Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[roadman65]

Well the six lane concrete divided highway would be overkill. If they chop up half of it, it could make for a good local road then.

[JREwing78]

The existence of the roadway at all is overkill. At this point, they could obliterate the roadway between Thompson Rd and Epler Ave, and sell off the real estate to adjoining property owners. Also, they could restore the alignment of Harding St at and south of Thompson Rd, and Epler Ave where it crosses the soon-to-be-former SR-37. There's no reason to retain the existing SR-37 roadway in any form.

[mgk920]

The existence of the roadway at all is overkill. At this point, they could obliterate the roadway between Thompson Rd and Epler Ave, and sell off the real estate to adjoining property owners. Also, they could restore the alignment of Harding St at and south of Thompson Rd, and Epler Ave where it crosses the soon-to-be-former SR-37. There's no reason to retain the existing SR-37 roadway in any form.

Agreed.

Mike

[davewiecking]

The existence of the roadway at all is overkill. At this point, they could obliterate the roadway between Thompson Rd and Epler Ave, and sell off the real estate to adjoining property owners. Also, they could restore the alignment of Harding St at and south of Thompson Rd, and Epler Ave where it crosses the soon-to-be-former SR-37. There's no reason to retain the existing SR-37 roadway in any form.

So NB traffic on I-69 headed into Indianapolis should have to go eastbound 1 mile or westbound 2 miles on I-465 in order to continue into the city?

[bmeiser]

Or hop over to Bluff Rd and head into the city from there. Bluff turns into West St and is a more direct route into downtown anyways. I'm from the south side and we never took Harding into town. It basically dead-ends at 70. There really isn't anything on that side of the White river.

Pixel 7

[sprjus4]

They're not getting rid of Harding St. It's going to tie into Epler Ave to have a partial interchange with I-69 just south of I-465.

[TheCleanDemon]

The existence of the roadway at all is overkill. At this point, they could obliterate the roadway between Thompson Rd and Epler Ave, and sell off the real estate to adjoining property owners. Also, they could restore the alignment of Harding St at and south of Thompson Rd, and Epler Ave where it crosses the soon-to-be-former SR-37. There's no reason to retain the existing SR-37 roadway in any form.

So NB traffic on I-69 headed into Indianapolis should have to go eastbound 1 mile or westbound 2 miles on I-465 in order to continue into the city?

That's what I've done for years. 37N to 465E to 65N

[Life in Paradise]

The existence of the roadway at all is overkill. At this point, they could obliterate the roadway between Thompson Rd and Epler Ave, and sell off the real estate to adjoining property owners. Also, they could restore the alignment of Harding St at and south of Thompson Rd, and Epler Ave where it crosses the soon-to-be-former SR-37. There's no reason to retain the existing SR-37 roadway in any form.

So NB traffic on I-69 headed into Indianapolis should have to go eastbound 1 mile or westbound 2 miles on I-465 in order to continue into the city?

That's what I've done for years. 37N to 465E to 65N

I have taken I-69/IN 37 into either Harding or switched off at County Line to go up old 37 depending upon time of day.  I'll now go over to I-65 to go downtown, since all the consturction will be done by next year.

[tdindy88]

Harding Street is still a major roadway north of I-465 connecting to various industrial businesses and providing a direct connection with I-70. It's still an important route despite not being the best way to downtown. Not everyone is going to downtown. I would guess there will still be a portion of commuter traffic using I-69 north to the Epler ramp to access Harding Street for those destinations further north. Furthermore there are those truck stops at the intersection of Harding and Thompson. Those will still be heavily utilized and due to the constant semi and traveler traffic the existing travel lanes and turn lanes will still be needed. The new I-69 interchange will hopefully make it much better to access those businesses and Harding Street to the north, but I don't think a reduction in lanes will help much on that end. If nothing else the lane configuration south of I-465 should be roughly the same to the north, it is a four-lane roadway all the way up to I-70.

[Moose]

The truck stops are probably why they are having ramps on Harding off 465, otherwise they would have just done away with it and made anyone wanting Harding use Epler.

[Life in Paradise]

The truck stops are probably why they are having ramps on Harding off 465, otherwise they would have just done away with it and made anyone wanting Harding use Epler.

There is quite a lot of truck traffic that goes up Harding, and I would say that is why the truck stops are there.  Harding is an industrial area between I-465 and I-70.

