Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[The Ghostbuster]

The Interstate 41/43/894 segment along the Airport Freeway, and the Interstate 41/894 segment along the Zoo Freeway uses Interstate 894's mile markers and exit numbers. Just as it always has. That's probably why the 894 designation was retained.

[sprjus4]

I highly doubt any of 465 will be decommissioned, given it is a full beltway around Indianapolis. If Wisconsin didn't decommission 894, the 465 designation is safe.

That would never happen 465 is an iconic highway here, plus a lot of it is just 465 (ignoring the state and US highways secretly using 465) conversely 894 serves 0 purpose and should be decommissioned as it is cosigned with another interstate for its entire route, I doubt 894 has any name recognition in the area either.

The portion that is just I-465 would be kept regardless. The southeastern portion, carrying I-74 and I-69, could reasonably be decommissioned. It would create a situation similar to I-440 in North Carolina around Raleigh, or Greensboro where I-73 and I-85 form the southern portion of the loop.

[JREwing78]

How would such a change help anyone? If anything it would make navigation more difficult for folks. I-465 has been there for over 50 years, plenty long enough for folks to figure out how to use it to drive around Indianapolis.

The only reason to multiplex I-69 is to keep those travelers moving along the shortest path between the two sections. Removing I-465 on the multiplexed section just confuses people.

SM-G991U

[roadman65]

I highly doubt any of 465 will be decommissioned, given it is a full beltway around Indianapolis. If Wisconsin didn't decommission 894, the 465 designation is safe.

That would never happen 465 is an iconic highway here, plus a lot of it is just 465 (ignoring the state and US highways secretly using 465) conversely 894 serves 0 purpose and should be decommissioned as it is cosigned with another interstate for its entire route, I doubt 894 has any name recognition in the area either.

The portion that is just I-465 would be kept regardless. The southeastern portion, carrying I-74 and I-69, could reasonably be decommissioned. It would create a situation similar to I-440 in North Carolina around Raleigh, or Greensboro where I-73 and I-85 form the southern portion of the loop.

Keep in mind The Capital Beltway had I-495 decommissioned when I-95 took over the eastern half. Look at it now. The situation became confusing that both MD and VA had to reinstate the route number back to the entire beltway.

[adt1982]

East Saint Louis and Saint Louis had I-55, 64, and 70 multiplex for years until 70 moved to a new bridge.  It wasn't 'too much.'  You still have 55/64/40 together and things flow just fine. 

[silverback1065]

Also keep in mind that the portion of 465 that is multiplexed with 74 is literally NEVER referred to as 465 AND 74. locals don't even realize 74 uses 465, and will do the same when 69 comes online. the entire loop locally is referred to as just "465" and will likely always be. a similar much smaller situation happened in terre haute where us 40/SR 46 is known as SR 46 locally and for address purposes, so they kept that name too. I guess that's also why 894 still exists, it's been that way for so long changing it would just anger and confuse people 

[abqtraveler]

I highly doubt any of 465 will be decommissioned, given it is a full beltway around Indianapolis. If Wisconsin didn't decommission 894, the 465 designation is safe.

That would never happen 465 is an iconic highway here, plus a lot of it is just 465 (ignoring the state and US highways secretly using 465) conversely 894 serves 0 purpose and should be decommissioned as it is cosigned with another interstate for its entire route, I doubt 894 has any name recognition in the area either.

The portion that is just I-465 would be kept regardless. The southeastern portion, carrying I-74 and I-69, could reasonably be decommissioned. It would create a situation similar to I-440 in North Carolina around Raleigh, or Greensboro where I-73 and I-85 form the southern portion of the loop.

Keep in mind The Capital Beltway had I-495 decommissioned when I-95 took over the eastern half. Look at it now. The situation became confusing that both MD and VA had to reinstate the route number back to the entire beltway.

A lot of folks in the Boston area still refer to the I-95 loop around the city as Route 128, nearly 50 years after I-95 was routed onto it.

