US 93 In Arizona Progress

[Bobby5280]

Nothing might be a good site for a rest area. And a Nine Inch Nails memorabilia store (joking). Plenty of rural interstates have exits for rural roads. There is a network of ranch access roads congregating at Nothing. So it might not be out of the question for the site to warrant an exit. Limited access exits will be harder to justify for many other spots along US-93. Some can be handled as RIRO style exits. Others will probably be gated, private gravel driveways entering the freeway main lanes -a less costly solution, but less desirable for a road trying to comply with Interstate standards.

Santa Claus, AZ looks like an easy fix. It looks like there is enough room between the existing main lanes of US-93 to build new freeway main lanes. They can build new main lanes, convert the existing lanes into frontage roads and then build some slip ramps and bridges for crossover access.

[KeithE4Phx]

My speculation with Nothing is that it will just stay as worthless as it presently is.

Nothing is now a T-Mobile site.  The 200-foot (if not higher) tower has been there for almost a decade.  The old restaurant/bar/whatever is long gone.

[vdeane]

Sounds like Nothing lives up to its name.  That said, I can see the reason for an exit, and personally, I think it would be fun to have a sign that said "Nothing - exit XX".

[Max Rockatansky]

My speculation with Nothing is that it will just stay as worthless as it presently is.

Nothing is now a T-Mobile site.  The 200-foot (if not higher) tower has been there for almost a decade.  The old restaurant/bar/whatever is long gone.

All-Mart and a Rock Shop was what was there.  The All-Mart building used to boast a population of 4.  I haven't been there since 2012 so that's news that a cell tower (one that was really needed) is now there. 

[KeithE4Phx]

My speculation with Nothing is that it will just stay as worthless as it presently is.

Nothing is now a T-Mobile site.  The 200-foot (if not higher) tower has been there for almost a decade.  The old restaurant/bar/whatever is long gone.

All-Mart and a Rock Shop was what was there.  The All-Mart building used to boast a population of 4.  I haven't been there since 2012 so that's news that a cell tower (one that was really needed) is now there.

Upon further review, I'll estimate that the cell tower was built around 2014 or '15.  In any case, since it was built, cell service in Wikieup and along 93 has been far better.

[sparker]

My speculation with Nothing is that it will just stay as worthless as it presently is.

Nothing is now a T-Mobile site.  The 200-foot (if not higher) tower has been there for almost a decade.  The old restaurant/bar/whatever is long gone.

All-Mart and a Rock Shop was what was there.  The All-Mart building used to boast a population of 4.  I haven't been there since 2012 so that's news that a cell tower (one that was really needed) is now there.

Upon further review, I'll estimate that the cell tower was built around 2014 or '15.  In any case, since it was built, cell service in Wikieup and along 93 has been far better.

That's reassuring to hear; if the COVID situation improves by either the spring or fall of '21 (not going to the PHX area in summer!), I've got a road trip planned to visit an old buddy who moved to Chandler from SoCal a year or so ago, and plan on a return trip up the projected path of I-11 all the way to I-80.  As long as there's AT&T coverage for most of the way, it's all good.       

[splashflash]

Upgrades for US93 to be four lanes and roundabouts at the Tegner gap near Wickenburg

https://wickenburgsun.com/news/8159/adot-restores-us-93-widening-project/

[Henry]

Upgrades for US93 to be four lanes and roundabouts at the Tegner gap near Wickenburg

https://wickenburgsun.com/news/8159/adot-restores-us-93-widening-project/

This is great news indeed!

[Plutonic Panda]

Upgrades for US93 to be four lanes and roundabouts at the Tegner gap near Wickenburg

https://wickenburgsun.com/news/8159/adot-restores-us-93-widening-project/

This should be interstate quality. Why is AZDOT dropping the ball on this when they know it is already in need of becoming I-11?

[KeithE4Phx]

Upgrades for US93 to be four lanes and roundabouts at the Tegner gap near Wickenburg

https://wickenburgsun.com/news/8159/adot-restores-us-93-widening-project/

This should be interstate quality. Why is AZDOT dropping the ball on this when they know it is already in need of becoming I-11?

IIRC, regardless of its final alignment, I-11 is supposed to connect to the current US 93 north of the 93/89 junction.  The section of 93 in question was never going to be upgraded to an interstate.

[Plutonic Panda]

Upgrades for US93 to be four lanes and roundabouts at the Tegner gap near Wickenburg

https://wickenburgsun.com/news/8159/adot-restores-us-93-widening-project/

This should be interstate quality. Why is AZDOT dropping the ball on this when they know it is already in need of becoming I-11?

IIRC, regardless of its final alignment, I-11 is supposed to connect to the current US 93 north of the 93/89 junction.  The section of 93 in question was never going to be upgraded to an interstate.

