Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[sparker]

69 is absolutely needed from indy to eville, it's absolutely unnecessary south of that.

It's worth extending I-69 to Memphis IMO, since it would link Indy to I-55 and New Orleans, allowing traffic traveling between those two cities to bypass Birmingham and Nashville, which would otherwise be encountered via the I-59/I-65 route.

Another bonus of the extension is that it made Future I-169 in KY possible, which will give Evansville an interstate connection to Nashville (via link to I-24).

Not really Memphis traffic can just take I-55 to I-155 to US 51 to I-24 to I-69 to Indianapolis. All of which are already freeways. You don't need another parallel interstate 20 miles east of I-55 down to Memphis. I am sure this route isn't much longer anyways. I always thought I-24 at Hopkinsville KY is the most logical southern end for I-69 instead of it turning west to meet I-24.

Gee -- I guess KYDOT spent millions on the Pennyrile/WKY interchange revisions for nothing!  At this point, second-guessing I-69 north of Memphis is pointless -- it may be a long haul, but it's gonna happen!  SW of there -- place your bets and settle in; it's going to be a bumpy ride!

[NE2]

Gee -- I guess KYDOT spent millions on the Pennyrile/WKY interchange revisions for nothing!

They did whether or not I-69 goes to Memphis.

[Anthony_JK]

69 is absolutely needed from indy to eville, it's absolutely unnecessary south of that.

It's worth extending I-69 to Memphis IMO, since it would link Indy to I-55 and New Orleans, allowing traffic traveling between those two cities to bypass Birmingham and Nashville, which would otherwise be encountered via the I-59/I-65 route.

Another bonus of the extension is that it made Future I-169 in KY possible, which will give Evansville an interstate connection to Nashville (via link to I-24).

Not really Memphis traffic can just take I-55 to I-155 to US 51 to I-24 to I-69 to Indianapolis. All of which are already freeways. You don't need another parallel interstate 20 miles east of I-55 down to Memphis. I am sure this route isn't much longer anyways. I always thought I-24 at Hopkinsville KY is the most logical southern end for I-69 instead of it turning west to meet I-24.

Ummm....no. At the very least, you need I-69 to go all the way to downtown Memphis, if only to provide an endpoint for northern I-269 and to avoid having travelers crossing the Mississippi River twice (via I-40 and I-155). I really don't think travelers going north from Memphis want to fight through traffic lights on US 61.


Alcatel_4060A

[dvferyance]

69 is absolutely needed from indy to eville, it's absolutely unnecessary south of that.

It's worth extending I-69 to Memphis IMO, since it would link Indy to I-55 and New Orleans, allowing traffic traveling between those two cities to bypass Birmingham and Nashville, which would otherwise be encountered via the I-59/I-65 route.

Another bonus of the extension is that it made Future I-169 in KY possible, which will give Evansville an interstate connection to Nashville (via link to I-24).

Not really Memphis traffic can just take I-55 to I-155 to US 51 to I-24 to I-69 to Indianapolis. All of which are already freeways. You don't need another parallel interstate 20 miles east of I-55 down to Memphis. I am sure this route isn't much longer anyways. I always thought I-24 at Hopkinsville KY is the most logical southern end for I-69 instead of it turning west to meet I-24.

Ummm....no. At the very least, you need I-69 to go all the way to downtown Memphis, if only to provide an endpoint for northern I-269 and to avoid having travelers crossing the Mississippi River twice (via I-40 and I-155). I really don't think travelers going north from Memphis want to fight through traffic lights on US 61.


Alcatel_4060A

I-269?

[thefro]

The Fullerton Pike interchange is going to open on Sunday (weather-permitting)

(BLOOMINGTON) - The I-69 Development Partners Team announces the closure of Tapp Road east of State Road 37 to construct roadway and interchange improvements.
The Fullerton Pike interchange is anticipated to open on Sunday, August 6, weather permitting. Upon opening of the interchange, Tapp Road will be closed east of State Route 37 from the intersection with State Road 37 to Deborah Drive.

Traffic accessing east Tapp Road from State Road 37 will be detoured to the Fullerton Pike interchange, east to Rockport, and then north to Tapp Road.