[Moose]

The truck stops are probably why they are having ramps on Harding off 465, otherwise they would have just done away with it and made anyone wanting Harding use Epler.

There is quite a lot of truck traffic that goes up Harding, and I would say that is why the truck stops are there.  Harding is an industrial area between I-465 and I-70.

Yes, but its a chicken and egg thing to me.... is all the truck traffic on Harding because that exit is literally the only truck stop in town (trucks coming down out of the SW corner of town to get to those truck stops).. or are the truck stops there because of the traffic?

By the arguments above. I-70 Holt Road has a ton of truck traffic and should have truck stops, yet it doesn't. Same thoughts with all the other exits.

It is a weird situation with the truck stops in this town, its the only exit on 465, 70, and 65 with truck stops IN Marion county.

I still say that if the truck stops were elsewhere, INDOT doesn't replace the harding exit off Hardling, and just puts the one on Epler to access it.

[Interstate 69 Fan]

Ginormous APL sign is up on 465 EB just east of Mann Road for Exit 5. Saw it earlier today, with the I-69 South sign partially revealed.

[ITB]

It's been a while since the previous set of construction photos were posted, so here's a selection of recent screenshots from INDOT cameras:


INDOT Traffic Camera
New camera, new perspective. On the south side of Indianapolis, looking east toward the future I-465W to I-69S flyover. Either last week or the week before, the flyover's final prestressed concrete beams were placed, stretching from the median pier (left) to the north abutment (out of view). On the right is, as many of you already know, the eastbound exit ramp to Harding Street.


INDOT Traffic Camera
From Monday, earlier this week, a long range shot from the Mann Road overpass. Geotextile fabric was being rolled out on the roadbed of the future two left lanes of eastbound I-465 plus left shoulder, as well as the left shoulder and far left lane of the westbound lanes.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Here's what it looked like after aggregate was placed atop the geotextile fabric. Note the sign foundation (bottom center), which denotes the location of the future median barrier wall. After this section of roadway completes, probably sometime in May or June, westbound I-465 traffic will be shifted onto the new pavement. Crews will then rip up the pavement of the current westbound lanes and begin the process to rebuild and widen.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Zoomed in view from the Mann Road camera focused on the newly built bridge section over Harmon Ditch. Again, note the sign foundation, probably for an overhead sign that will stretch over the westbound lanes.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Here's the perspective from the camera positioned just east of Harmon Ditch, looking southeast. In the background (left), construction is now underway to build the new, wider bridge that will carry westbound I-465 over the White River. Of interest, note the distance of the northern sign foundation (left) from the current roadway. This gives an idea how much the westbound roadway will be widened. Unfortunately, there's a occupied house just feet from that foundation. With the constant traffic, one has to wonder how these folks are going to manage with the westbound lanes virtually in their backyard. It's possible the property was acquired during the right-of-way acquisition process and the date to vacate is soon forthcoming. But maybe not. We'll see.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Looking west toward I-465 and the bridges over Bluff Road (background). This spot is about one mile east of the I-69 interchange work zone. In this vicinity, eastbound traffic has been transitioned to the westbound lanes to facilitate construction of the new, wider eastbound bridge over S. Meridian Street.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Turning around, the view looking east. The S. Meridian Street bridge construction zone is just around the bend. When that bridge completes, eastbound traffic will be shifted back, and westbound traffic will be transitioned to the pavement where eastbound traffic now runs. This will allow sections of the westbound roadway to be reconstructed.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Zoomed in view from a couple weeks ago looking toward the newly completed section of bridge over Bluff Road. When compared to the more recent picture posted two photos above very significant progress is evident.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Long range perspective looking toward the I-465/US 31 interchange. Eastbound traffic was backed up due to an incident. In time, perhaps in 15 or 20 years, this interchange will be rebuilt. At this time, however, the bridges and ramps are most likely in good shape and will last for a number of years with regular maintenance. That's probably what some engineer determined. As a result, it didn't make any sense to tear it down now and rebuild anew. And, of course, that another $100-150 million would have been needed most certainly was a consideration too.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Another zoomed in view from the Mann Road camera. Pictured is the large overhead sign which was mentioned in an above post. The gaping hole in the background (left) is the White River bridge construction zone.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Turning around, here's an early March view looking west toward the Mann Road overpass and partial interchange. Again, on the left is the newly built section of bridge over Harmon Ditch. In the background, Thompson Road is seen adjacent to the eastbound entrance ramp from Mann Road.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Long range perspective from the Mann Road Camera.