Okay for some reason I thought it was going to be a bypass of Wickenburg.

[vdeane]

Upgrades for US93 to be four lanes and roundabouts at the Tegner gap near Wickenburg

https://wickenburgsun.com/news/8159/adot-restores-us-93-widening-project/

This should be interstate quality. Why is AZDOT dropping the ball on this when they know it is already in need of becoming I-11?

IIRC, regardless of its final alignment, I-11 is supposed to connect to the current US 93 north of the 93/89 junction.  The section of 93 in question was never going to be upgraded to an interstate.

Why so far?  The logical place for I-11 to meet I-10 given Arizona's general goals (pork barrel developer giveaway aside) is at AZ 85 and to take that down to I-8 (personally, I'd take it to AZ 303 and then down AZ 303 to I-10; I'd make the remainder a 3di for the purposes of system connectivity to I-17).  That would suggest a divergence point well south of there.  The purpose of I-11 is to connect Phoenix and Las Vegas, no?

[sparker]

Upgrades for US93 to be four lanes and roundabouts at the Tegner gap near Wickenburg

https://wickenburgsun.com/news/8159/adot-restores-us-93-widening-project/

This should be interstate quality. Why is AZDOT dropping the ball on this when they know it is already in need of becoming I-11?

IIRC, regardless of its final alignment, I-11 is supposed to connect to the current US 93 north of the 93/89 junction.  The section of 93 in question was never going to be upgraded to an interstate.

Why so far?  The logical place for I-11 to meet I-10 given Arizona's general goals (pork barrel developer giveaway aside) is at AZ 85 and to take that down to I-8 (personally, I'd take it to AZ 303 and then down AZ 303 to I-10; I'd make the remainder a 3di for the purposes of system connectivity to I-17).  That would suggest a divergence point well south of there.  The purpose of I-11 is to connect Phoenix and Las Vegas, no?

In a perfect world, the Loop 303-to-I-10 option would prevail; a "quasi-perfect" solution would still retain the Hassayampa option but shunt over to AZ 85 for the southernmost segment.  But this is AZ, which is, to the dismay of some, still rapidly growing, so developers capable of churning cash (some of which lines political pockets) are still pushing for something at least as far south as Casa Grande so they can double down on housing and commercial property in the Maricopa area (and a diagonal I-11 through that area would make for an enticing I-10 bypass!).  So despite the cost differences of the options that take advantage of existing alignments, the big southwest I-11 arc remains the locally favored routing. 

[The Ghostbuster]

Maybe Interstate 11 could be shunted south of Wickenburg, to make a direct connection with AZ 85 at Interstate 10. From there, Interstate 11 would follow existing AZ 85 along all the to Gila Bend where it would terminate at a freeway-to-freeway interchange at Interstate 8 between Exits 115 and 119. To me, that would be a much more logical terminus for Interstate 11 then sending it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Maybe Interstate 11 could then be extended to the Mexican border near Lukeville, though the existing traffic counts along AZ 85, and the terrain such a freeway would go through would likely make that proposal impractical.

[KeithE4Phx]

Maybe Interstate 11 could be shunted south of Wickenburg, to make a direct connection with AZ 85 at Interstate 10. From there, Interstate 11 would follow existing AZ 85 along all the to Gila Bend where it would terminate at a freeway-to-freeway interchange at Interstate 8 between Exits 115 and 119. To me, that would be a much more logical terminus for Interstate 11 then sending it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Maybe Interstate 11 could then be extended to the Mexican border near Lukeville, though the existing traffic counts along AZ 85, and the terrain such a freeway would go through would likely make that proposal impractical.

That makes much more sense than anything else I've read.  There is no need whatsoever for I-11 to exist south of I-8.  It also doesn't need to be routed into the Phoenix city limits to be a "Phoenix-to-Las Vegas" route.  Most people are smart enough to take I-10 west out of Phoenix, then hop on I-11 to get to Vegas.

Neither does it need to go to Tucson and Nogales.  We have I-10 and 19 for that.  A 4-lane upgrade to AZ 85 between Gila Bend and Lukeville would suffice to take care of traffic to and from Rocky Point.

[sparker]

Maybe Interstate 11 could be shunted south of Wickenburg, to make a direct connection with AZ 85 at Interstate 10. From there, Interstate 11 would follow existing AZ 85 along all the to Gila Bend where it would terminate at a freeway-to-freeway interchange at Interstate 8 between Exits 115 and 119. To me, that would be a much more logical terminus for Interstate 11 then sending it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Maybe Interstate 11 could then be extended to the Mexican border near Lukeville, though the existing traffic counts along AZ 85, and the terrain such a freeway would go through would likely make that proposal impractical.

