Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[Captain Jack]

Has anyone involved with the Monroe County MPO actually been out on SR-37 in the last 20 years...all this fuss about limiting the development and adverse effects of I-69 is moronic. The interchanges and frontage roads along SR 37 in Bloomington are packed with all kinds of urban sprawl, Sams, Wal-Mart, Kohls, numerous chain hotels and restaurants, and strip malls galore.  There isn't any room for anything else if somebody wanted to put something in.

Do they think Sams is going to get knocked down for a Flying J?

[andy]

the state should take out all interchanges within 10 miles of Bloomington.

In fact, there are no exchanges south/west of IN37 for 11 miles. Possibly not an accident, because for Bloomington to grow, I think at least one should have been built. Now any residential development that direction will be in the next county.

[vtk]

Officials in southern Indiana's Monroe County are looking at tougher rules for any truck stops that might be built with the opening of the Interstate 69 extension.

While that particular point may be moot in Bloomington's case, it is in general a very sensible, even prudent, course of action. 

[thefro]

the state should take out all interchanges within 10 miles of Bloomington.

In fact, there are no exchanges south/west of IN37 for 11 miles. Possibly not an accident, because for Bloomington to grow, I think at least one should have been built. Now any residential development that direction will be in the next county.

There's actually still a ton of undeveloped land, particularly on the west side of the portion of SR37 that will become I-69.  Most development in Bloomington has been centered around Indiana University, not SR37.

Bloomington won't be out of suitable room for development anytime soon. 

[andy]

There's actually still a ton of undeveloped land, particularly on the west side of the portion of SR37 that will become I-69.  Most development in Bloomington has been centered around Indiana University, not SR37.

Bloomington won't be out of suitable room for development anytime soon.

I'll grant that's partly true, though there is a lot of development around SR37.

And it still strikes me as odd that a city the size of Bloomington goes 11 miles out between exchanges.  In addition, the design of that exchange connects to a west bound stub road that grants no real access to Monroe county. (But I may be living in my own biased fantasy world.)

I'll also grant Vtk's point that such restrictions might be prudent, but a co-worker pointed out to me that there has been, for a while now, a small truck stop south of where the SR37 ramps are being built.

[tdindy88]

Bloomington likely has little attention to develop southwest of town beyond the airport and fairgrounds and the area that the highway passes through will likely remain rural and I suspect those who live there will keep it that way. In that respect, I don't see much suburban style development out in eastern Greene County either. Growth in that city from what I've seen will stay east of the SR 37 corridor on the south side and areas around IU. The hills in that county make it unlikely to see any kind of Hamilton County-style of growth in Monroe County and I again suspect that the locals would like to keep it that way. As for a truck stop, I could actually see one along SR 46 west of the interchange with SR 37 (soon 69) at around Curry Pike. That area is designed to be some sort of industrial from my trips in that area and SR 46 is a well-traveled highway from Spencer down to Bloomington.

I do agree about the US 231 interchange and the possibility for a truck stop there, very doable and likely.

[mgk920]

There's actually still a ton of undeveloped land, particularly on the west side of the portion of SR37 that will become I-69.  Most development in Bloomington has been centered around Indiana University, not SR37.

Bloomington won't be out of suitable room for development anytime soon.

I'll grant that's partly true, though there is a lot of development around SR37.

And it still strikes me as odd that a city the size of Bloomington goes 11 miles out between exchanges.  In addition, the design of that exchange connects to a west bound stub road that grants no real access to Monroe county. (But I may be living in my own biased fantasy world.)

I'll also grant Vtk's point that such restrictions might be prudent, but a co-worker pointed out to me that there has been, for a while now, a small truck stop south of where the SR37 ramps are being built.

OTOH, how far is the first interchange on I-74 west of I-465 in the Indianapolis area?

Mike

[mukade]

Exit 68 is 5 miles west of I-465.

[vtk]

I-71 north of Columbus: 10 miles from OH-750 to US-36.  Until the 90s, it was 12 miles from I-270 to US-36.  That's a pretty good stretch just outside the city.

[andy]

As I think about it more, I also have to admit that since SR45 mostly parallels I69, it's probably unreasonable for me to have expected a budget conscious design to throw in an exchange along this stretch. Similar thinking killed the two extra exchanges between Washington and Petersburg in favor of letting SR57 serve the area.

And, as much as I hate to say anything nice about Monroe county, the do seem to be managing the growth of SR45 fairly well.

