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Highway 40 & the Victory Highway

Started by coatimundi, November 29, 2016, 04:16:10 PM

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coatimundi

Something I never realized until today, but US 40 deviated from its precursor, the Victory Highway, within California. While the Victory Highway approached the East Bay on today's 160, via the Antioch Bridge, US 40 used the route through Davis, Fairfield and Richmond to reach the Berkeley Pier.
Since there seem to be relatively few inconsistencies between US 40 and the Victory Highway in other states, I'm curious if anyone had any thoughts on why this deviation exists. Was it just because of the decision to route it to the ferry at Berkeley instead of at Oakland (and was that lobbying on the part of the ferry company)? Or was there some concern about the levee roads in the Delta?

Also, I wasn't able to get a clear idea on the route US 40 followed pre-Bay Bridge within San Francisco. Columbus to Kearny?


NE2

US 40 probably didn't follow anything in Frisco pre-Bay Bridge. Nothing was state maintained, at least.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Max Rockatansky

USends has US 40 ending in Oakland until the Bay Bridge opened:

http://www.usends.com/40.html

They even got a Bay Area page:

http://www.usends.com/bay-area.html

coatimundi

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 29, 2016, 09:50:20 PM
USends has US 40 ending in Oakland until the Bay Bridge opened:

http://www.usends.com/40.html

They even got a Bay Area page:

http://www.usends.com/bay-area.html

That's very different from the story on the old site, so it makes me realize that I may have to just look into this myself.
Quote
Originally the west end of US 40 was in Berkeley CA. From the Berkeley Pier drivers could board the ferry that went to San Francisco. But that wasn't the terminus for very long: in 1934 the US 40 designation was extended to US 101 in San Francisco; you can view photos from there on this page.

This from the cached version of the old site: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:txbjYFcTHu8J:www.usends.com/40-49/040/040.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

And the San Francisco page referenced there: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4GlVdd8HwRAJ:www.usends.com/Focus/SanFran/index.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

I thought that site had been shut down and was no longer available. Is someone else writing their content now?

Hiroshi66

Very interesting. I'm fascinated with the original routes US highways 40 & 50 took through the Bay Area.

When I visited the Bay and Sacramento during the summer, we took CA 160 back from Sacramento all the way until its terminus at CA 4 in Antioch, which we took back towards the Bay. It was a beautiful road and a wonderful drive that I enjoyed thoroughly, but the highway crisscrosses the Sacramento River at least 3-4 times throughout the delta. It didn't feel much like a direct route, although we did enjoy the drive and stopping in towns along the way, like Pittsburgh.

I wonder if that's why US 40 deviated from Victory Highway - in order to take a more direct route (by some people's perceptions) to Berkeley through Davis, Fairfield, and Richmond - instead of zigzagging across the river through the delta?

By the way, I have another related question.

If US 40 followed Davis, Fairfield, and Richmond to reach Berkeley, what route did US 50 take, and how did it reach the bay? Did it hit the water further south, at Oakland? I've read that US 50 followed the current 580 alignment, but I thought 580 hits the water further north? That has always confused me. I have discovered that present I-80 follows more of what was the old US 40 alignment, but where then, did US 50 hit the water?

TheStranger

Quote from: Hiroshi66 on November 30, 2016, 12:29:40 PM


If US 40 followed Davis, Fairfield, and Richmond to reach Berkeley, what route did US 50 take, and how did it reach the bay? Did it hit the water further south, at Oakland? I've read that US 50 followed the current 580 alignment, but I thought 580 hits the water further north? That has always confused me. I have discovered that present I-80 follows more of what was the old US 40 alignment, but where then, did US 50 hit the water?


http://www.usends.com/50.html

US 50 was not an original route to the Bay Area.  IIRC it originally ended in Sacramento ca. 1930:

http://www.usends.com/uploads/7/5/0/3/75032313/1859061_orig.jpg

According to the USEnds page, it was extended to Hayward in 1932.  This consisted of...

- a concurrency with US 99 to Stockton, which would exist until the very late 1960s
- taking over what had been assigned as US 99W briefly in the early 1930s from Stockton to Tracy (today's I-5 corridor)
- taking over the former US 48 west to Hayward (today's I-205 and I-580 corridors)

US 48 originally went to San Jose according to maps but I am not sure if this was ever signed. 