Traffic from Tapp Road seeking access to State Road 37 and Tapp Road west of State Road 37 will be detoured north on Rockport Road, north on S. Rogers Street, west on Patterson Drive, and west on Second Street.

The closure of Tapp Road east of State Road 37 will begin on or after August 6 and remain closed through May 2018.

Fullerton Pike will be closed west of State Road 37 from the intersection with Medical Park Boulevard to Sharon Drive. Traffic accessing west Fullerton Pike will be detoured to west Tapp Road.

The closure of Fullerton Pike west east of State Road 37 will begin on or after Sunday and remain closed through August.

Upon opening the interchange at Fullerton Pike, access from northbound State Road 37 to That Road and access from southbound State Road 37 to Shaw Road will be permanently eliminated. Access to That and Shaw Road will be obtained using the Fullerton Pike interchange, east to Rockport Road until the west side of Fullerton Pike is complete.

Access to That Road and State Road 37 will not be directed with route markers. Please plan alternate routes in regards to accessing State Road 37 or That Road prior to the closing date. Access to Shaw Road will be marked with alternate route signing until such time that Fullerton Pike is completely opened at which time, route markers will be removed.

The permanent elimination of access to That Road and Shaw Road from State Road 37 is anticipated to occur on or after Sunday, August 6.

Nice to see progress being made.

[Anthony_JK]

I-269?

Yes, I-269/TN 385, the proposed Memphis Outer Beltway. Unless you plan on extending TN 385 across the Mississippi River to meet I-55/I-555, you will need a northern terminus.

Plus, do you really want Memphis/Evansville/Indy traffic to have to negotiate through the already busy I-40 bridge to get to downtown Memphis?

Whatever you may think about I-69 south of Memphis, the segment between Memphis and Dyersburg is more than legitimate and needed.

[NE2]

I-269 is the tail wagging the dog.

[thefro]

The Bloomington Herald-Times confirms the Fullerton Pike interchange has opened (behind paywall, of course)

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/news/local/confusing-signs-at-new-fullerton-pike-interchange-frustrate-drivers/article_5fa8e1cb-c60a-5229-b0e6-190586431a2c.html

The Fullerton Pike and Ind. 37 interchange opened this week to confusion and frustration.

[silverback1065]

The Bloomington Herald-Times confirms the Fullerton Pike interchange has opened (behind paywall, of course)

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/news/local/confusing-signs-at-new-fullerton-pike-interchange-frustrate-drivers/article_5fa8e1cb-c60a-5229-b0e6-190586431a2c.html

The Fullerton Pike and Ind. 37 interchange opened this week to confusion and frustration.

what is the confusion and frustration about?

[bmeiser]

The Bloomington Herald-Times confirms the Fullerton Pike interchange has opened (behind paywall, of course)

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/news/local/confusing-signs-at-new-fullerton-pike-interchange-frustrate-drivers/article_5fa8e1cb-c60a-5229-b0e6-190586431a2c.html

The Fullerton Pike and Ind. 37 interchange opened this week to confusion and frustration.

what is the confusion and frustration about?

"Where's the stoplight!  I don't know how to interchange!  "

[ITB]

The Bloomington Herald-Times confirms the Fullerton Pike interchange has opened (behind paywall, of course)

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/news/local/confusing-signs-at-new-fullerton-pike-interchange-frustrate-drivers/article_5fa8e1cb-c60a-5229-b0e6-190586431a2c.html

The Fullerton Pike and Ind. 37 interchange opened this week to confusion and frustration.

what is the confusion and frustration about?

The confusion is the result of the interchange NOT YET linking into the street grid west of SR 37. Work is still ongoing to connect the interchange to W. Fullerton Road and S. Monroe Medical Park Blvd. From the interchange's west traffic roundabout, access to Monroe Hospital is possible, but to reach the medical offices across the street (S. Monroe Medical Park Blvd.) or Shaw Road vehicles–semis, buses, etc.–have been passing through the hospital's parking lot. It's a bizarre situation.

