Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[Pete from Boston]

That is a vague answer...

Does it mean those areas are truly protected or is it just a political stance?

I asked my boss and he said "waters of the us" is basically any drainage area that drains into a creek that eventually goes to a major waterway. He also said that definition has changed a lot over the recent years to be more broader in scope.  And that both signs are a part of the environmental process that has to be done.  they must be labeled and avoided during construction.

Strange.  So any waterway that does not end at the ocean but rather at another waterway?  There has to be a better way to say this than "waterway of the US."

Karst is clear enough.  Karst topography tends to be porous and thus water impacts in one area would presumably easily transmit to adjoining areas.

[silverback1065]

That is a vague answer...

Does it mean those areas are truly protected or is it just a political stance?

I asked my boss and he said "waters of the us" is basically any drainage area that drains into a creek that eventually goes to a major waterway. He also said that definition has changed a lot over the recent years to be more broader in scope.  And that both signs are a part of the environmental process that has to be done.  they must be labeled and avoided during construction.

Strange.  So any waterway that does not end at the ocean but rather at another waterway?  There has to be a better way to say this than "waterway of the US."

Karst is clear enough.  Karst topography tends to be porous and thus water impacts in one area would presumably easily transmit to adjoining areas.

I think it would include waterways that go to the ocean.  He also said the old definition he believed was any labeled blue line (waterway) on the usgs, which shows all drainage waterways (or at least they try to)

[thefro]

That is a vague answer...

Does it mean those areas are truly protected or is it just a political stance?

I asked my boss and he said "waters of the us" is basically any drainage area that drains into a creek that eventually goes to a major waterway. He also said that definition has changed a lot over the recent years to be more broader in scope.  And that both signs are a part of the environmental process that has to be done.  they must be labeled and avoided during construction.

Strange.  So any waterway that does not end at the ocean but rather at another waterway?  There has to be a better way to say this than "waterway of the US."

Karst is clear enough.  Karst topography tends to be porous and thus water impacts in one area would presumably easily transmit to adjoining areas.

I think it would include waterways that go to the ocean.  He also said the old definition he believed was any labeled blue line (waterway) on the usgs, which shows all drainage waterways (or at least they try to)

The EPA's site has more on the Clean Water Rule.  Basically any stream/river is covered that eventually feeds into a navigable waterway.

In Section 5's case, SR 37/future I-69 crosses several creeks and the like that feed into Bloomington's water supply

The "Waters of the US" wording is because that's what the language is in the original Clean Water Act and there's been various court fights as to what that actually covers (and will be another one over the new EPA rule).

[vtk]

The EPA's site has more on the Clean Water Rule.  Basically any stream/river is covered that eventually feeds into a navigable waterway.

So that's basically everywhere in the eastern half of the country, and much of the western half...

[theline]

We drove the Bloomington-Martinsville construction zone yesterday, and we also wondered at the odd "Waters of US" signs. I regret that we didn't get a picture. They were posted on temporary orange fencing, surrounding low-lying areas off the side of the road. We assumed that it had something to do with environmental concerns. I'd sure like to hear from someone who knows.

Edit: I don't know how I missed the several answers above to my question. Anyway, thanks for the info.

[ITB]

Construction photos: I-69, Section 4 [taken July 11, 2015]



Harmony Road bridge, Monroe County, IN (Section 4, Segment 8)



Looking west from Harmony Road bridge (Section 4, Segment 7)



Looking west from Burch Road bridge; in the distance are the Breeden Road and Indian Creek overpasses (Section 4, Segment 7)



Looking east from Burch Road bridge (Section 4, Segment 7)



Burch Road bridge, looking north (Section 4, Segment 7)



Mainline bridges over Indian Creek adjacent to Breeden Road, looking west (Section 4, Segment 7)



Mainline bridges over Breeden Road, looking north (Section 4, Segment 7)

[Revive 755]

Looking west from Harmony Road bridge (Section 4, Segment 7)

Pity they couldn't have designed that area with the NB and SB lanes on a slightly separate vertical alignment, possibly with a wider median in spots, and made it more scenic - similar to parts of I-64 across the southern half of Indiana.

[ITB]

More construction photos: I-69, Section 4 [taken July 11, 2015]:


Hobbieville Road bridge, Greene County, Indiana, looking northeast; Milestone Contractors LP (Section 4, Segment 5). Bridge deck pours have been completed.