By the mid-1930s, US 50 continued from Hayward northwest along what would later become MacArthur Boulevard, continuing west to US 40 past Oakland, at which point both routes used a ferry crossing to the San Francisco Ferry Building.  Before the Bay Bridge existed, 40 and 50 used Market Street for about a year or two to continue on to a terminus at US 101 (10th Street at the time).   Once the Bay Bridge was built, 40 and 50 used it until the mid-1960s, with the pre-freeway terminus in SF being at 10th and Harrison.

In the early 1960s, US 50 and I-5W (I-580's predecessor designation) were concurrent along the MacArthur Freeway, and for a time I-580 and US 50 were signed together in Oakland.
Chris Sampang

Hiroshi66

Quote from: TheStranger on November 30, 2016, 12:50:48 PM
Quote from: Hiroshi66 on November 30, 2016, 12:29:40 PM


If US 40 followed Davis, Fairfield, and Richmond to reach Berkeley, what route did US 50 take, and how did it reach the bay? Did it hit the water further south, at Oakland? I've read that US 50 followed the current 580 alignment, but I thought 580 hits the water further north? That has always confused me. I have discovered that present I-80 follows more of what was the old US 40 alignment, but where then, did US 50 hit the water?


http://www.usends.com/50.html

US 50 was not an original route to the Bay Area.  IIRC it originally ended in Sacramento ca. 1930:

http://www.usends.com/uploads/7/5/0/3/75032313/1859061_orig.jpg

According to the USEnds page, it was extended to Hayward in 1932.  This consisted of...

- a concurrency with US 99 to Stockton, which would exist until the very late 1960s
- taking over what had been assigned as US 99W briefly in the early 1930s from Stockton to Tracy (today's I-5 corridor)
- taking over the former US 48 west to Hayward (today's I-205 and I-580 corridors)

US 48 originally went to San Jose according to maps but I am not sure if this was ever signed. 

By the mid-1930s, US 50 continued from Hayward northwest along what would later become MacArthur Boulevard, continuing west to US 40 past Oakland, at which point both routes used a ferry crossing to the San Francisco Ferry Building.  Before the Bay Bridge existed, 40 and 50 used Market Street for about a year or two to continue on to a terminus at US 101 (10th Street at the time).   Once the Bay Bridge was built, 40 and 50 used it until the mid-1960s, with the pre-freeway terminus in SF being at 10th and Harrison.

In the early 1960s, US 50 and I-5W (I-580's predecessor designation) were concurrent along the MacArthur Freeway, and for a time I-580 and US 50 were signed together in Oakland.

Thank you so much for the helpful information. You did answer my question, and I always wondered which of the two US highways used the Bay Bridge in the early 1960s right after it was built. I thought it was US 40, but interesting that US 50 also used it - with the two routes being cosigned on the Bay Bridge until 1964 (I presume).

I am under the impression that I-80 is the "heir" of US 40 and so it seems fitting that I-80 now uses the Bay Bridge. My presumption that US 50 (like I-580 now does) ended in San Rafael was wrong. Thanks for clearing it up!

coatimundi

A pic of the Hyde Street Pier:


The post-40 but pre-Bay Bridge Caltrans maps show the Berkeley to Hyde Street ferry as well.

I was just asking because those same maps show it jumping over to Van Ness, but other stuff online (mainly the old 40 page on usends.com) make it sound like it didn't join 101 there but, instead, got to Market Street some other way.

TheStranger

Quote from: coatimundi on November 30, 2016, 01:55:53 PM
A pic of the Hyde Street Pier:


The post-40 but pre-Bay Bridge Caltrans maps show the Berkeley to Hyde Street ferry as well.

I was just asking because those same maps show it jumping over to Van Ness, but other stuff online (mainly the old 40 page on usends.com) make it sound like it didn't join 101 there but, instead, got to Market Street some other way.

