Ok, so when US-64 and US-264 were both going to be designated as an interstate, what the fuck is NCDOT doing?!?! If anything, I would make an I-46 and I-99 from Raleigh to Norfolk and have the route have TO I-99 signs!!!! Also, make an I-44 from Raleigh to Washington, NC would be a great idea!!
Also, make a I-246 if you can't do I-44.
What is up with the East End Connector and the Winston-salem Northern Beltway? Aren't those supposed to be fucking done by now?? I hope NCDOT doesn't have projects that would be delayed. It pisses me off and I'm sure it makes me and everyone feel like shit!!!!
Greenville urban projects like Allen Rd, Firetower rd, 14th st widening and Evans widening are all delayed to 2024. And what's up with the US 29 601 interchange?!?!?!?!?! Is this a fucking joke? It was originally supposed to be complete in summer 2018. But did it get pushed back 2 years or are they just taking a break? This is ridiculous.
Making US 1 a freeway?!?!?!?! What that will do with anything??? Will it EVER happen because it got pushed back? I'm like really. Holy shit!!
I'm guessing is due to budget issues and as i said, NCDOT takes FOREVER to get stuff done.
This is the end of my rant, goodbye.
Geeze...I'd hate to find out what your opinion on stuff like CA 99, CA 210 and CA 905 would be. North Carolina is probably one of the more aggressive states presently in attempting to pursue new Interstate designations.
East End Connector is supposed to be done next summer. It was supposed to be done by the end of 2019.
Somehow NCDOT manages to somehow be one of the best DOTs and one of the worst at the same time...
I have to admit, I got a good laugh out of the concept of the NCDOT snail-fucking division.
Quote from: Roadsguy on December 05, 2019, 09:45:19 PM
Somehow NCDOT manages to somehow be one of the best DOTs and one of the worst at the same time...
I say they are good at planning and building highways and not so good when it comes to making new interstates. Like who in the hell would design US 70 as I-36 (NCDOT's original idea)? AASHTO made it I-42 because it fits in the grid. I think NCDOT needs to learn how the interstate highway system works.
Ouch... I can't speak for North Carolina as I have never been there. Sometimes, I wonder why crucial infrastructure here is simply pushed to the side, like the Bella Vista Bypass. Missouri voters have voted down taxes that benefit transportation time and time again, which may be a contributing factor.
OK boomer
There's some big boomer energy up in here.
Alright guys, let's get back on topic.
____________________________________
Why the hell do we have I-74 in North Carolina?
Why isn't the Winston-Salem northern beltway a complete (full 360) beltway?!
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/TPBCTP/Winston%20Salem/WSMPO_CTP_Highway.pdf
What happened to the part that would connect goddamn I-74 to US 158? Is that project scrapped or what?! Idk....
What happened to the airport connector? That would have been a new freeway (with tolls) that would connect to the airport and I could possibly use my proposed I-48 to going there! They left no space for any extension. Maybe they want to widen I-40 instead?? Instead of widening highways, why don't you build new ones?! That would help traffic flow and not fuck around with the traffic on existing highways.
Airport connector and US 158 and I-74 connector
http://prntscr.com/q7lk88
Southern Winston-salem beltway
http://prntscr.com/q7lkim
________________________________________
This interchange NEEDS to be a FREE FLOWING interchange! If you want an interstate coming here.
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.2606157,-78.0832955,15.08z
I would recommend that the title of this rant be changed to "Angry rant about NCDOT" since it is the common denominator to all the problems brought up in the rant.
It was a good move on my part to take a screenshot of the original rant.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on December 07, 2019, 12:18:51 PM
I would recommend that the title of this rant be changed to "Angry rant about NCDOT" since it is the common denominator to all the problems brought up in the rant.
It was a good move on my part to take a screenshot of the original rant.
Alright, I changed the title of the thread.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on December 07, 2019, 12:18:51 PM
It was a good move on my part to take a screenshot of the original rant.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 05, 2019, 09:54:04 PM
I have to admit, I got a good laugh out of the concept of the NCDOT snail-fucking division.
Now I want to know what the original rant was...
Quote from: freebrickproductions on December 07, 2019, 01:19:31 PM
Now I want to know what the original rant was...
Just the word "f--k" used a lot more.
I think making all of US 1 a freeway would be a good idea, it would help spur economic development in Franklin and Vance Counties north of Raleigh. Pfizer in Lee County probably doesn't get built if US 1 is not a full freeway from Sanford to Raleigh.
South of Sanford making US 1 a freeway would make the Southern Pines-Moore County more desirable to retirees, although the allure of golf at Pinehurst is a good start, and if you continue the freeway to Rockingham maybe tie it into the I-73 corridor and maybe NASCAR will come back to Rockingham Raceway.
As for Greenville projects getting pushed back, I think that city still gets the "it's a small town in the middle of nowhere" by NCDOT, similar to the "it's a little beach town" mentality that Wilmington is STILL to a lot of NCDOT bureaucrats.
Quote from: RoadPelican on December 07, 2019, 05:29:58 PM
I think making all of US 1 a freeway would be a good idea, it would help spur economic development in Franklin and Vance Counties north of Raleigh. Pfizer in Lee County probably doesn't get built if US 1 is not a full freeway from Sanford to Raleigh.
South of Sanford making US 1 a freeway would make the Southern Pines-Moore County more desirable to retirees, although the allure of golf at Pinehurst is a good start, and if you continue the freeway to Rockingham maybe tie it into the I-73 corridor and maybe NASCAR will come back to Rockingham Raceway.
As for Greenville projects getting pushed back, I think that city still gets the "it's a small town in the middle of nowhere" by NCDOT, similar to the "it's a little beach town" mentality that Wilmington is STILL to a lot of NCDOT bureaucrats.
?? US 1 already is a full freeway between Raleigh and Sanford, although it would need some upgrades to reach interstate standards. There's a stoplight at NC 78 in Tramway, just south of Sanford, but most of US 1 from there almost to Southern Pines is a near-freeway with only two at-grade intersections, both in the "smart" configuration. The Sandor-Southern Pines section was upgraded to support major golf tournaments in the Pinehurst area.
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 07, 2019, 05:24:50 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on December 07, 2019, 01:19:31 PM
Now I want to know what the original rant was...
Just the word "f--k" used a lot more.
No, he used the word fuck a lot more.
Also there was a bit that was suggested that NCDOT's slow pace on certain projects was due to the organization's desire to have sex with snails. (I'd like to see the minutes of the meeting where
that was put on their eight-year plan.)
I'd actually say NCDOT is one of the best DOTs right now. They've done a pretty good job on most of their latest projects. NC freeways look a LOT better and higher quality than they did 30-40 years ago.
Quote from: Cemajr on December 08, 2019, 03:19:43 PM
I'd actually say NCDOT is one of the best DOTs right now. They've done a pretty good job on most of their latest projects. NC freeways look a LOT better and higher quality than they did 30-40 years ago.
That was might point of contention on the harshness of the original version of the opening post. There are a lot of DOTs that deserve critical scorn way more than NCDOT does these days. It
^ Agree his arguments do have valid concerns, but NCDOT is still getting it done faster than any other state would, even if it's delayed.
Even what I said about them being one of the best and worst DOTs at the same time may be a bit harsh, since there's not a whole lot about their major projects that I can really point to as being downright stupid other than clearly not knowing how 3di numbering directionality works. Well, that and the numbers of I-87 and I-540, but that's another discussion. Of course, I don't live anywhere near NC and have only been there three times, so I don't know anything about minor projects or general maintenance quality.
They may take forever to do any one of their million major projects, but PennDOT for instance takes forever to do any of their major projects that feel like they can be counted on one hand. To steal an analogy I heard about multi-core computer processors, nine women can't make a baby in a month, but they can make nine babies in nine months. I guess all they can do is have a lot of projects in development and that all the design, environmental permitting, ROW acquisition, etc. takes just as long as in every other state.
Quote from: Cemajr on December 08, 2019, 03:19:43 PM
I'd actually say NCDOT is one of the best DOTs right now. They've done a pretty good job on most of their latest projects. NC freeways look a LOT better and higher quality than they did 30-40 years ago.
I say they are good at planning and building highways and not so good when it comes to making new interstates.
That's what I said... Haha
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_0707B_Report-2012.pdf
This project would have been very nice but it's fucked up because they are already developing around the areas when this highway was proposed. Who thinks this would still come out useful? I think I would still like this project without having to widen I-40.
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 09, 2019, 01:53:25 PM
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_0707B_Report-2012.pdf
This project would have been very nice but it's fucked up because they are already developing around the areas when this highway was proposed. Who thinks this would still come out useful? I think I would still like this project without having to widen I-40.
The project was to build an 8-mile expressway / boulevard between western Greensboro / airport area to High Point to bypass an 8-mile congested 5-lane arterial that currently exists.
Widening I-40 wouldn't do anything, traffic would still largely use NC-68.
It's a valuable connection, and one that could still be built. There's still open land that could carry a readjusted routing, plus there's this thing called right of way acquisition.
Ideally though, this project, if built, should be constructed as a freeway facility with full control of access. The Winston-Salem / High Point / Greensboro triangle is growing, and good connectivity needs to be maintained. It seems like a mistake to construct it as a surface roadway that will get littered with traffic signals and side developments. It's not some local boulevard, it's a key connection between the western side of the Greensboro to High Point that is currently missing
(the eastern side already has I-85 as an adequate connection). That local boulevard connection already exists via NC-68. The study indicates the AADT would be over 40,000 in 2040. Over a distance of 12 miles, that's definitely warrants a full freeway. 4-lanes of a 65 mph freeway can easily handle that load, whereas 4-lanes of a 45 mph surface boulevard with traffic lights will be choked.
EDIT - After looking at the design plans closer, it appears the only "arterial" stretches would be a few minor at-grade intersections with likely one traffic signal at Idol Cox Rd, along with utilizing the existing I-74 interchange. My recommendation would be relocate the minor at-grade intersections as frontage road connections or overpasses, the one traffic signal at Idol Cox Rd be replaced with a diamond interchange, and a larger directional interchange constructed south of the existing NC-68 interchange be constructed creating a seamless freeway-to-freeway movement. It's not much changes, the current design is already rural expressway with a few unneeded intersections.
On a related note, is the I-73/74 Airport Connector linking the I-73/NC 68 interchange at the airport to the Winston-Salem Northern Beltway still being studied? The project tolbs17 just shared seems to functionally replace the eastern half of this connector as well as the included link to the I-40/Business 40 interchange.
Quote from: Roadsguy on December 09, 2019, 07:50:34 PM
On a related note, is the I-73/74 Airport Connector linking the I-73/NC 68 interchange at the airport to the Winston-Salem Northern Beltway still being studied? The project tolbs17 just shared seems to functionally replace the eastern half of this connector as well as the included link to the I-40/Business 40 interchange.
I don't see the point of it IMO, I-40 / I-40 Business is an adequate connection. The airport to I-40 West access could be improved by way of the High Point freeway, but the rest isn't needed.
NC 68 is the most direct route between the west side of Greensboro and central High Point. As someone who commutes daily along NC 68, I will say that this project is needed NOW. I don't get why NCDOT is building the Jamestown bypass when I-85 and Business 85 are already more than adequate for traffic on that side of Guilford County.
A Western expressway bypass of High Point is most definitely needed.
Quote from: RoadPelican on December 09, 2019, 10:32:49 PM
NC 68 is the most direct route between the west side of Greensboro and central High Point. As someone who commutes daily along NC 68, I will say that this project is needed NOW. I don't get why NCDOT is building the Jamestown bypass when I-85 and Business 85 are already more than adequate for traffic on that side of Guilford County.
A Western expressway bypass of High Point is most definitely needed.
Maybe we should pitch to NCDOT if this project is still alive. Especially they didn't leave the grading for I-73 for an airport connection to the northern beltway.
