New York State Thruway

[NJ]

Regardless of the name of the highway, it's still I-87 throughout to Montreal

[vdeane]

Technically it's only I-87 to the border and then becomes A-15 .

The Thruway isn't just a name that happens to be on part of the road.  It's its own system that I-87 just happens to overlap with for 148 miles.  The Thruway was there first.  In fact, many people along the Thruway don't even know I-90 and I-87 exist on it - it's just "the Thruway".  To someone from the Albany area, I-87 is ONLY the Northway, and I-90 is only the free section; we really do say things like "take I-87 until it ends, then take the exit for the Thruway" (and the road is pretty much signed that way).

I-90 has three sets of numbers as well: 61-24, 1-12, B1-B3.

[cl94]

Technically it's only I-87 to the border and then becomes A-15 .

The Thruway isn't just a name that happens to be on part of the road.  It's its own system that I-87 just happens to overlap with for 148 miles.  The Thruway was there first.  In fact, many people along the Thruway don't even know I-90 and I-87 exist on it - it's just "the Thruway".  To someone from the Albany area, I-87 is ONLY the Northway, and I-90 is only the free section; we really do say things like "take I-87 until it ends, then take the exit for the Thruway" (and the road is pretty much signed that way).

I-90 has three sets of numbers as well: 61-24, 1-12, B1-B3.

People in Albany know about I-90 being continuous because the free section is colloquially "free 90". Don't know how it is now, but traffic reports used "free 90". Few refer to I-87 by number. There is the Northway and there is the Thruway. I-87 is one of the very few 2DIs, if not the only one, that has no sections that are commonly referred to by number. Outside of heavily-populated areas, surface roads are referred to by number. I-88 only has a number, as do the 3DIs.

[SignBridge]

Vdeane makes a good point about the Thruway and other states' signature toll roads having existed before the Interstate Hwy. System was created and how the incorporating or overlapping of the Interstates onto those roads has created some confusion.

Some historic trivia. Most of the NY Thruway opened in 1954, though the Buffalo section I believe was opened later, in 1957 and the New England Section circa 1959. The Interstate System was legislated into existence in 1956 under President Eisenhower who envisioned a national highway system similar to the German Autobahns.   

With regard to the three different sets of exit numbers on I-87, can you imagine how screwed up it will all get if NYSDOT and NYSTA ever renumber the exits using the federally mandated mileage based system in the MUTCD? We've previously discussed that elsewhere on these boards and it will be a mess if they ever do it. 

[cl94]

With regard to the three different sets of exit numbers on I-87, can you imagine how screwed up it will all get if NYSDOT and NYSTA ever renumber the exits using the federally mandated mileage based system in the MUTCD? We've previously discussed that elsewhere on these boards and it will be a mess if they ever do it.

It won't really affect much because the Thruway plans to adopt AET. Even if there were still tickets, no number on a single ticket would be duplicated. We went over that as well because a few of us ran the numbers. Helps that the first 80 miles of I-90 and south of Exit 16 aren't on the main ticket system. The Albany exits on I-90 would be well over 300.

[shadyjay]

My Non-AET solution: 

Make the Thruway through Albany toll-free.  Build two new plazas, one near Selkirk and one near Schenectady, both with 2 high speed EZ-Pass lanes.  Separate tickets for the Schenectady-Buffalo and Selkirk-Downstate section.  Then you won't have to worry about the exit numbers conflicting on the tickets.  At the same time, you can build the direct Thruway NB->I-87NB ramps (and vice versa) passing beneath US 20/Western Ave, open to any vehicle.  Eliminates the Exit 24 toll plaza and (most of the) delays there.

[machias]

 

With regard to the three different sets of exit numbers on I-87, can you imagine how screwed up it will all get if NYSDOT and NYSTA ever renumber the exits using the federally mandated mileage based system in the MUTCD? We've previously discussed that elsewhere on these boards and it will be a mess if they ever do it. 

I don't think it would be a mess at all. The Thruway is eventually going to switch and their plan is to sign the Thruway as one single entity, with Exit 1 in Ripley and Exit 496 at Hall Place.  Not an ideal situation by any means, but it's not awful. The Northway would start around Exit 158.  The free portion of I-90 would be well into the 300s.

If the Thruway Authority numbered according to the interstate the Thruway is following, the numbers still wouldn't be that confusing.  As mentioned earlier, there would be no duplication of numbers between I-90 and I-87 and the similar numbers would be on opposite sides of the state (for example Batavia on I-90 would be Exit 106, Saugerties on I-87 would be Exit 110), minimizing confusion to motorists. In addition, making the interstate route numbering more prominent would assist with minimizing confusion.  It would be a shift in thinking, interstate numbers instead of "The Thruway", which would probably be a blow to the ego of the Thruway Authority, but it doesn't make this approach wrong.

[roadman65]

Technically it's only I-87 to the border and then becomes A-15 .