So does this mean 40 ended at US 101 in the Fisherman's Wharf area?  IIRC, the Macarthur Boulevard corridor in Oakland that became US 50 was originally US 101E (which I had recalled crossed over from the East Bay to SF via Hyde Street Pier)

I still need to find the one map I saw which had 40 and 50 on Market Street from the Ferry Building southwest (which I had referenced earlier in the thread)

Quote from: Hiroshi66You did answer my question, and I always wondered which of the two US highways used the Bay Bridge in the early 1960s right after it was built. I thought it was US 40, but interesting that US 50 also used it - with the two routes being cosigned on the Bay Bridge until 1964 (I presume).

I am under the impression that I-80 is the "heir" of US 40 and so it seems fitting that I-80 now uses the Bay Bridge. My presumption that US 50 (like I-580 now does) ended in San Rafael was wrong.

The route going to San Rafael is former Route 17 (which also encompasses post-1984 I-880 in its entirety), of which only the segment from I-280 to Santa Cruz remains with that number.

I HAVE seen one photo of the San Francisco Skyway ca. 1962 somewhere where the back of a I-80/US 40/US 50 trailblazer assembly is pretty apparent.  Been a while since I came across that
Chris Sampang

coatimundi

Quote from: TheStranger on November 30, 2016, 03:21:01 PM
So does this mean 40 ended at US 101 in the Fisherman's Wharf area?  IIRC, the Macarthur Boulevard corridor in Oakland that became US 50 was originally US 101E (which I had recalled crossed over from the East Bay to SF via Hyde Street Pier)

I still need to find the one map I saw which had 40 and 50 on Market Street from the Ferry Building southwest (which I had referenced earlier in the thread)

No, I totally believe that.
From what I'm getting from what I'm finding out there: 40 initially ended in Oakland, but was then extended into SF by a ferry that went into a pier by the Ferry Building. However, just before the Bay Bridge was built, it was moved over to the Berkeley Pier. And that's partially what I was questioning: why do that? I would guess it was just some sort of political move, where the ferry company that operated the Oakland - SF route didn't give enough of a kickback, or the Berkeley - SF gave a better deal. I just don't know enough about the history of the ferries. Were those owned by the same company?

TheStranger

This map from 1933 is interesting in this context:

https://www.lincolnhighwayassoc.org/ca/traveler/2001-03/bay_area.html



US 50 and US 101E concurrent on an alignment a bit west of today's MacArthur route?! The future Bay Bridge and MacArthur Maze are shown as proposed on here, but what is somewhat unclear is 40 crossing the Bay and 101 through SF city limits.
Chris Sampang

myosh_tino

#11
Quote from: TheStranger on December 01, 2016, 01:57:40 AM
This map from 1933 is interesting in this context:

https://www.lincolnhighwayassoc.org/ca/traveler/2001-03/bay_area.html

US 50 and US 101E concurrent on an alignment a bit west of today's MacArthur route?! The future Bay Bridge and MacArthur Maze are shown as proposed on here, but what is somewhat unclear is 40 crossing the Bay and 101 through SF city limits.

If you go by the red lines within the city of San Francisco, I'd say US 101 followed Mission to Market to Van Ness to Bay to Hyde and then a ferry ride across the bay to Sausalito.
Quote from: golden eagle
If I owned a dam and decided to donate it to charity, would I be giving a dam? I'm sure that might be a first because no one really gives a dam.

coatimundi

Quote from: myosh_tino on December 01, 2016, 01:32:15 PM
Quote from: TheStranger on December 01, 2016, 01:57:40 AM
This map from 1933 is interesting in this context:

https://www.lincolnhighwayassoc.org/ca/traveler/2001-03/bay_area.html

US 50 and US 101E concurrent on an alignment a bit west of today's MacArthur route?! The future Bay Bridge and MacArthur Maze are shown as proposed on here, but what is somewhat unclear is 40 crossing the Bay and 101 through SF city limits.

If you go by the red lines within the city of San Francisco, I'd say US 101 followed Mission to Market to Van Ness to Bay to Hyde and then a ferry ride across the bay to Sausalito.

It really bothers me that those Shell maps used red for a general classification of street as opposed to a highway designation. It makes following the highway path really difficult.

I found the metadata for that image I posted from the SFPL collection, and it's dated December 9, 1931.

