What is/was the purpose of these (abandoned?) highway/ramp stubs at the western end of I-840 at I-40, southwest of Nashville? Are there long-term plans (either proposed or cancelled) to extend I-840 even further northwest? Not like it needs an extension - the route is already so long that it isn't really an efficient bypass (think I-275 in Cincinnati). I also noted that the eastern terminus doesn't have any stubs - it's a regular trumpet interchange.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210214/41cfaa36ee54febf0e914b0c3b49acf9.jpg)
It was supposed to be a full beltway, then they realized it was a dumb idea and stopped when they had half of it finished
Pixel 5
They may still extend it to TN 96
Definitely an old proposal that has been scrapped a long time ago. But it can still be useful if they make it a full beltway.
I would surely love to know who was thinking what when this interchange was designed. On the one hand, the stubs indicate the thought of a possible extension of the highway (whether as I-840 or some other designation). On the other hand, the bridge over the stubs on the ramp from wbd I-840 to wbd I-40 indicates that ramp was intended to be permanent, not temporary, but seems it's in the way of any future ramp from wbd I-40 to wbd I-840. (Aerial Google Maps view seems to show enough room under that bridge for a future ramp from ebd I-840 to wbd I-40; Streetview of course has a semi-trailer blocking that view from the bridge.) What did they think a full interchange would ultimately look like?
Getting deep into Fictional territory...
But a northern extension to tie into the southern end of the Pennyrile Pkwy, west of Fort Campbell and Clarksville, would be kinda neat...especially if taken as an element of a larger I-41 extension plan
Quote from: wanderer2575 on February 14, 2021, 07:09:32 PM
I would surely love to know who was thinking what when this interchange was designed. On the one hand, the stubs indicate the thought of a possible extension of the highway (whether as I-840 or some other designation). On the other hand, the bridge over the stubs on the ramp from wbd I-840 to wbd I-40 indicates that ramp was intended to be permanent, not temporary, but seems it's in the way of any future ramp from wbd I-40 to wbd I-840. (Aerial Google Maps view seems to show enough room under that bridge for a future ramp from ebd I-840 to wbd I-40; Streetview of course has a semi-trailer blocking that view from the bridge.) What did they think a full interchange would ultimately look like?
It looks like there's grading for a ramp from WB I40 to EB I840 running along to the east of the WB I840-to-WB I40 ramp. There also looks like there's a stub for an EB I840-to-WB I40 ramp joining into the WB I840-to-WB I40 ramp that wouldn't go under the bridge.
The east end of I-840 has mainline stubs prior to its interchange with I-40; the ramps within that interchange itself do not have any stubs. There was a northern half of the I-840 planned but it has been placed on indefinite hold (but not scrapped/cancelled) due to there not being a need transportation-wise.
Quote from: ilpt4u on February 14, 2021, 08:25:10 PM
Getting deep into Fictional territory...
But a northern extension to tie into the southern end of the Pennyrile Pkwy, west of Fort Campbell and Clarksville, would be kinda neat...especially if taken as an element of a larger I-41 extension plan
Just wait until a mod or admin moves this thread into Fictional Highways...
It was suppose to be an extension of the full beltway around Nashville, but there really isn't a need for the northern portion, with the possible exception of the Clarksville-Dickson section (I-24 to I-40). Even that is questionable.
what's up with SR 155? it looks like they tried to build a beltway and just didn't feel like finishing it.
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 15, 2021, 12:13:37 PM
what's up with SR 155? it looks like they tried to build a beltway and just didn't feel like finishing it.
That area of Nashville (SW quadrant of 155) is a rather well-off section of the city, so it's not getting upgraded anytime soon, if ever.
Maybe the western Interstate 40/840 interchange should have been constructed as a Directional T Interchange, without the stubs, since the northern segment of the beltway probably wasn't going to be built anyway. At any rate, I would agree that the stubs should be extended to TN 96 and terminate there at an at-grade intersection (Northbound could be signed as To TN 96, and Southbound could be signed as To Interstate 40/840).
I have spent many hours of my life driving a vehicle around on this stub end of 840. TNDOT (and its contractors) use the fully constructed lanes on the stub to test various equipment without having traffic in the way.
The University of Tennessee does some autonomous vehicle testing on this stub.
One time, I even saw a film crew setting up to shoot what looked like some sort of safe driving PSA.