1) North Carolina is pretty much only rivaled by Texas for overall speed/ease of new route construction. You could be stuck in Alabama watching almost nothing new happen to our roads, year after year, and most planning never gets further than the drawing board and a press release. Or somewhere in the northeast where development and history has hemmed in a lot of potential right-of-way. Or almost anywhere else that either has no money, a lot of opposition to these projects, and actual environmental/engineering issues.
2) The traffic issues in Triad, Triangle, and Charlotte (vaguely in that order) seem to come first. Even though the Triad is the third-largest agglomeration in the state, they planned for growth and made room for ROW. Yes, there's growth by having a beltway and future interstates in your area, but this isn't SimCity...this takes time, and instant route gratification is a myth. Temper your expectations.
3) You're in the Greenville area; while there's some growth, pretty much any city within 500 miles of the Eastern Seaboard or any major city in the South can brag about similar percentages of population and traffic growth. Look at it this way, Asheville gets more tourism but there's been almost nothing added to the highway system there in the past 20 years (for a variety of reasons), so as least you're not that far behind in catching up with traffic numbers.
Quote from: formulanone on December 10, 2019, 07:23:15 AM
Look at it this way, Asheville gets more tourism but there's been almost nothing added to the highway system there in the past 20 years (for a variety of reasons), so as least you're not that far behind in catching up with traffic numbers.
In fairness, about 20 miles of I-26 between Asheville and Hendersonville were recently placed under construction widening the highway from 4 to 8 lanes in the northern section, and from 4 to 6 lanes in the southern section.
The construction of I-26 north of Mars Hill was completed back in 2003, less than 20 years ago.
Asheville is a larger metro area than Greenville overall, and has more traffic demands both thru and local having both I-26 and I-40 passing thru the area. Older, substandard freeways that aren't adequate, urban routes, etc. then there's the cluster *** that the I-26 / I-240 junction is.
Greenville's freeway system is relatively new compared to Asheville and plenty adequate for the traffic it sees.
Keep in mind, Greenville has gotten a decent amount of access to/from improvements over the past 20 years. The completion of the US-64 freeway to Williamston and the widening of US-13 to 4-lanes between Greenville and US-64 has opened up a new 4-lane route to Hampton Roads and Northeastern North Carolina, the completion of the US-264 freeway around Wilson has completed a 4-lane freeway route between Greenville, I-95 (in both directions), and Raleigh, and effectively then to I-85 and I-40. Greenville has better freeway connections than Hampton Roads does when it comes to connections to interstate highways such as I-95 South, I-85 South, and I-40 West, and it's far smaller than Hampton Roads.
My opinion is the local road projects should be accelerated in Greenville, and in the future as growth continues, construction of a southeastern loop may be warranted, but that's about it. There's no need for miles upon miles of rural freeway construction to supplement existing 4-lane routes that only connect to minor population centers, such as US-64 to US-70, or US-264 to Washington. There may be a local desire, and that's great, but it's going to be far low of a priority funding wise. If the funding comes around after all the other issues in the state have been dealt with, then that's great, but these local interstate concepts can only be realistically A) not built and left as is with 4-lane rural highways, or B) built in many segments, piece by piece.
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/FS-1002B_Feasibility-Study_Report_2016.pdf
This project is also a big one for Greenville. It's a hybrid 6/8 lane boulevard design, (the existing right now is a 5-lane major thoroughfare) but I would make a couple of changes.
Greenville Blvd and Memorial Dr intersection
The reason why I put a question mark here is because of people having to wait a light before turning. This is a very congested intersection, and the main flow of the traffic is from SB Greenville Blvd to SB Memorial Dr.
http://prntscr.com/q8wpz0
As for this one, this one is perfect because it shows a free flowing ramp where many people wait to turn.
http://prntscr.com/q8wphs
Greenville Blvd and Evans
Question mark here because it looks sort of odd having to grade separate a railroad track with an at-grade intersection. It would also take out the sharp left turns on evans from the main intersection too.
http://prntscr.com/q8wsn6
Who can find a better interchange design than this? this loops pretty good, but it runs through a neighborhood and we can possible try to avoid that.
http://prntscr.com/q8x58g
Just normal upgrades without any bridges, eh.
http://prntscr.com/q8x5xt
NOTE: this is incomplete, but I will put in more.
Speaking of I-26, when is NC going to close the gap with respect to the part that is officially designated and signed?
Quote from: vdeane on December 10, 2019, 12:53:33 PM
Speaking of I-26, when is NC going to close the gap with respect to the part that is officially designated and signed?
Not until the said cluster **** interchange with I-26 and I-240 is completed and I-240 is widened in the area around the interchange.
And when will they do that? I-26 has been sitting for so long that IMO the portion going into TN shouldn't have been designated at all - at least not until this was done.
Maybe NC and other states would be less gung ho about getting new interstate corridors if they actually had to follow through before they could start benefiting. It annoys me how so many interstates are in disarray because of segments that won't be built for a long time, if ever. IMO an interstate shouldn't be allowed to be signed if the addition to the system only makes sense if some other project gets built some day. Requiring that the system be coherent 100% of the time, with no allowances for planned projects, would protect against things like this.
Quote from: vdeane on December 10, 2019, 01:42:08 PM
And when will they do that? I-26 has been sitting for so long that IMO the portion going into TN shouldn't have been designated at all - at least not until this was done.
Maybe NC and other states would be less gung ho about getting new interstate corridors if they actually had to follow through before they could start benefiting. It annoys me how so many interstates are in disarray because of segments that won't be built for a long time, if ever. IMO an interstate shouldn't be allowed to be signed if the addition to the system only makes sense if some other project gets built some day. Requiring that the system be coherent 100% of the time, with no allowances for planned projects, would protect against things like this.
Being from NY, I'm sure you have traveled through PA and there are Interstates that supposed to be complete and were and still are substandard, I-476 for example for one. Personal experience being a Scranton/Wilkes-Barre native. I-81, another example. I-76 through Philly proper. Those examples have areas with little to no shoulders, ramps that are no way near long enough to accelerate to Interstate speeds, here's the kicker I-676 has a traffic light!
At least the I-26 and I-240 is a quasi Interstate junction that is more functional than the examples above so the signage, stating "Future" is still warranted.
Link to project below, projected start date is 2021:
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/asheville-i-26-connector/Pages/default.aspx
Quote from: vdeane on December 10, 2019, 01:42:08 PM
And when will they do that? I-26 has been sitting for so long that IMO the portion going into TN shouldn't have been designated at all - at least not until this was done.
Maybe NC and other states would be less gung ho about getting new interstate corridors if they actually had to follow through before they could start benefiting. It annoys me how so many interstates are in disarray because of segments that won't be built for a long time, if ever. IMO an interstate shouldn't be allowed to be signed if the addition to the system only makes sense if some other project gets built some day. Requiring that the system be coherent 100% of the time, with no allowances for planned projects, would protect against things like this.
NCDOT has not ignored the need to rebuild the I-26/I-240 connections in Asheville; it has been working on this problem for many years. The problem has been that Asheville is NIMBY heaven and NCDOT has had to fight over and over again to make any progress. However, a plan is now in place and work could begin as soon as 2021 unless there's yet another hangup.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/asheville-i-26-connector/Pages/default.aspx
And Greenville's freeway system are pretty much all bypasses.
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_1210A_Report_2014.pdf
Is this project still alive or dead?
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_9196006_Report_1997.pdf
For this one, can we possible have this project come back to life because it looks weird looking at a half interchange that was planned a long time ago and nothing has happened.
The second feasibility study you linked includes on Page 5 some future ramps at the I-40/Wade Avenue interchange indicating a new road heading north from there labeled "Reedy Road." Page 2 mentions traffic entering I-40 EB from Reedy Creek Road, implying that this is at least a connector to that road. How long was this still proposed? I can't find any information on it, or at least what information there is is drowned out among talk of I-40 widening and the I-440 improvements.
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 10, 2019, 07:07:03 PM
And Greenville's freeway system are pretty much all bypasses.
Where else would Greenville need a freeway besides bypasses? It's not that large of a city and for the most part it's isolated as far as location goes. There's no significant city anywhere east or north of it so there wouldn't be any point of a freeway that went through the town. Even Kinston to the south has lost a lot of its significance since the 90s so the current 60 mph NC 11 is pretty adequate for that connection. I'd say it makes perfect sense as is that it's the end of the line on a freeway coming from the west connecting it to Raleigh/Durham.
Quote from: Cemajr on December 10, 2019, 08:27:39 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 10, 2019, 07:07:03 PM
And Greenville's freeway system are pretty much all bypasses.
Where else would Greenville need a freeway besides bypasses? It's not that large of a city and for the most part it's isolated as far as location goes. There's no significant city anywhere east or north of it so there wouldn't be any point of a freeway that went through the town. Even Kinston to the south has lost a lot of its significance since the 90s so the current 60 mph NC 11 is pretty adequate for that connection. I'd say it makes perfect sense as is that it's the end of the line on a freeway coming from the west connecting it to Raleigh/Durham.
You think Greenville is not that large of a city? Well its population is getting close to 100,000...
Make NC 11 a freeway from Greenville to Jacksonville (Phase 1) and a freeway from Jacksonville to Wilmington (Phase 2)!
https://www.jdnews.com/news/20180218/jacksonville-could-see-interstate-access-soon
If you look at the map, 1 and 5 are the most useful. 6 as well
(It's not part of the Greenville to Wilmington highway though).
Quote from: Cemajr on December 10, 2019, 08:27:39 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 10, 2019, 07:07:03 PM
And Greenville's freeway system are pretty much all bypasses.
Where else would Greenville need a freeway besides bypasses? It's not that large of a city and for the most part it's isolated as far as location goes. There's no significant city anywhere east or north of it so there wouldn't be any point of a freeway that went through the town. Even Kinston to the south has lost a lot of its significance since the 90s so the current 60 mph NC 11 is pretty adequate for that connection. I'd say it makes perfect sense as is that it's the end of the line on a freeway coming from the west connecting it to Raleigh/Durham.
The only freeway I could reasonably see built is along the Greenville Blvd corridor from the NC-11 Bypass to US-264. Only issue is development has gotten in the way of any ideal path for a local freeway route to be constructed.
It also wouldn't hurt to relocate the northern end of the NC-11 Bypass from NC-33 to NC-11 to provide a seamless connection and bypass the interchange area, though reasonably this would only get built if the NC-11 between I-42 and I-87 was incorporated into a 3d route of one of those interstates, and the priority for such a project alone is very low as the existing highways are plenty adequate. Keep in mind the section between Greenville and US-64, along with the construction of the US-64 freeway between NC-11 and Williamston, all in the past 20 years opened up a new 4-lane route to northeastern NC and Hampton Roads that did not previously exist.
Once I-87 is completed to Virginia, I could see the desire to upgrade NC-11, at least between Greenville and Bethel, in order to have direct interstate access to Hampton Roads, but that's decades away. Any limited money for interstate upgrade should be used to upgrade US-17 to interstate standards between Williamston and Virginia before the stretch of NC-11 is ever started.
Who the hell would choose this alternative for the future interchange redesign at I-440 and Glenwood?
Alternative 1 - Meh. Does its job but it's a little too curvy.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-1-map-1.pdf
Alternative 2 - Pretty cool, except the relocations.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-2-map-1.pdf
Alternative 3 - Similar to Alternative 2 but Glenwood ave roads don't curve. Is it better than Alternative 2 guys? comment down below!
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-3-map-1.pdf
Alternative 4 - Stupid. Who would like to have a divided road around a mall? Don't make it like 22 in New Jersey in Union.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-4-map-1.pdf
Alternative 5 - Stupid. Just like alternative 4.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-5-map-1.pdf
Alternative 6 - Adequate and nice improvements except with all the signals.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-6-map-1.pdf
Alternative 7 - Nice. Who likes roundabouts?!?!
