Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[tdindy88]

Initially the highway will be six lanes from SR 48 to SR 45, effectively what they have right now as INDOT has concluded that six-laning the highway around Bloomington won't be needed until sometime after 2030 or so. Given that, I hope they at least design the road where the expansion of lanes can be done without much new construction. Now that I recall it, I don't remember if that six lane segment currently being planned includes the auxilary lane between the two exits, as there is now, or will be six lanes plus the auxilary on both sides, that may factor in the interchange's design.

[Indyroads]

what I don't understand is why Indot does not utilize a frontage road system with slip ramps like they do in Texas. Highways in Texas with this configuration are able to (for the most part) maintain the smaller footprint. This could be particularly useful in the areas with commercial retail developments close to the highway in Bloomington, and on the south side of Indianapolis.

[thefro]

Initially the highway will be six lanes from SR 48 to SR 45, effectively what they have right now as INDOT has concluded that six-laning the highway around Bloomington won't be needed until sometime after 2030 or so. Given that, I hope they at least design the road where the expansion of lanes can be done without much new construction. Now that I recall it, I don't remember if that six lane segment currently being planned includes the auxilary lane between the two exits, as there is now, or will be six lanes plus the auxilary on both sides, that may factor in the interchange's design.

For the segment in Bloomington the plan for whenever they build the extra lanes is to put them in the current median of SR 37 and to place a concrete barrier in the middle.  That way they don't have to acquire right of way all the way for two additional lanes through Bloomington which would signficantly increase the cost of the project.

what I don't understand is why Indot does not utilize a frontage road system with slip ramps like they do in Texas. Highways in Texas with this configuration are able to (for the most part) maintain the smaller footprint. This could be particularly useful in the areas with commercial retail developments close to the highway in Bloomington, and on the south side of Indianapolis.

In the case of the SR 45 interchange, there's literally no room for a frontage road to go with slip ramps to go, particularly with how the existing SR 37 curves.  They'd have to demolish most of those restaurants to make it work.

[silverback1065]

Are there really no plans to upgrade that awful interchange on the eastside with 69/465?  I thought for sure I read that it was part of the indy commute projects. 

[dfwtbear]

what I don't understand is why Indot does not utilize a frontage road system with slip ramps like they do in Texas. Highways in Texas with this configuration are able to (for the most part) maintain the smaller footprint. This could be particularly useful in the areas with commercial retail developments close to the highway in Bloomington, and on the south side of Indianapolis.

I have always wondered why most states have not adopted this way of building freeways.

[vdeane]

Isn't it more expensive outside of special cases like preserving a corridor or close interchanges because you're essentially building four carriageways?

[Indyroads]

Are there really no plans to upgrade that awful interchange on the eastside with 69/465?  I thought for sure I read that it was part of the indy commute projects. 

Plans do exist on rebuilding that NIGHTMARE of an interchange but it is a few years off yet

The plan is to separate traffic heading to the 82nd street exit from the mainline I-69 ramps as well as improving the interchange itself.

[silverback1065]

Are there really no plans to upgrade that awful interchange on the eastside with 69/465?  I thought for sure I read that it was part of the indy commute projects. 

Plans do exist on rebuilding that NIGHTMARE of an interchange but it is a few years off yet

The plan is to separate traffic heading to the 82nd street exit from the mainline I-69 ramps as well as improving the interchange itself.

that interchange is deplorable, I also can't believe that there are no plans to upgrade 465 from just north of 86th st. to US 31.  Michigan road isn't bad yet, but the 865 interchange is an embarrassment, absolute disaster during the rush hours, and the only reason why traffic backs up is the bottleneck that is that interchange.  Wonderful idea to funnel 8 lanes down to 4 then back to 6, don't get me started on that deathtrap of a flyover ramp from N465 to W865.  I'm sure they think it doesn't need it, but the constant back ups in both rush hours I beg to differ!!!

[Indyroads]

Are there really no plans to upgrade that awful interchange on the eastside with 69/465?  I thought for sure I read that it was part of the indy commute projects. 