I-69 mainline, looking northeast from Hobbieville Road bridge; Milestone Contractors LP (Section 4, Segment 5). Ready to rumble!


I-69 mainline under construction, looking south from Hobbieville Road bridge; Milestone Contractors LP (Section 4, Segment 5). Start me up!


Harmony Road bridge over I-69, looking south from Harmony Road; E. S. Wagner Co., contractor (Section 4, Segment 8). Getting ready for the big concrete pours.


The following photos were taken July 12, 2015:


I-69 mainline construction, looking west from the under construction Rockport Road overpasses; E. S. Wagner Co., contractor (Section 4, Segment 8). Looks about ready for subbase aggregate, which will probably be limestone from local quarries.


I-69 bridge construction over Rockport Road, looking south; E. S. Wagner Co., contractor (Section 4, Segment 8). Not much has happened here since January, as most likely, due to emergency vehicle access, the Harmony Road bridge needs to completed and opened before Rockport Road can be closed.

[silverback1065]

Is this ahead or behind schedule?

[ITB]

Is this ahead or behind schedule?

It's probably close to "on" schedule or a bit behind, as the recent rainy weather has been problematic, all the more so if it continues into the later weeks of July and early August.

On the plus side, almost all the bridges and overpasses are nearing completion, with the exception of the Rockport Road overpasses. Subbase material has been placed on the new 445 access road, so that's getting prepped for paving. Segment 1, from the 231 interchange to Taylor Ridge Road is virtually done, 93% complete as of June 12 according to INDOT's Contract and Construction Map. The long stretch of road between Harmony Road and Breeden Road is receiving subbase and base aggregate; paving is soon to occur if and when the weather dries up.

The two principal areas which seem behind schedule are shown in the above photos: (1) west of the Breenden & Indian Creek bridges, and (2) the stretches of road in and around Hobbieville Road. From what I gather, Milestone Contractors has been concentrating work in the vicinity of the State Road 45 interchange and State Road 54; now it will begin to shift northward toward Hobbieville Rd. That's why all the equipment is there now.

[Sykotyk]

Looking west from Harmony Road bridge (Section 4, Segment 7)

Pity they couldn't have designed that area with the NB and SB lanes on a slightly separate vertical alignment, possibly with a wider median in spots, and made it more scenic - similar to parts of I-64 across the southern half of Indiana.

The only way that would work now is if they were separated by quite a bit of space. If you had them at that alignment but one was 10-15-20 feet higher than the other, you get the 'flying car' problem if someone loses control on the upper roadway and careens down into the lower roadway.

Though, I do agree, it should be scenic for the terrain it passes through. Instead, it looks surprisingly bland.

[IndyAgent]

Thanks for the photo updates!

[qguy]

Pity they couldn't have designed that area with the NB and SB lanes on a slightly separate vertical alignment, possibly with a wider median in spots, and made it more scenic - similar to parts of I-64 across the southern half of Indiana.

The only way that would work now is if they were separated by quite a bit of space. If you had them at that alignment but one was 10-15-20 feet higher than the other, you get the 'flying car' problem if someone loses control on the upper roadway and careens down into the lower roadway.

If that were true, no one would build freeways with a terraced profile. But there a plenty of examples of this in my home state of Pennsylvania alone. A few that come to mind are I-80 east of US 220, I-81 north of the I-78 junction, US 15 (Future I-99) in many areas between Williamsport and the NY state line, I-99 southwest of State College, US 22/322 between Dauphin and the Susquehanna River, US 22/322 between US 11/15 and Thompsontown, US 22/322 through the Lewistown Narrows (just east of Lewistown and featuring a 2½-mile-long retaining wall, the longest in the US and second-longest in the world).

PennDOT is even currently building a terraced stretch in an area of US 322 southeast of State College that they're upgrading from two lanes at grade to four lanes of freeway (the Potters Mills Gap project).

Some of these examples have no median width beyond a narrow shoulder but do feature tall Jersey-type median barriers. Others have medians with earthen slopes and W-beam guiderails. None have large median widths. So I'm not sure what the consternation is.