[Rothman]

Also keep in mind that the portion of 465 that is multiplexed with 74 is literally NEVER referred to as 465 AND 74. locals don't even realize 74 uses 465, and will do the same when 69 comes online. the entire loop locally is referred to as just "465" and will likely always be. a similar much smaller situation happened in terre haute where us 40/SR 46 is known as SR 46 locally and for address purposes, so they kept that name too. I guess that's also why 894 still exists, it's been that way for so long changing it would just anger and confuse people 

Nap Town residents should refer to the infamous segment with all the route numbers that are concurrent...

[FixThe74Sign]

Considering INDOT loves to split up State Routes when they go through towns, I'm surprised they are even bothering co-signing the interstates. 

[silverback1065]

Considering INDOT loves to split up State Routes when they go through towns, I'm surprised they are even bothering co-signing the interstates. 

rather than fixing the north split they just decommission 65/70 inside 465  and slap a couple of "END" signs on 65 and 70

[tdindy88]

Pretty sure the Feds won't let them decommission any interstates or US highways, not without approval anyway.

[Strider]

I highly doubt any of 465 will be decommissioned, given it is a full beltway around Indianapolis. If Wisconsin didn't decommission 894, the 465 designation is safe.

That would never happen 465 is an iconic highway here, plus a lot of it is just 465 (ignoring the state and US highways secretly using 465) conversely 894 serves 0 purpose and should be decommissioned as it is cosigned with another interstate for its entire route, I doubt 894 has any name recognition in the area either.

The portion that is just I-465 would be kept regardless. The southeastern portion, carrying I-74 and I-69, could reasonably be decommissioned. It would create a situation similar to I-440 in North Carolina around Raleigh, or Greensboro where I-73 and I-85 form the southern portion of the loop.

Nope. Leave I-465 as is since it was there long before I-74 and I-69 came through. Raleigh's I-440 and Greensboro's I-840 part are completely different situations.

[rickmastfan67]

I highly doubt any of 465 will be decommissioned, given it is a full beltway around Indianapolis. If Wisconsin didn't decommission 894, the 465 designation is safe.

That would never happen 465 is an iconic highway here, plus a lot of it is just 465 (ignoring the state and US highways secretly using 465) conversely 894 serves 0 purpose and should be decommissioned as it is cosigned with another interstate for its entire route, I doubt 894 has any name recognition in the area either.

The portion that is just I-465 would be kept regardless. The southeastern portion, carrying I-74 and I-69, could reasonably be decommissioned. It would create a situation similar to I-440 in North Carolina around Raleigh, or Greensboro where I-73 and I-85 form the southern portion of the loop.

Keep in mind The Capital Beltway had I-495 decommissioned when I-95 took over the eastern half. Look at it now. The situation became confusing that both MD and VA had to reinstate the route number back to the entire beltway.

Kinda wish PennDOT would have done the same, and kept I-279 connected on both ends with I-79, instead of renumbering everything exit # wise when they extended I-376.

Personally, wouldn't have had an issue with them renumbering the exit numbers, just should have kept the full distance of I-279 signed as I-279 with I-376 just piggybacking for the one segment.

[LM117]

I highly doubt any of 465 will be decommissioned, given it is a full beltway around Indianapolis. If Wisconsin didn't decommission 894, the 465 designation is safe.

That would never happen 465 is an iconic highway here, plus a lot of it is just 465 (ignoring the state and US highways secretly using 465) conversely 894 serves 0 purpose and should be decommissioned as it is cosigned with another interstate for its entire route, I doubt 894 has any name recognition in the area either.

The portion that is just I-465 would be kept regardless. The southeastern portion, carrying I-74 and I-69, could reasonably be decommissioned. It would create a situation similar to I-440 in North Carolina around Raleigh, or Greensboro where I-73 and I-85 form the southern portion of the loop.

NCDOT kinda put a small dent in I-440 when they made I-87 continue on I-440 to the SE I-40 interchange, unlike the former I-495, which ended at I-440. They should've done the same with I-87, IMO.

[sprjus4]

I highly doubt any of 465 will be decommissioned, given it is a full beltway around Indianapolis. If Wisconsin didn't decommission 894, the 465 designation is safe.