Plans do exist on rebuilding that NIGHTMARE of an interchange but it is a few years off yet

The plan is to separate traffic heading to the 82nd street exit from the mainline I-69 ramps as well as improving the interchange itself.

that interchange is deplorable, I also can't believe that there are no plans to upgrade 465 from just north of 86th st. to US 31.  Michigan road isn't bad yet, but the 865 interchange is an embarrassment, absolute disaster during the rush hours, and the only reason why traffic backs up is the bottleneck that is that interchange.  Wonderful idea to funnel 8 lanes down to 4 then back to 6, don't get me started on that deathtrap of a flyover ramp from N465 to W865.  I'm sure they think it doesn't need it, but the constant back ups in both rush hours I beg to differ!!!

The I-865 and 4654 interchange needs to be constructed so that the mainline follows I-465 from East to South.  There is enough ROW available to do this.... Preferably with 3 lanes on the mainline and 2 exiting lanes to I-865 to Boone County and I-65 North. That section of I-465 from US 31 to 86th street will undoubtedly be upgraded  soon as it is one of the final segments of I-465 that hasn't been upgraded.

[Brandon]

Are there really no plans to upgrade that awful interchange on the eastside with 69/465?  I thought for sure I read that it was part of the indy commute projects. 

Plans do exist on rebuilding that NIGHTMARE of an interchange but it is a few years off yet

The plan is to separate traffic heading to the 82nd street exit from the mainline I-69 ramps as well as improving the interchange itself.

that interchange is deplorable, I also can't believe that there are no plans to upgrade 465 from just north of 86th st. to US 31.  Michigan road isn't bad yet, but the 865 interchange is an embarrassment, absolute disaster during the rush hours, and the only reason why traffic backs up is the bottleneck that is that interchange.  Wonderful idea to funnel 8 lanes down to 4 then back to 6, don't get me started on that deathtrap of a flyover ramp from N465 to W865.  I'm sure they think it doesn't need it, but the constant back ups in both rush hours I beg to differ!!!

The I-865 and 4654 interchange needs to be constructed so that the mainline follows I-465 from East to South.  There is enough ROW available to do this.... Preferably with 3 lanes on the mainline and 2 exiting lanes to I-865 to Boone County and I-65 North. That section of I-465 from US 31 to 86th street will undoubtedly be upgraded  soon as it is one of the final segments of I-465 that hasn't been upgraded.

This is what bugs me about I-865.  It really did not need to be done.  I-465 could have started at I-65 by Zionsville and them been numbered (FHWA be damned here) clockwise back to that point.

[roadman65]

I noticed that the newly opened I-69 is now on GSV.  It is neat that at the US 231 interchange at its north end as from US 231 it shows the interchange under construction, due to early capture, but the unopened ramps from US 231 you can maneuver onto and its done.

Corrected "caption" and removed subsequent posts relating to the misspelling (per the guidelines). - Alex

[andy]

I noticed that the newly opened I-69 is now on GSV.  It is neat that at the US 231 interchange at its north end as from US 231 it shows the interchange under construction, due to early caption, but the unopened ramps from US 231 you can manuver onto and its done.

Everything is done west of us231 and the overpass is done. The east ramps are still under constuction.

[lamsalfl]

Why was Plainview left without an interchange?  Not to say this road was done on the cheap, but did they kinda "fudge" interchange locations like Elnora/Odon to cut costs and get the road built?  Seems like Elnora could have had direct access.  Newberry failed to get an interchange as well. 

[bmeiser]

It looks like they favored state roads and US routes for interchanges.  I don't see any interchanges on other types of roads on this new stretch.  None of the towns you mentioned have a direct route from 69 to the town so that is probably why they don't have interchanges.

[andy]

The road was built with a "frugal" attitude, but there was also a measure of not letting "perfect be the enemy of good".  Since this is considered a rural area, the policy seemed to be to avoid exchanges closer than 10 miles.  Elnora to the current sr58 exchage is only about two miles.  It was discussed, particularly to support traffic continuing north on 57, but it just didn't justify the cost.


lamsalfl: "Plainview"??  Do you mean Plainville?  Since sr358 goes toward Odon, it might be argued that is Plainville's access and again that would have fallen under the 10 mile rule of thumb.