I mean, I've always assumed that there were instances, especially in the infant days of the US highway system and within urban areas, where the routing was just unclear. This may be a case of that. I don't know why it would switch from Berkeley to Oakland, then back to Oakland for the Bay Bridge. Maybe there was no 40 within SF here, and the sign is just pointing for a way to reach 40.

coatimundi

Oh, and here's other cool stuff about the ferry:

Dated June 25, 1937:


Dated June 2, 1938:


The articles I've seen about the Hyde Street to Berkeley Pier Ferry indicate that it ceased "a couple of years after the Bay Bridge was built," so that gives you a timeframe of about 11 months (although I guess it could have already been shut down in that first one).

Hiroshi66

Quote from: coatimundi on December 01, 2016, 01:48:50 PM

Maybe there was no 40 within SF here, and the sign is just pointing for a way to reach 40.

That's what I think, too. It seems similar to those "TO I-5" or "TO I-80" signs we see nowadays. You're not actually on the routes themselves yet, but if you continue heading in that direction, you will reach it.

usends

Quote from: coatimundi on November 30, 2016, 12:33:44 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 29, 2016, 09:50:20 PM
USends has US 40 ending in Oakland until the Bay Bridge opened:
They even got a Bay Area page:
http://www.usends.com/bay-area.html
That's very different from the story on the old site, so it makes me realize that I may have to just look into this myself.
Yes: in April I found some additional historic maps and new information, so I revised the content at that time.

Quote from: coatimundi on November 30, 2016, 12:33:44 AM
I thought that site had been shut down and was no longer available. Is someone else writing their content now?
No, it's still me.  Out of curiosity, what gave you the impression the site had been shut down?

Quote from: TheStranger on November 30, 2016, 03:21:01 PM
I still need to find the one map I saw which had 40 and 50 on Market Street from the Ferry Building southwest (which I had referenced earlier in the thread)
If you can find that, I would love to see it.
usends.com - US highway endpoints, photos, maps, and history

TheStranger

#16
Quote from: myosh_tino on December 01, 2016, 01:32:15 PM
Quote from: TheStranger on December 01, 2016, 01:57:40 AM
This map from 1933 is interesting in this context:

https://www.lincolnhighwayassoc.org/ca/traveler/2001-03/bay_area.html

US 50 and US 101E concurrent on an alignment a bit west of today's MacArthur route?! The future Bay Bridge and MacArthur Maze are shown as proposed on here, but what is somewhat unclear is 40 crossing the Bay and 101 through SF city limits.

If you go by the red lines within the city of San Francisco, I'd say US 101 followed Mission to Market to Van Ness to Bay to Hyde and then a ferry ride across the bay to Sausalito.

Based on this 1934 state highway map, looks like US 101W actually used Valencia Street (from Mission) to get to Market, then Van Ness.

http://www.americanroads.us/citymaps/1934CaStateMapSanFrancisco.png

(Left turns from Market to Van Ness have not been possible for years now though)
Chris Sampang

coatimundi

Quote from: usends on December 02, 2016, 12:04:44 PM
Yes: in April I found some additional historic maps and new information, so I revised the content at that time.

Question is: is your site the source for all the other stuff online that says the ferry from Berkeley carried US 40? I haven't found any citations for that specific piece of information on any of the sites that mention it.

Quote from: usends on December 02, 2016, 12:04:44 PM
Quote from: coatimundi on November 30, 2016, 12:33:44 AM
I thought that site had been shut down and was no longer available. Is someone else writing their content now?
No, it's still me.  Out of curiosity, what gave you the impression the site had been shut down?

I think I read something about another site being closed on the General forum, saw USEnds mentioned there as well, conflated the two, then self-confirmed it when I hit the broken link through Google.

usends

#18
Quote from: coatimundi on December 02, 2016, 06:16:32 PM
Question is: is your site the source for all the other stuff online that says the ferry from Berkeley carried US 40? I haven't found any citations for that specific piece of information on any of the sites that mention it.
It's often difficult to find reliable information about highway routings in the late-1920s/early '30s timeframe, and I've certainly found that to be the case in the Bay area.  In addition to the 1931 photo in this thread, there are other online photos of the Berkeley terminal and the Hyde Park terminal that show US 40 markers.  So I think those are the sources of the notion that US 40 officially used that ferry line.  However, I've since come to doubt that.  For one thing, Jake sent me an old newspaper article showing that Caltrans didn't have responsibility for any roads in S.F. until 1933 (as NE2 already alluded to).  So any US route signs at Hyde Park prior to that were unofficial... meaning they were probably put up by the ferry company, simply to let customers know "This ferry provides a connection to US 40".

