Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[silverback1065]

Does AASHTO standards still allow for "TEMPORARY" designations on interstates (e.g.  TEMPORARY I-69 from Charlotte to Perry, Michigan from 1973-91)?   The gap along SR 37 between Bloomington and Indianapolis, once the stretch from US-231 to SR 37 opens, and its status as a divided highway makes it logical candidate to be signed as such. 

This might also accelerate the signing of I-69 along I-465 (even though INDOT should have already done so at least from the I-465/I-65 junction on the Indianapolis southside up to existing I-69 once it was approved to assist motorists travelling north find it easier, imho).

I'm sure they could easily do "TO I-69" or "Future I-69"

[tdindy88]

Well, that is sort of what they did to SR 45 between US 231 and SR 37 over the past couple of years, provide "TO I-69" signs to guide traffic from Bloomington to Crane. Though I kind of wonder if the gap will still be too big for them to want to sign it that way. I wouldn't see INDOT taking such signage seriously until Section 5 is complete, where the gap from Martinsville to Indy is more manageable to send the message about following SR 37 for I-69.

[Henry]

I think the last TEMP Interstate was I-77 that followed I-20 and I-26 around Columbia, SC until 1996. I think that those were phased out in favor of FUTURE CORRIDOR signs, such as the nonsensical I-73/I-74 ones in the Southeast.

[thefro]

I think signage makes more sense to cover the gap between Evansville and the newly signed section of I-69 on the Pennyrile Parkway in Kentucky.  That's a fairly short route at this point that will be a gap for several years (at the least).

[Mapmikey]

I think the last TEMP Interstate was I-77 that followed I-20 and I-26 around Columbia, SC until 1996. I think that those were phased out in favor of FUTURE CORRIDOR signs, such as the nonsensical I-73/I-74 ones in the Southeast.

I-74 TEMP was officially requested by NCDOT in April 1996 to run from I-40 Winston-Salem north along US 52 to SR 1840 which is roughly where the Northern Winston-Salem Beltway would be built. The idea is that I-74 would follow US 52 through Winston-Salem until the eastern half of the northern beltway could be constructed and assigned as I-74.
AASHTO turned down this request and suggested NCDOT sign this as TO I-74.

Mike

[Revive 755]

To me, using TEMP over TO would be better.  Assuming I was unfamiliar with I-69, seeing TO I-69 while on I-69 (in the case of a temporary trumpet or cloverleaf) or while exiting I-69 would be confusing and make me think the DOT messed up.  Seeing TEMP I-69 would make more sense.

The only advantage I see with TO is that the signs can be reused in a lot more places after the interstate is completed.

[RoadWarrior56]

I suspect that the TEMP designation for I-69 would be more likely to be approved if the underlying state or US route had been decommissioned and the Interstate route would be taking over that roadway by itself for a period of years.  That was the case in California and Michigan where some US routes had already been decommissioned before completion of the interstate routes.

In the case of Henderson, KY, US 41 already exists on that corridor, has for deacades and will not be decommissioned.  For that reason, I would never expect to see a TEMP designation used for I-69, much less approved.  I figure you will be lucky to even see trailblazer signs through that gap with TO above it for a number of years.

[Henry]

I suspect that the TEMP designation for I-69 would be more likely to be approved if the underlying state or US route had been decommissioned and the Interstate route would be taking over that roadway by itself for a period of years.  That was the case in California and Michigan where some US routes had already been decommissioned before completion of the interstate routes.

In the case of Henderson, KY, US 41 already exists on that corridor, has for deacades and will not be decommissioned.  For that reason, I would never expect to see a TEMP designation used for I-69, much less approved.  I figure you will be lucky to even see trailblazer signs through that gap with TO above it for a number of years.

Agreed on that!

[silverback1065]

i-69 section 4 drone footage from indot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41Pqh2DHsK4&feature=youtu.be

[hockeyjohn]

I suspect that the TEMP designation for I-69 would be more likely to be approved if the underlying state or US route had been decommissioned and the Interstate route would be taking over that roadway by itself for a period of years.  That was the case in California and Michigan where some US routes had already been decommissioned before completion of the interstate routes.

In the case of Henderson, KY, US 41 already exists on that corridor, has for deacades and will not be decommissioned.  For that reason, I would never expect to see a TEMP designation used for I-69, much less approved.  I figure you will be lucky to even see trailblazer signs through that gap with TO above it for a number of years.

In the case of TEMPORARY I-69 in Michigan, it was co-signed with US-27 from Charlotte to Lansing; co-signed on various stretches of I-96, US-127 and M-43 around Lansing; but by itself along the former stretch of M-78 from Lansing to Perry.

Not being familiar with the California situation, how was it signed?

Does anyone know if stretches of TEMPORARY I-85 and I-95 in North Carolina along US-29 and US-301, respectively, were signed in the 1970s and 1980s before the permanent highway was completed?

[TheStranger]

Not being familiar with the California situation, how was it signed?