INDOT Traffic Camera
One more, an early evening view of I-465 just west of the White River bridge construction zone.

There is one component of the project that isn't pictured in the above photos: the I-69N to I-465W flyover and its girders. That's because INDOT has purposely redirected its cameras away from that particular area. The process to erect the last of the girders is probably complete by now, but until bracing is finished, and so on, the cameras most likely won't be shifted back.


INDOT Traffic Camera
In this picture, again from the Mann Road camera, the girders of the I-69N to I-465W flyover (deep background) appear to be extended to the north abutment. Please note my use of the phrase "appear to be" because girder placement may, in fact, not be complete. Without seeing the work in person or having a close up camera shot, it's all but impossible to determine whether girder placement is complete or not. At any rate, the flyover is much longer than it was previously, indicating significant progress has been made.

Edit: Added the last picture.
   

[Moose]

Both the US-31/I-465 and the southside I-65/I-465 interchanges feature those damnable flyover ramps that dump slow traffic right in the left fast lane.

They date from the same time period and have been there as long as I can remember (since the 80s)... 65/465 got redone, but those darn flyovers remained.

The ones at 65/465 are bad as they have a slow advisory signs on them. The NB to WB ramp has a hideous 25 on it, the SB to EB ramp has a 30.
The ones on the 31/465 ramps are a little more open, but you still have timid people who still manage to dawdle down them, and despite having a wider more sweeping curve on them they are posted 30 advisory.
All of this before these ramps unceremoniously dump you into the essentially 80mph+ lane.

The 465/65 interchange did get rebuilt several years back, they redid everything else, but left those lanes that dump cars in the left lane.

They are textbook examples of a early, "Hey instead of a cloverleaf... lets do these flyover lanes.." and they being early enough in Interstate design to not realize they are almost worse then a cloverleaf. Total classic example of, nice try, but yeah that is not the way to do that..

If your a decent driver, and know how to take the curve with some speed, and your not afraid to drop the hammer out of the curve.. you can merge fairly safely.. But a Semi cant do this, and many drivers with a decent car won't and wander there way around those ramps in a slow manner and pull out into high speed traffic.

Its almost a darn given if your coming by in the fast lane on 465, your gonna get some slow dragarse just pull out in front of you.. I honestly just move to the middle lane there, knowing those ramps are effectively dumping slow drivers right in front of you.

[silverback1065]

Both the US-31/I-465 and the southside I-65/I-465 interchanges feature those damnable flyover ramps that dump slow traffic right in the left fast lane.

They date from the same time period and have been there as long as I can remember (since the 80s)... 65/465 got redone, but those darn flyovers remained.

The ones at 65/465 are bad as they have a slow advisory signs on them. The NB to WB ramp has a hideous 25 on it, the SB to EB ramp has a 30.
The ones on the 31/465 ramps are a little more open, but you still have timid people who still manage to dawdle down them, and despite having a wider more sweeping curve on them they are posted 30 advisory.
All of this before these ramps unceremoniously dump you into the essentially 80mph+ lane.

The 465/65 interchange did get rebuilt several years back, they redid everything else, but left those lanes that dump cars in the left lane.

They are textbook examples of a early, "Hey instead of a cloverleaf... lets do these flyover lanes.." and they being early enough in Interstate design to not realize they are almost worse then a cloverleaf. Total classic example of, nice try, but yeah that is not the way to do that..

If your a decent driver, and know how to take the curve with some speed, and your not afraid to drop the hammer out of the curve.. you can merge fairly safely.. But a Semi cant do this, and many drivers with a decent car won't and wander there way around those ramps in a slow manner and pull out into high speed traffic.

Its almost a darn given if your coming by in the fast lane on 465, your gonna get some slow dragarse just pull out in front of you.. I honestly just move to the middle lane there, knowing those ramps are effectively dumping slow drivers right in front of you.

Those are some of the oldest interchanges on 465, and they haven't changed much since they built them! I wish they'd spend more money and get rid of those but it would be a lot.

[Moose]

Those are some of the oldest interchanges on 465, and they haven't changed much since they built them! I wish they'd spend more money and get rid of those but it would be a lot.

Yeah I don't know exactly how old they are, but fairly old.

