Interstate 81 in Syracuse

[Beltway]

I don't like interstate business routes (or bannered routes in general) and would rather that they just go away.

We'll have to agree to disagree.  What could be so repugnant about bannered routes, vdeane?  And is there a thread on AARoads dedicated to this topic?

I don't like Interstate Business Routes on a freeways. 

They should be a standard Interstate route, either mainline or supplementary. 

At least 2 have been proposed in my state, on I-81 and on I-95.

[sprjus4]

At least 2 have been proposed in my state, on I-81 and on I-95.

Where?

[Alps]

I don't like interstate business routes (or bannered routes in general) and would rather that they just go away.

We'll have to agree to disagree.  What could be so repugnant about bannered routes, vdeane?  And is there a thread on AARoads dedicated to this topic?

I don't like Interstate Business Routes on a freeways. 

They should be a standard Interstate route, either mainline or supplementary. 

At least 2 have been proposed in my state, on I-81 and on I-95.

If it's currently an Interstate and they're bypassing it (like green 40/85 in NC), it should have a 3di number. It was good enough for Interstate in 1957.

[sprjus4]

If it's currently an Interstate and they're bypassing it (like green 40/85 in NC), it should have a 3di number. It was good enough for Interstate in 1957.

The I-40 Business segment thru Winston-Salem is currently being eliminated and becoming solely US-421. This route is a full freeway and was apart of I-40 until it was relocated in 1992.

The I-85 Business segment from Greensboro to Lexington I believe is planned to be phased out and just become US-29 / US-70. This route is a full freeway between I-40 and the I-85 relocation completed in 2004, though is only expressway south of there with a mix of intersections and interchanges.

There was briefly an I-40 Business thru Greensboro when I-40 was relocated along the relocated I-85 and new segment of I-73 south of the city completed in 2008, though I-40 ended up being reverted back to its old route thru the city a few years later.

[Alps]

If it's currently an Interstate and they're bypassing it (like green 40/85 in NC), it should have a 3di number. It was good enough for Interstate in 1957.

The I-40 Business segment thru Winston-Salem is currently being eliminated and becoming solely US-421. This route is a full freeway and was apart of I-40 until it was relocated in 1992.

The I-85 Business segment from Greensboro to Lexington I believe is planned to be phased out and just become US-29 / US-70. This route is a full freeway between I-40 and the I-85 relocation completed in 2004, though is only expressway south of there with a mix of intersections and interchanges.

There was briefly an I-40 Business thru Greensboro when I-40 was relocated along the relocated I-85 and new segment of I-73 south of the city completed in 2008, though I-40 ended up being reverted back to its old route thru the city a few years later.

See, unlike a certain poster, I looked those up myself to verify what you say, so I don't need to pester you endlessly for sources. I think that's a mistake. You wouldn't know US 421 or 29/70 would be a viable alternate route that takes you downtown, but an even 3di would give you that information.

[kalvado]

If it's currently an Interstate and they're bypassing it (like green 40/85 in NC), it should have a 3di number. It was good enough for Interstate in 1957.

The I-40 Business segment thru Winston-Salem is currently being eliminated and becoming solely US-421. This route is a full freeway and was apart of I-40 until it was relocated in 1992.

The I-85 Business segment from Greensboro to Lexington I believe is planned to be phased out and just become US-29 / US-70. This route is a full freeway between I-40 and the I-85 relocation completed in 2004, though is only expressway south of there with a mix of intersections and interchanges.

There was briefly an I-40 Business thru Greensboro when I-40 was relocated along the relocated I-85 and new segment of I-73 south of the city completed in 2008, though I-40 ended up being reverted back to its old route thru the city a few years later.

See, unlike a certain poster, I looked those up myself to verify what you say, so I don't need to pester you endlessly for sources. I think that's a mistake. You wouldn't know US 421 or 29/70 would be a viable alternate route that takes you downtown, but an even 3di would give you that information.

Honestly speaking, who is driving without at least some navigation assistance - GPS, if not some pre-planning? So route numbers in most cases are just that - labels; and prefix isn't very relevant.
What does matter, though, is that I- prefix means certain minimum highway standard, with few exceptions. US- or State route can be literally anything. I wonder if any unpaved roads are designated...
In this sense business loop is deceiving as it pretends to be I-grade.

[sprjus4]

See, unlike a certain poster, I looked those up myself to verify what you say, so I don't need to pester you endlessly for sources. I think that's a mistake. You wouldn't know US 421 or 29/70 would be a viable alternate route that takes you downtown, but an even 3di would give you that information.

