Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[I-39]

I think they are going thru the motions of looking at other routes. But Section 6 will be on IN37 most of us think.

Only new build stuff should be where IN37 connects to I 465. That section is a cluster anyway.

I don't see where they would put the I-69 system interchange with the I-465 beltway without destroying a TON of buildings.

[andy]

I think they are going thru the motions of looking at other routes. But Section 6 will be on IN37 most of us think.

Only new build stuff should be where IN37 connects to I 465. That section is a cluster anyway.

I don't see where they would put the I-69 system interchange with the I-465 beltway without destroying a TON of buildings.

I'm not sure it would be a TON of buildings.  Starting at the eastward curve less than a mile from I465 and swerving westward instead, there is a collection of lots which should be relatively easy to displace.  Also, I think the water bodies (old sand quarries?) are relatively shallow and could be filled in.
Pan north from https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6846385,-86.2019463,827m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en.

I expect many more building will be condemned building grade separations and frontage roads on the rest of the road.

[davewiecking]

I don't see where they would put the I-69 system interchange with the I-465 beltway without destroying a TON of buildings.

Looks like a slew of warehouses, a motel with empty parking lots, some fast food restaurants, and lakes that used to be sand pits. Not exactly the kind of thing that would stand in the way of congressionally-mandated Progress.

[noelbotevera]

I don't see where they would put the I-69 system interchange with the I-465 beltway without destroying a TON of buildings.

Looks like a slew of warehouses, a motel with empty parking lots, some fast food restaurants, and lakes that used to be sand pits. Not exactly the kind of thing that would stand in the way of congressionally-mandated Progress.

"Sssh. It's the sound of progress my friend." -Team Fortress 2 Medic

[tdindy88]

I just drove by that area an hour ago, it's basically all trucking-based businesses and parking lots with trucks in them. Nothing that would probably be considered historic or worth preservation.

[mukade]

I don't see where they would put the I-69 system interchange with the I-465 beltway without destroying a TON of buildings.

I'm not sure it would be a TON of buildings. 

I thought the majority of the properties to be taken were going to be where I-69 will meet the existing SR 37, not at I-465.

I believe I read the section of the new US 31 freeway just south of the South Bend bypass took over 100 buildings. Whether it was that high (or higher), INDOT took numerous houses and businesses to build all of the recent US 31 improvements in Hamilton County, South Bend, and Kokomo, so I am sure they would be willing to take whatever is needed to build I-69.

[Moose]

It's mostly a shallow gravel pit lake.

There is a crane rental lot up by the interstate, and a dealer selling trucks.

There are five businesses south of Epler that may need to be moved if they couldn't jig the ramps around them.

[Henry]

It's mostly a shallow gravel pit lake.

There is a crane rental lot up by the interstate, and a dealer selling trucks.

There are five businesses south of Epler that may need to be moved if they couldn't jig the ramps around them.

Pretty much what I imagined anyway. But why would they leave in the surface part of IN 37 instead of converting that into a freeway? IMHO, it would've made more sense than having that tie into a new alignment less than a mile to the west.

[Moose]

Have you seen the truck traffic at that interchange? It's heavy, and little to none of that traffic uses IN37 south. That intersection is THE major truck stop for Indy. That and there ar some truck terminals off Harding north of i465.

It's a huge frustration for people use IN37 south. Probably costs me 7mins on my commute.

Separating the i69 traffic from those truck stopping at Harding street will be better for everyone.

[Henry]

Have you seen the truck traffic at that interchange? It's heavy, and little to none of that traffic uses IN37 south. That intersection is THE major truck stop for Indy. That and there ar some truck terminals off Harding north of i465.

It's a huge frustration for people use IN37 south. Probably costs me 7mins on my commute.

Separating the i69 traffic from those truck stopping at Harding street will be better for everyone.

I guess you're right.

[silverback1065]

the only issue would be weaving problems due to proximity, but I have no idea the spacing, so it may not be an issue at all

[lordsutch]

It's close enough, and the I-69 traffic will be going fast enough, that they'll probably need either a C/D setup (if they don't have include direct access to existing SR 37) or braided ramps. Either way that big truck stop will probably have to give up most of its back parking area.

If they shifted it a bit to the west it might end up being cheaper if they can figure out how to avoid a C/D setup, even though there'd be more "new terrain" construction.

[tdindy88]

I would guess that a possible design for the interchange (besides the ones posted on the study website that are probably not etched in stone) could be similar to that of I-74 and I-465 on the west side with Crawfordsville Road standing in for Harding Street. Change the angle of 74 from 465 with that of 69 coming south off of 465 and make the ramps for Harding Street still wide for truck traffic and that could be a decent design.

[ITB]

I recall seeing two INDOT prepared renderings for the proposed I-69/I-465 interchange, and both were rather extensive. The quarries, the flyovers, etc. There are indeed issues incorporating C/D lanes involving SR 37. I have no idea how INDOT will ultimately resolve the complexity, but the I-69 interchange has all the makings to be very expensive. Then again, there's a LOT of interstate interchanges, in Indiana and elsewhere, that are quite involved.