I recall that former US 395 south of Riverside was signed as "TEMP I-15E" (before that designation was replaced in 1982 with temporary State Route 215, before becoming today's I-215).

Route 99 between Stockton and Sacramento was TEMP I-5 on maps during the time that the West Side Freeway between those two cities was still under construction - I have never seen any photos of how this was signed though.

[Mapmikey]

Does anyone know if stretches of TEMPORARY I-85 and I-95 in North Carolina along US-29 and US-301, respectively, were signed in the 1970s and 1980s before the permanent highway was completed?

I-85 TEMP was signed along US 29-70.

US 301 through Fayetteville was as best I remember signed as To I-95 and US 301 through Wilson/Rocky Mount was also To I-95 though I'm pretty certain I've at least seen a stray 95 TEMP posting.  US 301 had many more at-grades and wasn't even an expressway in many portions on the Wilson/Rocky Mount portion.

Mike

[RoadWarrior56]

Sections of former US 395 between San Bernadino and San Diego were signed as Temp I-15 or Temp I-15E, at least based on what was shown on maps from the 1970's.

[EngineerTM]

Today in Bloomington, IN was a conference regarding economic development along the new I-69 corridor.  During that conference, INDOT provided a brief drone video showing the present construction along I-69 Section 4.  The drone recorded this video in late October of this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41Pqh2DHsK4&feature=youtu.be

INDOT reported that they anticipate opening Section 4 of I-69 by mid-December, but didn't give the actual date.  Pretty neat video - it flies over most of the construction and then pans around many of the major bridges and interchanges.

[Big John]

^^ until the end where there was  a I-465 shield in clearview.

[oscar]

Sections of former US 395 between San Bernadino and San Diego were signed as Temp I-15 or Temp I-15E, at least based on what was shown on maps from the 1970's.

I was there in the 1970s. So were those signs, at least the Temp I-15 ones.

[andy]

A co-worker has notice the mixing plant at the SR45 interchange is gone and the yellow lines painted.

Also, the SR37 North has moved to its final alignment, though it is still restricted to one lane.  I expect that will persist for a while due to the section 5 construction.

Finally, Bloomington radio was saying the road will be open before New Year's, but still no announced opening day.  There will be continuing finish up work well into next year, but that is no surprise.

Things are moving along.

[andy]

I was able to check several places along section 4 today. It looks like opening should be getting close. 

There is still a fair bit of BGS work, but I think the real tell on opening will be when the I69N/ SR37N intersection gets striped and any necessary lane restrictions for flowing into section 5 construction.
Unfortunately I don't go through there often.

[thefro]

I think it may have already been posted a couple months ago, but INDOT has public meetings this week to discuss the Section 6 route
http://www.wfyi.org/news/articles/indot-to-discuss-final-leg-of-i-69-at-three-public-meetings

INDIANAPOLIS--The Indiana Department of Transportation will hold the first of three public open houses to be held this week about the final leg of the Interstate 69 extension at Perry Meridian High School in Indianapolis Monday night.

INDOT officials will explain five preliminary route options for Section 6, which will run from Martinsville to Indianapolis. The meeting is aimed at giving the public a closer look at the proposed options than they've had up until this point, says INDOT Public Involvement Specialist Lamar Holliday.

"They will be able to look at these routes in greater detail than they have in the past couple months, the overpasses, underpasses, the access and footprint of the interstate," Holliday says.

Doors will open for the forum at 6 p.m., followed by a presentation and public comment session in the Perry Meridian High School auditorium at 7 p.m.

The two other meetings hosted by INDOT this week will take place this Wednesday at Mooresville High School and this Thursday at Martinsville High School. Doors for those meetings will also open at 6 p.m. followed by a presentation and public comment session at 7 p.m.

[thefro]

INDOT has updated their website with newer, more detailed renderings of the five Section 6 preliminary alternatives.

These include the potential interchanges, grade separations, local access roads, etc for each route.

Here's the overview and the map for Route C (the alternative that mainly follows SR 37).

---

Also some Mooresville residents are really mad about the alternatives that are going to cut through to I-70

Mooresville residents Sherry Bush and Roberta Sharp walked into the gym already feeling frustrated.

"Well, one will go in front of my house and the other one could go behind my house so it's going to affect me either route they choose on the west side of Mooresville,"  said Bush.

"I just saw that they change one of the routes slightly so instead of going near me it's going right through my house,"  said Sharp.

The women started a group called The Greater Mooresville Advisory Committee.

Members said they are against the alternative routes cutting through the west and east side of their small town.

"Shocked and people are still being shocked by it,"  said Bush. "They still don't think it's going anywhere other than 37 like we've been told for the last ten to 15 years."

In addition to SR 37, INDOT is also considering four other alternative routes. The agency said it came up with the routes after receiving comments from residents at previous meetings. The agency asked them what other routes they would like to see outside of SR 37.

"There are some people who are for it and there are some people who are against it,"  said LaMar Holliday, INDOT public involvement specialist. "But essentially what we're looking at we want to get the public involved in this process."