I-40 Business could reasonably become an even I-x40, though the I-85 Business route is only expressway grade and has at-grade intersections and private driveway connections, so that couldn't be an interstate regardless.

Kalvado does have a point though, most travelers nowadays rely solely on their navigation apps, and couldn't give any second thought to what designation is what. If Google Maps says take US-421 to avoid a wreck on I-40, they take it without question.

If an alt route to I-40 and I-85 was desired, VMS signage with travel times could be posted on either ends to provide choices. Once the I-840 beltway is completed around Greensboro, signage will be placed on either end of the beltway to provide travel times to the other end via - I-840 (northern beltway), I-73 / I-85 (southern beltway), or I-40 straight thru.

[Beltway]

At least 2 have been proposed in my state, on I-81 and on I-95.

Where?

The I-95 Bypass of Richmond, what to do with existing I-95 between I-85 and I-64, late 1970s.

A relocation on I-81 near Abingdon as part of the Tier 1 EIS about 2005.

[vdeane]

I don't like interstate business routes (or bannered routes in general) and would rather that they just go away.

We'll have to agree to disagree.  What could be so repugnant about bannered routes, vdeane?  And is there a thread on AARoads dedicated to this topic?

ixnay

They strike me as sloppy and over-complicate the highway system.  It's worth noting that I'm not a huge fan of overlaps either (they can be useful in certain circumstances but shouldn't be over-used, which can get frustrated when trying to enter one's travels on Travel Mapping).  States with a ton of bannered routes also tend to have a TON of overlaps (see: PA, North Carolina, etc.).  A good highway system isn't just a way to help people navigate from Point A to Point B - it's a work of art.

It's worth noting that NY doesn't really do bannered routes for the most part.  Sure, you'll see a few, but most of them don't actually exist.  NYSDOT Main Office doesn't acknowledge the truck routes at all.  There is no inventory of them and nobody knows where they all are.  NY 52 Business near Beacon is a reference route for half of it and a city street for the other half.  US 219 Business is part reference route, rest overlapped with NY 417.  US 62 Business, which is the only bannered route in the entire state as far as the Highway Data Services Bureau is concerned, is actually inventoried as US 62B in places because the inventory can't handle banners (the only reason it even exists is because Niagara Falls wouldn't take no for an answer).

If for some reason you really, really need a bannered route somewhere, NY's system of suffixes for child routes gets the job done (although in practice there are a few suffixed routes that are a bit odd and should probably be separate touring routes, like NY 9N).

[ixnay]

I don't like interstate business routes (or bannered routes in general) and would rather that they just go away.

We'll have to agree to disagree.  What could be so repugnant about bannered routes, vdeane?  And is there a thread on AARoads dedicated to this topic?

ixnay

They strike me as sloppy and over-complicate the highway system.  It's worth noting that I'm not a huge fan of overlaps either (they can be useful in certain circumstances but shouldn't be over-used, which can get frustrated when trying to enter one's travels on Travel Mapping).  States with a ton of bannered routes also tend to have a TON of overlaps (see: PA, North Carolina, etc.).  A good highway system isn't just a way to help people navigate from Point A to Point B - it's a work of art.

I agree that overlaps *can* create overloaded signage.

Until a year and change ago, the journey from the BP station in Glasgow, DE to the ghost of the Valero station (replaced by the Strawberry Lane overpass just before the Mason-Dixon Line) required negotiating in order

US 301/DE 896
US 301/DE 71/DE 896
US 301/DE 71
US 301
US 301/DE 15/DE 299
US 301/DE 299
US 301

Your highway taxes at work.

Then when the 301 toll road opened, those 301 signs probably wound up at the recycling plant. 

California probably got it right with minimal multiplexing.

It's worth noting that NY doesn't really do bannered routes for the most part.  Sure, you'll see a few, but most of them don't actually exist.  NYSDOT Main Office doesn't acknowledge the truck routes at all.  There is no inventory of them and nobody knows where they all are.  NY 52 Business near Beacon is a reference route for half of it and a city street for the other half.  US 219 Business is part reference route, rest overlapped with NY 417.  US 62 Business, which is the only bannered route in the entire state as far as the Highway Data Services Bureau is concerned, is actually inventoried as US 62B in places because the inventory can't handle banners (the only reason it even exists is because Niagara Falls wouldn't take no for an answer).

If for some reason you really, really need a bannered route somewhere, NY's system of suffixes for child routes gets the job done (although in practice there are a few suffixed routes that are a bit odd and should probably be separate touring routes, like NY 9N).

