Interstate 81 in Syracuse

[Rothman]

I don't think there's anything awry here - but it's obviously not good news for anyone that wanted the project to happen, while not generating much positive interest to anyone else. So it makes sense and isn't the least bit surprising that it would be a Friday news dump.

How is it bad news for someone who wanted the project to happen?  The FEIS means the project is moving forward.

What'll hold it up now are the expected lawsuits (e.g., DestinyUSA).

Wow, I goofed badly. I didn't read back far enough and I thought this was the discussion about US 219 from another thread. Scratch my comment, but hopefully it makes more sense in that light!

Heh.  That does make more sense now.

[The Ghostbuster]

Any updates on when Interstate 481 will become the "relocated" Interstate 81? The sooner that happens, the sooner the entire Interstate 81 corridor gets mileage-based exits.

[Rothman]

Any updates on when Interstate 481 will become the "relocated" Interstate 81? The sooner that happens, the sooner the entire Interstate 81 corridor gets mileage-based exits.

You've got a while for that to happen.  Viaduct's not coming down for a few years.

[webny99]

Any updates on when Interstate 481 will become the "relocated" Interstate 81? The sooner that happens, the sooner the entire Interstate 81 corridor gets mileage-based exits.

You've got a while for that to happen.  Viaduct's not coming down for a few years.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think all the I-481 improvements and I-81 interchange(s) will have to be done before the switch happens.

[Rothman]

Any updates on when Interstate 481 will become the "relocated" Interstate 81? The sooner that happens, the sooner the entire Interstate 81 corridor gets mileage-based exits.

You've got a while for that to happen.  Viaduct's not coming down for a few years.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think all the I-481 improvements and I-81 interchange(s) will have to be done before the switch happens.

This is true.  The schedule is optimistic.

SMTC Planning Committee vote to add the I-81 individual projects to the TIP/STIP is tomorrow.

[Rothman]

I-81 Viaduct Project TIP amendments for Phase 1 contracts passed SMTC Planning Committee without any issues today.  Vote was unanimous in favor.

[Rothman]

Vote to add Phase 1 (five contracts totally nearly $1 billion) of the I-81 Viaduct Project to LRTP and TIP was passed in SMTC's Policy Committee today, overcoming one nay vote in either case, both coming from Jim Rowley, an Onondaga County Legislator.

NYSDOT is now free to authorize the funding as federal project development and design requirements are met.

[abqtraveler]

Vote to add Phase 1 (five contracts totally nearly $1 billion) of the I-81 Viaduct Project to LRTP and TIP was passed in SMTC's Policy Committee today, overcoming one nay vote in either case, both coming from Jim Rowley, an Onondaga County Legislator.

NYSDOT is now free to authorize the funding as federal project development and design requirements are met.

When are they planning to break ground on the project?

[davewiecking]

When are they planning to break ground on the project?

After the contracts are awarded. https://www.syracuse.com/state/2022/04/i-81-project-timeline-when-construction-starts-and-ends.html

[Michael]

I was just looking at the NYSDOT Projects page, and I noticed that the I-81 viaduct replacement is now listed.

In case the link ends up dying, here's the text:

I-81 VIADUCT - BL 81, OSWEGO BLVD, PEARL STREET

Project ID No. 350196

Description

Pavement: Reconstruction, Concrete

I-81 VIADUCT - BL 81, OSWEGO BLVD, PEARL STREET: 1 NEW BRIDGE, 2 BRIDGE REPLACEMENTS (BINS 1031570, 1050922), 13 BRIDGES REMOVED (BINS 1050800, 1050010, 1053882, 1053881, 105095A, 105100A, 1053870, 1053860, 1064590, 1051063, 105384A, 1053840, 2208620.

Project Overview

Project Status

• The current status of the project is Future Development.
• The Bid Opening is expected to be in Winter 2024/2025.
• Construction is expected to begin in Spring 2025.
• Construction is expected to be completed in .

Cost of the Project
The project cost is approximately $289,300,000.

This project receives funding from the following sources:
Federal: Yes
State : Yes
Local : No

Note that there isn't a D-number assigned yet.  I find it interesting that the project description mentions "BL 81" and also doesn't have an estimated completion date.  I also looked for listings for the other parts of the project, but I didn't see anything.

[Rothman]

I was just looking at the NYSDOT Projects page, and I noticed that the I-81 viaduct replacement is now listed.

