Interstate 81 in Syracuse

[Rothman]

^ If they're flying a Canadian flag, means they're registered in Canada.

And operating in NY.  Can't even catch the boat in Canada.

[froggie]

In the maritime world, where a boat/ship is flagged from and where it operates are often two very different locations.

[kalvado]

In the maritime world, where a boat/ship is flagged from and where it operates are often two very different locations.

Actually it is even more interesting as US to US port trip is a cabotage, and non-US flagged ships are explicitly banned from that. Ever wonder why a week long Caribbean cruise is cheaper than 3-day Mississippi one?

[Beltway]

Sorry to continue this off-thread-topic diversion, but I have always been amazed that Niagara Falls has managed to be such a failure when it has the giant advantage of being home to a world-class tourist attraction.  I know the better views of the falls are on the other side and that's where the tourists want to be, but there's enough on the NY side worth seeing and doing that the city/region/state should have been able to leverage that into at least making the city a decent place.

True indeed.  For someone like me who does not have a passport and who does not live in a border state, the American Falls is where I would go and only there.  Can't go to Canada without a passport.

[sprjus4]

Sorry to continue this off-thread-topic diversion, but I have always been amazed that Niagara Falls has managed to be such a failure when it has the giant advantage of being home to a world-class tourist attraction.  I know the better views of the falls are on the other side and that's where the tourists want to be, but there's enough on the NY side worth seeing and doing that the city/region/state should have been able to leverage that into at least making the city a decent place.

True indeed.  For someone like me who does not have a passport and who does not live in a border state, the American Falls is where I would go and only there.  Can't go to Canada without a passport.

Agreed. I remember visiting Niagara Falls in the early 2000s before a passport was required to cross the border. Simply proper ID and that was it.

[Beltway]

For someone like me who does not have a passport and who does not live in a border state, the American Falls is where I would go and only there.  Can't go to Canada without a passport.

Agreed. I remember visiting Niagara Falls in the early 2000s before a passport was required to cross the border. Simply proper ID and that was it.

My first trip to the Buffalo area was in 2008.  Needed a passport at that point.

[sprjus4]

For someone like me who does not have a passport and who does not live in a border state, the American Falls is where I would go and only there.  Can't go to Canada without a passport.

Agreed. I remember visiting Niagara Falls in the early 2000s before a passport was required to cross the border. Simply proper ID and that was it.

My first trip to the Buffalo area was in 2008.  Needed a passport at that point.

The requirement for needing a passport came in 2009. In 2008, you needed either a passport or some proof of citizenship.

https://www.foxnews.com/story/passports-mandatory-at-mexico-canada-borders

[Beltway]

For someone like me who does not have a passport and who does not live in a border state, the American Falls is where I would go and only there.  Can't go to Canada without a passport.

Agreed. I remember visiting Niagara Falls in the early 2000s before a passport was required to cross the border. Simply proper ID and that was it.

My first trip to the Buffalo area was in 2008.  Needed a passport at that point.

The requirement for needing a passport came in 2009. In 2008, you needed either a passport or some proof of citizenship.

It was probably 2009 before I made my first trip to the falls.

[amroad17]

First time I went to Niagara Falls was in 1969 (at age 7) and again in 1971.  My family visited both sides then.  The next time was in 2017 along with my wife, who enjoyed her first ever visit to the Falls.  We went to the American side only.

I did notice that both Buffalo and Niagara Falls seem a bit "run down" while driving back to Seneca Falls, where we were staying two years ago.  The area around the Falls wasn't bad as it had that "tourist attraction" feel.  However, the farther east we drove on NY 384, the "run down" was very noticeable.  We took the LaSalle Expy east, driving by Love Canal, then continued on NY 384/NY 265.  The further east/southeast we went, the appearance of the area did get better.

Anyway, let's turn our attention 160 miles east of Niagara Falls and opine as to what is going on with that viaduct. 

[ixnay]

First time I went to Niagara Falls was in 1969 (at age 7) and again in 1971.  My family visited both sides then.  The next time was in 2017 along with my wife, who enjoyed her first ever visit to the Falls.  We went to the American side only.