The only ramp sort of like this, is the I 465 to I 65 interchange on the Northwest Side.. it has the NB ramp from 465 to 65, both on the left side.. but there is virtually no curvature on it, and no posted advisory speed. So everyone takes that one at full speed.

[bmeiser]

Both the US-31/I-465 and the southside I-65/I-465 interchanges feature those damnable flyover ramps that dump slow traffic right in the left fast lane.

They date from the same time period and have been there as long as I can remember (since the 80s)... 65/465 got redone, but those darn flyovers remained.

The ones at 65/465 are bad as they have a slow advisory signs on them. The NB to WB ramp has a hideous 25 on it, the SB to EB ramp has a 30.
The ones on the 31/465 ramps are a little more open, but you still have timid people who still manage to dawdle down them, and despite having a wider more sweeping curve on them they are posted 30 advisory.
All of this before these ramps unceremoniously dump you into the essentially 80mph+ lane.

The 465/65 interchange did get rebuilt several years back, they redid everything else, but left those lanes that dump cars in the left lane.

They are textbook examples of a early, "Hey instead of a cloverleaf... lets do these flyover lanes.." and they being early enough in Interstate design to not realize they are almost worse then a cloverleaf. Total classic example of, nice try, but yeah that is not the way to do that..

If your a decent driver, and know how to take the curve with some speed, and your not afraid to drop the hammer out of the curve.. you can merge fairly safely.. But a Semi cant do this, and many drivers with a decent car won't and wander there way around those ramps in a slow manner and pull out into high speed traffic.

Its almost a darn given if your coming by in the fast lane on 465, your gonna get some slow dragarse just pull out in front of you.. I honestly just move to the middle lane there, knowing those ramps are effectively dumping slow drivers right in front of you.

Being from the south side, I remember taking the 31-465 left on ramp in driver's ed. I remember my instructor telling me to take the curve extra fast and "punch it" as soon as it straightened out. Brave instructor he was.

Pixel 7

[tdindy88]

Those are some of the oldest interchanges on 465, and they haven't changed much since they built them! I wish they'd spend more money and get rid of those but it would be a lot.

Yeah I don't know exactly how old they are, but fairly old.

The only ramp sort of like this, is the I 465 to I 65 interchange on the Northwest Side.. it has the NB ramp from 465 to 65, both on the left side.. but there is virtually no curvature on it, and no posted advisory speed. So everyone takes that one at full speed.

It sucks because they just redid those ramps in the last few years. They closed those flyover ramps for a few months and did extensive work on them to make them good for a while. So unless there's some master plan in the upcoming future those ramps are here to stay for a while. And of course those ramps are one of the "reasons" they used to justify the 55 MPH speed limit on I-465. Que the state lawmakers: those dangerous left-side entrance ramps are still there, guess we can't raise the speed limit on 465, oh well! Shrugs shoulders.

[silverback1065]

Those are some of the oldest interchanges on 465, and they haven't changed much since they built them! I wish they'd spend more money and get rid of those but it would be a lot.

Yeah I don't know exactly how old they are, but fairly old.

The only ramp sort of like this, is the I 465 to I 65 interchange on the Northwest Side.. it has the NB ramp from 465 to 65, both on the left side.. but there is virtually no curvature on it, and no posted advisory speed. So everyone takes that one at full speed.

It sucks because they just redid those ramps in the last few years. They closed those flyover ramps for a few months and did extensive work on them to make them good for a while. So unless there's some master plan in the upcoming future those ramps are here to stay for a while. And of course those ramps are one of the "reasons" they used to justify the 55 MPH speed limit on I-465. Que the state lawmakers: those dangerous left-side entrance ramps are still there, guess we can't raise the speed limit on 465, oh well! Shrugs shoulders.

no one, not even the law makers that said that believes that's the real reason it's still 55 

[Interstate 69 Fan]

Those are some of the oldest interchanges on 465, and they haven't changed much since they built them! I wish they'd spend more money and get rid of those but it would be a lot.

Yeah I don't know exactly how old they are, but fairly old.

The only ramp sort of like this, is the I 465 to I 65 interchange on the Northwest Side.. it has the NB ramp from 465 to 65, both on the left side.. but there is virtually no curvature on it, and no posted advisory speed. So everyone takes that one at full speed.