A few other things to consider:
According to the old us-highways.com site, AASHO's 1927 route log had US 40 ending in Oakland, but by 1932 it had apparently been extended to S.F.  I think it was about 1929 when US 101 was split into US 101E and US 101W.  Whenever that happened, US 101E traffic must have been directed across the Bay somehow... and that might have been when US 40 traffic was also directed across the Bay.  My hunch is that both US 101E and US 40 used the Oakland-Market Street ferry (rather than Berkeley-Hyde Park)... but frustratingly the 1933 map posted in this thread does not show which ferry terminal US 101E traffic was directed to.  The 1935 map on my page suggests all US routes used the Oakland-Market ferry.  It would be interesting to see historic photos that show what kind of signage was at the Oakland and/or Market terminals during that timeframe.
usends.com - US highway endpoints, photos, maps, and history

andy3175

Quote from: usends on December 03, 2016, 09:46:13 AM
For one thing, Jake sent me an old newspaper article showing that Caltrans didn't have responsibility for any roads in S.F. until 1933 (as NE2 already alluded to).  So any US route signs at Hyde Park prior to that were unofficial... meaning they were probably put up by the ferry company, simply to let customers know "This ferry provides a connection to US 40".

I can't locate it, but did the Nov 11, 1926 AASHO list of US Highways show US 40 serving San Francisco or just Oakland?

Most road signs in California were placed by the two major automobile clubs in the starting in the 1900s and continuing into the 1920s and 1930s, in some cases before the state even took over maintenance of the roadway. I can't see the details of that Hyde Street Pier picture too well, but it's possible the logo at the bottom is one belonging to California State Automobile Association (CSAA). Maybe CSAA placed these markers to aid with traveler information. State maintenance did not necessary correspond to route signing back in these early days. I don't know if the US Ends site should correspond to private signage pointing the way to routes or if the site should only acknowledge state-placed and maintenance signage. California relied on private route markers for some time after other states moved toward public signage of routes.

Although this is probably too much information for the topic of where US 40 ends, here is a quote from the publication "The Spirit of the Road," which commemorates 100 Years of CSAA (page 41):

Quote... It was CSAA that pioneered the art of directional signs on California highways. Indeed, CSAA and its cousin, the Automobile Club of Southern California, were for many years to the official road-signing agencies for the state, absorbing the bulk of the considerable cost themselves. (In 1932, when the suggestion was floated that the state take over all road signing, CSAA's careful bookkeepers could report that the organization had spent $549,707.26 on road signing since October 1, 1923, when such figure began to be kept.) The first CSAA road sign was erected in 1908, at the corner of 19th Avenue and Parkside Boulevard in San Francisco.  ... By 1937, Motor Land [magazine] could report that the organization had placed 135,000 signs throughout northern California. ... Signage remained a principal [sic] activity of CSAA until 1947, when the state finally decided to take over the job on state-managed roadways. A number of counties and cities asked CSAA to continue providing their signs, which it did until 1969, when it ceased signing activities altogether.
Regards,
Andy

www.aaroads.com

coatimundi

#20
I think it's poignant to bring up this, regarding AAA's precursory organization's role in signage and, thus, where routes went. I mean, it's clear in early maps that highway designations just did not have the same weight that they do today. The employment of complex pre-routing directions ("follow the railroad tracks to the red barn, turn right until you reach the cemetery...") was probably still much more common than saying, simply, "Follow Route 40" simply because signage was much less consistent.
My point being that it is, really, a bit of a goose chase regarding the exact routing of US 40 within San Francisco. I realize I started this, but I also understood that the answer may not be so clear, and it obviously is not.

I wanted to get back to my OP though, regarding the discrepancies between the US 40 and Victory Highway routings? I am genuinely curious on this one, to know why places like Locke and Rio Vista got shafted once the modern highway came in.

Hiroshi66

Quote from: coatimundi on December 04, 2016, 04:15:48 PM

I wanted to get back to my OP though, regarding the discrepancies between the US 40 and Victory Highway routings? I am genuinely curious on this one, to know why places like Locke and Rio Vista got shafted once the modern highway came in.

