Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[andy]

I was able to get to the Martinsville meeting today.  Most of it was predictable.

They did state the plan is for various meetings and studies leading up to an FEIS in early 2018.  All recommendation were invited, but they stated the Tier one recommendation of the IN37 route will be carried forward until the FEIS is released. I suppose that will fire up the "fix is in" minded folks, but I suspect that is required by the nature of the two tier study process.

The moderator also acknowledged a lot of development has occurred in the 10 years since the Tier 1 study was completed.  Personally, I think those developers knew the risk, so I wouldn't shed a tear for them.

Much of the public comments for alternatives seemed to favor some variation of turning north at Martinsville and connection to I-70. I think I've seen that discussed somewhere.

The graphics (which hopefully will be posted on the INDOT site soon) indicated some type of double exchange at I-465 with a new one east of the existing one. One of the facilitators I talked to acknowledged the current interchange is troublesome as it exist now.

Also, there was an comment and acknowledgment that part of this alignment will have to be elevated to escape the 100 year flood plain.  This area has flooded recently (8 or 10 years ago??, I don't recall when).

Finally, there is significant construction on section 5 in the area of Sample Rd.

[NE2]

How would they deal with the at-grades and private driveways on IN 37?  Being from NY, new terrain interstate construction is the ONLY kind of interstate construction I'm familiar with.

NY 27 isn't an Interstate, but who cares?

[vdeane]

How would they deal with the at-grades and private driveways on IN 37?  Being from NY, new terrain interstate construction is the ONLY kind of interstate construction I'm familiar with.

NY 27 isn't an Interstate, but who cares?

Why is it that every time that I draw from my upstate experiences that Long Island managed to prove itself more different from the rest of the state that I could have possibly imagined?

[andy]

How would they deal with the at-grades and private driveways on IN 37?  Being from NY, new terrain interstate construction is the ONLY kind of interstate construction I'm familiar with.

NY 27 isn't an Interstate, but who cares?

Why is it that every time that I draw from my upstate experiences that Long Island managed to prove itself more different from the rest of the state that I could have possibly imagined?

I tend to agree that new terrain is almost always better, but this case may be one of those exceptions.
First, developers have known (should have) that this was coming for years.
Though it does have at grade intersections, IN-37 was built for relatively limited access.
Because it passes through flood plains, there are stretches that are not over-developed.
Even the developed areas as it approaches 465 are relatively lightly developed compared to anywhere else they can put it.
And finally, IN-37 should have been updated years ago.

Edit:

I forgot, for potential exchanges, see page 12 of this presentation;
http://www.in.gov/indot/projects/i69/files/I69_Section6_PublicScopingMeeting_022015.pdf

[silverback1065]

I never understood why after all these years the 465/37 interchange is still a diamond. 

[roadman65]

Something always

I never understood why after all these years the 465/37 interchange is still a diamond. 

Something always gets overlooked someplace.  This could be a result of this.

[Pete from Boston]

Something always

I never understood why after all these years the 465/37 interchange is still a diamond. 

Something always gets overlooked someplace.  This could be a result of this.

I think that's exactly it.

[vtk]

developers should have known better

The developers did know better, but they didn't care because for the most part they're not the ones who lose.  As I understand it, developers sell the land they develop (this is obvious in the context of houses) and then the buyer, who often isn't so well informed of the pending highway project at the time of purchase, has to fight the highway, litigate for fair compensation, and/or eventually eat the (sentimental if not financial) loss when the state takes the property.

[theline]

Edit:

I forgot, for potential exchanges, see page 12 of this presentation;
http://www.in.gov/indot/projects/i69/files/I69_Section6_PublicScopingMeeting_022015.pdf

Off the subject, but . . .
Am I interpreting the map right? Does it indicate that a future runway for Indy Int'l is planned for south of I-70? That's interesting.

[tdindy88]

When I-70 was rebuilt south of the airport I believe it was lowered a little bit so that a taxiway could be built to connect to this future runway if it ever happened.

[andy]

Off the subject, but . . .
Am I interpreting the map right? Does it indicate that a future runway for Indy Int'l is planned for south of I-70? That's interesting.

That's another thing I forgot to mention.  Yes, it does show a potential runway. Best I understand, the airport has purchased that land for a future runway. I know the weather service moved their radar a few years ago.