INDOT, apparently, wanted the SR 37/Fullerton Road interchange open, despite being not entirely completed. Why? Probably because they wanted work to begin at the SR 37/Tapp Road intersection. Remember, due to the requirement of maintaining access to Monroe Hospital, the Tapp Road/SR 37 intersection couldn't be closed, even partially, until the Fullerton Road interchange was opened. To complete Section 5 by the stipulated completion date–August 31, 2018–it was probably important to move forward at Tapp Road now, instead of in early fall.

Here's a map that illustrates the current situation. The red lines indicate the areas where construction is still underway. The hospital is the large structure with the black roof; the previously mentioned medical offices are across the street. The blue line represents the course some vehicles are taking to reach the medical offices, Shaw Road or Fullerton Road.


Courtesy Google Earth/Google Maps.

Edit: Revised map to include the blue line; minor wording edits.

[JREwing78]

Private enterprise does everything better! Hmmm, wait a minute...

Indiana Highway Gives "˜Black Eye' to Private Investment in Infrastructure
State selected Spanish construction company that quickly ran into financial trouble, leading to delays
https://www.wsj.com/articles/indiana-highway-gives-black-eye-to-private-investment-in-infrastructure-1502271003?mod=e2tw

At a time when Washington is promoting private investment in roads, bridges and other infrastructure, a 21-mile stretch of highway in Indiana provides what critics say is a cautionary tale.

The project, a partnership between the state and private investors, was signed by Vice President Mike Pence in 2014 when he was the state's governor. It is two years behind schedule and only 60% built. The state is in the process of taking it over and will have to issue debt to finish it.

"It became clear that the only way to ensure completion in a reasonable time frame would be to put it back under the state's control,"  said Stephanie Wilson, spokeswoman for current Republican Gov. Eric Holcomb. "As with any project, we must pivot and change course when needed. That's what we did here."

Asked about the failed partnership, vice presidential spokesman Mark Lotter said Mr. Pence "was proud of Indiana's many accomplishments during his tenure as governor"  including investments in infrastructure.

[GreenLanternCorps]

Private enterprise does everything better! Hmmm, wait a minute...

Indiana Highway Gives "˜Black Eye' to Private Investment in Infrastructure
State selected Spanish construction company that quickly ran into financial trouble, leading to delays
https://www.wsj.com/articles/indiana-highway-gives-black-eye-to-private-investment-in-infrastructure-1502271003?mod=e2tw

At a time when Washington is promoting private investment in roads, bridges and other infrastructure, a 21-mile stretch of highway in Indiana provides what critics say is a cautionary tale.

The project, a partnership between the state and private investors, was signed by Vice President Mike Pence in 2014 when he was the state's governor. It is two years behind schedule and only 60% built. The state is in the process of taking it over and will have to issue debt to finish it.

"It became clear that the only way to ensure completion in a reasonable time frame would be to put it back under the state's control,"  said Stephanie Wilson, spokeswoman for current Republican Gov. Eric Holcomb. "As with any project, we must pivot and change course when needed. That's what we did here."

Asked about the failed partnership, vice presidential spokesman Mark Lotter said Mr. Pence "was proud of Indiana's many accomplishments during his tenure as governor"  including investments in infrastructure.

The problem is not the PPP.  The problem is that the lowest bidder on the project turned out to have a parent company with financial difficulties that did not come out in the bidding process.   The question is why didn't the difficulties come to light?  Was there a flaw in the process that did not catch it or did the winning company hide their problems from the State of Indiana?

[hoosierguy]

If there had been no PPP and the state had overseen and funded the project from the beginning, as it SHOULD HAVE, then the road would either be done or close to it. Instead, we have this long delayed project that has led to extended dangerous driving conditions and multiple DEATHS. Pence and the state have blood on their hands.

[hoosierguy]

On a lighter note, can someone update Google Maps to reflect the opened interchange and extend the interstate designation and coloring up to Tapp Road? The Shaw and That Roads access point has been cut off too. Thanks.

[sparker]

Private enterprise does everything better! Hmmm, wait a minute...