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-7-map-1.pdf
I say I like 2 and 3 the best, although 6 and 7 would be nice as well.
Also, 1 is probably the cheapest and 2 and 3 are probably the most expensive because they are like completely redesigning interchanges and intersections, while the others (like alternative 4, 5, 6, and 7) are moderate improvements.
Alternative 1 is like minor improvements.
Like this!
_____________________________
Minor improvements
1
_____________________________
Moderate improvements
4
5
6
7
_____________________________
Major improvements
2
3
Quote from: formulanone on December 10, 2019, 07:23:15 AM
2) The traffic issues in Triad, Triangle, and Charlotte (vaguely in that order) seem to come first.
I've been following NC's growth and development for more than 2 decades (albeit from out of state) and there's been a pretty consistent pecking order when it comes to the state's roadway construction:
1. Raleigh/D metro
2. Pork paths to every possible BFE corner of eastern NC
3. Everybody else
.
.
.
.
99 Charlotte metro
Quote from: armadillo speedbump on December 13, 2019, 04:34:35 PM
Quote from: formulanone on December 10, 2019, 07:23:15 AM
2) The traffic issues in Triad, Triangle, and Charlotte (vaguely in that order) seem to come first.
I've been following NC's growth and development for more than 2 decades (albeit from out of state) and there's been a pretty consistent pecking order when it comes to the state's roadway construction:
1. Raleigh/D metro
2. Pork paths to every possible BFE corner of eastern NC
3. Everybody else
.
.
.
.
99 Charlotte metro
LOL!!! Ah, Charlotte had I-485 completed before 540 was near Holly Springs, it's reverse order there, Charlotte gets the road money before the Triangle, hell in even I-840 will give Greensboro a complete loop before 540 is even back at I-40 and still has the leg from 40 to 64/I-87 to be built.
Quote from: Roadsguy on December 10, 2019, 08:24:48 PM
The second feasibility study you linked includes on Page 5 some future ramps at the I-40/Wade Avenue interchange indicating a new road heading north from there labeled "Reedy Road." Page 2 mentions traffic entering I-40 EB from Reedy Creek Road, implying that this is at least a connector to that road. How long was this still proposed? I can't find any information on it, or at least what information there is is drowned out among talk of I-40 widening and the I-440 improvements.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25384
Quote from: armadillo speedbump on December 13, 2019, 04:34:35 PM
Quote from: formulanone on December 10, 2019, 07:23:15 AM
2) The traffic issues in Triad, Triangle, and Charlotte (vaguely in that order) seem to come first.
I've been following NC's growth and development for more than 2 decades (albeit from out of state) and there's been a pretty consistent pecking order when it comes to the state's roadway construction:
1. Raleigh/D metro
2. Pork paths to every possible BFE corner of eastern NC
3. Everybody else
.
.
.
.
99 Charlotte metro
This
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 11, 2019, 04:31:50 PM
Who the hell would choose this alternative for the future interchange redesign at I-440 and Glenwood?
Alternative 1 - Meh. Does its job but it's a little too curvy.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-1-map-1.pdf
Alternative 2 - Pretty cool, except the relocations.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-2-map-1.pdf
Alternative 3 - Similar to Alternative 2 but Glenwood ave roads don't curve. Is it better than Alternative 2 guys? comment down below!
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-3-map-1.pdf
Alternative 4 - Stupid. Who would like to have a divided road around a mall? Don't make it like 22 in New Jersey in Union.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-4-map-1.pdf
Alternative 5 - Stupid. Just like alternative 4.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-5-map-1.pdf
Alternative 6 - Adequate and nice improvements except with all the signals.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-6-map-1.pdf
Alternative 7 - Nice. Who likes roundabouts?!?!
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-7-map-1.pdf
I say I like 2 and 3 the best, although 6 and 7 would be nice as well.
Also, 1 is probably the cheapest and 2 and 3 are probably the most expensive because they are like completely redesigning interchanges and intersections, while the others (like alternative 4, 5, 6, and 7) are moderate improvements.
Alternative 1 is like minor improvements.
Like this!
_____________________________
Minor improvements
1
_____________________________
Moderate improvements
4
5
6
7
_____________________________
Major improvements
2
3
No answer to this anyone? Which number do you think is the best improvements to I-440 and Glenwood?
Would be nice to see if they converted goddamn I-540 into I-640 since there's TWO interstates that connect. I87 going to Norfolk maybe when that's finished, that should happen for sure. Also, NC540 should be renumbered as NC640. Will that ever happen folks?
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 21, 2019, 07:46:25 PM
Would be nice to see if they converted goddamn I-540 into I-640 since there's TWO interstates that connect. I87 going to Norfolk maybe when that's finished, that should happen for sure. Also, NC540 should be renumbered as NC640. Will that ever happen folks?
I think the vast majority of the motoring public probably doesn't know the difference between 3di numbers starting with odd versus even numbers, and would just see that as a renumbering for renumbering's sake. "Why did they change 540 to 640? 540 was a perfectly good number".
Probably best not to confuse the 97% who aren't road geeks instead of pleasing the 3% who are.
Even if I-540 didn't connect two interstates (i.e. if US 64 were never made into I-495 or I-87), it should still have been designated I-640 and NC 640 since it's a beltway, even if not all of it is an Interstate. It was clearly originally meant to be entirely Interstate before the toll road option was chosen, and I believe the plan is to remove the tolls when the road is paid off decades from now, so in that case then it will be able to be all-Interstate one day. I have no idea what they were thinking when they planned the number, since I-640 is still available and as far as I know was never planned to be used anywhere else.
That being said, as dlsterner said, they shouldn't change it now after the fact just to satisfy roadgeek OCD. Even decades from now when/if the tolls are removed and it's all eligible to become an Interstate, I wouldn't mind just making it all I-540, even though AASHTO would likely object.
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/R-2513_Feasibility-Study_estimate-update-memo_2010.pdf
This should be a full freeway, period. Traffic gets bad here and Vanceboro is in the middle of nowhere.
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_1202B_Report_2014.pdf
This would come really handy to the ones that go to the beaches. Do you think this project would be useful or a waste?
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 22, 2019, 11:18:01 AM
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/R-2513_Feasibility-Study_estimate-update-memo_2010.pdf
This should be a full freeway, period. Traffic gets bad here and Vanceboro is in the middle of nowhere.
A freeway between Vanceboro and Washington? NC has a LOT more important areas that money needs to be spent on before a freeway connecting two towns that barely have 10,000 people combined. A simple 4 lane divided highway here is quite enough.
Quote from: dlsterner on December 21, 2019, 10:59:07 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 21, 2019, 07:46:25 PM
Would be nice to see if they converted goddamn I-540 into I-640 since there's TWO interstates that connect. I87 going to Norfolk maybe when that's finished, that should happen for sure. Also, NC540 should be renumbered as NC640. Will that ever happen folks?
I think the vast majority of the motoring public probably doesn't know the difference between 3di numbers starting with odd versus even numbers, and would just see that as a renumbering for renumbering's sake. "Why did they change 540 to 640? 540 was a perfectly good number".
Probably best not to confuse the 97% who aren't road geeks instead of pleasing the 3% who are.
I agree with this based on recent experience in Northern Virginia. A couple of fairly prominent secondary routes (the Fairfax County, Prince William, and Franconia—Springfield Parkways) were all upgraded to state primary route status a few years ago, and all were renumbered to comply with VDOT standards. The Fairfax County Parkway, in particular, was a rare secondary road whose route number was well-known, largely because the radio traffic reporters usually referred to it by number (7100) instead of by name. So there were a lot of people who were confused and wondering "why did 7100 become 286?" (There were some signs up for a year or two noting the change.) An Interstate is that much more prominent than a local arterial route.
It's more of a practical matter than many of us probably realize because people on this forum tend to be informed as to these sorts of things. The average motorist out there isn't, especially in the sat-nav era.
Quote from: Mileage Mike on December 22, 2019, 01:20:42 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 22, 2019, 11:18:01 AM
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/R-2513_Feasibility-Study_estimate-update-memo_2010.pdf
This should be a full freeway, period. Traffic gets bad here and Vanceboro is in the middle of nowhere.
A freeway between Vanceboro and Washington? NC has a LOT more important areas that money needs to be spent on before a freeway connecting two towns that barely have 10,000 people combined. A simple 4 lane divided highway here is quite enough.
The reason why i'm talking about it should be a freeway because it's part of the proposed I-99 back in 2006.
Quote from: Mileage Mike on December 22, 2019, 01:20:42 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 22, 2019, 11:18:01 AM
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/R-2513_Feasibility-Study_estimate-update-memo_2010.pdf
This should be a full freeway, period. Traffic gets bad here and Vanceboro is in the middle of nowhere.
A freeway between Vanceboro and Washington? NC has a LOT more important areas that money needs to be spent on before a freeway connecting two towns that barely have 10,000 people combined. A simple 4 lane divided highway here is quite enough.
I would agree a freeway between Vanceboro and Washington makes little sense in and of itself but the south end of this proposed project appears to be where the north end of the future US 17 bypass of New Bern around the west side would be. The Vanceboro freeway project makes more sense if it is certain they will build this western New Bern Bypass which is likely a freeway.
Quote from: Mapmikey on December 22, 2019, 02:39:30 PM
Quote from: Mileage Mike on December 22, 2019, 01:20:42 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 22, 2019, 11:18:01 AM
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/R-2513_Feasibility-Study_estimate-update-memo_2010.pdf
This should be a full freeway, period. Traffic gets bad here and Vanceboro is in the middle of nowhere.
A freeway between Vanceboro and Washington? NC has a LOT more important areas that money needs to be spent on before a freeway connecting two towns that barely have 10,000 people combined. A simple 4 lane divided highway here is quite enough.
I would agree a freeway between Vanceboro and Washington makes little sense in and of itself but the south end of this proposed project appears to be where the north end of the future US 17 bypass of New Bern around the west side would be. The Vanceboro freeway project makes more sense if it is certain they will build this western New Bern Bypass which is likely a freeway.
This, and the fact that the long-range goal is to upgrade US-17 into a full freeway through the entire state, and this would be a piece.
But in all likelihood, it'll probably just be built a four-lane divided highway initially and upgraded later on when there's an active push for an interstate / freeway corridor through the entire state, just like all the other recently widened US-17 segments, such as Jacksonville to Maysville, Maysville to Pollocksville, segments south and north of Washington, and the upcoming Williamston to Washington project. Right now, I think the immediate goal is to complete the four-lane divided highway throughout the state to draw in more traffic, then in the long-run upgrade the four-lane divided highway to a full freeway.
The only active freeway push for US-17 are Wilmington <-> Myrtle Beach
(Carolina Bays Parkway), Pollocksville <-> south of Vanceboro
(New Bern Bypass), and Williamston <-> Virginia
(I-87). The rest is mere lines on a long-range vision map. The segments I've mentioned are being or have been actively studied.
Quote from: Mapmikey on December 22, 2019, 02:39:30 PM
Quote from: Mileage Mike on December 22, 2019, 01:20:42 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 22, 2019, 11:18:01 AM
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/R-2513_Feasibility-Study_estimate-update-memo_2010.pdf
This should be a full freeway, period. Traffic gets bad here and Vanceboro is in the middle of nowhere.
A freeway between Vanceboro and Washington? NC has a LOT more important areas that money needs to be spent on before a freeway connecting two towns that barely have 10,000 people combined. A simple 4 lane divided highway here is quite enough.
I would agree a freeway between Vanceboro and Washington makes little sense in and of itself but the south end of this proposed project appears to be where the north end of the future US 17 bypass of New Bern around the west side would be. The Vanceboro freeway project makes more sense if it is certain they will build this western New Bern Bypass which is likely a freeway.
There was an old document that I would put here if I can find it because NCDOT updated their website, it's gone and it's a lot harder to find now.