That would never happen 465 is an iconic highway here, plus a lot of it is just 465 (ignoring the state and US highways secretly using 465) conversely 894 serves 0 purpose and should be decommissioned as it is cosigned with another interstate for its entire route, I doubt 894 has any name recognition in the area either.

The portion that is just I-465 would be kept regardless. The southeastern portion, carrying I-74 and I-69, could reasonably be decommissioned. It would create a situation similar to I-440 in North Carolina around Raleigh, or Greensboro where I-73 and I-85 form the southern portion of the loop.

Nope. Leave I-465 as is since it was there long before I-74 and I-69 came through. Raleigh's I-440 and Greensboro's I-840 part are completely different situations.

Nope, I said it would create a situation similar to those North Carolina examples. I didn't say their histories are similar, at all. If I-465 was cut back, it would be the exact same situation I-73 / I-85 around Greensboro is, and how I-40 around Raleigh is.

Different histories, but would be the exact same situation in terms of the mainline forming some of the beltway.

[Strider]

I highly doubt any of 465 will be decommissioned, given it is a full beltway around Indianapolis. If Wisconsin didn't decommission 894, the 465 designation is safe.

That would never happen 465 is an iconic highway here, plus a lot of it is just 465 (ignoring the state and US highways secretly using 465) conversely 894 serves 0 purpose and should be decommissioned as it is cosigned with another interstate for its entire route, I doubt 894 has any name recognition in the area either.

The portion that is just I-465 would be kept regardless. The southeastern portion, carrying I-74 and I-69, could reasonably be decommissioned. It would create a situation similar to I-440 in North Carolina around Raleigh, or Greensboro where I-73 and I-85 form the southern portion of the loop.

Nope. Leave I-465 as is since it was there long before I-74 and I-69 came through. Raleigh's I-440 and Greensboro's I-840 part are completely different situations.

Nope, I said it would create a situation similar to those North Carolina examples. I didn't say their histories are similar, at all. If I-465 was cut back, it would be the exact same situation I-73 / I-85 around Greensboro is, and how I-40 around Raleigh is.

Different histories, but would be the exact same situation in terms of the mainline forming some of the beltway.

Nope. Because if that's the case, as of in your situation: I-465 would start at I-74 west of Indy, going past I-65 and then end at I-69. Therefore I-465 would have met its parent only once. I-440 and I-840 meet their parents at both ends.

I-840 has never meant to be signed on the entire Greensboro beltway at the first place; and I-440 started out as US 1 Bypass (and other US routes) on northern part and US 64-US 70-US 401-NC 50 on the southern part before all the changes were made to what you see now.

There are better examples than the ones you provided.

[sprjus4]

I highly doubt any of 465 will be decommissioned, given it is a full beltway around Indianapolis. If Wisconsin didn't decommission 894, the 465 designation is safe.

That would never happen 465 is an iconic highway here, plus a lot of it is just 465 (ignoring the state and US highways secretly using 465) conversely 894 serves 0 purpose and should be decommissioned as it is cosigned with another interstate for its entire route, I doubt 894 has any name recognition in the area either.

The portion that is just I-465 would be kept regardless. The southeastern portion, carrying I-74 and I-69, could reasonably be decommissioned. It would create a situation similar to I-440 in North Carolina around Raleigh, or Greensboro where I-73 and I-85 form the southern portion of the loop.

Nope. Leave I-465 as is since it was there long before I-74 and I-69 came through. Raleigh's I-440 and Greensboro's I-840 part are completely different situations.

Nope, I said it would create a situation similar to those North Carolina examples. I didn't say their histories are similar, at all. If I-465 was cut back, it would be the exact same situation I-73 / I-85 around Greensboro is, and how I-40 around Raleigh is.

Different histories, but would be the exact same situation in terms of the mainline forming some of the beltway.

Nope. Because if that's the case, as of in your situation: I-465 would start at I-74 west of Indy, going past I-65 and then end at I-69. Therefore I-465 would have met its parent only once. I-440 an I-840 meet their parents TWICE. So, not the same situation.