So while 840 probably isn't going anywhere past here anytime soon, the stub does have some value. I find it amusing that they did build the seeming useless loop ramp onto 40 EB, which effectively creates nothing more than a turnaround for traffic wanting to go back to Nashville. But it does come in handy when you're done with your work on the stub and want to return to your hotel in Nashville. ;)
The vision for 840 may have been a little too ambitious, but it is too bad they never got at least one more 'pie piece' of the highway built. Like say, the section between 40 east and 65 north. As an I-40 alternate, 840 is okay. It may be slightly slower outside of rush hours, but it is a far less stressful drive. Kind of like going via Bloomington/Normal instead of Chicago between Rockford and Indianapolis.
The OP's observation about the simple trumpet on the east end is partially due to the way plans changed to have the northern arc terminate east of Lebanon instead of meet itself before the whole thing was ultimately shelved. But that trumpet is clearly designed so the WB 40 - WB 840 ramp could serve as turbine ramp in a fully built interchange that would likely have had a matching turbine ramp from (let's call it) SB 840 -> EB 40.
In addition to cost, part of the justification for abandoning the northern 840 is the existence of the Briley Parkway (TN 155). It serves some of the same functions 840 north would have. Especially in terms of connecting 65 north to 40 west and 24 west to 40 east without having to go thru downtown.
Over the years, I had seen in several places where 840 would have been extended north to TN 96 at Burns. It would have definitely provided some local relief, as it is 10 miles from the TN 46 exit at Dickson to the TN 96 exit at Fairview on I-40. Each of those interchanges would have been relieved of some of the daily commuter traffic that takes I-40 to Nashville. But at this point, I guess that short little extension was shelved along with the rest of the northern arc.
Anyway, I'm probably a lot more familiar with that area than most, as my father and stepmother have lived there from the mid-90's to this year (they are in the process of moving back to Nashville in order to simplify things as they get older), and I lived for a little while in the late 90's, plus my brother just moved away from that area a couple of years ago. The most direct route from my dad's house to restaurants and shopping in Dickson goes over 840, so we all witnessed the construction of the section of 840 from I-40 to TN 100 from start to finish, as it took place mostly in the early 00's.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 16, 2021, 11:17:41 AM
I have spent many hours of my life driving a vehicle around on this stub end of 840. TNDOT (and its contractors) use the fully constructed lanes on the stub to test various equipment without having traffic in the way.
The University of Tennessee does some autonomous vehicle testing on this stub.
One time, I even saw a film crew setting up to shoot what looked like some sort of safe driving PSA.
Some ad firm had a bunch of ambulance chasing lawyers film commercials on that section a few years ago. It was a cookie cutter format with the lawyer standing on top of a 18 wheeler promising to take care of anyone involved in a accident caused by "those irresponsible big rigs."
I could see somebody driving onto the flyover from WB-840 to WB-40 and looking down at 40-50 guys in suits waiting their time to climb up on top of the truck to stand there all badass with their Superman folded arms pose.
Here's one example. I've seen a dozen differ lawyers with this same exact ad over the years during my travels.
https://youtu.be/FMdsqAwdR5g
Quote from: BridgesToIdealism on February 14, 2021, 04:31:58 PM
What is/was the purpose of these (abandoned?) highway/ramp stubs at the western end of I-840 at I-40, southwest of Nashville? Are there long-term plans (either proposed or cancelled) to extend I-840 even further northwest? Not like it needs an extension - the route is already so long that it isn't really an efficient bypass (think I-275 in Cincinnati). I also noted that the eastern terminus doesn't have any stubs - it's a regular trumpet interchange.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210214/41cfaa36ee54febf0e914b0c3b49acf9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7iAxBeq.png)
Like this interchange without the stubs? This is I-690 that WAS going to be extended eastward but opposition decided not to do it. :banghead: :banghead:
EDIT: Because of a user reporting issues with GPhotos with sharing issues, I changed the link to imgur. :colorful: :colorful: :colorful:
I-690's lack of eastward extension was probably a good thing, but I think it's interesting that the ramps to local streets were removed instead of improved for safety.
That said, at least I-690's former connection to the Thruway was totally redone over the years. You can see the scar of the old ramp from I-90 to I-690 still in map imagery (now leading to a staging lot). I believe the old connection was signalized on I-690's mainline as well -- had to make a left turn to get on the Thruway from I-690 WB.