In case the link ends up dying, here's the text:

I-81 VIADUCT - BL 81, OSWEGO BLVD, PEARL STREET

Project ID No. 350196

Description

Pavement: Reconstruction, Concrete

I-81 VIADUCT - BL 81, OSWEGO BLVD, PEARL STREET: 1 NEW BRIDGE, 2 BRIDGE REPLACEMENTS (BINS 1031570, 1050922), 13 BRIDGES REMOVED (BINS 1050800, 1050010, 1053882, 1053881, 105095A, 105100A, 1053870, 1053860, 1064590, 1051063, 105384A, 1053840, 2208620.

Project Overview

Project Status

• The current status of the project is Future Development.
• The Bid Opening is expected to be in Winter 2024/2025.
• Construction is expected to begin in Spring 2025.
• Construction is expected to be completed in .

Cost of the Project
The project cost is approximately $289,300,000.

This project receives funding from the following sources:
Federal: Yes
State : Yes
Local : No

Note that there isn't a D-number assigned yet.  I find it interesting that the project description mentions "BL 81" and also doesn't have an estimated completion date.  I also looked for listings for the other parts of the project, but I didn't see anything.

Only Phase 1 was approved for funding and Record of Decision has not been achieved yet.

350196 is also only one of a group of PINs that make up the project.

[vdeane]

^ That listing doesn't look like what has been previously been reported as phase 1 (I-481/I-81 north interchange, most of the I-481 improvements).  It looks like the viaduct tear-down.

[sprjus4]

Shouldn't all improvements to I-481 including necessary widenings and north / south interchange reconfigurations be fully complete before any construction begins on demolition of the viaduct?

[ARMOURERERIC]

Wonder if the 481 improvements are a rouse.

[Rothman]

Ugh.  You people...

Phase 1 is approved for funding, which is all the I-481 improvements plus a few others here and there.  And, of course they'll be done before the viaduct comes down.

So, of course 350196 doesn't have a D-number yet, since it's part of Phase 2.

When I'm back in the office, I'll post the PINs here.

And the statement that the I-481 is just a ruse has to be one of the silliest comments I have seen on the forum...Alanland aside.

[Alps]

Ugh.  You people...

Phase 1 is approved for funding, which is all the I-481 improvements plus a few others here and there.  And, of course they'll be done before the viaduct comes down.

So, of course 350196 doesn't have a D-number yet, since it's part of Phase 2.

When I'm back in the office, I'll post the PINs here.

And the statement that the I-481 is just a ruse has to be one of the silliest comments I have seen on the forum...Alanland aside.

he said a rouse, not a ruse. some people are turned on by roads

[kalvado]

Ugh.  You people...

Phase 1 is approved for funding, which is all the I-481 improvements plus a few others here and there.  And, of course they'll be done before the viaduct comes down.

So, of course 350196 doesn't have a D-number yet, since it's part of Phase 2.

When I'm back in the office, I'll post the PINs here.

And the statement that the I-481 is just a ruse has to be one of the silliest comments I have seen on the forum...Alanland aside.

Just looked through the posted list of R3 projects.  I don't see anything that would correspond to Phase 1. I could definitely miss them, though, as the search feature works... well, good enough for the government job.  For example "I-81 VIADUCT - BL 81,... " can be found using "viaduct" or "BL 81" keywords, but not using "I-81"
I can imagine officially posting viaduct removal as a political thing; however, I don't see "bait and switch" with I-481 I improvements limited to new shields as something totally impossible. 

[Rothman]

Ugh.  You people...

Phase 1 is approved for funding, which is all the I-481 improvements plus a few others here and there.  And, of course they'll be done before the viaduct comes down.

So, of course 350196 doesn't have a D-number yet, since it's part of Phase 2.

When I'm back in the office, I'll post the PINs here.

And the statement that the I-481 is just a ruse has to be one of the silliest comments I have seen on the forum...Alanland aside.

Just looked through the posted list of R3 projects.  I don't see anything that would correspond to Phase 1. I could definitely miss them, though, as the search feature works... well, good enough for the government job.  For example "I-81 VIADUCT - BL 81,... " can be found using "viaduct" or "BL 81" keywords, but not using "I-81"
I can imagine officially posting viaduct removal as a political thing; however, I don't see "bait and switch" with I-481 I improvements limited to new shields as something totally impossible.

Pfft.  Like I said, I'll post the PINs tomorrow, little impatient one.

[ixnay]

Ugh.  You people...

Phase 1 is approved for funding, which is all the I-481 improvements plus a few others here and there.  And, of course they'll be done before the viaduct comes down.

So, of course 350196 doesn't have a D-number yet, since it's part of Phase 2.

When I'm back in the office, I'll post the PINs here.

And the statement that the I-481 is just a ruse has to be one of the silliest comments I have seen on the forum...Alanland aside.

he said a rouse, not a ruse. some people are turned on by roads

You don't believe Armour did a typo?  You don't believe (s)he meant "ruse"?

