument over email with NYSTA about county line signs on the Thruway about a decade ago. I stressed the importance of county line signs as a navigational aid for motorists. They said that motorists don't really concern themselves with what county they're in, I countered that since the National Weather Service issues weather alerts based on county they should include county line signs.  They offered to send me a map.  Their rationale was that if they signed county lines, they'd have to sign every town and village border as well.

The PA Turnpike uses PA's small blue and white signs to sign county lines. PennDOT signs, generally, each township and county border on their state roads, but on the Turnpike it's just counties. So, as you know, there's proof that their rationale is flawed.

I've always felt, as I've driven I-87 from LI to Albany many times, that county lines are absolutely necessary. NYSDOT does it, so why can't the Thruway?

[roadman65]

New Jersey is even more flawed as NJDOT signs town borders only, but no county lines.  However, the Garden State Parkway signs only county lines on blue pentagon signs, no town limits.  The NJ Turnpike signs no crossings between counties and communities.  I do not know about the ACE as I have yet to clinch it west of the airport.

[odditude]

NJDOT signs town borders only, but no county lines.

given there's no unincorporated land in NJ, there's no real need to sign this info - even if it might be nice to see.

[cl94]

NJDOT signs town borders only, but no county lines.

given there's no unincorporated land in NJ, there's no real need to sign this info - even if it might be nice to see.

Town lines are great for location. New York doesn't really have unincorporated land, either, and town line signs do wonders for wayfinding. Especially with sequential exit numbers, it's often a lot easier for the typical motorist to judge distance by town/county lines than by milemarkers.

[machias]

NJDOT signs town borders only, but no county lines.

given there's no unincorporated land in NJ, there's no real need to sign this info - even if it might be nice to see.

Town lines are great for location. New York doesn't really have unincorporated land, either, and town line signs do wonders for wayfinding. Especially with sequential exit numbers, it's often a lot easier for the typical motorist to judge distance by town/county lines than by milemarkers.

The National Weather Service sends out weather alerts by county (or parts of counties, "Northern Oneida", etc.).  For an agency that is still getting lambasted for the snowstorm in Buffalo last year, and posting "Emergency Detour" signs all over creation, you'd think the Thruway Authority could put up 40 signs (I roughly counted that the Thruway passes through 20 counties) marking county lines. The Thruway carries a lot of traffic from motorists not familiar with the area. They've put up that many signs indicating how many times you pass in and out of the Erie Canal and Hudson River Heritage Areas, and they don't provide any tangible navigational assistance at all.

40 signs. There's that many "Emergency Detour" signs between Utica and Verona.