That makes much more sense than anything else I've read.  There is no need whatsoever for I-11 to exist south of I-8.  It also doesn't need to be routed into the Phoenix city limits to be a "Phoenix-to-Las Vegas" route.  Most people are smart enough to take I-10 west out of Phoenix, then hop on I-11 to get to Vegas.

Neither does it need to go to Tucson and Nogales.  We have I-10 and 19 for that.  A 4-lane upgrade to AZ 85 between Gila Bend and Lukeville would suffice to take care of traffic to and from Rocky Point.

The Tucson/Nogales extension, which would pass several miles west of the present Tucson developmental area, is more of an attempt by regional developers to circumvent Tucson's relatively (by AZ standards) tight land-use policies by providing an additional freeway/artery around which to place their residential and commercial properties out past Tucson Estates.  There is no massive rush from Mexico's maquiladores to U.S. distributors; China and the rest of Eastern Asia have overwhelmed that concept, so the notion of providing more lanes down to Nogales can be chalked up to speculation.  If the concept of I-11 as a through-traffic alternative to I-10 through greater PHX can be sold in the next 20 years or so, then that's what'll happen down to the vicinity of the I-8/I-10 junction.  Otherwise, saving money by running I-11 down to either Loop 303 out around Surprise or straight down the Hassayampa to I-10 and thence down AZ 85 to Gila Bend/I-8 would be doable options requiring considerably less property acquisition and new-terrain construction.   

[vdeane]

Maybe Interstate 11 could be shunted south of Wickenburg, to make a direct connection with AZ 85 at Interstate 10. From there, Interstate 11 would follow existing AZ 85 along all the to Gila Bend where it would terminate at a freeway-to-freeway interchange at Interstate 8 between Exits 115 and 119. To me, that would be a much more logical terminus for Interstate 11 then sending it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Maybe Interstate 11 could then be extended to the Mexican border near Lukeville, though the existing traffic counts along AZ 85, and the terrain such a freeway would go through would likely make that proposal impractical.

That makes much more sense than anything else I've read.  There is no need whatsoever for I-11 to exist south of I-8.  It also doesn't need to be routed into the Phoenix city limits to be a "Phoenix-to-Las Vegas" route.  Most people are smart enough to take I-10 west out of Phoenix, then hop on I-11 to get to Vegas.

Neither does it need to go to Tucson and Nogales.  We have I-10 and 19 for that.  A 4-lane upgrade to AZ 85 between Gila Bend and Lukeville would suffice to take care of traffic to and from Rocky Point.

I prefer that people not have to go out of their way on I-10 to get to I-11, but at least the AZ 85 option would provide a bypass of Phoenix for through traffic.  Both of those are far better than the actual plan of building a duplicate parallel freeway and then replacing I-19 (especially now that they're able to widen I-10).  I-19 is fine as-is.  If it's going to be replaced with anything, it should be I-17, because at least then I-17's exit numbers would at least have some semblance of sense.

[howlincoyote2k1]

Maybe Interstate 11 could be shunted south of Wickenburg, to make a direct connection with AZ 85 at Interstate 10. From there, Interstate 11 would follow existing AZ 85 along all the to Gila Bend where it would terminate at a freeway-to-freeway interchange at Interstate 8 between Exits 115 and 119. To me, that would be a much more logical terminus for Interstate 11 then sending it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Maybe Interstate 11 could then be extended to the Mexican border near Lukeville, though the existing traffic counts along AZ 85, and the terrain such a freeway would go through would likely make that proposal impractical.

That makes much more sense than anything else I've read.  There is no need whatsoever for I-11 to exist south of I-8.  It also doesn't need to be routed into the Phoenix city limits to be a "Phoenix-to-Las Vegas" route.  Most people are smart enough to take I-10 west out of Phoenix, then hop on I-11 to get to Vegas.

Neither does it need to go to Tucson and Nogales.  We have I-10 and 19 for that.  A 4-lane upgrade to AZ 85 between Gila Bend and Lukeville would suffice to take care of traffic to and from Rocky Point.

I prefer that people not have to go out of their way on I-10 to get to I-11, but at least the AZ 85 option would provide a bypass of Phoenix for through traffic.  Both of those are far better than the actual plan of building a duplicate parallel freeway and then replacing I-19 (especially now that they're able to widen I-10).  I-19 is fine as-is.  If it's going to be replaced with anything, it should be I-17, because at least then I-17's exit numbers would at least have some semblance of sense.

Thing is, you can make that AZ 85 Phoenix bypass without involving I-11. AZ 85 is already there, it's already a four-lane road, all you need is a direct connection to I-8 and remove the stoplights near I-10. As a bonus, you could extend AZ 85 up to Wickenburg by way of Aguila Road and Vulture Mine Road, both of which are already paved roads that wouldn't need much improvement to state route quality.