Quote from: snowc on February 18, 2021, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: BridgesToIdealism on February 14, 2021, 04:31:58 PM
What is/was the purpose of these (abandoned?) highway/ramp stubs at the western end of I-840 at I-40, southwest of Nashville? Are there long-term plans (either proposed or cancelled) to extend I-840 even further northwest? Not like it needs an extension - the route is already so long that it isn't really an efficient bypass (think I-275 in Cincinnati). I also noted that the eastern terminus doesn't have any stubs - it's a regular trumpet interchange.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210214/41cfaa36ee54febf0e914b0c3b49acf9.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/U_iRACbu37Ez9AnqiMwJ45d0XzukX4bGkFrr19mfBXJXhIwYGR8VZ-50LqJz1Scrc6lWch4WqOL_tYLyptz2ygub_z2FMAXE9lWSuG6l1THt8gz2MizZNjY7S9QxLoaJidv8a_EXSbYk5IdekS0TunsHOPNsLrREsa3Zm9Pj9sf4kGgbJFgKTat1ppCeGZ0kOZAOUsBE0jtwBVwRHNGwnEZ16n3L53gc7lZQpWXW0rIuPMxdZBL9M4YVe4jFywZsmfgZFSTyR9sLJTmkiNWxdgArHo_yd5jJ2jSlqWw0Ac4Y41bBiNmiAN3la4eTtMLXotIX2Yk30lngFUpdPb2lSGb5U0oajS_AQiy_SatX0CKc_QEqMm2CbfXsHvLZiymnGE7Mq3tCLFEqcP2SC05gHlw54LiEGrFyyf_7qB1VweqYvkdnMjEmhPm-hBYER8SyFWlg_nSIgXx5T71X1xGNU7qiviwxdMQvTd9kRXvO5onHyfaq4WqcqqhGBqi-XnJa0FQPXgMkPnFO0Io_bsonMW0UqsB0TbEUuU2nYk7sTcCCjKBzx0ALzv1NOsAzbGPfHgUnWWuWTXr6ZX5AuLMDineFU_sVWJTFsJVQ-Z7candJINZjN18eFdLRaegpkEGmxvaqrlcG0W3IoJRG0B-VhzpY6jG7Hk9ftFjsVIKmpFrzyrzDMSYAUPjLptyavw=w1240-h667-no?authuser=0)
Like this interchange without the stubs? This is I-690 that WAS going to be extended eastward but opposition decided not to do it. :banghead: :banghead:
When the northern portion of I-840 was proposed, it would be a continuation of I-840 past the western interchange with I-40. There are no ramp stubs at the eastern end of I-840 where it ties back into I-40 because the northern leg of I-840 was planned to tie into I-40 several miles to the east of Lebanon, whereas the southern leg ties in a couple of miles west of Lebanon. I would presume if the northern leg of I-840 were ever completed, there would be a roughly 10-mile overlap with I-40 to link the two I-840 legs on the eastern side.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 16, 2021, 11:17:41 AMThe OP's observation about the simple trumpet on the east end is partially due to the way plans changed to have the northern arc terminate east of Lebanon instead of meet itself before the whole thing was ultimately shelved. But that trumpet is clearly designed so the WB 40 - WB 840 ramp could serve as turbine ramp in a fully built interchange that would likely have had a matching turbine ramp from (let's call it) SB 840 -> EB 40.
Also, the roadway serving the loop ramp has concrete paving for a future EB 40-NB 840 loop ramp tapering in as it approaches the bridge (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1825225,-86.3519385,87m/data=!3m1!1e3). That would indicate that the existing ramp was intended for eventual use as a CD, but it appears that it'd need to pass under the existing turbine ramp via an unbuilt underpass (https://goo.gl/maps/LsHwr9CRerWXPSvS8). I guess the future 840 mainline would have to fly over everything.
To be honest I'm glad that the northern arc was never built. The existing southern loop is already Nashville's equivalent of Houston's Grand Parkway. It's simply not an efficient bypass of downtown. Like the Grand Parkway and to a lesser extent I-275 around Cincinnati, bypasses and beltways that go so far out of their way or sweep so far away from the actual downtown core to me are practically useless as a beltway. Sure, they may have other uses, but the specific function of rerouting thru traffic around downtown is kind of lost when it adds so many extra miles.
Quote from: BridgesToIdealism on February 18, 2021, 12:52:02 PM
To be honest I'm glad that the northern arc was never built. The existing southern loop is already Nashville's equivalent of Houston's Grand Parkway. It's simply not an efficient bypass of downtown. Like the Grand Parkway and to a lesser extent I-275 around Cincinnati, bypasses and beltways that go so far out of their way or sweep so far away from the actual downtown core to me are practically useless as a beltway. Sure, they may have other uses, but the specific function of rerouting thru traffic around downtown is kind of lost when it adds so many extra miles.
i never understood why 275 enters indiana at all.