A few days ago, I briefly reviewed the methodology INDOT is using to select the final Section 6 alignment. All potential I-69 alignments are based on Section 6 being six lanes (three in each direction) the entire way from Martinsville to I-465 or I-70. Maybe this was just for modeling, but it was surprising. Even in 2045, which is the date INDOT is projecting out to, are six lanes truly necessary between Martinsville and SR 144?

As for the segment of Section 6 that will pass through Marion County and northern Johnson County, it is my hope that INDOT really makes an effort to narrow the ROW and to spare taking land whenever possible. The added third lanes probably can be carved out of the median with a median barrier wall installed, like is being done in Bloomington. It might also be possible to have this part of road declared "urban" (or whatever) by the FHWA, resulting in a modification of ROW requirements. Is there such an "urban" FHWA definition? Probably not. But a lot interstates go through built up areas, and the ROW seems much narrower than what is found in rural settings. Perhaps side barrier walls can be used. Whatever. At any rate, INDOT could and should be pursuing every avenue with the FHWA to reduce the footprint of Section 6 in Marion and Johnson counties. Ultimately, however, no matter what alignment is chosen, some businesses and residences will be affected, and INDOT must ensure the owners are treated fairly and justly compensated.

Will Section 6 follow SR 37 to I-465? Probably. Based on population growth alone, State Road 37 is bound to be upgraded at some point to a limited access road with interchanges. That in itself is a crucial argument for bringing I-69 up SR 37. Why have an upgraded SR 37 and a completely separate routing for I-69 just to the west? It just doesn't make sense. And for those who think SR 37 will be OK as it is despite future increases in population and growing density, think again. Not too long ago in Bloomington, there were no interchanges on SR 37; now there are three. Soon, because of I-69, there will be five, and no at grade crossings. Change happens. It's called progress.

[ITB]

Here's two pairs of photos that show the progress of I-69 near W. Carter Road in Monroe County, Indiana.

E & B Paving is the prime contractor for this segment. They have done a remarkable job with the earth work, and it looks like paving is soon forthcoming. E & B still has to pave up the the roundabouts and ramps for I-69/SR 445 interchange, so a considerable amount of work remains. But I'm very impressed with the pace and quality of their work.

I-69 coming around from Breeden Road in Monroe County, Indiana, toward the I-69/SR 445 interchange; from near W. Carter Road, looking north.


August 23, 2015


September 27, 2015


Looking south from near W. Carter Road in Monroe County, Indiana, toward the I-69/SR 445 interchange.


August 23, 2015


September 27, 2015

In the last photo, take note of the sub-base aggregate that has been laid for the southbound lanes. They only had about 200 yards to go before connecting up with the road base near the SR 445 interchange.

[ITB]

Let's get to some Section 5 photos. Section 5 of Indiana's I-69 Project runs from the I-69/State Road 37 interchange just south of Bloomington, Indiana, to near the State Road 37/State Road 39 interchange, just south of Martinsville, Indiana. The prime contractor for Section 5 is I-69 Development Partners/Isolux. Photos were taken October 4, 2015, unless otherwise noted.


The overpass that will carry Kinser Pike over State Road 37/future Interstate 69 in Monroe County, Indiana; looking northwest. Photo was taken September 22, 2015.


Working on the western MSE [Mechanically Stabilized Earth] wall of the Kinser Pike overpass. September 23, 2015.


Another view of the work on the MSE wall at Kinser Pike. September 23, 2015.


The precast concrete Con/Span® bridge that will carry Vernal Pike over N. Packinghouse Road in Monroe County, Indiana; looking west from near State Road 37. By design, the bridge does not properly align with Vernal Pike. Why this is so I do not know. Probably an engineering issue, but out of curiosity I'll check into it.


Another view of the Con/Span® bridge; looking slightly northwest. Con/Span® is a product of Contech Engineered Solutions, whose headquarters is located in West Chester, OH. The various components that make up the precast bridge are fabricated off site then trucked in and assembled. September 22, 2015.


The work site at Vernal Pike, just west of State Road 37; looking north. The Con/Span® bridge (not visible) is located to the left. September 23, 2015.


One last view of the Con/Span® bridge at the Vernal Pike work zone; looking west from near State Road 37. Soon this unique perspective will be no longer. The road in the background is Vernal Pike in Monroe County, Indiana, just outside the city limits of Bloomington.

[noelbotevera]

Let's get to some Section 5 photos. Photos were taken October 4, 2015, unless otherwise noted.


The overpass that will carry Kinser Pike over Interstate 69 in Monroe County, Indiana; looking northwest. Photo was taken September 22, 2015.


Working on the western MSE [Mechanically Stabilized Earth] wall of the Kinser Pike overpass. September 23, 2015.


Another view of the work on the MSE wall at Kinser Pike. September 23, 2015.


The precast concrete Con/Span® bridge that will carry Vernal Pike over N. Packinghouse Road in Bloomington, Monroe County, Indiana; looking west from near State Road 37. By design, the bridge does not properly align with Vernal Pike. Why this is so I do not know. I'll check into it.