Also the western proposed bypass would demolish some of highway 43
(forcing a concurrency).https://books.google.com/books?id=fsg1AQAAMAAJ&pg=SA2-PA8&lpg=SA2-PA8&dq=%22new+bern+bypass%22+western&source=bl&ots=YJ17T-OSbu&sig=ACfU3U2KB_SEanIgYomCLma9qFQSmSCGKw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLgJmdgsrmAhXDQc0KHbszD14Q6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22new%20bern%20bypass%22%20western&f=false
This is part of the proposal but this is not what i wanted.
http://prntscr.com/qee0oq
this is part of it and i know alternatives 1,2,4, and 5 were chosen i'm sure.
^
https://ncdot.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=85d0eaebc9da403c907353f796ad3cb6
This map gives you a good idea of the most recent proposed alignments.
Just zoom to the area, click on "Content", and uncheck everything except "NCDOT NHS" to get an unobstructed view of its proposed alignment.
Here's a pic of it. The circled area is the area it would replace NC-43 across the Neuse River and associated wetlands to avoid the greater environmental impacts of building a whole new alignment & footprint.
(https://i.ibb.co/QdZWp5r/US17-New-Bern-North-Bypass.png)
^^^^
That's nice. So I'm guessing it was alternative 5 that would have been chosen.
_________________
http://prntscr.com/qeefok
Would there be any connection here? because this is another gap they need to fix when this becomes a whole freeway. They are widening 17 to 4 lanes as a expressway right now, but is there any ideas on how to make this a free-flowing interchange?
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 22, 2019, 11:51:35 AM
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_1202B_Report_2014.pdf
This would come really handy to the ones that go to the beaches. Do you think this project would be useful or a waste?
I'd be surprised if this sees the light of day, since upgrading US 70 into a six-lane freeway through James City seems to be further along in development. I suppose this could become I-242 if it's ever built, but it probably won't be necessary for a long time except perhaps as an at-grade expressway for improved local access.
Quote from: Roadsguy on December 22, 2019, 03:57:38 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 22, 2019, 11:51:35 AM
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_1202B_Report_2014.pdf
This would come really handy to the ones that go to the beaches. Do you think this project would be useful or a waste?
I'd be surprised if this sees the light of day, since upgrading US 70 into a six-lane freeway through James City seems to be further along in development. I suppose this could become I-242 if it's ever built, but it probably won't be necessary for a long time except perhaps as an at-grade expressway for improved local access.
I think this project was really meant as an alternative to the US-70 James City Improvements project, and since that project is now being built, this is probably a project that won't ever get built unless traffic congestion becomes an issue in New Bern and a bypass is warranted, which I don't see happening any time soon. Either way, any traffic congestion would be most problematic on the section that's only 4-lanes, and that could easily be expanded to 6-lanes to tie into this project, and again even that's many years off.
Several members of the Forum believe that "the long-range goal is to upgrade US-17 into a full freeway through the entire state." I simply don't see this in the actions and plans of NCDOT. Does anyone have a documentary reference for this idea?
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 22, 2019, 05:28:46 PM
Several members of the Forum believe that "the long-range goal is to upgrade US-17 into a full freeway through the entire state." I simply don't see this in the actions and plans of NCDOT. Does anyone have a documentary reference for this idea?
It's in the long-range plans of each county's CTP, and on the statewide one released over a decade ago as a freeway.
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 22, 2019, 05:30:24 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 22, 2019, 05:28:46 PM
Several members of the Forum believe that "the long-range goal is to upgrade US-17 into a full freeway through the entire state." I simply don't see this in the actions and plans of NCDOT. Does anyone have a documentary reference for this idea?
It's in the long-range plans of each county's CTP, and on the statewide one released over a decade ago as a freeway.
Does anyone have a link?
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 22, 2019, 05:33:22 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 22, 2019, 05:30:24 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 22, 2019, 05:28:46 PM
Several members of the Forum believe that "the long-range goal is to upgrade US-17 into a full freeway through the entire state." I simply don't see this in the actions and plans of NCDOT. Does anyone have a documentary reference for this idea?
It's in the long-range plans of each county's CTP, and on the statewide one released over a decade ago as a freeway.
Does anyone have a link?
This was all I could find. See page 4:
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/STC%20Documents/CoordP-2018-05-24_NewBern-TAC.pdf (https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/STC%20Documents/CoordP-2018-05-24_NewBern-TAC.pdf)
Quote from: LM117 on December 22, 2019, 05:34:34 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 22, 2019, 05:33:22 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 22, 2019, 05:30:24 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 22, 2019, 05:28:46 PM
Several members of the Forum believe that "the long-range goal is to upgrade US-17 into a full freeway through the entire state." I simply don't see this in the actions and plans of NCDOT. Does anyone have a documentary reference for this idea?
It's in the long-range plans of each county's CTP, and on the statewide one released over a decade ago as a freeway.
Does anyone have a link?
This was all I could find. See page 4:
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/STC%20Documents/CoordP-2018-05-24_NewBern-TAC.pdf (https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/STC%20Documents/CoordP-2018-05-24_NewBern-TAC.pdf)
And when looking at Corridor X, does that mean all of it is going to be a freeway?
http://prntscr.com/qefru9
All i know is this part is not going to be built as a freeway. Planes were adjusted recently.
Quote from: LM117 on December 22, 2019, 05:34:34 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 22, 2019, 05:33:22 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 22, 2019, 05:30:24 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 22, 2019, 05:28:46 PM
Several members of the Forum believe that "the long-range goal is to upgrade US-17 into a full freeway through the entire state." I simply don't see this in the actions and plans of NCDOT. Does anyone have a documentary reference for this idea?
It's in the long-range plans of each county's CTP, and on the statewide one released over a decade ago as a freeway.
Does anyone have a link?
This was all I could find. See page 4:
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/STC%20Documents/CoordP-2018-05-24_NewBern-TAC.pdf (https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/STC%20Documents/CoordP-2018-05-24_NewBern-TAC.pdf)
Here's a higher quality copy of it from an I-74 Feasibility Study (the one that won't ever get built) on Page 31
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-74-study/Documents/i74_feasibility_study_report.pdf
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 22, 2019, 05:37:16 PM
Quote from: LM117 on December 22, 2019, 05:34:34 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 22, 2019, 05:33:22 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 22, 2019, 05:30:24 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 22, 2019, 05:28:46 PM
Several members of the Forum believe that "the long-range goal is to upgrade US-17 into a full freeway through the entire state." I simply don't see this in the actions and plans of NCDOT. Does anyone have a documentary reference for this idea?
It's in the long-range plans of each county's CTP, and on the statewide one released over a decade ago as a freeway.
Does anyone have a link?
This was all I could find. See page 4:
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/STC%20Documents/CoordP-2018-05-24_NewBern-TAC.pdf (https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/STC%20Documents/CoordP-2018-05-24_NewBern-TAC.pdf)
And when looking at Corridor X, does that mean all of it is going to be a freeway?
http://prntscr.com/qefru9
All i know is this part is not going to be built as a freeway. Planes were adjusted recently.
While the long-range plan gives a good idea of what the big picture is ultimately going to be, there are some corridors that do not make logical sense to be freeways, such as that section.
NC-11 / US-13, US-158, I-74 to Myrtle Beach, NC-11 south of Kinston, US-264 west of Greenville, US-64 west of Williamston, NC-24 between Clinton and I-40, are all examples of corridors that are never going to realistically happen.
The plan also misses corridors that -do- have logical warrant to be freeways, such as NC-24 between Jacksonville / Morehead City and I-40 and NC-87 between Fayetteville and Sanford.
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 22, 2019, 05:38:19 PM
Quote from: LM117 on December 22, 2019, 05:34:34 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 22, 2019, 05:33:22 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 22, 2019, 05:30:24 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 22, 2019, 05:28:46 PM
Several members of the Forum believe that "the long-range goal is to upgrade US-17 into a full freeway through the entire state." I simply don't see this in the actions and plans of NCDOT. Does anyone have a documentary reference for this idea?
It's in the long-range plans of each county's CTP, and on the statewide one released over a decade ago as a freeway.
Does anyone have a link?
This was all I could find. See page 4:
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/STC%20Documents/CoordP-2018-05-24_NewBern-TAC.pdf (https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/STC%20Documents/CoordP-2018-05-24_NewBern-TAC.pdf)
Here's a higher quality copy of it from an I-74 Feasibility Study (the one that won't ever get built) on Page 31
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-74-study/Documents/i74_feasibility_study_report.pdf
That was also the one that hasn't been updated.
(https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/PublishingImages/SHC_Vision_Plan.jpg)
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 22, 2019, 05:42:24 PM
That was also the one that hasn't been updated.
Fair enough.
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 22, 2019, 05:41:57 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 22, 2019, 05:37:16 PM
Quote from: LM117 on December 22, 2019, 05:34:34 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 22, 2019, 05:33:22 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 22, 2019, 05:30:24 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 22, 2019, 05:28:46 PM
Several members of the Forum believe that "the long-range goal is to upgrade US-17 into a full freeway through the entire state." I simply don't see this in the actions and plans of NCDOT. Does anyone have a documentary reference for this idea?
It's in the long-range plans of each county's CTP, and on the statewide one released over a decade ago as a freeway.
Does anyone have a link?
This was all I could find. See page 4:
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/STC%20Documents/CoordP-2018-05-24_NewBern-TAC.pdf (https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/STC%20Documents/CoordP-2018-05-24_NewBern-TAC.pdf)
And when looking at Corridor X, does that mean all of it is going to be a freeway?
http://prntscr.com/qefru9
All i know is this part is not going to be built as a freeway. Planes were adjusted recently.
The plan also misses corridors that -do- have logical warrant to be freeways, such as NC-24 between Jacksonville / Morehead City and I-40 and NC-87 between Fayetteville and Sanford.
NC-24, I'm sure would be difficult to make a freeway (maybe an urban freeway though). Although, I can find some old plans like this.
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/R-4721_Feasibility-Study_0102A_Report_2002.pdf
As for NC-87, This is what I found.
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/FS-1106A_Feasibility-Study_Spring_Lake_Loop_2014.pdf
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 22, 2019, 05:46:38 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 22, 2019, 05:42:24 PM
That was also the one that hasn't been updated.
Fair enough.
But when looking at the differences between the 2004 and 2008 maps, US-64 between Pittsboro and Apex changed to upgrade from the expressway to a freeway design.
They did the same thing near Waynesville and Fayetteville.
I think they should do another revision to that map now that Interstates 42, 87 and 587 have been approved. And they should get rid of the Interstate 20 extension to Wilmington, since I highly doubt 20 will ever go east of Interstate 95 in Florence, SC.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 23, 2019, 03:56:03 PM
And they should get rid of the Interstate 20 extension to Wilmington, since I highly doubt 20 will ever go east of Interstate 95 in Florence, SC.
It won't, and there's no need. I-95 to I-74 is an all-interstate route and is perfectly adequate.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 23, 2019, 03:56:03 PM
I think they should do another revision to that map now that Interstates 42, 87 and 587 have been approved. And they should get rid of the Interstate 20 extension to Wilmington, since I highly doubt 20 will ever go east of Interstate 95 in Florence, SC.
Obviously, it's bout time for an update now. But I think using this would show the counties of the highway proposals that may happen in the future.
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/Pages/Comprehensive-Transportation-Plans.aspx
Wake and Onslow counties need one badly IMO. Even Craven.
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/TPBCTP/Jones%20County/5_Highway_Sheet_wALTs.pdf
This is jones, and it shows the proposed US-70 New Bern bypass.
This is duplin, and here's the 2010 plan
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/TPBCTP/Beulaville/Beulaville_Highway_Map_FINAL.pdf
And this is the 2018 where it removes the Beulaville bypass as a freeway.
