Responding to other drivers bad habits

Started by webny99, December 21, 2017, 11:36:26 AM

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1995hoo

Quote from: SidS1045 on January 25, 2018, 03:11:31 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on December 22, 2017, 10:09:55 AMNo headlights people at dusk, in my experience, are generally drunks or people with beater cars not wanting to alert the cops to the fact they have no or only on headlight.  If you cannot afford basic repairs to your car, you cannot afford to own a car.

There are at least two other reasons for no headlights:

1) These days many dashboards are back-lit when the ignition is on.  IOW, no difference in the dashboard's appearance whether it's day or night, leading some to neglect turning on their lights.

....

My dashboard gauges do that (nothing visible when car is off, then they light up when you turn it on), but at night the gauges are extremely bright if the headlights aren't on–when you turn on the lights, the gauges dim. For this reason I find it hard to picture backlit dashboard gauges having the same brightness both day and night.

The people I really don't understand are the ones who drive around with just the parking lights at dusk or at night. I don't see the point.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.


J N Winkler

Quote from: roadman on January 25, 2018, 04:10:43 PMThis!  For the first six months or so after I got my 2012 Focus, which is the first car I've owned with "always on" dashboard illumination, I had several occasions where I would forget to turn my headlights on for exactly this reason.  I'd usually figure out to turn on the lights weren't on within a couple of miles, but it was still disconcerting.  File under "things designers never considered when adding new gimmicks but probably should have."

I suspect design choices like this often reflect a deliberate attempt to re-shape drivers' habits rather than simple failure to think of ergonomic concerns.  Every car I have ever driven that has auto dashboard illumination (always on when the engine is running) both dims the gauges when the headlamps are on, and illuminates a headlamps-on indicator.  The clear expectation with newer cars is that drivers will check for the headlamps-on indicator before they exit the car.

My daily driver (1994 Saturn SL2) is the last car in the family fleet with no automation of headlamps or dashboard illumination and also no headlamps-on idiot light.  The roadtrip car (2005 Toyota Camry) has auto headlamps that are tied not only to gauge cluster lighting but also to the courtesy lighting system.  This means that if the car is parked and a door or trunk is opened during the headlamp delay period, the headlamps will not turn off until all doors and the trunk are closed.  Since the headlamps are an enormous battery drain, I often turn the headlamp switch from AUTO to OFF and back to AUTO again just to get rid of the courtesy illumination when I am in a well-lit parking lot and have the trunk open for an extended period.

The prevalence of auto headlamps in newer cars has also given rise to an annoying problem:  people park their cars at the curb after dark, having essentially finished their trips, and then sit futzing with their phones--often with the engine running and wasting gas--so that the headlamps don't turn off and continue to blind other people coming down the street.

As regards car lighting design in general, I really object to GM using the backup lamps as part of the remote keyless entry system, as this fools passing drivers into thinking the vehicle is about to back up when its engine is not even running.  GM's stated excuse for this design choice (which is essentially unique to GM and attracts much criticism on auto forums) is that it alerts passing motorists to young children who may be running out to a just-unlocked vehicle without first checking for traffic.  I think this amounts to crying wolf and sets the stage for parking-lot collisions in cases where the GM vehicle is occupied, the engine is running, and the driver is actually about to reverse out.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

J N Winkler

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 26, 2018, 11:45:08 AMMy dashboard gauges do that (nothing visible when car is off, then they light up when you turn it on), but at night the gauges are extremely bright if the headlights aren't on–when you turn on the lights, the gauges dim. For this reason I find it hard to picture backlit dashboard gauges having the same brightness both day and night.

I would be extremely surprised if your car didn't also have a headlamps-on idiot light.

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 26, 2018, 11:45:08 AMThe people I really don't understand are the ones who drive around with just the parking lights at dusk or at night. I don't see the point.

I do, and in some jurisdictions (notably Britain) this is legal.  The general idea is that your low beams are unnecessarily dazzling to other drivers when the street lighting provides adequate illumination.  Nowadays even in Britain it is the norm to drive with low beams on even where there is street lighting, but the option to use parking lights only still exists and the dazzle concern gave rise to a short-lived experiment with "dim-dip" headlamps in the late 1980's, which Britain was forced to abandon in order to comply with EU homologation requirements.