[Rothman]

Like I said, only Phase 1 was approved for funding so far.  Phase 1 consists of the following projects, which will be posted to the NYSDOT site after the tedium of the actual programming is worked out now that they've been added to the TIP/STIP.  All these PINs and information were presented to the public through the MPO process and costs are from the approved amended projects, which are found on SMTC's website:

350190: Convert I-481 to I-81, I-81 North Of I-690, $321.35m to have construction authorized this FFY (includes northern I-81/I-481 interchange)
350191: Convert I-481 to I-81, I-81 South of I-690, $243.35m to have construction authorized this FFY (includes southern I-81/I-481 interchange)
350192: BL-81 Northern Section, Phase 1, $78.5m to have construction authorized next FFY.  Essentially bridge work along current I-81.
350193: I-690 over Crouse Ave and Irving Ave, $163m for bridge work along I-690.  Construction to be authorized next FFY.
350194: Business Loop 81 Southern Section, Phase 1, $140m.  Construction to be authorized next FFY.  Bridge/ramp work along current I-81.

Phase 2 will consist of rebuilding the I-690/West St interchange and removing the viaduct and some remaining bridge work (PINs 350195 to 350197).  Looking a couple of years out for construction for that.  We'll see when they will be added to the TIP/STIP.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[kalvado]

Like I said, only Phase 1 was approved for funding so far.  Phase 1 consists of the following projects, which will be posted to the NYSDOT site after the tedium of the actual programming is worked out now that they've been added to the TIP/STIP.  All these PINs and information were presented to the public through the MPO process and costs are from the approved amended projects, which are found on SMTC's website:

350190: Convert I-481 to I-81, I-81 North Of I-690, $321.35m to have construction authorized this FFY (includes northern I-81/I-481 interchange)
350191: Convert I-481 to I-81, I-81 South of I-690, $243.35m to have construction authorized this FFY (includes southern I-81/I-481 interchange)
350192: BL-81 Northern Section, Phase 1, $78.5m to have construction authorized next FFY.  Essentially bridge work along current I-81.
350193: I-690 over Crouse Ave and Irving Ave, $163m for bridge work along I-690.  Construction to be authorized next FFY.
350194: Business Loop 81 Southern Section, Phase 1, $140m.  Construction to be authorized next FFY.  Bridge/ramp work along current I-81.

Phase 2 will consist of rebuilding the I-690/West St interchange and removing the viaduct and some remaining bridge work (PINs 350195 to 350197).  Looking a couple of years out for construction for that.  We'll see when they will be added to the TIP/STIP.

(personal opinion emphasized)

None of these PINs are present on https://www.dot.ny.gov/projects
That is unlike  350196 - just 2 steps further down the numerical list and few years further down the line

So either 350196 is pushed for presentation due to political reasons, or bait-and-switch is actually more plausible than you may think.

[Rothman]

Like I said, only Phase 1 was approved for funding so far.  Phase 1 consists of the following projects, which will be posted to the NYSDOT site after the tedium of the actual programming is worked out now that they've been added to the TIP/STIP.  All these PINs and information were presented to the public through the MPO process and costs are from the approved amended projects, which are found on SMTC's website:

350190: Convert I-481 to I-81, I-81 North Of I-690, $321.35m to have construction authorized this FFY (includes northern I-81/I-481 interchange)
350191: Convert I-481 to I-81, I-81 South of I-690, $243.35m to have construction authorized this FFY (includes southern I-81/I-481 interchange)
350192: BL-81 Northern Section, Phase 1, $78.5m to have construction authorized next FFY.  Essentially bridge work along current I-81.
350193: I-690 over Crouse Ave and Irving Ave, $163m for bridge work along I-690.  Construction to be authorized next FFY.
350194: Business Loop 81 Southern Section, Phase 1, $140m.  Construction to be authorized next FFY.  Bridge/ramp work along current I-81.

Phase 2 will consist of rebuilding the I-690/West St interchange and removing the viaduct and some remaining bridge work (PINs 350195 to 350197).  Looking a couple of years out for construction for that.  We'll see when they will be added to the TIP/STIP.

(personal opinion emphasized)

None of these PINs are present on https://www.dot.ny.gov/projects
That is unlike  350196 - just 2 steps further down the numerical list and few years further down the line

So either 350196 is pushed for presentation due to political reasons, or bait-and-switch is actually more plausible than you may think.

Perhaps you should read my post again.

You conspiracy theorists really do think government is more organized than it is.

My bet is 350196 is up there by mistake.