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/TPBCTP/Duplin%20County/Recommended%20Duplin%20County%20Highway%20Maps.pdf
This plan for the US 1 corridor study, what is wrong with this document?
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/us-1-corridor/Documents/us1_corridor_report.pdf
http://prntscr.com/qfn77u
This interchange looks so much better (with the exception of the frontage roads connecting to the ramp) than what they have right now when looking at this one.
http://prntscr.com/qfn7m1
Why is that flyover so huge and it looks like a U shape?
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/capital-boulevard-upgrade/Documents/i-540-perry-creek-road.pdf
http://ci.winston-salem.nc.us/Portals/0/pdf/transportation/US%2052%20Land%20Use%20Trans%20Plan/Fig%207-2S.pdf?ver=2017-02-14-150223-637
Can they bring this damn project back to life? Because I'm sure it's needed! With the exception of they put a diverging diamond interchange at Salem Creek.
and for this interchange,
http://prntscr.com/qg3qg9
It needs a flyover from US 52 south to I-40 East.
And this project also shows that they would bring back the 3rd, 4th, and 5th st ramps back after they have been removed to prevent weaving.
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 02:16:48 PM
http://ci.winston-salem.nc.us/Portals/0/pdf/transportation/US%2052%20Land%20Use%20Trans%20Plan/Fig%207-2S.pdf?ver=2017-02-14-150223-637
Can they bring this damn project back to life? Because I'm sure it's needed! With the exception of they put a diverging diamond interchange at Salem Creek.
and for this interchange,
http://prntscr.com/qg3qg9
It needs a flyover from US 52 south to I-40 East.
And this project also shows that they would bring back the 3rd, 4th, and 5th st ramps back after they have been removed to prevent weaving.
I'm pretty sure that is a future project, to upgrade US-52 to interstate standards, and convert it into I-285 up to where I-74 will tie in with the Winston-Salem Beltway.
Will not start for years though.
The Beltway should provide relief to that corridor when it's completed.
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 26, 2019, 02:19:57 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 02:16:48 PM
http://ci.winston-salem.nc.us/Portals/0/pdf/transportation/US%2052%20Land%20Use%20Trans%20Plan/Fig%207-2S.pdf?ver=2017-02-14-150223-637
Can they bring this damn project back to life? Because I'm sure it's needed! With the exception of they put a diverging diamond interchange at Salem Creek.
and for this interchange,
http://prntscr.com/qg3qg9
It needs a flyover from US 52 south to I-40 East.
And this project also shows that they would bring back the 3rd, 4th, and 5th st ramps back after they have been removed to prevent weaving.
I'm pretty sure that is a future project, to upgrade US-52 to interstate standards, and convert it into I-285 up to where I-74 will tie in with the Winston-Salem Beltway.
Will not start for years though.
The Beltway should provide relief to that corridor when it's completed.
They should have left space at this interchange
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/wsnb/Documents/eastern-section-7-map-2.pdf
For this.
http://prntscr.com/qg3u3j
I'm sure this would relieve congestion greatly.
Also, I-74 can get moved back on its old alignment and go like this (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.0516149,-80.1330543/36.19884,-80.2923935/@36.07339,-80.2326516,13.5z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0l).
And just call the northern beltway I-274.
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 02:30:03 PM
They should have left space at this interchange
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/wsnb/Documents/eastern-section-7-map-2.pdf
For this.
http://prntscr.com/qg3u3j
It appears there's plenty of room to tie in another freeway if desired in the future.
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 02:30:03 PM
Also, I-74 can get moved back on its old alignment and go like this (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.0516149,-80.1330543/36.19884,-80.2923935/@36.07339,-80.2326516,13.5z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0l).
And just call the northern beltway I-274.
I don't see why I-74 would need to be routed through Downtown.
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 26, 2019, 02:33:49 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 02:30:03 PM
They should have left space at this interchange
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/wsnb/Documents/eastern-section-7-map-2.pdf
For this.
http://prntscr.com/qg3u3j
It appears there's plenty of room to tie in another freeway if desired in the future.
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 02:30:03 PM
Also, I-74 can get moved back on its old alignment and go like this (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.0516149,-80.1330543/36.19884,-80.2923935/@36.07339,-80.2326516,13.5z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0l).
And just call the northern beltway I-274.
I don't see why I-74 would need to be routed through Downtown.
Because usually parent routes go through downtown and 3di's are spurs or bypasses.
Once Interstate 74 is rerouted onto its proposed route along the Winston-Salem Beltway, the orphaned portion of 74 should be designated Interstate 474. Also, maybe the portion of future Interstate 274 between US 158 and Interstate 40 should be signed as NC 274 since it will not connect with another Interstate at its southern end.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 26, 2019, 04:18:21 PM
Once Interstate 74 is rerouted onto its proposed route along the Winston-Salem Beltway, the orphaned portion of 74 should be designated Interstate 474. Also, maybe the portion of future Interstate 274 between US 158 and Interstate 40 should be signed as NC 274 since it will not connect with another Interstate at its southern end.
Currently the orphaned piece is slated to become NC 192...
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 26, 2019, 04:18:21 PM
Once Interstate 74 is rerouted onto its proposed route along the Winston-Salem Beltway, the orphaned portion of 74 should be designated Interstate 474. Also, maybe the portion of future Interstate 274 between US 158 and Interstate 40 should be signed as NC 274 since it will not connect with another Interstate at its southern end.
It's already been confirmed (https://www.journalnow.com/news/local/u-s-to-high-point-is-going-away-but-don/article_8c365cc0-b7d7-58f6-8ed5-732f633b299a.html) that the orphaned section of I-74 will become NC 192. Not sure where that number in particular came from, but if the US 311 truncation was a recent development, it was probably expected to return to just being US 311. It's not really long enough to be worth applying for an Interstate designation, and making it NC 192 leaves open the possibility to just extend it up the future surface boulevard to US 421 at the US 158 split (if that project ever sees the light of day) without yet another goofy I-X/NC X setup.
The approved Future I-274 already covers the entire western section down to US 158, but that doesn't mean plans can't change when proper I-274 is ultimately approved. Leaving that last section as NC 452 (the interim designation until it's all finished) seems like a very NCDOT thing to do, but I don't see that happening.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 26, 2019, 04:18:21 PM
since it will not connect with another Interstate at its southern end.
I-264 in Virginia (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.7859023,-76.4048007/36.8473884,-75.9860362/@36.824141,-76.1913514,11.71z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0!5m1!1e1)...
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 26, 2019, 05:28:24 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 26, 2019, 04:18:21 PM
since it will not connect with another Interstate at its southern end.
I-264 in Virginia (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.7859023,-76.4048007/36.8473884,-75.9860362/@36.824141,-76.1913514,11.71z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0!5m1!1e1)...
I'm sure he's talking about this (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/wsnb/Documents/WesternSection1.pdf).
I say don't call it NC 274, just name it "I-274 Connector" or something.
Something similar to this (https://www.google.com/maps/place/I-85+Connector,+Charlotte,+NC/@35.2842756,-80.768912,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x88541e6223dcf4a9:0xab8cfbf5e3fc5906!8m2!3d35.284372!4d-80.7674421) or it could just be unnamed and they would probably call it just ramps to I-274 and I-40.
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 05:38:30 PM
I'm sure he's talking about this (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/wsnb/Documents/WesternSection1.pdf).
I say don't call it NC 274, just name it "I-274 Connector" or something.
That's what I'm referring to... an even route number can continue on once crossing two interstate routes and have a terminus at a non-interstate route
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 05:38:30 PM
Something similar to this (https://www.google.com/maps/place/I-85+Connector,+Charlotte,+NC/@35.2842756,-80.768912,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x88541e6223dcf4a9:0xab8cfbf5e3fc5906!8m2!3d35.284372!4d-80.7674421) or it could just be unnamed and they would probably call it just ramps to I-274 and I-40.
Different, because that was originally apart of a pre-existing US-29 bypass built in the 1950s before I-85 through the Charlotte area... Most of it was upgraded and incorporated into I-85 by 1958 from the airport eastwards to the present day stub, though when I-85 was extended further north by 1972 on new alignment, that segment was left over and is merely a ramp. In the case of I-274, it's still a continuous route, not a ramp.
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 02:38:53 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 26, 2019, 02:33:49 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 02:30:03 PM
They should have left space at this interchange
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/wsnb/Documents/eastern-section-7-map-2.pdf
For this.
http://prntscr.com/qg3u3j
It appears there's plenty of room to tie in another freeway if desired in the future.
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 02:30:03 PM
Also, I-74 can get moved back on its old alignment and go like this (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.0516149,-80.1330543/36.19884,-80.2923935/@36.07339,-80.2326516,13.5z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0l).
And just call the northern beltway I-274.
I don't see why I-74 would need to be routed through Downtown.
Because usually parent routes go through downtown and 3di's are spurs or bypasses.
Well not so much in North Carolina, where the major 2-di interstates (I-40, I-85, and I-95) have all been routed away from downtowns.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 26, 2019, 06:55:28 PM
Well not so much in North Carolina, where the major 2-di interstates (I-40, I-85, and I-95) have all been routed away from downtowns.
I-73 was routed away from Greensboro (follows the loop rather than US-220 and I-40), and now I-74 will be with Winston-Salem.
IMO, it works either way. As long as there's a bypass route and a route thru, that's all that matters. What it's numbered is beyond me as a motorist.
I think the point of routing the 2-di's on the bypasses is to divert as much thru traffic as possible. With the case of I-40 around Winston-Salem, I-85 around Greensboro, and now I-74 around Winston-Salem, it's all designed with continuity for thru traffic to follow the bypass.
I-40 still goes through Greensboro.
Well I mean it's not like too close to what Winston-Salem is, but it goes close to the downtown area.
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 07:07:23 PM
I-40 still goes through Greensboro.
Well I mean it's not like too close to what Winston-Salem is, but it goes close to the downtown area.
They tried moving I-40 onto the loop in 2008, but there was so much bad noise made about it that they moved it back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_Urban_Loop#Interstate_40_relocation
Quote from: Finrod on December 27, 2019, 09:37:19 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 07:07:23 PM
I-40 still goes through Greensboro.
Well I mean it's not like too close to what Winston-Salem is, but it goes close to the downtown area.
They tried moving I-40 onto the loop in 2008, but there was so much bad noise made about it that they moved it back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_Urban_Loop#Interstate_40_relocation
I guessential it's fine the way it is. It's not worth it to move it onto the loop again.
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/I-5110_Feasibility-Study-0507A_Report_2008.pdf
When looking at this, wouldn't alternative 4 be better than 1 so it's not a big mess?
Alternatives 2 and 3 would both be non-starters though.
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 28, 2019, 05:24:17 PM
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/I-5110_Feasibility-Study-0507A_Report_2008.pdf
When looking at this, wouldn't alternative 4 be better than 1 so it's not a big mess?
Alternatives 2 and 3 would both be non-starters though.
Alternative 1 would be the best alternative...
...because that's what got built.
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1310515,-79.9494572,4295m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1
Interesting that they planned for a future airport connector to the west towards Winston-Salem. I don't think I've seen any mention of that anywhere else previously.
Quote from: Finrod on December 30, 2019, 09:59:35 AM
Interesting that they planned for a future airport connector to the west towards Winston-Salem. I don't think I've seen any mention of that anywhere else previously.
It looks like it got scrapped.
I'm glad the airport connect was scrapped. The only useful connection would have been at the I-40/ Salem Parkway split. There just simply isn't enough traffic demand. At this point the Triad should start focusing on meaningful non-freeway projects like widening US 70 between Burlington and Greensboro, the Jamestown Bypass, and the widening of Market Street/ E Mountain Street in Kernersville. I would even like to see an extension of Cone Blvd to the east that ties into NC 100 north of Gibsonville. These projects improve connectivity, improve safety by reducing freeway traffic, and enhance regional cohesion which is something the Triad doesn't have.