[silverback1065]

As I think about it more, I also have to admit that since SR45 mostly parallels I69, it's probably unreasonable for me to have expected a budget conscious design to throw in an exchange along this stretch. Similar thinking killed the two extra exchanges between Washington and Petersburg in favor of letting SR57 serve the area.

And, as much as I hate to say anything nice about Monroe county, the do seem to be managing the growth of SR45 fairly well.

I'm surprised they didn't just decommission 57

[RoadWarrior56]

I suspect in a matter of within a few years, at least some sections of SR 57 will indeed be decommissioned.  It may take the completion of I-69 at least to Bloomington as well as some protracted negotiations with the local cities and counties along SR 57's route to come to agreements on improvements to the roadway that have to be made before it is relinquished and then accepted by the local governments.   

[silverback1065]

I suspect in a matter of within a few years, at least some sections of SR 57 will indeed be decommissioned.  It may take the completion of I-69 at least to Bloomington as well as some protracted negotiations with the local cities and counties along SR 57's route to come to agreements on improvements to the roadway that have to be made before it is relinquished and then accepted by the local governments.

I think the evansville section goes first

[tdindy88]

I to agree that the Evansville stretch of SR 57 from US 41 to I-164 (69) will go first, but as for the rest of the highway, I'm not sure. SR 42 follows I-70 from Terre Haute to Mooresville, SR 46 follows I-74 from Greensburg to near Harrison, Ohio, and SR 68 follows I-64 from Poseyville to Dale with SR 62 following the rest of the interstate all the way to Edwardsville. I would ask why hasn't INDOT decided to give up any of these segments to the counties if the interstate is nearby.

The answer is because they still connect with small towns along their paths and as long as a state highway does that it will still be safe. We've seen plenty of decommissionings, but those highways are usually either very small and connect with a town that may already have a highway connection, or travel through towns (such as the Lafayette area decommissionings of late.) I think SR 57 is safe for the time being.

[silverback1065]

I to agree that the Evansville stretch of SR 57 from US 41 to I-164 (69) will go first, but as for the rest of the highway, I'm not sure. SR 42 follows I-70 from Terre Haute to Mooresville, SR 46 follows I-74 from Greensburg to near Harrison, Ohio, and SR 68 follows I-64 from Poseyville to Dale with SR 62 following the rest of the interstate all the way to Edwardsville. I would ask why hasn't INDOT decided to give up any of these segments to the counties if the interstate is nearby.

The answer is because they still connect with small towns along their paths and as long as a state highway does that it will still be safe. We've seen plenty of decommissionings, but those highways are usually either very small and connect with a town that may already have a highway connection, or travel through towns (such as the Lafayette area decommissionings of late.) I think SR 57 is safe for the time being.

Guess your right, you can also add US 136, 40, and 31 to that list.  SR 42 is a dangerous road in places very sharp curves.  US 136 is completely useless though. 

[RoadWarrior56]

A little history on SR 68.  Back in the mid 70's, even before I-64 was completed across Indiana, most of SR 68 was decommisioned and handed back to the counties.  I don't know the details, but the counties objected (why, I don't know) and Indiana State Highway Comission (now INDOT) was forced to take back the roadway into the system within a couple of years.  I was at the ISHC at the time as a young co-op student, working in the Vincennes District.

I do remember that before these roads can be decommisioned, that agreements have to be signed with local governments first and usually it involves maintenance beyond a certain time period after decommisioning and often resurfacing and various other improvements are included.

[silverback1065]

A little history on SR 68.  Back in the mid 70's, even before I-64 was completed across Indiana, most of SR 68 was decommisioned and handed back to the counties.  I don't know the details, but the counties objected (why, I don't know) and Indiana State Highway Comission (now INDOT) was forced to take back the roadway into the system within a couple of years.  I was at the ISHC at the time as a young co-op student, working in the Vincennes District.

I do remember that before these roads can be decommisioned, that agreements have to be signed with local governments first and usually it involves maintenance beyond a certain time period after decommisioning and often resurfacing and various other improvements are included.

That explains why there are 2 US 231s and US 52s in West Lafayette.