In Britain, if you have an automatic and are waiting at a stoplight, it is still considered polite to take the transmission out of gear and set the parking brake--instead of leaving the transmission in Drive and using the service brake to restrain creep--so that your brake lights do not dazzle drivers that draw up behind you.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

kalvado

Quote from: J N Winkler on January 26, 2018, 11:46:37 AM
  The clear expectation with newer cars is that drivers will check for the headlamps-on indicator before they exit the car.
Of course my car is different from yours - but I do not touch headlights switch or look at dashbord indicator, and I believe it is designed that way.
Switch is always on low beams. Headlights go off when I turn off ignition. If I want headlights with car not running, I have to go off-on. That turns on headlights and initiate an audible alarm.

1995hoo

Quote from: J N Winkler on January 26, 2018, 11:54:46 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 26, 2018, 11:45:08 AMMy dashboard gauges do that (nothing visible when car is off, then they light up when you turn it on), but at night the gauges are extremely bright if the headlights aren't on–when you turn on the lights, the gauges dim. For this reason I find it hard to picture backlit dashboard gauges having the same brightness both day and night.

I would be extremely surprised if your car didn't also have a headlamps-on idiot light.

It does, the standard green headlights-on indicator most Honda/Acura vehicles use. I didn't mention it because I didn't think it was relevant to the point I was making.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

J N Winkler

Quote from: kalvado on January 26, 2018, 11:58:09 AMOf course my car is different from yours - but I do not touch headlights switch or look at dashbord indicator, and I believe it is designed that way.

Switch is always on low beams. Headlights go off when I turn off ignition. If I want headlights with car not running, I have to go off-on. That turns on headlights and initiate an audible alarm.

It sounds like you have auto headlamps without courtesy illumination.  The family fleet also includes a 2009 Honda Fit that has no auto headlamps, no courtesy lighting, and no battery protection that turns headlamps off when the car has been idle for a long period of time.  In that case avoiding battery rundown (for a deaf driver) means either checking the headlamps-on indicator or walking past the headlights while leaving the car.

One of several reasons I now park nose-out whenever possible is to make the lights harder to ignore as I walk away from the car.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

kalvado

Quote from: J N Winkler on January 26, 2018, 12:32:56 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 26, 2018, 11:58:09 AMOf course my car is different from yours - but I do not touch headlights switch or look at dashbord indicator, and I believe it is designed that way.

Switch is always on low beams. Headlights go off when I turn off ignition. If I want headlights with car not running, I have to go off-on. That turns on headlights and initiate an audible alarm.

It sounds like you have auto headlamps without courtesy illumination.  The family fleet also includes a 2009 Honda Fit that has no auto headlamps, no courtesy lighting, and no battery protection that turns headlamps off when the car has been idle for a long period of time.  In that case avoiding battery rundown (for a deaf driver) means either checking the headlamps-on indicator or walking past the headlights while leaving the car.

One of several reasons I now park nose-out whenever possible is to make the lights harder to ignore as I walk away from the car.

It is not "auto" - that is different setting. My headlights are "on". And there is a full battery protection ( with override option) - so I don't need to check..


J N Winkler

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 26, 2018, 12:27:07 PMIt does, the standard green headlights-on indicator most Honda/Acura vehicles use. I didn't mention it because I didn't think it was relevant to the point I was making.

I wanted to direct attention to the headlamps-on indicator because the difference in gauge cluster lighting between headlamps-on (usually night) and headlamps-off is often too subtle to see easily under direct sunlight.  For compliance purposes it is often necessary to deploy headlamps during the day--e.g. during rainstorms in jurisdictions that require the headlamps to be on when wipers are necessary, or when driving in a safety corridor with a mandatory daytime headlamp use requirement.  In such cases the headlamps-on indicator may be all that stands between the driver and an unintentionally discharged battery.

I am happy the roadtrip car has headlamp DRL because this allows me to dispose of compliance requirements without having to take the headlamps out of auto mode.  In newer cars this will no longer be the case because it is now required that DRL be provided from fixtures visually separate from the headlamps, to prevent precisely this trick of using DRL to fake low-beam headlamp use.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

J N Winkler

Quote from: kalvado on January 26, 2018, 12:38:02 PMIt is not "auto" - that is different setting. My headlights are "on". And there is a full battery protection (with override option) - so I don't need to check.

If you don't mind me asking, which model is this?
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

roadman

Quote from: J N Winkler on January 26, 2018, 12:49:37 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 26, 2018, 12:27:07 PMIt does, the standard green headlights-on indicator most Honda/Acura vehicles use. I didn't mention it because I didn't think it was relevant to the point I was making.