It sucks because they just redid those ramps in the last few years. They closed those flyover ramps for a few months and did extensive work on them to make them good for a while. So unless there's some master plan in the upcoming future those ramps are here to stay for a while. And of course those ramps are one of the "reasons" they used to justify the 55 MPH speed limit on I-465. Que the state lawmakers: those dangerous left-side entrance ramps are still there, guess we can't raise the speed limit on 465, oh well! Shrugs shoulders.

Calling it now - if there's ever a proposal to reconstruct the US 31/465 interchange at Exit 2, a DDI will be one of the alternatives.

[Rothman]

Those are some of the oldest interchanges on 465, and they haven't changed much since they built them! I wish they'd spend more money and get rid of those but it would be a lot.

Yeah I don't know exactly how old they are, but fairly old.

The only ramp sort of like this, is the I 465 to I 65 interchange on the Northwest Side.. it has the NB ramp from 465 to 65, both on the left side.. but there is virtually no curvature on it, and no posted advisory speed. So everyone takes that one at full speed.

It sucks because they just redid those ramps in the last few years. They closed those flyover ramps for a few months and did extensive work on them to make them good for a while. So unless there's some master plan in the upcoming future those ramps are here to stay for a while. And of course those ramps are one of the "reasons" they used to justify the 55 MPH speed limit on I-465. Que the state lawmakers: those dangerous left-side entrance ramps are still there, guess we can't raise the speed limit on 465, oh well! Shrugs shoulders.

Calling it now - if there's ever a proposal to reconstruct the US 31/465 interchange at Exit 2, a DDI will be one of the alternatives.

"Hey, Marge, here's another bomb: I like beer." -- Homer Simpson

[silverback1065]

Those are some of the oldest interchanges on 465, and they haven't changed much since they built them! I wish they'd spend more money and get rid of those but it would be a lot.

Yeah I don't know exactly how old they are, but fairly old.

The only ramp sort of like this, is the I 465 to I 65 interchange on the Northwest Side.. it has the NB ramp from 465 to 65, both on the left side.. but there is virtually no curvature on it, and no posted advisory speed. So everyone takes that one at full speed.

It sucks because they just redid those ramps in the last few years. They closed those flyover ramps for a few months and did extensive work on them to make them good for a while. So unless there's some master plan in the upcoming future those ramps are here to stay for a while. And of course those ramps are one of the "reasons" they used to justify the 55 MPH speed limit on I-465. Que the state lawmakers: those dangerous left-side entrance ramps are still there, guess we can't raise the speed limit on 465, oh well! Shrugs shoulders.

Calling it now - if there's ever a proposal to reconstruct the US 31/465 interchange at Exit 2, a DDI will be one of the alternatives.

the only possible way for that to be true is if the minor movements (everything to and from meridian) were a part of that exclusively. all the movements to and from us 31 will be limited access. there is too much traffic for 31 for a ddi to make any sense.

[Interstate 69 Fan]

Those are some of the oldest interchanges on 465, and they haven't changed much since they built them! I wish they'd spend more money and get rid of those but it would be a lot.

Yeah I don't know exactly how old they are, but fairly old.

The only ramp sort of like this, is the I 465 to I 65 interchange on the Northwest Side.. it has the NB ramp from 465 to 65, both on the left side.. but there is virtually no curvature on it, and no posted advisory speed. So everyone takes that one at full speed.

It sucks because they just redid those ramps in the last few years. They closed those flyover ramps for a few months and did extensive work on them to make them good for a while. So unless there's some master plan in the upcoming future those ramps are here to stay for a while. And of course those ramps are one of the "reasons" they used to justify the 55 MPH speed limit on I-465. Que the state lawmakers: those dangerous left-side entrance ramps are still there, guess we can't raise the speed limit on 465, oh well! Shrugs shoulders.

Calling it now - if there's ever a proposal to reconstruct the US 31/465 interchange at Exit 2, a DDI will be one of the alternatives.

the only possible way for that to be true is if the minor movements (everything to and from meridian) were a part of that exclusively. all the movements to and from us 31 will be limited access. there is too much traffic for 31 for a ddi to make any sense.

If they wanted to keep it that way, I'm not really sure there's even a standard interchange design that can fit in the current ROW.

[ITB]

Calling it now - if there's ever a proposal to reconstruct the US 31/465 interchange at Exit 2, a DDI will be one of the alternatives.

I agree. When the US 31 bridge needs replacing, the entire interchange will be redone. A DDI could very well be feasible, traffic wise as well as cost.