New York State Thruway

[cl94]

With all of the bridge work they're doing on the Berkshire Spur, I'd have figured that they had put some sort of median barrier on the Castleton Bridge. Nope. It remains the only place in New York where the speed limit is 65 and the only thing separating you from opposing traffic is a line of construction barrels. Anyone know why the heck NYSTA hasn't put a barrier on that thing yet?

[Alps]

With all of the bridge work they're doing on the Berkshire Spur, I'd have figured that they had put some sort of median barrier on the Castleton Bridge. Nope. It remains the only place in New York where the speed limit is 65 and the only thing separating you from opposing traffic is a line of construction barrels. Anyone know why the heck NYSTA hasn't put a barrier on that thing yet?

I don't know, but it could be related to bridge design. A barrier adds a substantial dead load to the bridge. Sometimes the entire deck has to be replaced (orthotropic) to lighten the bridge enough.

[cl94]

With all of the bridge work they're doing on the Berkshire Spur, I'd have figured that they had put some sort of median barrier on the Castleton Bridge. Nope. It remains the only place in New York where the speed limit is 65 and the only thing separating you from opposing traffic is a line of construction barrels. Anyone know why the heck NYSTA hasn't put a barrier on that thing yet?

I don't know, but it could be related to bridge design. A barrier adds a substantial dead load to the bridge. Sometimes the entire deck has to be replaced (orthotropic) to lighten the bridge enough.

That's what I was assuming. My point was more of that they have traffic that's virtually undivided going 65 in each direction. A line of plastic bollards and/or a lower speed limit would have made sense, especially in a state that keeps stuff with higher design standards at 55.

[Alps]

With all of the bridge work they're doing on the Berkshire Spur, I'd have figured that they had put some sort of median barrier on the Castleton Bridge. Nope. It remains the only place in New York where the speed limit is 65 and the only thing separating you from opposing traffic is a line of construction barrels. Anyone know why the heck NYSTA hasn't put a barrier on that thing yet?

I don't know, but it could be related to bridge design. A barrier adds a substantial dead load to the bridge. Sometimes the entire deck has to be replaced (orthotropic) to lighten the bridge enough.

That's what I was assuming. My point was more of that they have traffic that's virtually undivided going 65 in each direction. A line of plastic bollards and/or a lower speed limit would have made sense, especially in a state that keeps stuff with higher design standards at 55.

If they have crossover accidents, then sure. If there's really no history to suggest a problem, then despite our perception, drivers are doing okay with it. That's up to the agency to know.

[Buffaboy]

I noticed they replaced the big BGS on I-90 EB before the 190 with one in Clearview...and they added a truck tipover warning sign.

[Buffaboy]

Opinion piece Thruway must embrace technology: New York should replace its manned toll plazas with fully electronic collection

New York Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo's plans for the New York State Thruway include: freezing tolls through 2020, cutting tolls in half for a million frequent travelers and eliminating tolls altogether for agricultural vehicles. In addition, he has pledged to invest heavily in desperately needed roadway infrastructure improvements. That's welcome news for Thruway travelers and for the state's business and tourism sectors.

We need more, however, much more. The Thruway is decades behind the times. Years ago, Ontario provincial planners began to study the feasibility of providing an alternative route to relieve traffic loads on their busy Highway 401 across the northern perimeter of the exploding Toronto Metropolitan region. Even with 16 lanes at some points, the 401 still slows to a crawl during high-volume periods and resembles a scene from "Mad Max"  in what passes for lighter traffic flows.

Construction began on the 407 in the late 1980s and in June 1997 it became the first fully electronic toll road in the world. As vehicles enter and exit the 407 ETR, they pass under toll bars at highway speed. Gone are the toll plazas with their traffic-choking booths to slow or stop traffic. Those with a 407 ETR transponder (similar to and made by the same manufacturer as the widely used E-ZPass) receive a monthly bill. Those without a transponder have their license plates video-ID'd and are billed at a much higher rate. Provincial licensing authorities enforce payment (pay up or lose your license) as do many cooperating state agencies in America.

Over the years, the 407 ETR has expanded and now spans nearly 70 miles. The electronic toll concept has grown as well. Nearly every toll road in the United States is electronic. New toll roads (yes, they are growing) are universally electronic. Most of the older toll roads have replaced their toll plazas and manned booths with the technology pioneered on the 407 ETR.

Meanwhile, in New York, we have one of the last toll roads with manned toll plazas. It's clear that the Thruway Authority has its head in the sand when it comes to change. There are a host of reasons large and small why New York should join the nearly universal move to electronic toll collection around the world.