[cl94]

You conspiracy theorists really do think government is more organized than it is.

Having worked for government both directly and as a contractor, I strongly agree with this.

(Personal opinion emphasized)

[kalvado]

Like I said, only Phase 1 was approved for funding so far.  Phase 1 consists of the following projects, which will be posted to the NYSDOT site after the tedium of the actual programming is worked out now that they've been added to the TIP/STIP.  All these PINs and information were presented to the public through the MPO process and costs are from the approved amended projects, which are found on SMTC's website:

350190: Convert I-481 to I-81, I-81 North Of I-690, $321.35m to have construction authorized this FFY (includes northern I-81/I-481 interchange)
350191: Convert I-481 to I-81, I-81 South of I-690, $243.35m to have construction authorized this FFY (includes southern I-81/I-481 interchange)
350192: BL-81 Northern Section, Phase 1, $78.5m to have construction authorized next FFY.  Essentially bridge work along current I-81.
350193: I-690 over Crouse Ave and Irving Ave, $163m for bridge work along I-690.  Construction to be authorized next FFY.
350194: Business Loop 81 Southern Section, Phase 1, $140m.  Construction to be authorized next FFY.  Bridge/ramp work along current I-81.

Phase 2 will consist of rebuilding the I-690/West St interchange and removing the viaduct and some remaining bridge work (PINs 350195 to 350197).  Looking a couple of years out for construction for that.  We'll see when they will be added to the TIP/STIP.

(personal opinion emphasized)

None of these PINs are present on https://www.dot.ny.gov/projects
That is unlike  350196 - just 2 steps further down the numerical list and few years further down the line

So either 350196 is pushed for presentation due to political reasons, or bait-and-switch is actually more plausible than you may think.

Perhaps you should read my post again.

You conspiracy theorists really do think government is more organized than it is.

My bet is 350196 is up there by mistake.

Actually my expectation is that someone (lets just say she is running for the governor) wants to show something to urbanist crowd. This is more benign than conspiracy, but maybe more likely than posting a random politically sensitive project.

The other issue is... Did someone in DOT asked themselves what is going to happen if project is not fully funded, but viaduct is already past the end of life? With prices doing what they do, this seems plausible... 

[Rothman]

Like I said, only Phase 1 was approved for funding so far.  Phase 1 consists of the following projects, which will be posted to the NYSDOT site after the tedium of the actual programming is worked out now that they've been added to the TIP/STIP.  All these PINs and information were presented to the public through the MPO process and costs are from the approved amended projects, which are found on SMTC's website:

350190: Convert I-481 to I-81, I-81 North Of I-690, $321.35m to have construction authorized this FFY (includes northern I-81/I-481 interchange)
350191: Convert I-481 to I-81, I-81 South of I-690, $243.35m to have construction authorized this FFY (includes southern I-81/I-481 interchange)
350192: BL-81 Northern Section, Phase 1, $78.5m to have construction authorized next FFY.  Essentially bridge work along current I-81.
350193: I-690 over Crouse Ave and Irving Ave, $163m for bridge work along I-690.  Construction to be authorized next FFY.
350194: Business Loop 81 Southern Section, Phase 1, $140m.  Construction to be authorized next FFY.  Bridge/ramp work along current I-81.

Phase 2 will consist of rebuilding the I-690/West St interchange and removing the viaduct and some remaining bridge work (PINs 350195 to 350197).  Looking a couple of years out for construction for that.  We'll see when they will be added to the TIP/STIP.

(personal opinion emphasized)

None of these PINs are present on https://www.dot.ny.gov/projects
That is unlike  350196 - just 2 steps further down the numerical list and few years further down the line

So either 350196 is pushed for presentation due to political reasons, or bait-and-switch is actually more plausible than you may think.

Perhaps you should read my post again.

You conspiracy theorists really do think government is more organized than it is.

My bet is 350196 is up there by mistake.

Actually my expectation is that someone (lets just say she is running for the governor) wants to show something to urbanist crowd. This is more benign than conspiracy, but maybe more likely than posting a random politically sensitive project.

The other issue is... Did someone in DOT asked themselves what is going to happen if project is not fully funded, but viaduct is already past the end of life? With prices doing what they do, this seems plausible...

Pfft.  The urbanist crowd is already satiated.  Although it is intriguing to think that MPO members could kill Phase 2, in my opinion, enough grease has been applied to ensure that it will be funded.

Just like it was presented to the public and MPOs and whoever else cared to pay attention, the community grid is the preferred alternative and we're coming up on ROD in a couple of weeks.

The grid is here; urbanists have been rejoicing...

(personal opinion emphasized)