[thefro]

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150224/news/302249876/

Indiana House passed the bill to allow Section 6 in Perry Township by 81-11, moves to the Indiana Senate now.

I forgot, for potential exchanges, see page 12 of this presentation;
http://www.in.gov/indot/projects/i69/files/I69_Section6_PublicScopingMeeting_022015.pdf

SR 39 - Basically has to be there and I think it's fairly close to standards already.  Might need to get an exemption like with Walnut Street in Bloomington
Ohio Street - Will need access roads for some Martinsville businesses otherwise that are south of the Interstate, but the interchange would displace some businesses.  Could see this going either way.
SR 252 - Needed for sure, provides access to a few state highways
Egbert Rd - Maybe for future development?  But I couldn't even tell you where this is.
SR 144 -  Needed for access for Mooresville/Bargersville/Franklin
Smith Valley Road - Provides access to Greenwood & cut-through to I-65.  Easiest to fit an interchange in here of the 3 suburban exits
County Line Road - More Greenwood access to the N. Side and Greenwood Park Mall.
Southport Road - Fairly developed, but you'd be causing major traffic flow issues without an interchange here.

If you wanted to be cheap, you might be able to get away with only having exits at 2 out of the 3 of Smith Valley/County Line/Southport Road, but you probably need all 3 considering the growth of that area.

[billtm]

It looks like there is a gravel pit in the way where I-69 is supposed to connect to I-465.
Gravel pits that I've seen seem really deep. So would they build a bridge over it? Or are there ways to fill it up without making the ground the road is being paved over unstable?

[ARMOURERERIC]

I seem to recall from way back when the 164 was built over a trash pit, so U am sure there exists a methodology to handle it

[silverback1065]

It would be very expensive but they could do it

[jhuntin1]

If they could build I-80/294 over that huge open-pit mine south of Chicago, they could surely build I-69 over a gravel pit. Whether the interchange with I-465 ever gets build there or not is another question.

[Pete from Boston]

If they could build I-80/294 over that huge open-pit mine south of Chicago, they could surely build I-69 over a gravel pit. Whether the interchange with I-465 ever gets build there or not is another question.

That was the first thing I thought of, but I didn't know if the road was built through that quarry, or the quarry dug around it. 

[NE2]

Looks like the quarry existed but was a lot shallower when the Tri-State was built across it: http://historicaerials.com?layer=1962&zoom=16&lat=41.57946576098056&lon=-87.61736154556274

[theline]

Looks like the quarry existed but was a lot shallower when the Tri-State was built across it:
http://historicaerials.com?layer=1962&zoom=16&lat=41.57946576098056&lon=-87.61736154556274

Bad link, but fixed above. I always wondered about that quarry. Mystery solved.

[tdindy88]

The gravel pit is north of I-465, so the only thing that may go over it might be flyover ramps to connect with I-69 to the south. There's that lake south of the highway but that's about it.

[andy]

Any speculation why the presentation shows a second exchange on 465 being built east of the existing Harding St exchange?  Might this be an attempt to avoid the issues west of the existing interchange such as the gravel pit?

[silverback1065]

Any speculation why the presentation shows a second exchange on 465 being built east of the existing Harding St exchange?  Might this be an attempt to avoid the issues west of the existing interchange such as the gravel pit?

The original map showed an interchange west of harding St. I guess they changed it to being east of harding.

[billtm]

The gravel pit is north of I-465, so the only thing that may go over it might be flyover ramps to connect with I-69 to the south. There's that lake south of the highway but that's about it.

I'm pretty sure that lake used to be a gravel pit.

[Brandon]

Looks like the quarry existed but was a lot shallower when the Tri-State was built across it:
http://historicaerials.com?layer=1962&zoom=16&lat=41.57946576098056&lon=-87.61736154556274

Bad link, but fixed above. I always wondered about that quarry. Mystery solved.

It was shallower.  In addition, the MWRD has been making the Thornton Quarry deeper and larger as it need to be bigger to hold the water they intend to pump into it during storm events.  Imagine what the quarry will look like after the Deep Tunnel Project is complete and it is used for stormwater.  You'd be driving between what appear to be two large lakes on Tri-State.

[SW Indiana]

On another topic, I wonder when INDOT will repair the several BGS that blew down in Gibson county in November 2013? I traveled to Evansville today and noticed at least three are still missing, with at least one still laying on the ground. Going on a year and a half seems completely unreasonable to still not be repaired, imo.