Quote from: snowc on February 18, 2021, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: BridgesToIdealism on February 14, 2021, 04:31:58 PM
What is/was the purpose of these (abandoned?) highway/ramp stubs at the western end of I-840 at I-40, southwest of Nashville? Are there long-term plans (either proposed or cancelled) to extend I-840 even further northwest? Not like it needs an extension - the route is already so long that it isn't really an efficient bypass (think I-275 in Cincinnati). I also noted that the eastern terminus doesn't have any stubs - it's a regular trumpet interchange.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210214/41cfaa36ee54febf0e914b0c3b49acf9.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/U_iRACbu37Ez9AnqiMwJ45d0XzukX4bGkFrr19mfBXJXhIwYGR8VZ-50LqJz1Scrc6lWch4WqOL_tYLyptz2ygub_z2FMAXE9lWSuG6l1THt8gz2MizZNjY7S9QxLoaJidv8a_EXSbYk5IdekS0TunsHOPNsLrREsa3Zm9Pj9sf4kGgbJFgKTat1ppCeGZ0kOZAOUsBE0jtwBVwRHNGwnEZ16n3L53gc7lZQpWXW0rIuPMxdZBL9M4YVe4jFywZsmfgZFSTyR9sLJTmkiNWxdgArHo_yd5jJ2jSlqWw0Ac4Y41bBiNmiAN3la4eTtMLXotIX2Yk30lngFUpdPb2lSGb5U0oajS_AQiy_SatX0CKc_QEqMm2CbfXsHvLZiymnGE7Mq3tCLFEqcP2SC05gHlw54LiEGrFyyf_7qB1VweqYvkdnMjEmhPm-hBYER8SyFWlg_nSIgXx5T71X1xGNU7qiviwxdMQvTd9kRXvO5onHyfaq4WqcqqhGBqi-XnJa0FQPXgMkPnFO0Io_bsonMW0UqsB0TbEUuU2nYk7sTcCCjKBzx0ALzv1NOsAzbGPfHgUnWWuWTXr6ZX5AuLMDineFU_sVWJTFsJVQ-Z7candJINZjN18eFdLRaegpkEGmxvaqrlcG0W3IoJRG0B-VhzpY6jG7Hk9ftFjsVIKmpFrzyrzDMSYAUPjLptyavw=w1240-h667-no?authuser=0)
Like this interchange without the stubs? This is I-690 that WAS going to be extended eastward but opposition decided not to do it. :banghead: :banghead:
Anyone else having issues with snowc's images? Looking at the post, it appears that the URL goes instead to a page on Google Drive, which prompts for an account sign-in.
Indeed westbound on 40 as you approach the gantry with the 1/2 mile sign for 840, there is a taper out into the shoulder of concrete that runs a ways and then tapers back in, just like at other ramps. That must be where the ramp to 840 WB would have been to exit. It is now the shoulder but would have been the exit lane.
Quote from: Tom958 on February 18, 2021, 11:16:34 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 16, 2021, 11:17:41 AMThe OP's observation about the simple trumpet on the east end is partially due to the way plans changed to have the northern arc terminate east of Lebanon instead of meet itself before the whole thing was ultimately shelved. But that trumpet is clearly designed so the WB 40 - WB 840 ramp could serve as turbine ramp in a fully built interchange that would likely have had a matching turbine ramp from (let's call it) SB 840 -> EB 40.
Also, the roadway serving the loop ramp has concrete paving for a future EB 40-NB 840 loop ramp tapering in as it approaches the bridge (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1825225,-86.3519385,87m/data=!3m1!1e3). That would indicate that the existing ramp was intended for eventual use as a CD, but it appears that it'd need to pass under the existing turbine ramp via an unbuilt underpass (https://goo.gl/maps/LsHwr9CRerWXPSvS8). I guess the future 840 mainline would have to fly over everything.
Definitely the mainline would be separate at the eastern interchange; you can see its stub just south of the interchange (https://goo.gl/maps/wfdVZM1LHbhYiaVT6) so "all" they would have to do is fly the NB mainline of 840 over everything else--they left it ready for that.