I wanted to direct attention to the headlamps-on indicator because the difference in gauge cluster lighting between headlamps-on (usually night) and headlamps-off is often too subtle to see easily under direct sunlight.  For compliance purposes it is often necessary to deploy headlamps during the day--e.g. during rainstorms in jurisdictions that require the headlamps to be on when wipers are necessary, or when driving in a safety corridor with a mandatory daytime headlamp use requirement.  In such cases the headlamps-on indicator may be all that stands between the driver and an unintentionally discharged battery.

I am happy the roadtrip car has headlamp DRL because this allows me to dispose of compliance requirements without having to take the headlamps out of auto mode.  In newer cars this will no longer be the case because it is now required that DRL be provided from fixtures visually separate from the headlamps, to prevent precisely this trick of using DRL to fake low-beam headlamp use.
In my 2012 Focus, if you shut the ignition off with the headlights on, the headlights go out and only the parking lights remain illuminated.  You also get a buzzer alarm when you open the door to remind you the headlight switch is still on.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

kalvado

Quote from: J N Winkler on January 26, 2018, 12:51:49 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 26, 2018, 12:38:02 PMIt is not "auto" - that is different setting. My headlights are "on". And there is a full battery protection (with override option) - so I don't need to check.

If you don't mind me asking, which model is this?
Subaru Legacy 2017

RobbieL2415

Quote from: SidS1045 on January 25, 2018, 03:11:31 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on December 22, 2017, 10:09:55 AMNo headlights people at dusk, in my experience, are generally drunks or people with beater cars not wanting to alert the cops to the fact they have no or only on headlight.  If you cannot afford basic repairs to your car, you cannot afford to own a car.

There are at least two other reasons for no headlights:

1) These days many dashboards are back-lit when the ignition is on.  IOW, no difference in the dashboard's appearance whether it's day or night, leading some to neglect turning on their lights.

2) Daytime running lights.  The driver sees some forward illumination, and thinks that's OK...but there are no lights in the rear at all (except for brake lights), and only the dimmed or smaller lights facing forward.  The Massachusetts State Police recently issued a press release about this, saying "daytime running lights are NOT legal during times when headlights are required."
Are they legal during the daytime when the wipers are in use?  CT allows DRLs in lieu of headlights in that situation.

kalvado

Quote from: RobbieL2415 on January 28, 2018, 07:01:50 PM
Quote from: SidS1045 on January 25, 2018, 03:11:31 PM

2) Daytime running lights.  The driver sees some forward illumination, and thinks that's OK...but there are no lights in the rear at all (except for brake lights), and only the dimmed or smaller lights facing forward.  The Massachusetts State Police recently issued a press release about this, saying "daytime running lights are NOT legal during times when headlights are required."
Are they legal during the daytime when the wipers are in use?  CT allows DRLs in lieu of headlights in that situation.
Not in NYS. From the driver manual:
QuoteNew York State law requires you to turn on your headlights when the weather conditions require the use of windshield wipers to clear rain, snow, sleet or fog. "Daytime lights" do not qualify as headlights.

The way I explain that to myself - you're turning on lights to make car visible to other drivers. So rear lights are essential - but they come on only with full headlights, not daylights.

SignGeek101

Around here, the biggest thing for me would be people yielding to traffic instead of merging into traffic. Common around here considering there aren't any freeways.

Texting and driving.

I just try not to think about it too much when I drive and make sure I don't do those things myself.

roadman65

Moving over to pass a slowpoke on the right.  Apparently, a guy behind me who I had no idea was full of road rage and though I cut him off and blocked him from a smooth flow.  When he got beside me he gave me the finger and I reciprocated. He did not like that and got in front of me and put his brakes on fast, however I did not slow down.

I do not know what I was thinking as if I hit him, regardless of provocation I would be responsible for the collision and if he got whiplash (hard to prove or disprove) I could be paying him money forever.  Anyway, never mess with road rage.  I have enough assholes at my plaza where I collect money from people who did not know they were on a toll road despite all the ramps with the TOLL SR FL Shields on them.  You point that out and they get into a fit even if you ask them if they have a quarter when they are 25 cents short to pay a simple priced toll.  I seen one guy go after another toll collector when she disbelieved the guy had no coins in his pocket to fulfill the $2.50 toll with threats to get her fired for preaching morals to him.

Let another go if they piss you off as 98 percent of them are full of rage.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

SidS1045

Quote from: RobbieL2415 on January 28, 2018, 07:01:50 PMAre they legal during the daytime when the wipers are in use?

Not in MA.  The law says "headlights"  must be illuminated when wipers are in use.
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow

Hurricane Rex

Drivers in snow: avoid the busy snowy roads at all costs. It frustrates me to no end.
ODOT, raise the speed limit and fix our traffic problems.

Road and weather geek for life.

Running till I die.



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