Quote from: tjcreasy on December 30, 2019, 02:20:23 PM
I'm glad the airport connect was scrapped. The only useful connection would have been at the I-40/ Salem Parkway split. There just simply isn't enough traffic demand. At this point the Triad should start focusing on meaningful non-freeway projects like widening US 70 between Burlington and Greensboro, the Jamestown Bypass, and the widening of Market Street/ E Mountain Street in Kernersville. I would even like to see an extension of Cone Blvd to the east that ties into NC 100 north of Gibsonville. These projects improve connectivity, improve safety by reducing freeway traffic, and enhance regional cohesion which is something the Triad doesn't have.
A small freeway segment between I-40 at Salem Parkway and I-73 at NC-68 near the airport would be useful, but the remainder isn't needed. Focus should be put on freeway widening projects, such as I-40 and Salem Parkway to 6-lanes, and as you mentioned non-freeway roadways as well. A previous proposed freeway / expressway down to High Point extending from that I-40 to I-73 freeway would also provide better regional connectivity from western Greensboro to High Point, bypassing a congested segment of NC-68.
Yeah I agree with your post, specifically the I-40/Salem Parkway widenings. A long time ago my Transportation Engineering professor told us one day in class about his involvement with the design of "new" 40. The biggest takeaway from him that day was that "new" 40 was overcapacity the day it opened.
Quote from: tjcreasy on December 30, 2019, 06:57:30 PM
The biggest takeaway from him that day was that "new" 40 was overcapacity the day it opened.
Based on traffic volumes, the segment of the I-40 Winston-Salem Bypass between I-40 / US-421 on the west side to I-74 that's currently 6-lanes needs 8-lanes, and the segment between I-74 and I-40 / US-421 on the east side that's currently 4-lanes needs 6-lanes.
The US-421 Salem Parkway would needs 6-lanes throughout.
http://prntscr.com/qhrxcr
When talking about I-840 and the connector, I would like to put it here.
Is there still enough space to make this interchange and have a ring road here?
http://prntscr.com/qhryqi
This is the other end of it and this area, they recently built new apartments here so this would have to be relocated. How would a real connection work?
https://www.pittcountync.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Minutes/_10142019-644
I HATE ROUNDABOUTS!!!! Use the Signalized intersection at signature dr and and Worthington dr. Roundabouts slow traffic down too much. I'm sure I've seen people drive 70 mph in that area.
Roundabouts are seriously overkill in my opinion.
I just wish there was more progress on widening I-40 from exit 100 to exit 153, it's such a clogged mess.
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on December 31, 2019, 09:42:16 PM
I just wish there was more progress on widening I-40 from exit 100 to exit 153, it's such a clogged mess.
Make all of I-40 to 6 lanes even west of there. To Asheville and to Waynesville! That part might need 8 lanes though.
US 264 I-587 North-South designation sucks. they need to change that.
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/U-3430_Feasibility-Study_Report_1996.pdf
I'm pretty sure this damn project would be useful. But it got expanded out I'm sure.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Documents/U5716_rdy_phm_Alt-1A.pdf
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Documents/U5716_rdy_phm_Alt-3.pdf
Which is better?
This is a nice Kinston-Greenville Freeway idea.
http://files.www.campo-nc.us/programs-studies/hot-spots/NC_55_Bypass/FINAL_I-40-540_CAMPO_Report_111417.pdf
Who thinks this improvement would come in cool? It's heavily congested around here and some major improvements here are needed.
This is to increase weaving distances and increase safety. In my opinion, Alternative 6 or 7 are good. I'm not sure about Alternative 5... It looks kinda weird...
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/40-440-us-1-interchange/Documents/meeting-map-interchange-concept-1.pdf
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/40-440-us-1-interchange/Documents/meeting-map-interchange-concept-2.pdf
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/40-440-us-1-interchange/Documents/meeting-map-interchange-concept-3.pdf
Concept 3 is the winner because it's the most simple and has no weird left exits.
Concept 1 is good too but I'm not sure how people would do because of the fast moving traffic when merging onto the freeway with the left exits.
Concept 2 is ok because the interchange itself looks kind of weird because normally when going left, I usually like the flyover on the left side and the eastbound ramp on the right side. That concept shows them on the opposite sides which I don't like, also it does some impacts to South Hills Mall and Plaza.
Also, should the damn NC 11 bypass US 264 future I-587 interchange be a damn 2-level stack?? I'm just askin'.
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 05, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
Also, should the damn NC 11 bypass US 264 future I-587 interchange be a damn 2-level stack?? I'm just askin'.
No.
https://jumpo-nc.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/NC24_Final_April_2013.pdf
http://prntscr.com/rd6wm0
Can't find the file that links to the proposed US 17 improvements in Jacksonville so i linked this. It's terrible quality but you can see some of the gradings and it would be like this:
http://prntscr.com/rd6xga
It was probably on the old public meetings but when NCDOT updated there website, it's extremely difficult to find the old projects.
Yes, make it a two level stack. Also known as a cloverleaf.
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 05, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 05, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
Also, should the damn NC 11 bypass US 264 future I-587 interchange be a damn 2-level stack?? I'm just askin'.
No.
Why? AADT is increasing on those loops so it's not a good candidate?
Also, I think it might be a good time to lock this thread.
Why is more than a year after the most recent post a good time?
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 02:24:34 PM
Why is more than a year after the most recent post a good time?
Cause I was asking sprjus4 a question.
So you want it to be locked without getting a reply to your question?
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 02:26:57 PM
So you want it to be locked without getting a reply to your question?
When he answers it first at least.
But why lock it? It wasn't exactly getting out of hand. Quite the opposite.
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 02:37:25 PM
But why lock it? It wasn't exactly getting out of hand. Quite the opposite.
So I guess it's fine if it stays open
Well an angry rant would be "Why does I-85 look so dated?" or Why does the US-13/264ALT widening project look incomplete?
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 25, 2021, 02:57:24 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 02:37:25 PM
But why lock it? It wasn't exactly getting out of hand. Quite the opposite.
So I guess it's fine if it stays open
Well an angry rant would be "Why does I-85 look so dated?" or Why does the US-13/264ALT widening project look incomplete?
Oof...
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_0707B_Report-2012.pdf
How are they going to build an interchange on I-40 with an apartment complex in the way?
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/h45rv9rU4lBouxtxkH/200.gif)
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 08, 2021, 06:34:17 PM
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_0707B_Report-2012.pdf
How are they going to build an interchange on I-40 with an apartment complex in the way?
So...you're taking a 2012 document and applying it wholesale to 2020. Those apartments didn't exist until about 2015 per historicaerials.com. Also this was clearly shown in the study on the conceptual design imposed over satellite view on pg. 134.
Instead of building a time machine and doing the project before the apartments were built, they altered the interchange design.
Take this web address and bookmark it - https://www.ncdot.gov/initiatives-policies/Transportation/stip/Pages/stip-projects-map.aspx - so that you can check whether a past feasibility studty is turned into a STIP item. Then take the project number and search the ncdot site and you'll get good information like this: https://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Pages/I-5980-2018-11-15.aspx
There are 2 alternatives and neither involves the apartments' footprint. And the interchange is for its own sake and not part of anything from the feasibility study...
Quote from: Mapmikey on April 08, 2021, 08:39:36 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 08, 2021, 06:34:17 PM
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_0707B_Report-2012.pdf
How are they going to build an interchange on I-40 with an apartment complex in the way?
So...you're taking a 2012 document and applying it wholesale to 2020. Those apartments didn't exist until about 2015 per historicaerials.com. Also this was clearly shown in the study on the conceptual design imposed over satellite view on pg. 134.
Instead of building a time machine and doing the project before the apartments were built, they altered the interchange design.
Take this web address and bookmark it - https://www.ncdot.gov/initiatives-policies/Transportation/stip/Pages/stip-projects-map.aspx - so that you can check whether a past feasibility studty is turned into a STIP item. Then take the project number and search the ncdot site and you'll get good information like this: https://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Pages/I-5980-2018-11-15.aspx
There are 2 alternatives and neither involves the apartments' footprint. And the interchange is for its own sake and not part of anything from the feasibility study...
They can just connect I-40 to I-73. Simple!
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 09, 2021, 09:12:33 AM
They can just connect I-40 to I-73. Simple!
I think that you missed the point that I-73 is already complete and signed in that area. After completion of the southwest portion of the Greensboro bypass, both I-40 and I-73 ran concurrent, but I-40 was moved back onto the Death Valley expressway after the freeway was widened west of there.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 10, 2019, 06:17:31 PM
Quote from: vdeane on December 10, 2019, 01:42:08 PM
And when will they do that? I-26 has been sitting for so long that IMO the portion going into TN shouldn't have been designated at all - at least not until this was done.
Maybe NC and other states would be less gung ho about getting new interstate corridors if they actually had to follow through before they could start benefiting. It annoys me how so many interstates are in disarray because of segments that won't be built for a long time, if ever. IMO an interstate shouldn't be allowed to be signed if the addition to the system only makes sense if some other project gets built some day. Requiring that the system be coherent 100% of the time, with no allowances for planned projects, would protect against things like this.
NCDOT has not ignored the need to rebuild the I-26/I-240 connections in Asheville; it has been working on this problem for many years. The problem has been that Asheville is NIMBY heaven and NCDOT has had to fight over and over again to make any progress. However, a plan is now in place and work could begin as soon as 2021 unless there's yet another hangup.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/asheville-i-26-connector/Pages/default.aspx
...and the website says it still
HAS NOT begun yet.
Should have been built as a four-level stack but they chose to keep the same design, just an upgraded one.
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 17, 2021, 12:43:03 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 10, 2019, 06:17:31 PM
Quote from: vdeane on December 10, 2019, 01:42:08 PM
And when will they do that? I-26 has been sitting for so long that IMO the portion going into TN shouldn't have been designated at all - at least not until this was done.
Maybe NC and other states would be less gung ho about getting new interstate corridors if they actually had to follow through before they could start benefiting. It annoys me how so many interstates are in disarray because of segments that won't be built for a long time, if ever. IMO an interstate shouldn't be allowed to be signed if the addition to the system only makes sense if some other project gets built some day. Requiring that the system be coherent 100% of the time, with no allowances for planned projects, would protect against things like this.
NCDOT has not ignored the need to rebuild the I-26/I-240 connections in Asheville; it has been working on this problem for many years. The problem has been that Asheville is NIMBY heaven and NCDOT has had to fight over and over again to make any progress. However, a plan is now in place and work could begin as soon as 2021 unless there's yet another hangup.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/asheville-i-26-connector/Pages/default.aspx
...and the website says it still HAS NOT begun yet.
This project is a prototypical NIMBY horror show. Determined and well funded opposition has delayed the project many years and multiplied its cost so many times that funding shortfalls have delayed it even more. Only the glaringly obvious need for the project has kept NCDOT plugging away, revising and revising, to get to a point where construction appears possible.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on July 21, 2021, 06:19:48 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 17, 2021, 12:43:03 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 10, 2019, 06:17:31 PM
Quote from: vdeane on December 10, 2019, 01:42:08 PM
And when will they do that? I-26 has been sitting for so long that IMO the portion going into TN shouldn't have been designated at all - at least not until this was done.
Maybe NC and other states would be less gung ho about getting new interstate corridors if they actually had to follow through before they could start benefiting. It annoys me how so many interstates are in disarray because of segments that won't be built for a long time, if ever. IMO an interstate shouldn't be allowed to be signed if the addition to the system only makes sense if some other project gets built some day. Requiring that the system be coherent 100% of the time, with no allowances for planned projects, would protect against things like this.
NCDOT has not ignored the need to rebuild the I-26/I-240 connections in Asheville; it has been working on this problem for many years. The problem has been that Asheville is NIMBY heaven and NCDOT has had to fight over and over again to make any progress. However, a plan is now in place and work could begin as soon as 2021 unless there's yet another hangup.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/asheville-i-26-connector/Pages/default.aspx
...and the website says it still HAS NOT begun yet.