Indiana Highway Gives "˜Black Eye' to Private Investment in Infrastructure
State selected Spanish construction company that quickly ran into financial trouble, leading to delays
https://www.wsj.com/articles/indiana-highway-gives-black-eye-to-private-investment-in-infrastructure-1502271003?mod=e2tw

At a time when Washington is promoting private investment in roads, bridges and other infrastructure, a 21-mile stretch of highway in Indiana provides what critics say is a cautionary tale.

The project, a partnership between the state and private investors, was signed by Vice President Mike Pence in 2014 when he was the state's governor. It is two years behind schedule and only 60% built. The state is in the process of taking it over and will have to issue debt to finish it.

"It became clear that the only way to ensure completion in a reasonable time frame would be to put it back under the state's control,"  said Stephanie Wilson, spokeswoman for current Republican Gov. Eric Holcomb. "As with any project, we must pivot and change course when needed. That's what we did here."

Asked about the failed partnership, vice presidential spokesman Mark Lotter said Mr. Pence "was proud of Indiana's many accomplishments during his tenure as governor"  including investments in infrastructure.

The problem is not the PPP.  The problem is that the lowest bidder on the project turned out to have a parent company with financial difficulties that did not come out in the bidding process.   The question is why didn't the difficulties come to light?  Was there a flaw in the process that did not catch it or did the winning company hide their problems from the State of Indiana?

Overseas-based companies such as the Spanish conglomerate contracted for that I-69 portion often are themselves part of a decidedly byzantine web of other companies and interests (things that wouldn't pass vetting here in the U.S.); when dealing with U.S. projects, they make sure that any paper trail connecting them to less-than-pristine activities elsewhere is as thin as possible.  They're certainly smart about it; they tailor their presentations and pricing structure to dovetail with not only the U.S. overriding concern with frugality but also the recent desire on the part of some at both the state and federal levels to privatize as much of the developmental process as possible.  In short, they present a package that fulfills, on paper, the "wish list" that has been presented to them or that they have intuited from the U.S. officials involved.  In this case the reality didn't match the promises. 

Unfortunately, this "grasping at straws" seems to characterize much of the approach to transportation expenses in jurisdictions that cater to those who would prefer to minimize -- or even truncate -- the historic approaches to funding.  But if those folks insist on proceeding along that path, they need to do more deep vetting of those they entrust with public works -- even if it means looking "gift horses" directly in the mouth!   

     

[silverback1065]

the old vernal pike alignment needs to be removed too

[ITB]

The Bloomington Herald-Times confirms the Fullerton Pike interchange has opened (behind paywall, of course)

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/news/local/confusing-signs-at-new-fullerton-pike-interchange-frustrate-drivers/article_5fa8e1cb-c60a-5229-b0e6-190586431a2c.html

The Fullerton Pike and Ind. 37 interchange opened this week to confusion and frustration.

what is the confusion and frustration about?

The confusion is the result of the interchange NOT YET linking into the street grid west of SR 37. Work is still ongoing to connect the interchange to W. Fullerton Road and S. Monroe Medical Park Blvd. From the interchange's west traffic roundabout, access to Monroe Hospital is possible, but to reach the medical offices across the street (S. Monroe Medical Park Blvd.) or Shaw Road vehicles–semis, buses, etc.–have been passing through the hospital's parking lot. It's a bizarre situation.

INDOT, apparently, wanted the SR 37/Fullerton Road interchange open, despite being not entirely completed. Why? Probably because they wanted work to begin at the SR 37/Tapp Road intersection. Remember, due to the requirement of maintaining access to Monroe Hospital, the Tapp Road/SR 37 intersection couldn't be closed, even partially, until the Fullerton Road interchange was opened. To complete Section 5 by the stipulated completion date–August 31, 2018–it was probably important to move forward at Tapp Road now, instead of in early fall.

Here's a map that illustrates the current situation. The red lines indicate the areas where construction is still underway. The hospital is the large structure with the black roof; the previously mentioned medical offices are across the street. The blue line represents the course some vehicles are taking to reach the medical offices, Shaw Road or Fullerton Road.


Courtesy Google Earth/Google Maps.

Edit: Revised map to include the blue line; minor wording edits.