I wasn't narrowing down to the specific details in that regard, the point is that examples do exist where mainline interstates consist of part of the beltway.

No need to get all defensive about a single, hypothetical situation and comparison.. I don't even support changing I-465, for what it's worth. It's okay 

[Strider]

I highly doubt any of 465 will be decommissioned, given it is a full beltway around Indianapolis. If Wisconsin didn't decommission 894, the 465 designation is safe.

That would never happen 465 is an iconic highway here, plus a lot of it is just 465 (ignoring the state and US highways secretly using 465) conversely 894 serves 0 purpose and should be decommissioned as it is cosigned with another interstate for its entire route, I doubt 894 has any name recognition in the area either.

The portion that is just I-465 would be kept regardless. The southeastern portion, carrying I-74 and I-69, could reasonably be decommissioned. It would create a situation similar to I-440 in North Carolina around Raleigh, or Greensboro where I-73 and I-85 form the southern portion of the loop.

Nope. Leave I-465 as is since it was there long before I-74 and I-69 came through. Raleigh's I-440 and Greensboro's I-840 part are completely different situations.

Nope, I said it would create a situation similar to those North Carolina examples. I didn't say their histories are similar, at all. If I-465 was cut back, it would be the exact same situation I-73 / I-85 around Greensboro is, and how I-40 around Raleigh is.

Different histories, but would be the exact same situation in terms of the mainline forming some of the beltway.

Nope. Because if that's the case, as of in your situation: I-465 would start at I-74 west of Indy, going past I-65 and then end at I-69. Therefore I-465 would have met its parent only once. I-440 an I-840 meet their parents TWICE. So, not the same situation.

I wasn't narrowing down to the specific details in that regard, the point is that examples do exist where mainline interstates consist of part of the beltway.

No need to get all defensive about a single, hypothetical situation and comparison.. I don't even support changing I-465, for what it's worth. It's okay 

Lol. You're funny man. No such thing as a defense here. I'm stating facts that there are better examples than what you use.

[bmeiser]

Pixel 7

[ITB]

With the prior discussion having run its course, it's time for some pictures. These, like the handful posted earlier, are screen grabs from INDOT traffic cameras. Each photo features a date and time stamp on the bottom left. Also included are a couple of grabs from Google Maps.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Looking slightly northwest from near the I-69/SR144 overpass and interchange in Johnson County. Southbound traffic, which previously had been running on the northbound roadway, has been shifted back to the recently paved southbound lanes. Sometime next week or, perhaps the following, the northbound lanes will close in this vicinity to begin the construction of the new bridge over Bluff Creek, which is located just south of the overpass. I'm not sure how northbound traffic will be handled, but it probably will be shifted to the new southbound roadway.

Here's a couple of grabs of the Smith Valley Road overpass and future interchange.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Looking northeast. Plans are to open the overpass and the southbound entrance and exit ramps sometime this month. It could be as early as next week. When the overpass is opened, the traffic light will almost certainly be removed. At the same time, the Smith Valley Road/SR 37 intersection will be sealed off. Please bear in mind nothing has been released about removing the traffic light or sealing off of the intersection, so I don't know for sure what's going to transpire. But, going forward, it seems implausible the intersection will remain open after the overpass and southbound ramps become operational.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Another view, with the wires to the right.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Looking south from near the Smith Valley Road overpass. As shown, paving of the northbound roadway south of the Smith Valley overpass is nearly complete. The northbound exit ramp also awaits its paving with concrete.


Google Maps
Underneath the I-465 mainline bridge crossing over Harding Street in Indianapolis; looking east. This bridge, which currently carries both east- and westbound traffic, six lanes in total, will be replaced. Judging from the concrete deterioration, rehabbing and expanding the bridge was probably not feasible. Instead of one large replacement bridge, it appears there will be two new bridges built, each carrying four lanes. Work is currently underway on the new eastbound bridge. Pile driving is complete and work has started on the abutments.