Connecting I-11 to I-10 out in Tonopah just adds inconvenience and unnecessary miles to the Phoenix-Vegas trip, and for those that live in the northern half of the Valley, at that point it's just better to use existing US-60, and now that stretch of I-11 between Wickenburg and I-10 is completely pointless.

The purpose of Interstate 11 is to connect the cities of Phoenix, Arizona and Las Vegas, Nevada. Period. End of discussion.

I will die on this hill if I have to.

[The Ghostbuster]

While an Interstate 11 from Las Vegas to Phoenix would probably be long enough, others seem to have different ideas for a longer Interstate 11. Whether or not they succeed remains to be seen.

[sparker]

While an Interstate 11 from Las Vegas to Phoenix would probably be long enough, others seem to have different ideas for a longer Interstate 11. Whether or not they succeed remains to be seen.

The legal definition of the I-11 corridor extends north to I-80 in northern NV (in one of the more vague specifications of actual location in corridor authorizing legislation); south is another matter due to the machinations of S. AZ developers, who have somewhat grandiose pretensions.  it remains to be seen how all that shakes out -- and who is willing to bear the cost of duplicative corridors benefiting a few well-heeled and well-placed folks!

[KeithE4Phx]

While an Interstate 11 from Las Vegas to Phoenix would probably be long enough, others seem to have different ideas for a longer Interstate 11. Whether or not they succeed remains to be seen.

None of the proposed alignments bring I-11 into the city of Phoenix.  It's not necessary, and it will not happen.  It won't go any further east than the current Loop 303.  Most of the proposals involve the Hassayampa Freeway.

And I'll be absolutely shocked if it ever is built south of I-8.  Pima County/Tucson is completely anti-freeway.

[splashflash]

https://www.pinalcentral.com/casa_grande_dispatch/area_news/adot-releases-report-on-possible-routes-for-i-11/article_f15f5655-9e25-5224-8b54-ddd1007815dd.html

Here is a link to the map location of a late-2017 alignment selection report.  Alignment W follows US 93 southwest beyond Wickenburg, continues along US60 to Morristown and then heads straight south where it links to the North Sun Valley Parkway.  There was resistance to this alignment because of its going through Wickenburg and proximity to the Hassayampa River which hugs US60.

Wickenburg wanted I-11 quite close, but not without some bypass.

[KeithE4Phx]

https://www.pinalcentral.com/casa_grande_dispatch/area_news/adot-releases-report-on-possible-routes-for-i-11/article_f15f5655-9e25-5224-8b54-ddd1007815dd.html

Here is a link to the map location of a late-2017 alignment selection report.  Alignment W follows US 93 southwest beyond Wickenburg, continues along US60 to Morristown and then heads straight south where it links to the North Sun Valley Parkway.  There was resistance to this alignment because of its going through Wickenburg and proximity to the Hassayampa River which hugs US60.

Wickenburg wanted I-11 quite close, but not without some bypass.

Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall.  Don't subscribe, and you get today's front page.

[Stephane Dumas]

https://www.pinalcentral.com/casa_grande_dispatch/area_news/adot-releases-report-on-possible-routes-for-i-11/article_f15f5655-9e25-5224-8b54-ddd1007815dd.html


Here is a link to the map location of a late-2017 alignment selection report.  Alignment W follows US 93 southwest beyond Wickenburg, continues along US60 to Morristown and then heads straight south where it links to the North Sun Valley Parkway.  There was resistance to this alignment because of its going through Wickenburg and proximity to the Hassayampa River which hugs US60.

Wickenburg wanted I-11 quite close, but not without some bypass.

Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall.  Don't subscribe, and you get today's front page.

We're lucky then the Wayback Machine saved that article. http://web.archive.org/web/20201009162132/https://www.pinalcentral.com/casa_grande_dispatch/area_news/adot-releases-report-on-possible-routes-for-i-11/article_f15f5655-9e25-5224-8b54-ddd1007815dd.html

[KeithE4Phx]

Wikieup is a wide spot in the road with one good souvenir shop/convenience store, two overpriced gas stations across the highway (both of whom charge $1-1.50 per gallon above market price), and a couple of decent restaurants at the north end of town.  Most of whatever else used to exist along US 93 has long been abandoned.

There's no way I can see ADOT not routing I-11 on a bypass around what's left of that town (population about 300).  I stop there on  my way to and from Vegas or Laughlin once or twice a year, and outside of the souvenir shop and a good Chicago-style hot dog stand, the rest is 100% expendable. 

Build the bypass and connect the current 93 to it on both sides of town.  Upgrading the current 93 through town to interstate standards is just not happening.  I'll be shocked if anyone outside of local residents even propose it.

Now there's one less reason to drive through Wikieup, and it is - or now was -- the biggest reason.  The Wikieup Trading Post (the souvenir shop/convenience store mentioned above) burned to the ground early this morning.  A total loss.  At least nobody was hurt.