The Thruway isn't just a name that happens to be on part of the road.  It's its own system that I-87 just happens to overlap with for 148 miles.  The Thruway was there first.  In fact, many people along the Thruway don't even know I-90 and I-87 exist on it - it's just "the Thruway".  To someone from the Albany area, I-87 is ONLY the Northway, and I-90 is only the free section; we really do say things like "take I-87 until it ends, then take the exit for the Thruway" (and the road is pretty much signed that way).

I-90 has three sets of numbers as well: 61-24, 1-12, B1-B3.

I have heard someone in Glens Falls refer to it by number.  I used to think the Northway was called to it by name too until I heard a local say otherwise.

Yes between the NYS Thruway and Major Deegan, I would hear someone say if they were going NB, take the Major Deegan into the Thruway instead of saying I-87 or Route 87 north only.

Then again here if FL we have many who live in Tampa going to Miami say "Take I-75 southbound to Alligator Alley" instead of just saying "Take I-75 South."  In New Jersey my uncle lived in Linden, but worked in Secaucus, and took Route 1 & 9 North to Tonnelle Avenue to County Road to get to work.  Tonnelle Avenue, as most of us know, is part of Routes 1 & 9, but to non road geeks they call em as they see em, and most think Route 1 & 9 continues into NYC via The Holland Tunnel just like Route 3 is the route inside the Lincoln Tunnel because  NJ 495 is a continuous freeway  with NJ 3 at its east end.

[Duke87]

I don't think it would be a mess at all. The Thruway is eventually going to switch and their plan is to sign the Thruway as one single entity, with Exit 1 in Ripley and Exit 496 at Hall Place.  Not an ideal situation by any means, but it's not awful.

It's better than what currently exists only because it's mile based. Less distance is backwards, but now the backwards part will include the most highly traveled part. And I-87 and I-90 will still have three sets of exit numbers each.

There is no practical reason why the Thruway could not number exits using 87 and 90's mileposts, but they won't because it would require too much interagency cooperation for New York.

[roadman65]

Why can't the Deegan and Northway have the same set?  Just skip over those numbers that the NYSTA does not want to use.

[The Nature Boy]

I don't think it would be a mess at all. The Thruway is eventually going to switch and their plan is to sign the Thruway as one single entity, with Exit 1 in Ripley and Exit 496 at Hall Place.  Not an ideal situation by any means, but it's not awful.

It's better than what currently exists only because it's mile based. Less distance is backwards, but now the backwards part will include the most highly traveled part. And I-87 and I-90 will still have three sets of exit numbers each.

There is no practical reason why the Thruway could not number exits using 87 and 90's mileposts, but they won't because it would require too much interagency cooperation for New York.

Using 87 and 90's mile posts would also make sense for navigational reasons. If I'm entering NY from PA on the Thruway, I'm likely not taking it all the way to NYC. If I'm a long distance traveler, I'm taking 90 to MA line or jumping off on NY 7 to go to Vermont. It might helpful to know how far I have until the MA state line, less helpful to know how far until NYC.

[roadman65]

That brings up a question, does anyone other than us here, who look to clinch highways for the sake of clinching, do use all 495 miles of the Thruway in one sitting? 

I would have to agree with Nature Boy on that. Due to its awkward routing and the fact you have Route 17 (soon to be all I-86) which cuts your travel time big time.  Even my dad going to Niagara Falls never took the Thruway from the NYC area.  He cut through New Jersey and NE PA and took NY 17 from Binghamton westward to cut over later.  This was even before I-390 was completed!

[vdeane]

IMO if you're going to redo all the mileposts on the Thruway, you might as well give I-90 and I-87 their own numbers.  Especially if the Thruway ever goes AET on the ticket system.  Doing otherwise just feels messy to me.

From what I know of the plan, I-87 on the Northway would continue the numbers based on I-87's total mileage from I-278.  Free 90 would continue the mileage from the PA line.  No idea what the situation would be on the Berkshire Spur, but I-90 and I-87 would each have at most two sets of numbers instead of three.

[shadyjay]

No idea what the situation would be on the Berkshire Spur, but I-90 and I-87 would each have at most two sets of numbers instead of three.

Just continue the mile-based numbering from Ripley right to Mass... Thruway, free 90, and Berkshire Spur would be one continuous exit numbering sequence.  No exits exist on the Berkshire Spur west of free 90, except the Thruway jct.  Only major change would be signing the through route WB (Berkshire Spur to I-87) as the exit number, instead of 90WB exiting from itself getting the number.  Or to eliminate confusion, remove the exit number altogether. 

Or, truncate the toll/ticket portion to a point between I-87 and I-90, perhaps with an AET gantry.  Then to get the lost revenue, convert the existing plaza near Exit B3 to a barrier toll. 

[cl94]

The person in Glens Falls who used the number must be a transplant. Everyone there is name only. I'd know because that's where I grew up. The Northway, NY 9L, and US 9 within Glens Falls and Lake George are only referred to by name.

As to whether people do the entire length at once, no. But there are a heck of a lot of people who will use it between New York and Buffalo for the regular patrols and frequent services. That's 420ish/496 miles. Women traveling alone and seniors prefer the security and reliable services, even if it takes longer and costs a lot more.