Issues like relocating the Williamsville toll plaza will vanish. Vastly more important are the human beings manning those toll booths, exposed to horrific toxins, risking their health, risking or shortening their lives in a job as redundant as the elevator operators that disappeared years ago. In addition to removing these folks from harm's way, an electronic Thruway will reduce overall pollution dramatically, save time, save fuel, save money and reduce costs, eliminating the need to raise tolls in the foreseeable future.

http://www.buffnews.com/opinion/viewpoints/thruway-must-embrace-technology-new-york-should-replace-its-manned-toll-plazas-with-fully-electronic-collection-20160221

[Pete from Boston]

One of the last toll roads with manned toll plazas?  Not really...

[cl94]

Obviously they aren't paying attention to NYSTA's press releases, because Tappan Zee is supposedly going live in about 2 months. Last I heard, it is still on schedule and they are testing it now. Yonkers, Harriman, and New Rochelle are supposedly going to be up within the next couple years. The other closed system of similar magnitude (Pennsylvania) is just doing its switch as well.

As far as last, nowhere close. Ohio just got E-ZPass, for Christ's sake. We've heard nothing out of Maine, New Hampshire, New Jersey, or Ohio about AET (that I know of)

[vdeane]

That article is so full of BS it's not even funny.  They keep talking about how the surrounding states are AET and don't have separate toll authorities.  Let's take a look at the surrounding states.  Heck, let's add in the rest of the IAG!

New York: Mostly not AET, various authorities
Vermont: No tolls
New Hampshire: Not AET, NHDOT
Maine: Not AET, Maine Turnpike Authority
Massachusetts: implementing AET, Mass Turnpike Authority prior to merger with MassHighway
Rhode Island: AET, RIDOT
Connecticut: No tolls
New Jersey: Not AET (was investigating), New Jersey Turnpike Authority and Atlantic City Expressway
Pennsylvania: Implementing partial AET, Pennsylvania Turnpike Authority
Ohio: Not AET (not even E-ZPass until recently), Ohio Turnpike Authoirty
Indiana: Not AET, separate authority prior to privatization
Illinois: Not AET, separate authority
Delaware: Not AET (will be some AET with US 301), DOT?
Maryland: Some AET, MDTA
Virginia: Some AET, mix VDOT/TransUrban
North Carolina: AET, DOT?
West Virginia: Not AET, separate authority
Kentucky: Will be AET, DOT?
Ontario: AET, mix MTO and 407 ETR
Québec: Partially AET, public private partnerships

For fun, let's count anything that's mixed or I'm unsure of in the article's favor (I won't even count privatized entities that were never another public authority as being separate authorities), and not include NY:
-AET: 5
-Not fully or not AET: 12
-Separate agency: 8
-DOT/privatized: 9

So, basically, the article is full of shit.  The toll roads are overwhelmingly not AET, and a little over half don't have a separate public authority, and almost all of the latter are newer toll roads, and not part of the old Turnpikes; if we eliminated the Canadian provinces and the southern states with newer toll roads, it wouldn't even be a contest.

[ixnay]

Where's Delaware (and for that matter, the Delaware River and Bay Authority [DE/NJ])?

Where's the Delaware River Port Authority, the Burlington County Bridge Commission, and the Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission (all PA/NJ)?

ixnay

[cl94]

Depending on how you count the Ontario border bridges, most don't have an electronic toll system of any sort. Hell, most of the bridges in that damn newspaper's backyard just got E-ZPass.

Missed West Virginia, which has no AET (and one tolled Ohio River bridge with nothing).

[froggie]

Maryland: Some AET, separate authority

MdTA, which operates the Maryland toll facilities, falls under MDOT.

Virginia: Some AET, mix VDOT/TransUrban

Virginia is all over the place, much as ixnay suggested with New Jersey.  Besides VDOT (Coleman Bridge) and TransUrban (95/395 and Beltway HO/T lanes), there are the three toll facilities in Chesapeake which all belong to that city.  Three of the tolled facilities in Richmond are run by a regional agency, while a fourth (Pocohontas Pkwy/VA 895) is owned by a bunch of banks after TransUrban "walked away from it".  The CBBT is a separate agency.  The Dulles Toll Road is run by the airport authority, while the Dulles Greenway is private.

[Buffaboy]

It wasn't even really an opinion piece, it was really a "fiction" piece.

[ixnay]

MdTA, which operates the Maryland toll facilities, falls under MDOT.

Unlike the the PTC and the NJTA, which are separate from their respective states' DOTs.  Otherwise a certain interchange in Bucks County, PA would probably have been fully up and running a long time ago.  Same for I-295 being connected to the NJTP/PaTPK connector.

ixnay

[PHLBOS]

Where's Delaware (and for that matter, the Delaware River and Bay Authority [DE/NJ])?