Google Maps
Eastbound I-465 bridge over S. Meridian Street; looking east. Like the bridge over Harding Street, this one is showing its age as well, although not to the same extent as Harding. I don't know what the plan is for this bridge, whether it'll be replaced or just expanded and rehabbed. Note, too, the image date of 2019. It's possible some work has been done to this bridge between then and now.

Update: The I-465 bridges over S. Meridian Street will be replaced with new bridges. Construction is already underway.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Looking north from near the former SR37/Banta Road intersection in Marion County. After the long July 4th weekend, work quickly resumed on the future southbound segment of roadway between Edgewood Avenue and Southport Road.

Tonight's a big night for INDOT and contractors Walsh-Milestone, as the steps to completely close the westbound lanes of I-465 between I-65 and I-70 will get underway soon after the sun goes down. The closure is planned to last 22 days.

Edit: Added a photo; minor edits for readability

[ITB]

Last night, the closure of westbound I-465 between I-65 and I-70 on the southside of Indianapolis, went smoothly. As expected, they started closing entrance ramps between 9 and 10pm, and by around 11pm, perhaps a little later, the entire stretch was sealed off.


Barricades to block the entrance ramp from Harding Street to I-465W were among the first to be set up. Police were stationed here, and at other ramp closure locations.

[ITB]

Here's a few more pictures. Photos were taken Sunday, July 9, 2023, unless otherwise noted.


Looking southeast from the new Epler Avenue overpass in southern Marion County. The path of I-69 is now more clearly defined. On the right, the ground is being built up for the entrance ramp to I-69S. As many of you already know, the interchange at Epler Avenue will be partial, with only an exit ramp from I-69N and the entrance ramp to I-69S.


Turning around, looking northwest from Epler toward the future I-69/I-465 system interchange. Not all that much has changed here in the past month. Work is underway to remove the surcharge (foreground), but it doesn't seem to be a priority. Also that mound of dirt in the mid-background left, probably another surcharge, has to be removed, too.


Long range shot from Epler; looking northwest. In the background left is the curving MSE wall that will support the ramp from I-69N to I-465E. With its tall smokestacks, the Harding Street Generating Station is visible from many points in south Indianapolis.


Looking northeast toward the construction zone where the new eastbound I-465 roadway and the new eastbound exit ramp to Harding Street (asphalt, foreground) will be located. This is directly behind the Flying J truck stop on Thompson Road. I was able to park there and mosey over for a look-see. Because of the expanded right-of-way of I-465, the Flying J lost about 50 truck parking spots. In the background where the crane is positioned, work is underway on new bridge over a ditch.


Closer look at the bridge piles at the ditch; looking northeast. On Google Maps, this ditch is visible, but it's not labeled. It's hard to determine whether it's an outlet for the large quarry north of I-465 or, otherwise, a small waterway flowing into the quarry. The bridge, which will carry I-465E, is replacing a double box culvert. You'll have to ask the engineers why a bridge is being constructed here, instead of simply replacing the culvert. Also, in the background right, are the piles for the new I-465E bridge over Harding Street.

Update: The ditch is called Haueisen Ditch. Also, the structure being replaced over Haueisen is considered by INDOT to be a bridge, not a culvert.


View looking west toward the future I-69/I-465 interchange. In the foreground is the exit ramp from I-465E to Harding Street. Note how the ramp goes under the double lane I-69N to I-465E ramp.


Long range view looking west from behind the Flying J. On the right is the exit ramp to Harding Street. It's possible the ramp will eventually be paved with concrete, but I have doubts.


Another view looking northeast from behind the truck stop. On the left is, again, the exit ramp to Harding Street. The tall lighting fixture likely will be installed this week.


Westbound I-465 bridge over S. Meridian Street in Indianapolis; looking northeast. It looks like the new bridge will be built adjacent to the old one, and in preparation to do that about 1/3 of the old bridge has been chopped off. This bridge, although not currently carrying traffic because of the 22 day westbound closure, will be in use for another year.


Closer look.


The I-465 bridges over S. Meridian Street; looking north. Ouch! Must have been a loud wham that startled the neighborhood. Obviously, the engineers determined the bridge was OK for continued use, but it sure does look gnarly.