This project is a prototypical NIMBY horror show. Determined and well funded opposition has delayed the project many years and multiplied its cost so many times that funding shortfalls have delayed it even more. Only the glaringly obvious need for the project has kept NCDOT plugging away, revising and revising, to get to a point where construction appears possible.
I like D1 the best when looking atthis (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/asheville-i-26-connector/Documents/feis-appendix-f3.pdf), but i'm guessing they kept the same design for minimal ROW.
So I see Greenville Blvd get backed up every day with cars sitting on the road (yes when ECU is in session) and Arlington Blvd/Dickinson Ave clogged, which means that intersection warrants an interchange? They have a survey, which I'm sure improvements are desperately needed.
The City of Greenville DOES have plans to widen Arlington Blvd to six lanes, I just don't know when they are going to do it.
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 24, 2021, 01:07:54 PM
So I see Greenville Blvd get backed up every day with cars sitting on the road (yes when ECU is in session) and Arlington Blvd/Dickinson Ave clogged, which means that intersection warrants an interchange? They have a survey, which I'm sure improvements are desperately needed.
The City of Greenville DOES have plans to widen Arlington Blvd to six lanes, I just don't know when they are going to do it.
If clogged traffic warrants an interchange, we'd see housing developments with interchanges onto county roads.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 24, 2021, 01:14:10 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 24, 2021, 01:07:54 PM
So I see Greenville Blvd get backed up every day with cars sitting on the road (yes when ECU is in session) and Arlington Blvd/Dickinson Ave clogged, which means that intersection warrants an interchange? They have a survey, which I'm sure improvements are desperately needed.
The City of Greenville DOES have plans to widen Arlington Blvd to six lanes, I just don't know when they are going to do it.
If clogged traffic warrants an interchange, we'd see housing developments with interchanges onto county roads.
Like where at?
I found the links of the northern end of the New Bern Bypass here: They are from 1998 though. What are you guys's opinions on this?
https://web.archive.org/web/20150130041524/http://www.ncdot.gov/download/projects/publichearings/R2301a_1_comp.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20170131133032/https://www.ncdot.gov/download/projects/publichearings/R2301a_2_comp.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20170215105704/https://www.ncdot.gov/download/projects/publichearings/R2301a_3_comp.pdf This is where the northern end starts
https://web.archive.org/web/20170202122821/https://www.ncdot.gov/download/projects/publichearings/R2301a_4_comp.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20170203060722/https://www.ncdot.gov/download/projects/publichearings/R2301a_5_comp.pdf
Is the I-73 airport connector still in the plans??? These were planned 11 months ago and it still shows that the airport connector is in the studies. And when looking at it, I feel like it's gonna tie to the Winston-Salem Northern Beltway.
Map 1 (https://ago-item-storage.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/4eeae99c5c354bf5a2ea433c4921cc4b/01_HighwayFacilityTypes_GUAMPO.pdf?X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEND%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCXVzLWVhc3QtMSJGMEQCIFlpj3%2B4psdoKOJ0XLQK86%2F4Eo5HYsFUXuaTIGTvsR4%2BAiB64sIJkvEuvJ24npx2%2FU0eOP9wZjOtPibnDX5JS7vt%2Fyr6AwhpEAAaDDYwNDc1ODEwMjY2NSIMw6FYdH%2B1Kn5whrolKtcDjYeF2T71ZwNMNZSxZ7qEr0DEuXRzedIAUj9pX85hgA9UL46T9WdzNkAQ5EPVsEAsKQYtXS2UIEVdK4du5LAIbaFUi%2BjFKJ4xj3DL7FIT1zHc4o301P%2BGDN9E0cQLx41LRbc8d8F2W2xVK%2By5yTumO7WeHUs3C4%2BD%2B5jmXlheQAhN%2F6Ku54DF8H4TR9gTOUKYMVR7EI1v3y7IKo2ArHxGhYdWwcUhK4G9b5ZStslpRShTnDbVF%2B40mkX0hcGekWgaLfl%2Ber2lu5ZHoYHnfdjd4QBp7vLVR25du7MW5N7gAKo9J8lLXtpJdJwTaQI4dsnZWIQbge%2BGvevDkJXAIB2RbqSNjyTsnXcQW2MLT0%2FRSW4SnkbPtJhL%2FUOVKAwyBnVdmoc%2BqnzRD0%2B9aa4oQed13ReWaB5v62HF88yeY9auS9EnpIL1jfZl%2BiIlKH3DeOxpULG5m2yiG%2BTR%2B8Ic3%2BB8SbNJP%2FiNdtvUQ%2Bk9FXqcNaMT3K88%2FqEFFt9DQs6VlhnRiTuxjscp7sT0GZGZLjCF1Ezq62vbu1ug2hA4lnKNm%2BCQEWQz%2BjtWyKVD5hlJ%2BgPzY2Mw40Nzy1d2YkZKNavcmSnoPzjX8TQ3eZ4S3z7vhNd1cANwo3HqMIqB3YsGOqYBvXYjH6KpzZ%2FIIBBQJ0TEpZ3q022WsSqfC47sl%2Fw8MNZJD1tqD%2BoLeUP4MC1G7Wi0bBbgMXap2zXFC2asClLdRCdupL6sTy6W%2Bd4%2FEisxSJ0H%2FFwX2GEQtsbwjPJAE1X3e%2BmXAm0YIMt6i%2Bk1N%2FkyELsgHeiOHduaR%2BKaJsBSoRgWxcg5I2Eqg1i10U47bN0FGVGIySVUPjSdPOPTMnz%2FvGQw%2Fdyu1g%3D%3D&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20211026T003417Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAYZTTEKKEX4UCQNHK%2F20211026%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=5fa720fa13896d7b90931e39fdca3d32453295f881f0ca2ba2e5d3530ef1b82f)
Map 2 (https://ago-item-storage.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/04ee787fc7a24fb7934790354337c996/02_HighwayRecommendations_GUAMPO_Map_Revised.pdf?X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEND%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCXVzLWVhc3QtMSJGMEQCIFtWiYsPD%2B7vn4NWGnZHfUviaoSmIqC43%2BcaQaVlBS3%2FAiBQ6Ou%2FEJ6hEmwDrGOKfnCzHC%2Bp9y0VdmthDDeUkvtBCyr6AwhpEAAaDDYwNDc1ODEwMjY2NSIMCMhZEfK4nq9vsQ%2BfKtcD9qJlOh0aEpm3mE9NLkivUS%2F5helM8Y74a%2BxPcc8FRMaLXjHGrPGbUf4CzI3%2FvdNtZat0JuRAIfP4tpLyZgka1iAZ%2BbTWvnNGvDXAhrChKTED2KPvVPpx%2FzWpRF4ShEFJ%2BNs23b4ZG3jMzizjMmibOK7EICruHgfTROO3PlhFlppJkld2m04q2Ul8FF5u69J4h8%2BHwZ%2FUqgHTbshFkfVABDLd6IQ5pdmBHbHUFkhoTt70vHjOe9xcPl%2BziHeulnE4rPi5XI5r4X3Phg7igpovuqzXttZZxjNQvzOINKqn2J7bnXBz%2BcSzoJOqJoARZNfwwgAowY%2BlxmlhWh52EtF29VYbhrxm9pxZcvfO2jfmAgXqoFTvSXZdJ7jJNkVbDisPk0wWtEf4TFiUZqTBhxwSLSMPcgAuU3E2P417EwezIaS3T1PFCw2ic5oELARRwvRs6UNwn5mXSRTTC28XsTB%2Bl3YwgQ1y%2BPzo%2FbslrDH1nCZojrbOidufcI1MbUYAQbWfu8RjBbM7WhpYqhuVoGlPHvbCyU85WlVEDrzvXv1jnIDrZ5En%2BWedwkJJa%2BbU6RpOTg0SeLwVlO2ihXNPsao7aeTCzFHdlsVqysGdF9TMVNFoFX3A9m5lMNaA3YsGOqYBz0PjFJ8blfcUNnGh2snp39A2VPgbz%2FMKyiQmyya%2FQkqA7h5KQFFAPs%2FbBYKzUcntJxhBBcuAFrvmQfA5zvZYKRoWIuDUK4sRzqSxvQ9TKTZyHB95uOToYaB%2FBIfEOmicN3d77JO9BcCDu6MWpA7SnsTpPbn8c7vTEcXNhTUQZBhgmel%2BkO6IFBOxvoO24%2BaneSk5uSaFWpOKvhPr8odghY4jdg9T5w%3D%3D&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20211026T003437Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAYZTTEKKEX6CYZBQX%2F20211026%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=8cb49c6340718a14afcfaebfe40803e3356ee6471406f7ae802b1ecaa45dbadf)
Source = https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/56c3aabd2bec4d5783b6483b06493d8e
No tolls and there's no way they can upgrade NC 43 to a freeway on the existing alignment due to some development unless you want to displace all those businesses. And I don't see a toll highway going there, that's literally in the middle of nowhere and probably won't generate that much traffic, really.
Same for the Carolina bays parkway. Tolling it would be pointless as the bypass is the main reason of upgrading the existing highway.
If a project has a higher score does that mean it will come to the next STIP (one was skipped due to Covid)? I-95 widening in Johnston County is the most needed one and the part form I-74 to the SC state line is almost $400 million to add a third lane. DAMN that's a lot! If it's going to cost that much it's most likely a complete rebuild as opposed to widening existing bridges which will definitely drive down the cost.
https://ncdot.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?layers=8623ff32a0a249c79a106dfb12dc83b2
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 16, 2022, 09:47:08 AM
No tolls and there's no way they can upgrade NC 43 to a freeway on the existing alignment due to some development unless you want to displace all those businesses. And I don't see a toll highway going there, that's literally in the middle of nowhere and probably won't generate that much traffic, really.
Same for the Carolina bays parkway. Tolling it would be pointless as the bypass is the main reason of upgrading the existing highway.
If a project has a higher score does that mean it will come to the next STIP (one was skipped due to Covid)? I-95 widening in Johnston County is the most needed one and the part form I-74 to the SC state line is almost $400 million to add a third lane. DAMN that's a lot! If it's going to cost that much it's most likely a complete rebuild as opposed to widening existing bridges which will definitely drive down the cost.
https://ncdot.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?layers=8623ff32a0a249c79a106dfb12dc83b2
Some links are needed here. Who thinks NC 43 should be a freeway? Or that the CBP should be a toll road?
Why does this angry rant not include a soap box?
(https://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/clar/56/559156/H0054-L68127940.jpg)
^^^
I feel like the above would heavily accentuate any angry rant.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 16, 2022, 06:19:15 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 16, 2022, 09:47:08 AM
No tolls and there's no way they can upgrade NC 43 to a freeway on the existing alignment due to some development unless you want to displace all those businesses. And I don't see a toll highway going there, that's literally in the middle of nowhere and probably won't generate that much traffic, really.
Same for the Carolina bays parkway. Tolling it would be pointless as the bypass is the main reason of upgrading the existing highway.
If a project has a higher score does that mean it will come to the next STIP (one was skipped due to Covid)? I-95 widening in Johnston County is the most needed one and the part form I-74 to the SC state line is almost $400 million to add a third lane. DAMN that's a lot! If it's going to cost that much it's most likely a complete rebuild as opposed to widening existing bridges which will definitely drive down the cost.
https://ncdot.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?layers=8623ff32a0a249c79a106dfb12dc83b2
Some links are needed here. Who thinks NC 43 should be a freeway? Or that the CBP should be a toll road?
Included in that map I sent. Click on a purple like and it will tell you
Only the southern half of NC 43 project is being considered for tolls.