Quote from: vdeane on February 18, 2021, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: snowc on February 18, 2021, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: BridgesToIdealism on February 14, 2021, 04:31:58 PM
What is/was the purpose of these (abandoned?) highway/ramp stubs at the western end of I-840 at I-40, southwest of Nashville? Are there long-term plans (either proposed or cancelled) to extend I-840 even further northwest? Not like it needs an extension - the route is already so long that it isn't really an efficient bypass (think I-275 in Cincinnati). I also noted that the eastern terminus doesn't have any stubs - it's a regular trumpet interchange.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210214/41cfaa36ee54febf0e914b0c3b49acf9.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/U_iRACbu37Ez9AnqiMwJ45d0XzukX4bGkFrr19mfBXJXhIwYGR8VZ-50LqJz1Scrc6lWch4WqOL_tYLyptz2ygub_z2FMAXE9lWSuG6l1THt8gz2MizZNjY7S9QxLoaJidv8a_EXSbYk5IdekS0TunsHOPNsLrREsa3Zm9Pj9sf4kGgbJFgKTat1ppCeGZ0kOZAOUsBE0jtwBVwRHNGwnEZ16n3L53gc7lZQpWXW0rIuPMxdZBL9M4YVe4jFywZsmfgZFSTyR9sLJTmkiNWxdgArHo_yd5jJ2jSlqWw0Ac4Y41bBiNmiAN3la4eTtMLXotIX2Yk30lngFUpdPb2lSGb5U0oajS_AQiy_SatX0CKc_QEqMm2CbfXsHvLZiymnGE7Mq3tCLFEqcP2SC05gHlw54LiEGrFyyf_7qB1VweqYvkdnMjEmhPm-hBYER8SyFWlg_nSIgXx5T71X1xGNU7qiviwxdMQvTd9kRXvO5onHyfaq4WqcqqhGBqi-XnJa0FQPXgMkPnFO0Io_bsonMW0UqsB0TbEUuU2nYk7sTcCCjKBzx0ALzv1NOsAzbGPfHgUnWWuWTXr6ZX5AuLMDineFU_sVWJTFsJVQ-Z7candJINZjN18eFdLRaegpkEGmxvaqrlcG0W3IoJRG0B-VhzpY6jG7Hk9ftFjsVIKmpFrzyrzDMSYAUPjLptyavw=w1240-h667-no?authuser=0)
Like this interchange without the stubs? This is I-690 that WAS going to be extended eastward but opposition decided not to do it. :banghead: :banghead:
Anyone else having issues with snowc's images? Looking at the post, it appears that the URL goes instead to a page on Google Drive, which prompts for an account sign-in.
OOps forgot to change the link to imgur! :colorful: :colorful: :colorful:
Quote from: vdeane on February 18, 2021, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: snowc on February 18, 2021, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: BridgesToIdealism on February 14, 2021, 04:31:58 PM
What is/was the purpose of these (abandoned?) highway/ramp stubs at the western end of I-840 at I-40, southwest of Nashville? Are there long-term plans (either proposed or cancelled) to extend I-840 even further northwest? Not like it needs an extension - the route is already so long that it isn't really an efficient bypass (think I-275 in Cincinnati). I also noted that the eastern terminus doesn't have any stubs - it's a regular trumpet interchange.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210214/41cfaa36ee54febf0e914b0c3b49acf9.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/U_iRACbu37Ez9AnqiMwJ45d0XzukX4bGkFrr19mfBXJXhIwYGR8VZ-50LqJz1Scrc6lWch4WqOL_tYLyptz2ygub_z2FMAXE9lWSuG6l1THt8gz2MizZNjY7S9QxLoaJidv8a_EXSbYk5IdekS0TunsHOPNsLrREsa3Zm9Pj9sf4kGgbJFgKTat1ppCeGZ0kOZAOUsBE0jtwBVwRHNGwnEZ16n3L53gc7lZQpWXW0rIuPMxdZBL9M4YVe4jFywZsmfgZFSTyR9sLJTmkiNWxdgArHo_yd5jJ2jSlqWw0Ac4Y41bBiNmiAN3la4eTtMLXotIX2Yk30lngFUpdPb2lSGb5U0oajS_AQiy_SatX0CKc_QEqMm2CbfXsHvLZiymnGE7Mq3tCLFEqcP2SC05gHlw54LiEGrFyyf_7qB1VweqYvkdnMjEmhPm-hBYER8SyFWlg_nSIgXx5T71X1xGNU7qiviwxdMQvTd9kRXvO5onHyfaq4WqcqqhGBqi-XnJa0FQPXgMkPnFO0Io_bsonMW0UqsB0TbEUuU2nYk7sTcCCjKBzx0ALzv1NOsAzbGPfHgUnWWuWTXr6ZX5AuLMDineFU_sVWJTFsJVQ-Z7candJINZjN18eFdLRaegpkEGmxvaqrlcG0W3IoJRG0B-VhzpY6jG7Hk9ftFjsVIKmpFrzyrzDMSYAUPjLptyavw=w1240-h667-no?authuser=0)
Like this interchange without the stubs? This is I-690 that WAS going to be extended eastward but opposition decided not to do it. :banghead: :banghead:
Anyone else having issues with snowc's images? Looking at the post, it appears that the URL goes instead to a page on Google Drive, which prompts for an account sign-in.
Fixed. Now you will see the image and it will instead point to Imgur.