I'm just happy the thing was built. Some of the missing exchanges might be added in the future, but even if I have to share the road with construction crews from time to time (like this morning), its darn'd handy as is.

[tdindy88]

This is hardly a new thing for Indiana. One time I had to go to a funeral in the town of St. Peter in southern Franklin County. To get there I had to take I-74 to SR 101 and then SR 46. A few miles later I then turned onto to St. Peter Road which took me across the interstate and straight into town. There is a Boy Scout camp on the Clay-Putnam County line and the best way to get there is to take I-70 west to SR 59 (passing the location of the camp by several miles) and then back track to the east along SR 42 for a few miles (using SR 243 and 42 is the next best option but is far more windy of a route and negates any time benefits.)

The point is, this has been a standard practice in this state for years and even today there are very few interchanges outside of urban areas between an interstate and a non-U.S. or state highway. As I mentioned earlier, it's for reasons like these I suspect that SR 57 will remain, along with other highways that run parallel with an interstate.

[andy]

The point is, this has been a standard practice in this state for years and even today there are very few interchanges outside of urban areas between an interstate and a non-U.S. or state highway. As I mentioned earlier, it's for reasons like these I suspect that SR 57 will remain, along with other highways that run parallel with an interstate.

Agreed. IMO, that's not a bad thing, not that this really has anything specifically to do with I69.  Many seem think interstates are designed to spread development, but sometimes getting the traffic safely around and past a community of no interest to them is beneficial. It allows the major metropolitan areas to serve a much larger area and the smaller communities can often do well with only modest development.  Not to say some don't dream bigger than they need to.

[amroad17]

Are there really no plans to upgrade that awful interchange on the eastside with 69/465?  I thought for sure I read that it was part of the indy commute projects. 

Plans do exist on rebuilding that NIGHTMARE of an interchange but it is a few years off yet

The plan is to separate traffic heading to the 82nd street exit from the mainline I-69 ramps as well as improving the interchange itself.

that interchange is deplorable, I also can't believe that there are no plans to upgrade 465 from just north of 86th st. to US 31.  Michigan road isn't bad yet, but the 865 interchange is an embarrassment, absolute disaster during the rush hours, and the only reason why traffic backs up is the bottleneck that is that interchange.  Wonderful idea to funnel 8 lanes down to 4 then back to 6, don't get me started on that deathtrap of a flyover ramp from N465 to W865.  I'm sure they think it doesn't need it, but the constant back ups in both rush hours I beg to differ!!!

The I-865 and 4654 interchange needs to be constructed so that the mainline follows I-465 from East to South.  There is enough ROW available to do this.... Preferably with 3 lanes on the mainline and 2 exiting lanes to I-865 to Boone County and I-65 North. That section of I-465 from US 31 to 86th street will undoubtedly be upgraded  soon as it is one of the final segments of I-465 that hasn't been upgraded.

This is what bugs me about I-865.  It really did not need to be done.  I-465 could have started at I-65 by Zionsville and them been numbered (FHWA be damned here) clockwise back to that point.

That was the original numbering until 2002 or 2003.  I-865 was put on the "extra leg" to minimize driver confusion.

If traffic counts are reviewed, more traffic flows from I-465 west to I-865 west and vice versa that from I-465 north to I-465 east and vice versa.

[NWI_Irish96]

Drove I-69 from US 50/150 to I-64 for the first time yesterday.  Was very disappointed that there were no signs marking county lines, as Pike County was my 90th Indiana county visited, and I did not get to celebrate the exact moment.

[silverback1065]

Drove I-69 from US 50/150 to I-64 for the first time yesterday.  Was very disappointed that there were no signs marking county lines, as Pike County was my 90th Indiana county visited, and I did not get to celebrate the exact moment.

Really? That's really lazy of INDOT not to do that, they do it on every highway they maintain (that I've been on at least)!  Was this a cost cutting procedure, or just laziness, or an oversight?

[thefro]

Drove I-69 from US 50/150 to I-64 for the first time yesterday.  Was very disappointed that there were no signs marking county lines, as Pike County was my 90th Indiana county visited, and I did not get to celebrate the exact moment.