[dgolub]

From what I know of the plan, I-87 on the Northway would continue the numbers based on I-87's total mileage from I-278.  Free 90 would continue the mileage from the PA line.  No idea what the situation would be on the Berkshire Spur, but I-90 and I-87 would each have at most two sets of numbers instead of three.

It could continue the exit numbering scheme from free I-90.  Heading west, it would be considered a numbered exit to stay on the Berkshire Spur across the Castleton-on-Hudson Bridge.  Coming across the bridge heading east, it would be a split at the end for I-90 east or west, with no exit number either way.

Alternatively, they could reroute I-90 along the full length of the Berkshire Spur, multiplexed it with I-87 at what's now exits 21A-24, and redesignate free I-90 as I-487 or I-687 or something like that.

[machias]

Alternatively, they could reroute I-90 along the full length of the Berkshire Spur, multiplexed it with I-87 at what's now exits 21A-24, and redesignate free I-90 as I-487 or I-687 or something like that.

That's what they should have done in the first place, but I have a feeling someone in Albany had an ego that demanded a two-digit interstate.  I-90 was moved off the Berkshire Spur to the existing routing in the early 1970s. I can't believe anyone thought that was a good idea and I'm surprised the Thruway went along with it, because it lends to toll money being diverted from the Thruway (when motorists stay on I-90).

I don't ever see free 90 becoming I-487 because that would make too much sense for the New York State political arena (which is involved in many things they shouldn't be, like route numbers).

[Rothman]

I can't believe anyone thought that was a good idea and I'm surprised the Thruway went along with it, because it lends to toll money being diverted from the Thruway (when motorists stay on I-90).

Perhaps on its face it's head-scratching, but you'd be surprised with how well the Thruway keeps people on the Bershire Spur.  The signage is well-done to that effect.  They have large signs leading people to I-87 and major destinations, whereas the exit for I-90 has it going to Hudson and Albany. 

The signage is so effective that even my road-savvy father was even wondering how he never ended up on the free section of I-90 when he went through there back in the 1980s a couple of times.   He figured it out, of course, but if time is a factor, it's really not worth the trouble to get off the Thruway, go through Albany, and back on it (especially around rush hour).

[AMLNet49]

Isn't the object to avoid multiplexed interstates where possible? Especially in the northeast where multiplexes are rare and thus confusing (the only one is 87/287, but for all practical purposes there might as well just be two seperate 287s. There's also the very short 87/90 in Albany but I'm not sure most people realize it's a multiplex because it's so short). Having the 2DI on an independent route I think is a good thing, plus it gives through traffic drivers on I-90 a bit of toll relief.

[roadman65]

The person in Glens Falls who used the number must be a transplant. Everyone there is name only. I'd know because that's where I grew up. The Northway, NY 9L, and US 9 within Glens Falls and Lake George are only referred to by name.

As to whether people do the entire length at once, no. But there are a heck of a lot of people who will use it between New York and Buffalo for the regular patrols and frequent services. That's 420ish/496 miles. Women traveling alone and seniors prefer the security and reliable services, even if it takes longer and costs a lot more.

I thought so as well.  Or, he might of been trying to make it easy on us as we were asking him directions at the time.

I thought that he might of said that so we could find it as the entrance ramps do not say "Northway."  Its like the Beachline here in Florida.  Ramp signs say FL 528, but locals use it by name, however if giving out directions, of course, I will say "Highway 528" to them because the ramps are signed for that.  To tell them to look for the Beachline would confuse them so much, due to the lack of signs there even though Tallahassee went through a lot of work to get the name changed in response to tourist group lobbyists thinking that the Space Coast would get more revenue if the name got changed from "Beeline" to "Beachline."

[cl94]

The signage instructing through traffic to remain on the Thruway is numerous, even though the time savings is negligible outside of rush hours. The Berkshire Spur west of Exit B1 may be the least-traveled section of the Thruway system, but NYSTA gets $1.65 for every car that doesn't take Free 90. I tell people to time their travel so they hit Albany around lunchtime so they can eat/refuel at the cheaper establishments along Free 90, but most don't think that way.

I-90 was moved off because the FHWA and AASHTO try to limit the amount of time a federally-designated route spends on a toll road.

[NJ]

Beautiful signage very clear, nice fonts and design.

[roadman65]

It says Boston to stay on the Thruway, but coming into this interchange from the north on I-87 it says to use free I-90 to Boston.

Also the Mass Pike Shield is nice off to the side of the Thruway shield.

[noelbotevera]

It says Boston to stay on the Thruway, but coming into this interchange from the north on I-87 it says to use free I-90 to Boston.

Also the Mass Pike Shield is nice off to the side of the Thruway shield.

The free I-90 is the cheaper way. Some people don't know about this and take the more expensive route by staying on I-87.

[dgolub]

It says Boston to stay on the Thruway, but coming into this interchange from the north on I-87 it says to use free I-90 to Boston.

After you've already passed exit 21A telling you to get off there for the Berkshire Connector to Boston.