I believe all toll facilities in Delaware have E-ZPass but not AETs that I'm aware of.

Where's the Delaware River Port Authority, the Burlington County Bridge Commission, and the Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission (all PA/NJ)?

E-ZPass, yes; AETs, no.

Otherwise a certain interchange in Bucks County, PA would probably have been fully up and running a long time ago.  Same for I-295 being connected to the NJTP/PaTPK connector.

I don't believe there was ever a plan for an interchange directly linking I-295 to the Turnpike Connector.  Given I-295's close proximity to the Connector's interchange with the mainline NJ Turnpike (which was just recently expanded); such would have taken up too much real estate in the immediate region; especially since the nearby US 130 interchange (unsigned Exit 6A) was (relatively recently) upgraded to a full-blown, dual-trumpet interchange 2 decades ago.

[vdeane]

Delaware and West Virginia slipped my mind there.  Added, though it's only a minor change to the results.  MDTA strikes me as a sub-agency (like NYSDOT's regions), so it would appear to have more in common with the separate authorities than not (ex: still has top brass), but in the spirit of giving the newspaper every advantage possible to make a point, I counted it as DOT.

I wasn't really getting down into the weeds with listing every little bridge authority (the NY list would be very long if I did, for example) and instead focused on the old turnpikes; that said, if all a state had was a bridge (ex: Kentucky) or some other little thing, I counted it.

[MASTERNC]

That article is so full of BS it's not even funny.  They keep talking about how the surrounding states are AET and don't have separate toll authorities.  Let's take a look at the surrounding states.  Heck, let's add in the rest of the IAG!

New York: Mostly not AET, various authorities
Vermont: No tolls
New Hampshire: Not AET, NHDOT
Maine: Not AET, Maine Turnpike Authority
Massachusetts: implementing AET, Mass Turnpike Authority prior to merger with MassHighway
Rhode Island: AET, RIDOT
Connecticut: No tolls
New Jersey: Not AET (was investigating), New Jersey Turnpike Authority and Atlantic City Expressway
Pennsylvania: Implementing partial AET, Pennsylvania Turnpike Authority
Ohio: Not AET (not even E-ZPass until recently), Ohio Turnpike Authoirty
Indiana: Not AET, separate authority prior to privatization
Illinois: Not AET, separate authority
Delaware: Not AET (will be mixed with US 301), DOT?
Maryland: Some AET, MDTA (under MDSHA)
Virginia: Some AET, mix VDOT/TransUrban
North Carolina: AET, DOT?
West Virginia: Not AET, separate authority
Kentucky: Will be AET, DOT?
Ontario: AET, mix MTO and 407 ETR
Québec: Partially AET, public private partnerships

From the signage presented in the plans (see Section 3 on the below website), the new US 301 toll road in Delaware will be AET.  I know the flyover video shows conventional toll booths though.

http://deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/index.shtml#horizontalTab2

[PHLBOS]

Bold emphasis added to below-quote:

From the signage presented in the plans (see Section 3 on the below website), the new US 301 toll road in Delaware will be AET.

Key words will be.  As mentioned earlier, none of Delaware's existing toll facilities I'm aware of have AETs; although most (the Delaware Memorial Bridge being an exception) do have E-ZPass Express lanes that could be converted to such in the future.

[vdeane]

Plus I know of no plans to convert I-95 or DE 1 to AET.

[mariethefoxy]

Route 1 would be quite easy since the high speed lanes are already there, just need to do it for the ramp tolls which have slow speed ezpass lanes.

[cpzilliacus]

That article is so full of BS it's not even funny.  They keep talking about how the surrounding states are AET and don't have separate toll authorities.  Let's take a look at the surrounding states.  Heck, let's add in the rest of the IAG!

Delaware: Not AET (will be mixed with US 301), DOT?

I think U.S. 301 is planned to be all-AET now. Delaware toll roads are run as part of DelDOT (currently just I-95 at the Maryland border and Delaware 1 (Relief Route))

Pennsylvania: Implementing partial AET, Pennsylvania Turnpike Authority

The only AET so far is entering the East-West Mainline of the Turnpike from the New Jersey Turnpike, but the PTC has said they are going to transition to cashless across the entire PTC network, and they are in the process of hiring contractor(s) to build the cashless toll collection system.

Maryland: Some AET, MDTA (under MDSHA)

MDTA uses SHA standards for most things, and they have the same personnel system, but they are entirely independent of SHA (the state considers MDTA to be an "unbudgeted" agency, which means it usually does not get tax dollars). MDTA is run by an independent board, which is chaired by the Secretary of the Maryland Department of Transportation.