I did notice that both Buffalo and Niagara Falls seem a bit "run down" while driving back to Seneca Falls, where we were staying two years ago.  The area around the Falls wasn't bad as it had that "tourist attraction" feel.  However, the farther east we drove on NY 384, the "run down" was very noticeable.  We took the LaSalle Expy east, driving by Love Canal, then continued on NY 384/NY 265.  The further east/southeast we went, the appearance of the area did get better.

Anyway, let's turn our attention 160 miles east of Niagara Falls and opine as to what is going on with that viaduct. 

But first let me get in my two cents about the Falls.  My HS class (30 strong including me, plus two teacher-chaperons) went there on our senior trip in the spring of 1979.  Our (private) school was in the Philly area and we went up the PA Tpk. NE Ext. and I-81 to the Thruway, then west.  Which meant we traversed the Syracuse viaduct!

ixnay

[Jim]

Maybe Syracuse should convert part of I-81 into a waterfall to bring in the tourists.

[kalvado]

Maybe Syracuse should convert part of I-81 into a waterfall to bring in the tourists.

There is a Taughannock Falls not far from Syracuse, at 215 feet it is said to be the tallest waterfall east of Rockies.
Maybe they can relocate that to downtown?

[Verlanka]

Maybe Syracuse should convert part of I-81 into a waterfall to bring in the tourists.

There is a Taughannock Falls not far from Syracuse, at 215 feet it is said to be the tallest waterfall east of Rockies.
Maybe they can relocate that to downtown?

Yeah right.

[Alps]

Maybe Syracuse should convert part of I-81 into a waterfall to bring in the tourists.

There is a Taughannock Falls not far from Syracuse, at 215 feet it is said to be the tallest waterfall east of Rockies.
Maybe they can relocate that to downtown?

They would sooner make it an at-grade river.

[kalvado]

Maybe Syracuse should convert part of I-81 into a waterfall to bring in the tourists.

There is a Taughannock Falls not far from Syracuse, at 215 feet it is said to be the tallest waterfall east of Rockies.
Maybe they can relocate that to downtown?

They would sooner make it an at-grade river.

And will split the flow into community creeks. Once construction of Venice is complete, Syracuse will become tourist destination, eclipsing Niagara.
Sounds like a plan! 

[amroad17]

Maybe Syracuse should convert part of I-81 into a waterfall to bring in the tourists.

There is a Taughannock Falls not far from Syracuse, at 215 feet it is said to be the tallest waterfall east of Rockies.
Maybe they can relocate that to downtown?

They would sooner make it an at-grade river.

There could be a river through downtown Syracuse if they dug deep enough.  The water table is not far below the streets there.  Probably one reason the tunnel option wasn't viable.

Speaking of Taughannock Falls, my wife and I visited there on our honeymoon in 1987.  I took one photo of her in which she was sitting, looking back at me with the falls in the background.  We visited again in 2015 and 2017, recreating the photo both times.  Nice little hike (3/4 of a mile each way) to get to the falls and back.  Yes, Taughannock Falls is 33 feet higher than Niagara Falls and is the tallest east of the Rockies.

[Michael]

This past week, The Simpsons' song about Upstate NY was all over the news.  When I watched the video of it, I thought that the railing on the bridge that Homer was driving on looked an awful lot like the railing on the viaduct and other bridges in downtown Syracuse.

Compare this picture to the actual viaduct:

[kalvado]

This past week, The Simpsons' song about Upstate NY was all over the news.  When I watched the video of it, I thought that the railing on the bridge that Homer was driving on looked an awful lot like the railing on the viaduct and other bridges in downtown Syracuse.

Compare this picture to the actual viaduct:

Can be about 787 in Albany as well:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6564639,-73.7431145,3a,75y,288.34h,73.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSWEVvVFSF1Kp5SOQwCovMw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And unlike viaduct, 787 did make an actual somewhat successful attempt to fall apart.