Underneath the I-465E bridge over S. Meridian Street; looking east. I don't know the rating of this structure, but I imagine with some repairs it could last another 10 years. That isn't relevant anymore, however, as early next year it's coming down, to be replaced with a completely new bridge.


Another look at the bridges over S. Meridian Street; looking north. The 14'3'' clearance is no longer standard. It seems the plan is to construct the new westbound bridge, then swing eastbound traffic over that bridge. After that's accomplished, the old eastbound bridge can then be demolished and replaced with a new bridge. Finally, after eastbound traffic has been returned to the newly built eastbound bridge, westbound traffic can be shifted onto the new westbound bridge, and the old westbound bridge can then be taken down. That's just my take on how things will proceed. Might be correct, might be wrong. We'll see how it plays out.


Another look at the bridge work, replacing the box culvert just west of the I-465/Harding Street interchange.

[ITB]

Here's four recent screen grabs from INDOT traffic cameras.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Night work. Using "loose lift," building up the future southbound roadway just north of the former SR 37/Banta Road intersection in Marion County. The loose lift process involves putting down roughly six inches of material, then compacting it. And this is repeated, again and again, until the desired height is reached. The material is coming from the large surcharge north of the Epler Avenue overpass.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Turning around, a late morning view looking south.


INDOT Traffic Camera
And this is how it looks after compaction.


INDOT Traffic Camera
View looking slightly northwest from the Mann Road overpass. Since the closure of westbound I-465 five days ago, work has been ongoing 24/7.

Edit: Added the "after compaction" photo.

[ITB]

As expected, the northbound traffic shift in the vicinity of the I-69/SR 144 interchange in Johnson County has taken place. Northbound traffic is now routed onto one lane of the southbound roadway. The crossover point begins a little south of the overpass. This will allow demolition of the northbound bridge over Bluff Creek to proceed, followed by construction of a new bridge.


INDOT Traffic Camera
As the 8 pm hour approaches, traffic is light in both directions. Looking north from near the I-69/SR 144 overpass and interchange.

With northbound traffic funneled to one lane, there's bound to be a congestion, particularly during times of moderate traffic. How bad the bottleneck will be is difficult to determine. Unfortunately, there was no other feasible option. Northbound traffic had to be shifted off the northbound roadway. Period. On the plus side, two lanes of southbound traffic will be maintained. In all likelihood, this traffic setup will continue until the northbound bridge over Bluff Creek completes and is opened to traffic.

By the way, the community identifier centered on the overpass, northbound direction, reads "State Road 144". I imagine it's the same southbound, but I neglected to check. Next time.

[abqtraveler]

As expected, the northbound traffic shift in the vicinity of the I-69/SR 144 interchange in Johnson County has taken place. Northbound traffic is now routed onto one lane of the southbound roadway. The crossover point begins a little south of the overpass. This will allow demolition of the northbound bridge over Bluff Creek to proceed, followed by construction of a new bridge.


INDOT Traffic Camera
As the 8 pm hour approaches, traffic is light in both directions. Looking north from near the I-69/SR 144 overpass and interchange.

With northbound traffic funneled to one lane, there's bound to be a congestion, particularly during times of moderate traffic. How bad the bottleneck will be is difficult to determine. Unfortunately, there was no other feasible option. Northbound traffic had to be shifted off the northbound roadway. Period. On the plus side, two lanes of southbound traffic will be maintained. In all likelihood, this traffic setup will continue until the northbound bridge over Bluff Creek completes and is opened to traffic.

By the way, the community identifier centered on the overpass, northbound direction, reads "State Road 144". I imagine it's the same southbound, but I neglected to check. Next time.

Given that the carriageway is wide enough to accommodate 3 lanes during construction, I'm curious if INDOT or the construction contractor considered using a "zipper barrier" to allow crews to switch the direction of the middle lane (second SB lane), making it available to motorists during peak travel periods for a given direction of travel (I would think NB in the morning and SB in the afternoon/evening).