MDTA has the ICC (200), which has been all-AET since inception, as have the I-95 Express Toll Lanes north of Baltimore. Conversion to AET is being actively considered (I believe the Francis Scott Key Bridge on the Baltimore Beltway (Md. 695 (signed as I-695)) has been high on the list for a conversion to AET, but members of the General Assembly raised objections for reasons not clear to me.

There are two small privately-owned toll crossings of the Potomac River (White's Ferry and the Oldtown Bridge far upstream), they are cash only.

Virginia: Some AET, mix VDOT/TransUrban

Virginia has a hodgepodge.  When I say owned by private owners, I believe that means owned by VDOT, but maintained and operated by a private concession company. I think this list is all of them:

• There's Transurban that runs the 95Express and 495Express HOV/Toll lanes in Northern Virginia;
• The Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority (MWAA) runs the Dulles Toll Road (Va. 267);
• The west extension into Loudoun County is run by the private TRIP II, Limited Partnership (the tolled ramps are credit card or E-ZPass only);
• The Coleman Bridge (U.S. 17) over the York River is run by VDOT;
• The Downtown Expressway (Va. 195) is run by the Richmond Metropolitan Authority (RMA), which is public-sector;
• The Boulevard Bridge (Va. 161) over the James River is also run by the RMA;
  
• The Powhite Parkway (Va. 76) is run partly by RMA, and partly by VDOT;
• The Pocahontas Parkway (Va. 895) crossing the James River is also Transurban;
• The Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel (U.S. 13) is run by the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel District (public-sector toll agency);
• The South Norfolk Jordan Bridge (Va. 337) over the Elizabeth River is owned by Figg Bridge Developers; and
• The Elizabeth River crossings (Midtown Tunnel, U.S. 58 and Downtown Tunnel, I-264) are jointly owned by Skanska and Macquarie.

So, basically, the article is full of shit.  The toll roads are overwhelmingly not AET, and a little under half don't have a separate public authority, and almost all of the latter are newer toll roads, and not part of the old Turnpikes; if we eliminated the Canadian provinces and the southern states with newer toll roads, it wouldn't even be a contest.

The only AET so far among the legacy Eastern Turnpike Complex (all of which takes E-ZPass) is at the east end of the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

[vdeane]

I think U.S. 301 is planned to be all-AET now. Delaware toll roads are run as part of DelDOT (currently just I-95 at the Maryland border and Delaware 1 (Relief Route))

"Mixed" as in mix of AET and booths, not as in ORT lanes.  I've edited the post to use less ambiguous but more awkward phrasing since everyone seems to be getting confused.  Also corrected Maryland AGAIN (shouldn't have listened to the people claiming MDTA was under MDSHA...).

[froggie]

The Pocahontas Parkway (Va. 895) crossing the James River is also Transurban;

Not anymore.  Transurban walked away from 895 almost 3 years ago.  It's run by some entity called DBi Services now.

The South Norfolk Jordan Bridge (Va. 337) over the Elizabeth River is owned by Figg Bridge Developers

It should be noted that this bridge is AET.

The Elizabeth River crossings (Midtown Tunnel, U.S. 58 and Downtown Tunnel, I-264) are jointly owned by Skanska and Macquarie.

Still owned by VDOT.  Are operated by the ERC consortium.

Also, two others that you missed:  both the Chesapeake Expressway (VA 168) and the Steel Bridge (US 17) are owned by the city of Chesapeake.

[mrsman]

I am very highly in favor of AETs, so long as those without transponders are treated fairly.

In many places, those without transponders are charged an exorbitant penalty for using an all electronic facililty.  This is wrong.  Not everybody is a regular traveler and may not have a local transponder. The fee for driving without a transponder should be no more than double the regular toll rate.

Eventually, we will have a national interoperable toll transponder.  Hopefully those will not charge any monthly fees. 

[cl94]

I am very highly in favor of AETs, so long as those without transponders are treated fairly.

In many places, those without transponders are charged an exorbitant penalty for using an all electronic facililty.  This is wrong.  Not everybody is a regular traveler and may not have a local transponder. The fee for driving without a transponder should be no more than double the regular toll rate.

Eventually, we will have a national interoperable toll transponder.  Hopefully those will not charge any monthly fees.

This. In much of the country, everything accepts E-ZPass, so even if you don't get a local discount, you wouldn't get the service fee. In New York, for example, you don't have much of an excuse for not having a transponder, because the New York service center only charges a fee if you have a Port Authority tag. Some of toll penalties for not having a tag are outrageous. Take 407 in Ontario. There's a $4.05/trip camera surcharge plus $3.75/month (which is equal to the monthly transponder fee). Even with the insane per km tolls, there are possible trips where the camera toll is more triple the regular toll rate. That is ludicrous and it is the reason why I refuse to use the road.