INDOT said the routes would start on SR 37 in orange; the pink and green routes would go through Mann Road and connect through 465 near that exit. Routes in red and blue would go through Mooresville and connect to I-70.

"We all live here because it's small, it's out of the city, it's rural life and that will be gone,"  said Bush.

[silverback1065]

INDOT has updated their website with newer, more detailed renderings of the five Section 6 preliminary alternatives.

These include the potential interchanges, grade separations, local access roads, etc for each route.

Here's the overview and the map for Route C (the alternative that mainly follows SR 37).

---

Also some Mooresville residents are really mad about the alternatives that are going to cut through to I-70

Mooresville residents Sherry Bush and Roberta Sharp walked into the gym already feeling frustrated.

“Well, one will go in front of my house and the other one could go behind my house so it’s going to affect me either route they choose on the west side of Mooresville,” said Bush.

“I just saw that they change one of the routes slightly so instead of going near me it’s going right through my house,” said Sharp.

The women started a group called The Greater Mooresville Advisory Committee.

Members said they are against the alternative routes cutting through the west and east side of their small town.

“Shocked and people are still being shocked by it,” said Bush. “They still don’t think it’s going anywhere other than 37 like we’ve been told for the last ten to 15 years.”

In addition to SR 37, INDOT is also considering four other alternative routes. The agency said it came up with the routes after receiving comments from residents at previous meetings. The agency asked them what other routes they would like to see outside of SR 37.

“There are some people who are for it and there are some people who are against it,” said LaMar Holliday, INDOT public involvement specialist. “But essentially what we’re looking at we want to get the public involved in this process.”

INDOT said the routes would start on SR 37 in orange; the pink and green routes would go through Mann Road and connect through 465 near that exit. Routes in red and blue would go through Mooresville and connect to I-70.

“We all live here because it’s small, it’s out of the city, it’s rural life and that will be gone,” said Bush.

I'd be mad too, I really think the only logical solution is to follow 37 all the way, the 70 tie ins make no sense to me.  How is there no interchange at SR 44?  unless I'm looking at the map wrong, they'd be pulling a SR 61 in Vincennes or SR 160 in Salem.

[mgk920]

I most like alternative 'C', too.  It's nearly identical to what we discussed a couple of pages upthread and keeping things in the current corridor as much as possible makes to most overall sense.  Existing parts of the IN 37 'old' road are useful for maintaining local access, too.

Mike

[tdindy88]

I thought there was an option for an interchange that would serve both SR 252 and SR 44. That could still be considered, but given that SR 44 already has a random endpoint on the west side of Franklin, why not another unorthodox terminus for the other end? Looking at the Martinsville area, what happened with Ohio Street, I thought that was going to be another Martinsville exit. I look to Lebanon, a similar-sized town with an interstate wrapping around it in a manner unlike that of Martinsville and see that they have four exits there. One at Ohio Street to compliment the ones at SR 39 and SR 252 (and/or SR 44) would seem like a good solution for me, but I'm sure this stuff can still be hammered out, I'm sure INDOT's meeting in Martinsville will get some people talking about that.

[mukade]

I thought there was an option for an interchange that would serve both SR 252 and SR 44. That could still be considered, but given that SR 44 already has a random endpoint on the west side of Franklin, why not another unorthodox terminus for the other end? Looking at the Martinsville area, what happened with Ohio Street, I thought that was going to be another Martinsville exit. I look to Lebanon, a similar-sized town with an interstate wrapping around it in a manner unlike that of Martinsville and see that they have four exits there. One at Ohio Street to compliment the ones at SR 39 and SR 252 (and/or SR 44) would seem like a good solution for me, but I'm sure this stuff can still be hammered out, I'm sure INDOT's meeting in Martinsville will get some people talking about that.

I thought the same thing on Ohio Street and the previously-proposed single SR 44/SR 252 exit. I thought that was a great plan, and its too bad that got dropped. If Ohio Street does not get an interchange, then they're going to need an improved road connecting to SR 39. Is there a ramp from SB SR 39 to NB SR 37 (future) I-69 or SB SR 37 to NB SR 39? If not, the only services for I-69 in Martinsville would be at SR 252. That would seem to be a recipe for congestion there.

I'd be mad too, I really think the only logical solution is to follow 37 all the way, the 70 tie ins make no sense to me.  How is there no interchange at SR 44?  unless I'm looking at the map wrong, they'd be pulling a SR 61 in Vincennes or SR 160 in Salem.

While alternative C is fine, I would like alternative D also if a bypass from I-65 in Lebanon to I-69 were also built. That could effectively offload traffic bound for Nashville and points south from I-65 south of Indy.

[tdindy88]

there a ramp from SB SR 39 to NB SR 37 (future) I-69 or SB SR 37 to NB SR 39? If not, the only services for I-69 in Martinsville would be at SR 252. That would seem to be a recipe for congestion there.

There is, all movements from SR 37 to SR 39 are currently there.