[RoadWarrior56]

I suspect that the  I-69 extension is designed the way it is due to cost considerations.  Based on a documentary I saw a couple of years ago before the initial 3 sections opened to traffic, there was extensive Value Engineering analysis done on the corridor, which included constructing a narrower median, not initially constructing some originally-planned exits, and using a slightly thinner pavement section.  Without any inside knowledge, I suspect that the median is the way it is so as to save on right-of-way, and hence cost.

[hbelkins]

I'm guessing there were valid engineering reasons for building I-64 the way it was. Personally, I'm no fan of the wide, wooded medians. Too many places for deer and cops to hide.

[ITB]

Google has updated its maps for Bloomington and vicinity. The new satellite view, dated May 18, 2015, extends just beyond where Harmony Road crosses the I-69 footprint west of Bloomington.

Items of interest include the construction of the new Rockport Road bridge over SR 37; the I-69 SR 37 intersection; the I-69 bridges over Bolin Lane; the bridges over the unnamed tributary to Clear Creek just south of Bolin Lane; the Tramway Road overpasses; the bridges crossing Happy Creek south of Tramway Road; the Lodge Road overpasses; and the early construction of Harmony Road bridge, then only piers (now ready for concrete deck pours).

Of note, as well, is the methodical process taken by E. S. Wagner Co., the contractor for Section 4, Segment 8, as it chews (blasts?) away at the rock in the curve just south of the Happy Creek bridges.

More pics to come!

[silverback1065]

I suspect that the  I-69 extension is designed the way it is due to cost considerations.  Based on a documentary I saw a couple of years ago before the initial 3 sections opened to traffic, there was extensive Value Engineering analysis done on the corridor, which included constructing a narrower median, not initially constructing some originally-planned exits, and using a slightly thinner pavement section.  Without any inside knowledge, I suspect that the median is the way it is so as to save on right-of-way, and hence cost.

that's exactly what they did, they looked everywhere to save money!

[ITB]

Let's go to the pics!

I-69, Section 4 construction [photos taken July 12, 2015]:


[Looking east] I-69 bridges over Bolin Lane in Monroe County; Crider & Crider, contractor (Section 4, Segment 9). Complete!


Looking south from Bolin Lane overpasses to the mainline I-69 bridges crossing unnamed tributary to Clear Creek; Monroe County, Indiana; Crider & Crider, contractor (Section 4, Segment 9). Note the dividing line between Segment 8 and Segment 9 just beyond the bridges. Segment 8 contractor E. S. Wagner Co. appears to be laying subbase aggregate in preparation for paving.


I-69 overpasses crossing Tramway Road in Monroe County, looking east; E. S. Wagner Co., contractor (Section 4, Segment 8); Complete!


Another view of the Tramway Road overpasses, looking northeast.


From the Tramway Road overpasses looking south to the mainline bridges crossing Happy Creek, a tributary to Clear Creek; Monroe County, Indiana; E. S. Wagner Co., contractor (Section 4, Segment 8). Ready to go!


The Happy Creek bridges from the vantage point of Tramway Road, looking southeast.


Field office on Tramway Road for contractor E. S. Wagner Co.

More pics to come, including Section 5.

[DeaconG]

The construction looks like it's progressing quite well.  Excellent shots!

[Henry]

I'm really impressed by the progress being made on the extension. Can't wait to see the work getting started on the remainder into Indy!

[iBallasticwolf2]

I'm really impressed by the progress being made on the extension. Can't wait to see the work getting started on the remainder into Indy!

Anyone want to take a guess what the new interchange between I-69 and (unknown interstate!) is going to look like? I hope it is a windmill or a modern Y!

[mukade]

OPINION: I-69 - opening a road to progress  (Indiana Econmic Digest)

[iBallasticwolf2]

OPINION: I-69 - opening a road to progress  (Indiana Econmic Digest)

The person named "Neither" in the article sounds like a NIMBY.

[silverback1065]

My god, I swear I hate NIMBYs, if you're against something, be against it for actual reasons!! Not bullshit! "I liked SR 57/67 to Evansville" you're about the only person that did, and besides both roads are still there! Nimbys only care about themselves and no one else, and that's why I can't stand them!
This road will help out everyone in the area whether they like it or not.

[andy]

I don't know about the thrill  of passing trucks up hill. There was only a brief relief before waiting behind another. Only now can 57 be a relaxing drive.

'Niether' sounds more like 'what's in it for me'. But the article also sounds like bait for a hit piece next week.