Another view of the Con/Span® bridge; looking slightly northwest. A product of Contech Engineered Solutions, the components that make up the bridge are fabricated off site then trucked in and assembled. September 22, 2015.


The work site at Vernal Pike west of State Road 37; looking north. The Con/Span® bridge is to the left.


One last view of the Con/Span® bridge. Soon this unique perspective will be no longer.

Where'd you end the photos at? Did you end just north of the Sample Road interchange?

[ITB]

Where'd you end the photos at? Did you end just north of the Sample Road interchange?

No. The first three photos were taken at the Kinser Pike/SR 37 overpass work zone in Monroe County, and the other four at the Vernal Pike work zone just outside Bloomington. I have made edits to the post above to clarify the specific locations where the photos were taken.

Although I've been to the Sample Road area, I've haven't taken any photos north of the Kinser Pike overpass. Maybe this weekend. We'll see. I don't think anything is happening at Sample Road right now, but some work might be occurring on nearby frontage roads.

[silverback1065]

Where'd you end the photos at? Did you end just north of the Sample Road interchange?

Although I've been to Sample Road area, I've haven't taken any photos north of the Kinser Pike overpass. Maybe this weekend. We'll see. I don't think anything is happening at Sample Road right now, but some work might be occurring on nearby frontage roads.

I think the reason it's 6 lanes now is because of an idea the contractor had that was cheap in price, and INDOT agreed. 

[mgk920]

It's mostly a shallow gravel pit lake.

There is a crane rental lot up by the interstate, and a dealer selling trucks.

There are five businesses south of Epler that may need to be moved if they couldn't jig the ramps around them.

Pretty much what I imagined anyway. But why would they leave in the surface part of IN 37 instead of converting that into a freeway? IMHO, it would've made more sense than having that tie into a new alignment less than a mile to the west.

As part of that, I'd remove and vacate the ROW of the diagonal part, redoing that area to directly feed that north-south street to the south (upgraded as necessary) into what is now the IN 37 interchange.

Mike

[Moose]

The traffic is pretty heavy at times. 3 lanes are more then justified. I drive the section 10 times a week. It can be murder on a Friday.

One thing they will have to consider, that I had not considered. Farm implement traffic.
Amazingly the local farmers still use IN 37 to move farm implements to and from the fields along IN 37. Obviously this won't be legal on I69. Would they have to reconnect the existing 2 lane segments left over from the previous IN 37 incarnation? Perhaps with the access roads needed, they may end up doing just that.

As you can imagine the Farm implements snarl up traffic REALLY bad.

One other thing. I really hope they intend to ease that grade coming out and in of Martinsville near the IN 44 and IN 252 interchanges, That hill is brutal and long.

A few days ago, I briefly reviewed the methodology INDOT is using to select the final Section 6 alignment. All potential I-69 alignments are based on Section 6 being six lanes (three in each direction) the entire way from Martinsville to I-465 or I-70. Maybe this was just for modeling, but it was surprising. Even in 2045, which is the date INDOT is projecting out to, are six lanes truly necessary between Martinsville and SR 144?

[Moose]

Also, I am working on a method to record the Section 5 construction with a youtube video of some manner.

There is a lot going on.

Quick update.

3rd Lane work in the median continues in the Bloomington Area.

No work at Sample Road

Vernal and Kinser Overpasses are progressing well.

Pavement work has FINALY been completed.

Ultity line relocation continues along the whole project, this is holding up a great many projects.

The access road bridge on old IN37 near martinsville is done.

Drainage work in the median near the very north end of the project is progressing well.

[bmeiser]

As part of that, I'd remove and vacate the ROW of the diagonal part, redoing that area to directly feed that north-south street to the south (upgraded as necessary) into what is now the IN 37 interchange.

Mike

That's a great idea, actually.  There's no direct access from 37 to any of those businesses between Harding St (that north-south street to the south) and where I-69 would continue north.  There's no sense in building an interchange to tie 37 into 69 there when traffic that needs to access those truck stops can just continue north on I-69 and exit at the Harding Street exit before continuing around 465.  Move Hardees and the Truckomat out of the way and straighten out Harding Street.  If that happens, it probably would be a good idea for the city to widen Harding since local traffic would surely increase.

[mgk920]

As part of that, I'd remove and vacate the ROW of the diagonal part, redoing that area to directly feed that north-south street to the south (upgraded as necessary) into what is now the IN 37 interchange.

Mike

That's a great idea, actually.  There's no direct access from 37 to any of those businesses between Harding St (that north-south street to the south) and where I-69 would continue north.  There's no sense in building an interchange to tie 37 into 69 there when traffic that needs to access those truck stops can just continue north on I-69 and exit at the Harding Street exit before continuing around 465.  Move Hardees and the Truckomat out of the way and straighten out Harding Street.  If that happens, it probably would be a good idea for the city to widen Harding since local traffic would surely increase.

You shouldn't even have to move anything to straighten out that intersection with Harding St, the street doesn't have to be arrow-straight.

I'd suggest this to INDOT and see what they say.



Mike

[The Ghostbuster]

How long before we construction in the Indianapolis area? I'd say 2025 at the earliest.