Yes, that's quite interesting to think about, too. Was the current routing of CA 160 through the delta (which I believe the Victory Highway followed) considered not good enough for whatever reason? I do love that road, and it feels like I'm back in time. It's always my favorite way to get back from Sacramento to the East Bay - even if it's a major detour. But, you do criss-cross the river several times and I wonder if it was just easier for them to utilize another alignment when the modern highway came in?

For those who have taken 160, could you have seen this alignment being used for the modern highway?

TheStranger

Quote from: Hiroshi66 on December 09, 2016, 11:04:51 AM

For those who have taken 160, could you have seen this alignment being used for the modern highway?


I've done 160 (1934-1964 Route 24) numerous times on drives between Sacramento and the Bay Area and I can see why it was never designated as part of US 40 or any other higher-level numbered route:

- the river crossings involve very narrow two-lane bridges, at somewhat arbitrary points (there are times when taking county roads between two points along Route 160 is more logical than using the state-maintained crossings)

- while not the narrowest two lane road, certainly it isn't in a spot where much of it it can be widened at all, given the proximity of the river and of the levees that the route was built upon

- Route 160 does have a surprising amount of truck traffic...but very few opportunities for passing.

In addition, the US 40/modern I-80 route between Oakland and Sacramento seems to be a bit more direct, at 81 miles compared to the 24/680/242/4/160 route which is around 94 miles long.
Chris Sampang

sparker

Quote from: TheStranger on December 13, 2016, 05:29:57 AM
Quote from: Hiroshi66 on December 09, 2016, 11:04:51 AM

For those who have taken 160, could you have seen this alignment being used for the modern highway?


I've done 160 (1934-1964 Route 24) numerous times on drives between Sacramento and the Bay Area and I can see why it was never designated as part of US 40 or any other higher-level numbered route:

- the river crossings involve very narrow two-lane bridges, at somewhat arbitrary points (there are times when taking county roads between two points along Route 160 is more logical than using the state-maintained crossings)

- while not the narrowest two lane road, certainly it isn't in a spot where much of it it can be widened at all, given the proximity of the river and of the levees that the route was built upon

- Route 160 does have a surprising amount of truck traffic...but very few opportunities for passing.

In addition, the US 40/modern I-80 route between Oakland and Sacramento seems to be a bit more direct, at 81 miles compared to the 24/680/242/4/160 route which is around 94 miles long.

The old Antioch Bridge, a through-truss affair with a lift span (although somewhat high-rise) was one of the narrowest and spindliest bridges in my recall (used it several times in the late '60's and early 70's); I certainly approached it with a bit of fear!  It would have been a disaster to include it as part of a main Sacramento-Bay Area arterial; while the original (and, for quite some time, privately owned) Carquinez span was no prize either, it was far superior (for the lack of a lift span alone!) to the old Antioch crossing.

Hiroshi66

Quote from: TheStranger on December 13, 2016, 05:29:57 AM

I've done 160 (1934-1964 Route 24) numerous times on drives between Sacramento and the Bay Area and I can see why it was never designated as part of US 40 or any other higher-level numbered route:

- the river crossings involve very narrow two-lane bridges, at somewhat arbitrary points (there are times when taking county roads between two points along Route 160 is more logical than using the state-maintained crossings)

- while not the narrowest two lane road, certainly it isn't in a spot where much of it it can be widened at all, given the proximity of the river and of the levees that the route was built upon

- Route 160 does have a surprising amount of truck traffic...but very few opportunities for passing.

In addition, the US 40/modern I-80 route between Oakland and Sacramento seems to be a bit more direct, at 81 miles compared to the 24/680/242/4/160 route which is around 94 miles long.

Totally agree with these points, especially the last one. 160 is great and very scenic, but at the end of the day, it isn't as direct  (or quick) as the old US 40 routing. I guess that's why there was a break between the routings of the Victory Highway and US 40.

Interestingly enough, whenever there is traffic on the 80 heading back to the Bay from Sacramento, GPS does recommend motorists to get on 160. Maybe that explains the influx of truck traffic, as well as congestion (especially at the intersection where 160 meets CA 12).



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