The CBP has 2 lines, one toll and one not. Their scores are slightly different. The new Cape Fear Crossing below Wilmington also has two entries like this.
upgrading US 74 between I-26 and Shelby Bypass to interstate standard is a submittal on here as are most of the usual suspects for interstate upgrade in NC.
You would have to delve deeper into how NCDOT uses these scoring values to develop their STIP list. Each state does it differently. There could be weighting factors applied and it's a strict mathematical exercise. Or they could be using the scores to develop a shorter list from which to choose.
The bad news is that per their page on the 2024-33 STIP, there is almost no money available for projects not already on the current STIP.
https://www.ncdot.gov/initiatives-policies/Transportation/stip/development/Pages/default.aspx
Maybe that changes with the Omnibus bill signed into law this week which enables the big transportation package to actually spend its money.
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 16, 2022, 07:29:08 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 16, 2022, 06:19:15 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 16, 2022, 09:47:08 AM
No tolls and there's no way they can upgrade NC 43 to a freeway on the existing alignment due to some development unless you want to displace all those businesses. And I don't see a toll highway going there, that's literally in the middle of nowhere and probably won't generate that much traffic, really.
Same for the Carolina bays parkway. Tolling it would be pointless as the bypass is the main reason of upgrading the existing highway.
If a project has a higher score does that mean it will come to the next STIP (one was skipped due to Covid)? I-95 widening in Johnston County is the most needed one and the part form I-74 to the SC state line is almost $400 million to add a third lane. DAMN that's a lot! If it's going to cost that much it's most likely a complete rebuild as opposed to widening existing bridges which will definitely drive down the cost.
https://ncdot.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?layers=8623ff32a0a249c79a106dfb12dc83b2
Some links are needed here. Who thinks NC 43 should be a freeway? Or that the CBP should be a toll road?
Included in that map I sent. Click on a purple like and it will tell you
There are literally
dozens if not
hundreds of purple links on that map. Are we supposed to click them all until we find the relevant one?
Quote from: Mapmikey on March 16, 2022, 08:23:17 PM
Maybe that changes with the Omnibus bill signed into law this week which enables the big transportation package to actually spend its money.
I didn't actually know its being signed this week? This is exciting!
Quote from: dlsterner on March 16, 2022, 08:28:44 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 16, 2022, 07:29:08 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 16, 2022, 06:19:15 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 16, 2022, 09:47:08 AM
No tolls and there's no way they can upgrade NC 43 to a freeway on the existing alignment due to some development unless you want to displace all those businesses. And I don't see a toll highway going there, that's literally in the middle of nowhere and probably won't generate that much traffic, really.
Same for the Carolina bays parkway. Tolling it would be pointless as the bypass is the main reason of upgrading the existing highway.
If a project has a higher score does that mean it will come to the next STIP (one was skipped due to Covid)? I-95 widening in Johnston County is the most needed one and the part form I-74 to the SC state line is almost $400 million to add a third lane. DAMN that's a lot! If it's going to cost that much it's most likely a complete rebuild as opposed to widening existing bridges which will definitely drive down the cost.
https://ncdot.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?layers=8623ff32a0a249c79a106dfb12dc83b2
Some links are needed here. Who thinks NC 43 should be a freeway? Or that the CBP should be a toll road?
Included in that map I sent. Click on a purple like and it will tell you
There are literally dozens if not hundreds of purple links on that map. Are we supposed to click them all until we find the relevant one?
Purple line. The CTP is just northwest of US-17 and the northern end of the US-17 bypass is just north of US-70.
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 16, 2022, 08:34:11 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on March 16, 2022, 08:28:44 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 16, 2022, 07:29:08 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 16, 2022, 06:19:15 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 16, 2022, 09:47:08 AM
No tolls and there's no way they can upgrade NC 43 to a freeway on the existing alignment due to some development unless you want to displace all those businesses. And I don't see a toll highway going there, that's literally in the middle of nowhere and probably won't generate that much traffic, really.
Same for the Carolina bays parkway. Tolling it would be pointless as the bypass is the main reason of upgrading the existing highway.
If a project has a higher score does that mean it will come to the next STIP (one was skipped due to Covid)? I-95 widening in Johnston County is the most needed one and the part form I-74 to the SC state line is almost $400 million to add a third lane. DAMN that's a lot! If it's going to cost that much it's most likely a complete rebuild as opposed to widening existing bridges which will definitely drive down the cost.
https://ncdot.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?layers=8623ff32a0a249c79a106dfb12dc83b2
Some links are needed here. Who thinks NC 43 should be a freeway? Or that the CBP should be a toll road?
Included in that map I sent. Click on a purple like and it will tell you
There are literally dozens if not hundreds of purple links on that map. Are we supposed to click them all until we find the relevant one?
Purple line. The CTP is just northwest of US-17 and the northern end of the US-17 bypass is just north of US-70.
Neither project is suitable for tolls and the turnpike authority is not considering either of them. No need for a rant, it's not going to happen.
The US 17 bypass would cross the Neuse at the location of the existing NC 43 bridge because any other crossing of the wetlands would generate lots of opposition (as it should, I think). This document is far from the last word on whether the freeway would upgrade all of the current NC 43 route thereafter or deviate from it; I don't think that's decided.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 16, 2022, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 16, 2022, 08:34:11 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on March 16, 2022, 08:28:44 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 16, 2022, 07:29:08 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 16, 2022, 06:19:15 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 16, 2022, 09:47:08 AM
No tolls and there's no way they can upgrade NC 43 to a freeway on the existing alignment due to some development unless you want to displace all those businesses. And I don't see a toll highway going there, that's literally in the middle of nowhere and probably won't generate that much traffic, really.
Same for the Carolina bays parkway. Tolling it would be pointless as the bypass is the main reason of upgrading the existing highway.
If a project has a higher score does that mean it will come to the next STIP (one was skipped due to Covid)? I-95 widening in Johnston County is the most needed one and the part form I-74 to the SC state line is almost $400 million to add a third lane. DAMN that's a lot! If it's going to cost that much it's most likely a complete rebuild as opposed to widening existing bridges which will definitely drive down the cost.
https://ncdot.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?layers=8623ff32a0a249c79a106dfb12dc83b2
Some links are needed here. Who thinks NC 43 should be a freeway? Or that the CBP should be a toll road?
Included in that map I sent. Click on a purple like and it will tell you
There are literally dozens if not hundreds of purple links on that map. Are we supposed to click them all until we find the relevant one?
Purple line. The CTP is just northwest of US-17 and the northern end of the US-17 bypass is just north of US-70.
Neither project is suitable for tolls and the turnpike authority is not considering either of them. No need for a rant, it's not going to happen.
The US 17 bypass would cross the Neuse at the location of the existing NC 43 bridge because any other crossing of the wetlands would generate lots of opposition (as it should, I think). This document is far from the last word on whether the freeway would upgrade all of the current NC 43 route thereafter or deviate from it; I don't think that's decided.
Hope it doesn't fall like the Ahoskie bypass did. Yes, it does impact wetlands but look at the MLK parkway in Wilmington
Quote from: Finrod on December 27, 2019, 09:37:19 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 07:07:23 PM
I-40 still goes through Greensboro.
Well I mean it's not like too close to what Winston-Salem is, but it goes close to the downtown area.
They tried moving I-40 onto the loop in 2008, but there was so much bad noise made about it that they moved it back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_Urban_Loop#Interstate_40_relocation
Vague. There's plenty of areas of where there's high volumes of traffic with a lot of noise. Confusion was the main reason why they did it too.
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 17, 2022, 05:10:39 PM
Quote from: Finrod on December 27, 2019, 09:37:19 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 07:07:23 PM
I-40 still goes through Greensboro.
Well I mean it's not like too close to what Winston-Salem is, but it goes close to the downtown area.
They tried moving I-40 onto the loop in 2008, but there was so much bad noise made about it that they moved it back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_Urban_Loop#Interstate_40_relocation
Vague. There's plenty of areas of where there's high volumes of traffic with a lot of noise. Confusion was the main reason why they did it too.
It was my understanding that the old road was no longer eligible for interstate maintenance or improvement funding, so an interstate number had to be put back, Business routes are not "official" interstates.
However, I do remember complaints about 40 no longer running through town. Never heard anything about noise. I saw that the wiki article had no citations. Ironically, I think 40 was routed on the bypass partially to get traffic off of the old route.
(That's when we had interstate, urban, rural funding categories. I've never directly dealt with funding, so I may have the categories mislabeled, but that's why we had I, R, U, B projects. Now that funding is not as specific, projects will be labeled by their initial prioritization number, with some exceptions.)
noise in the posts above was in the context of "complaints" not actual noise from the roadway.
Quote from: jdunlop on March 18, 2022, 08:43:10 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 17, 2022, 05:10:39 PM
Quote from: Finrod on December 27, 2019, 09:37:19 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 07:07:23 PM
I-40 still goes through Greensboro.
Well I mean it's not like too close to what Winston-Salem is, but it goes close to the downtown area.
They tried moving I-40 onto the loop in 2008, but there was so much bad noise made about it that they moved it back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_Urban_Loop#Interstate_40_relocation
Vague. There's plenty of areas of where there's high volumes of traffic with a lot of noise. Confusion was the main reason why they did it too.
It was my understanding that the old road was no longer eligible for interstate maintenance or improvement funding, so an interstate number had to be put back, Business routes are not "official" interstates.
However, I do remember complaints about 40 no longer running through town. Never heard anything about noise. I saw that the wiki article had no citations. Ironically, I think 40 was routed on the bypass partially to get traffic off of the old route.
(That's when we had interstate, urban, rural funding categories. I've never directly dealt with funding, so I may have the categories mislabeled, but that's why we had I, R, U, B projects. Now that funding is not as specific, projects will be labeled by their initial prioritization number, with some exceptions.)
According to prss accounts at the time, NCDOT cited two reasons for moving I-40 back to Death Valley:
(1) Travelers were "confused" by the distinction between I-40 and Business 40, and
(2) People close to the bypass were complaining about excessive truck noise. (Some of these critics said they didn't know the bypass was going to be an interstate freeway; they thought it would be more like Bryan Boulevard. In other worlds, they had ignored years of published plans and public hearings.)
Now NCDOT is perfectly capable of ignoring vague public complaints like (1) and (2) if the engineers conclude their route arrangements are the most efficient available. More likely, the agency decided that moving I-40 to the bypass just wasn't working very well, because the great majority of through traffic was continuing to follow the old (and very familiar) route through town.
If you'd like to catch up on the Greensboro Noise issue (hard to believe it was 14 years Ago!)
https://www.gribblenation.org/search?q=Greensboro+noise&m=1
But there's a HUGE difference when looking at when they rerouted I-40 on the beltway. Compare 2008 and 2009 and the traffic volumes rapidly changed when I-40 was moved onto the beltway and back onto its original route.
https://ncdot.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=964881960f0549de8c3583bf46ef5ed4
I-40 on the original alignment (western side) for AADT
2007: 131000
2008: 89000
2009: 103000
2010: 102000
2019: 124000
2020: 104000
I-40 on the eastern side
2007: 63000
2008: 42000
2009: 60000
2010: 61000
2019: 78000
2020: 68500
I-73 (former I-40 on the beltway) Southwestern section
2008: 41000
2009: 33000
2010: 36000
2019: 58500
2020: 51500
I-85 on the southern alignment:
2007: 50000
2008: 66000
2009: 57000
2010: 57000
2019: 73500
2020: 60000
Southeastern alignment
2007: 35000
2008: 50000
2009: 40000
2010: 39000
2019: 50000
2020: 41500
There is no earthly reason this thread should be 8 pages long (especially considering how it originated).
Quote from: STLmapboy on March 24, 2022, 12:36:28 AM
There is no earthly reason this thread should be 8 pages long (especially considering how it originated).
People do illogical things when they are angry. I still think this thread needs a soap box to make the angry rant more olde tyme authentic.