[DJStephens]

This past week, The Simpsons' song about Upstate NY was all over the news.  When I watched the video of it, I thought that the railing on the bridge that Homer was driving on looked an awful lot like the railing on the viaduct and other bridges in downtown Syracuse.

Compare this picture to the actual viaduct:

    Very likely non of the reinforcing steel (rebar) in that original viaduct structure was epoxy coated.  Perhaps in a later redeck, but originally, no.  Seems crazy today, but that was the way it was - late fifties and through sixties, while there was a big push to get the roads built.   
   The original founders of the roads also did not foresee the vast increase in traffic, and heavy trucking, in many areas that would significantly shorten the lives of many bridges. 
   Did see something on the "streetsblog" site recently - dated April 26th - that a decision had been made to dismantle the viaduct and route through traffic around the city on the west bypass or 481. Any confirmation on that, or is it just wishful thinking by those in the streetsblog site?     

[kalvado]

This past week, The Simpsons' song about Upstate NY was all over the news.  When I watched the video of it, I thought that the railing on the bridge that Homer was driving on looked an awful lot like the railing on the viaduct and other bridges in downtown Syracuse.

Compare this picture to the actual viaduct:

    Very likely non of the reinforcing steel (rebar) in that original viaduct structure was epoxy coated.  Perhaps in a later redeck, but originally, no.  Seems crazy today, but that was the way it was - late fifties and through sixties, while there was a big push to get the roads built.   
   The original founders of the roads also did not foresee the vast increase in traffic, and heavy trucking, in many areas that would significantly shorten the lives of many bridges. 
   Did see something on the "streetsblog" site recently - dated April 26th - that a decision had been made to dismantle the viaduct and route through traffic around the city on the west bypass or 481. Any confirmation on that, or is it just wishful thinking by those in the streetsblog site?   

Question is when the work will start. There are many people negatively affected by the change, expect a lot of lawsuits and complains before anything moves. Looks like viaduct has no chance of rebuild, though.

[Beltway]

    Very likely non of the reinforcing steel (rebar) in that original viaduct structure was epoxy coated.  Perhaps in a later redeck, but originally, no.  Seems crazy today, but that was the way it was - late fifties and through sixties, while there was a big push to get the roads built.   
   The original founders of the roads also did not foresee the vast increase in traffic, and heavy trucking, in many areas that would significantly shorten the lives of many bridges. 

Still, the agencies and the highway engineers then were focused on getting the Interstate highway system completed, and didn't really think much beyond a 20-year design life.  The original completion date was 1969, and of course that keep slipping backward.

This bridge has lasted what, over 50 years now?  Pretty good service.  Only 0.9 mile long -- time to replace it.

[2021122]

It appears that the community grid has been selected.

https://www.syracuse.com/news/2019/04/i-81-timeline-community-grid-will-take-5-years-of-construction-ny-says.html

The current I-81 will take the place of I-481, bypassing the city. I-81 BL will go through the city. The only remnant of I-481 remaining will be NY-481, at the future junction of I-81, NY 481, and BL 81. They could upgrade the highway as interstate 481 instead. I-690 appears to cross the area, and other maps show it will have a speed limit of 55 instead of the current 45.

[TonyTrafficLight]

Here's another link to more news about Rt 81 that you dont have to log in to view.

https://www.localsyr.com/news/future-of-81/the-week-that-was-for-the-future-of-81-newschannel-9-s-day-by-day-coverage/1957132924

[Beltway]

NYSDOT must be imbibing on a particular powerful brand of Kool-Aid, that is laced with pot.

"The DEIS, which estimates the grid would cost between $1.9 billion and $2.2 billion"

Spending that much money for ... what? 

What is the cost estimate for simply replacing the 0.9 mile bridge ... maybe $300 million or so?

[kalvado]

NYSDOT must be imbibing on a particular powerful brand of Kool-Aid, that is laced with pot.

"The DEIS, which estimates the grid would cost between $1.9 billion and $2.2 billion"

Spending that much money for ... what? 

What is the cost estimate for simply replacing the 0.9 mile bridge ... maybe $300 million or so?

Is anyone talking about "simply replacing"?