Really? That's really lazy of INDOT not to do that, they do it on every highway they maintain (that I've been on at least)!  Was this a cost cutting procedure, or just laziness, or an oversight?

The road is open but construction isn't officially complete yet, so they may be waiting on that to do things like put up county limit signs.

[andy]

Drove I-69 from US 50/150 to I-64 for the first time yesterday.  Was very disappointed that there were no signs marking county lines, as Pike County was my 90th Indiana county visited, and I did not get to celebrate the exact moment.

Really? That's really lazy of INDOT not to do that, they do it on every highway they maintain (that I've been on at least)!  Was this a cost cutting procedure, or just laziness, or an oversight?

The road is open but construction isn't officially complete yet, so they may be waiting on that to do things like put up county limit signs.

There are also a lot of side road signs not done.  As thefro commented, it looks like the sign work is waiting until the road is closer to complete, likely through section 4.
I've heard numerous stories about drivers missing the turn to Loogootee because its not posted until after you're on the ramp (only US50/150 is on the interstate proper).  Hopefully they eventually improve things.

I know its too late now, but as for celebrating Knox county, that one is easy because I-69 is from the White River Bridge to the Potoka River bridge.

[Captain Jack]

Drove I-69 from US 50/150 to I-64 for the first time yesterday.  Was very disappointed that there were no signs marking county lines, as Pike County was my 90th Indiana county visited, and I did not get to celebrate the exact moment.

Really? That's really lazy of INDOT not to do that, they do it on every highway they maintain (that I've been on at least)!  Was this a cost cutting procedure, or just laziness, or an oversight?

I have noticed that, and as of yet, there are still no mileage signs anywhere along the route. I get not having Bloomington or Indy yet, but why isn't southbound signed going towards Evansville? And you could certainly have the mileage to Washington and US 231 on the northbound route.

[mukade]

I can speculate on reasons why there are so few signs on I-69. First, I think Mitch Daniels was pretty smart in that he spread the wealth: most every metro area received something from Major Moves. NW Indiana got the expensive Borman/I-65 interchange rebuild and US 41 improvements - South Bend got the US 31 freeway and SR 331 - Elkhart got some major improvements on SR 19 and US 33 (and probably CR 17) - Fort Wayne got the US 24 freeway, part of the I-69 widening, and the SR 14 widening - Kokomo got the US 31 freeway and other improvements - Lafayette got the SR 25 expressway and a western bypass - Indy got Accelerate 465, north leg improvements, the I-69 widening, the Keystone Parkway freeway, and the US 31 freeway - Terre Haute is getting SR 641 freeway - Evansville and Washington got I-69 - Clark County is getting the East End Ohio River bridge (approaches are funded from MM). I would also say most Bloomington people were happy with both SR 45/SR 46 widening and even I-69.

So, because I-69 alone was getting $700M (20%?) of the Major Moves funds and because the anti-I-69 folks were so vocal that the entire I-69 road would cost the state $3.2B, INDOT was really diligent about keeping the costs of I-69 construction as low as possible. They cut out two interchanges and a rest area, and they made the medians a bit narrower to save land acquisition costs. So signs were another casualty. Yet, the state wanted I-69 to at least connect Evansville and Bloomington. To INDOT's credit, they did install lighting at I-69 and US 50.

Also, I bet federal funds will eventually pay for the vast majority of the additional signage when it does get put up. So there may be a method to the madness.

I'd say the sparse signage is a small price to pay for getting this critical highway built.

[tdindy88]

I hope that the additional signage, mileage signs and county lines will be added once Section 4 is completed. That or I'll be asking INDOT what's up with that. We were able to add mileage signs to the new US 24, 231, 31 and SR 25, we can do so for I-69. To that degree, that's why I includes the distances to certain control points on the interstate when I helped create the I-69 page for AARoads last year, so people could at least see what the distances may be when the real signs go up.


Oh, and it looks like I-69 just grew a little bit.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10675.0
http://route.transportation.org/Documents/Indiana%20AM2013.pdf

I'm sure most of us can say it's about time!