[Captain Jack]

I to agree that the Evansville stretch of SR 57 from US 41 to I-164 (69) will go first, but as for the rest of the highway, I'm not sure. SR 42 follows I-70 from Terre Haute to Mooresville, SR 46 follows I-74 from Greensburg to near Harrison, Ohio, and SR 68 follows I-64 from Poseyville to Dale with SR 62 following the rest of the interstate all the way to Edwardsville. I would ask why hasn't INDOT decided to give up any of these segments to the counties if the interstate is nearby.

The answer is because they still connect with small towns along their paths and as long as a state highway does that it will still be safe. We've seen plenty of decommissionings, but those highways are usually either very small and connect with a town that may already have a highway connection, or travel through towns (such as the Lafayette area decommissionings of late.) I think SR 57 is safe for the time being.

Guess your right, you can also add US 136, 40, and 31 to that list.  SR 42 is a dangerous road in places very sharp curves.  US 136 is completely useless though.

I agree on US 136, but I think US 150 may even be more useless. Most of the route is co-signed with either US 41 or US 50..and it's never even mentioned in those areas. I have never heard anyone in Sullivan or Terre Haute refer to the highway as 41-150, not once. The only section of any relevence is between Shoals and New Albany, a route that could easily be handled with a state route designation.

[Brandon]

I to agree that the Evansville stretch of SR 57 from US 41 to I-164 (69) will go first, but as for the rest of the highway, I'm not sure. SR 42 follows I-70 from Terre Haute to Mooresville, SR 46 follows I-74 from Greensburg to near Harrison, Ohio, and SR 68 follows I-64 from Poseyville to Dale with SR 62 following the rest of the interstate all the way to Edwardsville. I would ask why hasn't INDOT decided to give up any of these segments to the counties if the interstate is nearby.

The answer is because they still connect with small towns along their paths and as long as a state highway does that it will still be safe. We've seen plenty of decommissionings, but those highways are usually either very small and connect with a town that may already have a highway connection, or travel through towns (such as the Lafayette area decommissionings of late.) I think SR 57 is safe for the time being.

Guess your right, you can also add US 136, 40, and 31 to that list.  SR 42 is a dangerous road in places very sharp curves.  US 136 is completely useless though.

I agree on US 136, but I think US 150 may even be more useless. Most of the route is co-signed with either US 41 or US 50..and it's never even mentioned in those areas. I have never heard anyone in Sullivan or Terre Haute refer to the highway as 41-150, not once. The only section of any relevence is between Shoals and New Albany, a route that could easily be handled with a state route designation.

US-150 could be trimmed back to New Albany and no one, IMHO, would really notice.  It's a useless route through Illinois as well  Most could be turned back to the counties, and the section from Galesburg to Moline could become an extension of IL-41.  West of IL-1, US-136 serves some sort of purpose, but from Danville to Indy, it's also pretty useless.

[NE2]

It's a parallel surface route to the Interstate. No more useless than any other such route.

[hbelkins]

I agree on US 136, but I think US 150 may even be more useless. Most of the route is co-signed with either US 41 or US 50..and it's never even mentioned in those areas. I have never heard anyone in Sullivan or Terre Haute refer to the highway as 41-150, not once. The only section of any relevence is between Shoals and New Albany, a route that could easily be handled with a state route designation.

Would such a truncation of US 150 allow it to remain as a road of greater length than 300 miles?

If it was truncated to US 50, it could become an answer to a trivia question -- what roads begin at a certain route number and end at that number's double? (Or half, if you prefer).

It would begin at US 25 and end at US 50, or vice versa if you prefer.

[thefro]

http://www.i69indyevn.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Sec5_PreferredAlt8.pdf

Here is a PDF map of the refined, preferred alternative for Section 5 (through Bloomington to Martinsville) that was approved a couple months ago.

[silverback1065]

why are they redoing the sr 45 interchange?   isn't it fine to keep as is? it would save a lot of money

[tdindy88]

It has to do with the Tapp Road interchange. By the looks of it they are making Tapp and SR 45/2nd Street a split-diamond interchange. In doing so traffic heading north from Tapp Road will have to stop at SR 45/2nd first before entering the freeway. The interchange currently there wouldn't work in that configuration. Of course we could have some kind of C/D setup so that traffic can leave and enter the freeway in between Tapp and SR 45/2nd but then that would probably cost a little more money not to mention lead to a wider freeway.

[andy]

why are they redoing the sr 45 interchange?   isn't it fine to keep as is? it would save a lot of money

Are they expanding to six lanes under sr45? If so, they may need to re-do the exchange to make the acceleration lane available as a through lane.