Yes, I like NY's suffix system.  Other states should adopt it.  DE 896 Business in the aforementioned Glasgow, DE should become DE 896A.  But can you fit a fourth letter in that oval?

And closer to the topic, the new boulevard in Syracuse and its freeway approaches could become I-81B (as in Business), if you don't want green-signed interstates.  Good thoughts, vdeane.

ixnay

[cl94]

It's worth noting that NY doesn't really do bannered routes for the most part.  Sure, you'll see a few, but most of them don't actually exist.  NYSDOT Main Office doesn't acknowledge the truck routes at all.  There is no inventory of them and nobody knows where they all are.  NY 52 Business near Beacon is a reference route for half of it and a city street for the other half.  US 219 Business is part reference route, rest overlapped with NY 417.  US 62 Business, which is the only bannered route in the entire state as far as the Highway Data Services Bureau is concerned, is actually inventoried as US 62B in places because the inventory can't handle banners (the only reason it even exists is because Niagara Falls wouldn't take no for an answer).

If for some reason you really, really need a bannered route somewhere, NY's system of suffixes for child routes gets the job done (although in practice there are a few suffixed routes that are a bit odd and should probably be separate touring routes, like NY 9N).

It is also worth noting that US 62 Business was NY 62A until 2006. Was a member of the "touring routes with 0% state maintenance" club, of which there aren't many other members. NY 3A, 28A, 55A, 148 and 470 are the only remaining ones I can immediately think of.

[Rothman]

The US 6 truck and alternate routes are interesting to me because I wonder if trucks really did use those long detours.

[cl94]

The US 6 truck and alternate routes are interesting to me because I wonder if trucks really did use those long detours.

I mean, with 6 Truck, they don't have much of a choice. I always figured Alternate 6/202 was for when the approach road is closed, which happens occasionally in the winter.

[Rothman]

The US 6 truck and alternate routes are interesting to me because I wonder if trucks really did use those long detours.

I mean, with 6 Truck, they don't have much of a choice. I always figured Alternate 6/202 was for when the approach road is closed, which happens occasionally in the winter.

Sure, but I still wonder about actual compliance given the length of the detour.

I suppose the bridge at the one interchange is too low for them to sneak on the Palisades Parkway section.

[Hwy 61 Revisited]

And closer to the topic, the new boulevard in Syracuse and its freeway approaches could become I-81B (as in Business), if you don't want green-signed interstates.

Or maybe NY 81A for Almond Street, with the freeway approach to 690 becoming I-181 or something along those lines.

[PHLBOS]

DE 896 Business in the aforementioned Glasgow, DE should become DE 896A.  But can you fit a fourth letter in that oval?

One would have to use Series B for such or reduced height Series C.

[TheDon102]

Whats the likelihood of the community grid option?


99%??

[kalvado]

Whats the likelihood of the community grid option?


99%??

It was 99% around Xmas. By now everything depends on state financial situation probably, so do-nothing is a much more viable option.

[Michael]

I saw this article last night on Syracuse.com: I-81 community grid proposal advances to feds for review

[mrsman]

This is interesting.  They are planning on renaming the corridor Business 81.  I imagine this is somewhat similar to Business 83 around York, PA that is actually a freeway at its ends (where it merges with the new I-83) and then a surface street through the central city.  Not quite like the Business freeways in Sacramento, NC ,and SC.

[seicer]

It would be nice to see the freeway become downgraded by the historic Oakwood Cemetery but I'm not sure if that is in the plan as the bridges in the vicinity were recently rehabilitated. The original entrance would a great restored: https://goo.gl/maps/QdkifHSYMokAojHfA

[cl94]

I maintain that current I-81 will be falling down before anything is done to reroute it. We're in for a long set of court battles here. NY has tried to remove a couple other urban freeways Upstate and quietly tabled the proposals, so...

(Personal opinion emphasized)

[seicer]

Were they just ideas or had they moved into more formal proposals? NY has had success in removing freeways or killing freeways being built elsewhere for decades.

[SectorZ]

I maintain that current I-81 will be falling down before anything is done to reroute it. We're in for a long set of court battles here. NY has tried to remove a couple other urban freeways Upstate and quietly tabled the proposals, so...

(Personal opinion emphasized)

It'll come down to a photo finish with 84 in Hartford in that case.

[cl94]

Were they just ideas or had they moved into more formal proposals? NY has had success in removing freeways or killing freeways being built elsewhere for decades.

NY 198 was pretty formal. That was quietly tabled.