Late Thursday afternoon, I went down to get a first hand view of the newly opened SR 37/Fullerton Pike interchange. I discovered some of the info in my earlier post (above) was not as accurate as it needed to be. To be sure, the fact that the interchange does not link into the street grid west of SR 37 is indeed correct. That vehicles are passing through the parking lot of Monroe Hospital to reach the street grid is also correct. However, the medical offices and Fullerton Pike cannot be accessed by driving through the hospital parking lot. Currently, the only road that can reached via the parking lot–aside from short stretch of S. Monroe Medical Park Blvd. that connects into the interchange's western roundabout–is Shaw Road. While fewer vehicles appear to cutting through the parking lot to access Shaw Road, it's still happening quite often.

This situation will resolve in the next 2-3 weeks when construction completes on the short stretch of S. Monroe Medical Park Blvd. Nevertheless, such a situation should never have developed in the first place. That the interchange was allowed to be opened with no access to the street gird west of SR 37 reflects poor planning and judgement. I pointed the finger at INDOT earlier, but I'm not sure that's entirely valid. Approval, however, was given to open the interchange, and that decision rests with either INDOT, the FHWA, or both.

Here's an amended map and photo that reflect the current situation at the SR 37/Fullerton Pike interchange. The red lines indicate where construction is continuing. The blue line, which begins at the interchange's western roundabout, shows the route through the hospital parking lot vehicles are taking to reach Shaw Road.





The short stretch of S. Monroe Medical Park Blvd. currently under construction near the I-69/Fullerton Pike interchange; looking north. In the background, vehicles can be seen passing though the western roundabout. Monroe Hospital is located to the right out of view. The entrance to the hospital from S. Monroe Medical Park is just behind the small excavator. Once vehicles commit to S. Monroe Medical Park from the roundabout, there is little choice but to the enter hospital parking lot. There they can either turn around and head back up to the roundabout and the interchange or exit south to Shaw Road.

[silverback1065]

this shouldn't have been opened.  they could have waited another month or 2

[cjw2001]

On a lighter note, can someone update Google Maps to reflect the opened interchange and extend the interstate designation and coloring up to Tapp Road? The Shaw and That Roads access point has been cut off too. Thanks.

Nope.  Google removed all abilities for crowd source map contributors to modify the map.  The best you can do is use the report a problem option and hope they might do something in 3 to 5 years.

[silverback1065]

I thought that they just moved it to a new place, it's gone forever?

[hoosierguy]

On a lighter note, can someone update Google Maps to reflect the opened interchange and extend the interstate designation and coloring up to Tapp Road? The Shaw and That Roads access point has been cut off too. Thanks.

Nope.  Google removed all abilities for crowd source map contributors to modify the map.  The best you can do is use the report a problem option and hope they might do something in 3 to 5 years.

Well that sucks and is dangerous and unfair to drivers. If road conditions change and are not quickly reflected on Google Maps it could lead to confusion and accidents.

[thefro]

On a lighter note, can someone update Google Maps to reflect the opened interchange and extend the interstate designation and coloring up to Tapp Road? The Shaw and That Roads access point has been cut off too. Thanks.

The interchange needs to be added but it's not going to be signed as an interstate until 2018 at the earliest.  I guess it could be labelled as a freeway up to the Fullerton Pike interchange, but until they get construction cleared out and traffic can move freely I wouldn't call it a "freeway" yet.

[cjw2001]

Well that sucks and is dangerous and unfair to drivers. If road conditions change and are not quickly reflected on Google Maps it could lead to confusion and accidents.

Yep.  For the US 31 project in Hamilton County I typically had the updates published on Google Maps the same day each road segment opened or closed.  No longer possible.   I've used the report option for the many new roundabout projects in Hamilton County since the shutdown of edit capabilities.  My reports are pretty much ignored other than simple road closure reports. 

[cjw2001]

I thought that they just moved it to a new place, it's gone forever?

What was moved to the maps interface was the ability to edit points of interest (restaurants, shopping centers, businesses, etc.).

Road edit capabilities haven't shown up yet and I'm not holding my breath.