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Author Topic: Complete NC 540 Project  (Read 37835 times)

tolbs17

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2019, 04:24:58 PM »

I don't think "complete 540" is going to be effective at reducing traffic on I-40. Uncongested trip times for through drivers will be significantly shorter on I-40, since I-40 is quite a bit shorter. So given that it is a toll road that will cost money to use, through traffic will only use it as a bypass when I-40 is significantly congested - meaning no relief of congestion on I-40.

It *will* provide an effective cutoff route for drivers heading between Pittsboro on US64 or Sanford on US1, and Wilmington on I-40 or Selma/Goldsboro/etc on I-42, but I don't think that will be enough to move the needle on I-40 congestion very much.

Make no mistake. The main purpose of this road is to enable sprawl in southern Wake County.
How about they remove tolls on the existing Triangle Expressway and you can see more I-40 drivers using that!!! There will be a BIG difference if they do so.
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sprjus4

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2019, 05:56:09 PM »

through traffic will only use it as a bypass when I-40 is significantly congested - meaning no relief of congestion on I-40.
Thru traffic uses NC-540 to avoid I-40 congestion - therefore you're taking traffic off of I-40 for every vehicle that uses NC-540 as a bypass.

You're entire post contradicts itself.

Uncongested trip times for through drivers will be significantly shorter on I-40, since I-40 is quite a bit shorter.
Disagree. The toll road (NC-147 and NC-540) between either end will be about 34 miles long, I-40 is currently 31 miles.

I-40 is fully posted at 65 mph thruout, which is a 29 minute trip obeying the speed limit. NC-147 and NC-540 are fully posted at 70 mph thruout, which is also a 29 minute trip.

Uncongested times - both will have the exact same travel time. Here's where NC-540 becomes more appealing to drivers though - less traffic overall, more spaced out exit / entry points, a straighter road throughout, maintains 6 lanes (3 each way), a mainly rural highway design and a rural 70 mph speed limit. I'd imagine a lot of drivers would still stick with I-40 though due to no congestion, but that wouldn't be an issue as there's no congestion. There will most likely be at least one vehicle that opts to take NC-540, so there's still -some- traffic removed the highway.

Congested times is a whole different story. Right now, Google Maps estimates 1 hour of travel time between either end of the bypass, which would be a mere 29 minutes on a bypass. Easy decision to use the bypass, and the toll wouldn't be an issue for many as it's fairly reasonable rate. The existing 17 miles is $3.37, so for 34 miles, it'd likely be around $7 for all 34 miles with a NC QuickPass, E-ZPass, SunPass, or PeachPass. Then you get all those benefits I posted above - less traffic overall, more spaced out exit / entry points, a straighter road throughout, maintains 6 lanes (3 each way), a mainly rural highway design and a rural 70 mph speed limit.

If I was a long distance traveler, I'd probably stick with I-40 during times of no congestion, but during peak hours or congestion, I'd easily pay the toll to avoid the city.

Make no mistake. The main purpose of this road is to enable sprawl in southern Wake County.
Part of it, but also as a bypass for I-40 which will be decently utilized, and also to complete the entire beltway around Raleigh.
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wdcrft63

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2019, 06:16:42 PM »

through traffic will only use it as a bypass when I-40 is significantly congested - meaning no relief of congestion on I-40.
Thru traffic uses NC-540 to avoid I-40 congestion - therefore you're taking traffic off of I-40 for every vehicle that uses NC-540 as a bypass.

You're entire post contradicts itself.

Uncongested trip times for through drivers will be significantly shorter on I-40, since I-40 is quite a bit shorter.
Disagree. The toll road (NC-147 and NC-540) between either end will be about 34 miles long, I-40 is currently 31 miles.

I-40 is fully posted at 65 mph thruout, which is a 29 minute trip obeying the speed limit. NC-147 and NC-540 are fully posted at 70 mph thruout, which is also a 29 minute trip.

Uncongested times - both will have the exact same travel time. Here's where NC-540 becomes more appealing to drivers though - less traffic overall, more spaced out exit / entry points, a straighter road throughout, maintains 6 lanes (3 each way), a mainly rural highway design and a rural 70 mph speed limit. I'd imagine a lot of drivers would still stick with I-40 though due to no congestion, but that wouldn't be an issue as there's no congestion. There will most likely be at least one vehicle that opts to take NC-540, so there's still -some- traffic removed the highway.

Congested times is a whole different story. Right now, Google Maps estimates 1 hour of travel time between either end of the bypass, which would be a mere 29 minutes on a bypass. Easy decision to use the bypass, and the toll wouldn't be an issue for many as it's fairly reasonable rate. The existing 17 miles is $3.37, so for 34 miles, it'd likely be around $7 for all 34 miles with a NC QuickPass, E-ZPass, SunPass, or PeachPass. Then you get all those benefits I posted above - less traffic overall, more spaced out exit / entry points, a straighter road throughout, maintains 6 lanes (3 each way), a mainly rural highway design and a rural 70 mph speed limit.

If I was a long distance traveler, I'd probably stick with I-40 during times of no congestion, but during peak hours or congestion, I'd easily pay the toll to avoid the city.

Make no mistake. The main purpose of this road is to enable sprawl in southern Wake County.
Part of it, but also as a bypass for I-40 which will be decently utilized, and also to complete the entire beltway around Raleigh.
I-40 is congested a large part of the time, not just at the traditional rush hours, and it is often brought to a halt by accidents. This situation will only get worse as the metropolitan area continues to develop. There is a great need for a bypass.
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goobnav

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #53 on: December 05, 2019, 01:46:38 PM »

through traffic will only use it as a bypass when I-40 is significantly congested - meaning no relief of congestion on I-40.
Thru traffic uses NC-540 to avoid I-40 congestion - therefore you're taking traffic off of I-40 for every vehicle that uses NC-540 as a bypass.

You're entire post contradicts itself.

Uncongested trip times for through drivers will be significantly shorter on I-40, since I-40 is quite a bit shorter.
Disagree. The toll road (NC-147 and NC-540) between either end will be about 34 miles long, I-40 is currently 31 miles.

I-40 is fully posted at 65 mph thruout, which is a 29 minute trip obeying the speed limit. NC-147 and NC-540 are fully posted at 70 mph thruout, which is also a 29 minute trip.

Uncongested times - both will have the exact same travel time. Here's where NC-540 becomes more appealing to drivers though - less traffic overall, more spaced out exit / entry points, a straighter road throughout, maintains 6 lanes (3 each way), a mainly rural highway design and a rural 70 mph speed limit. I'd imagine a lot of drivers would still stick with I-40 though due to no congestion, but that wouldn't be an issue as there's no congestion. There will most likely be at least one vehicle that opts to take NC-540, so there's still -some- traffic removed the highway.

Congested times is a whole different story. Right now, Google Maps estimates 1 hour of travel time between either end of the bypass, which would be a mere 29 minutes on a bypass. Easy decision to use the bypass, and the toll wouldn't be an issue for many as it's fairly reasonable rate. The existing 17 miles is $3.37, so for 34 miles, it'd likely be around $7 for all 34 miles with a NC QuickPass, E-ZPass, SunPass, or PeachPass. Then you get all those benefits I posted above - less traffic overall, more spaced out exit / entry points, a straighter road throughout, maintains 6 lanes (3 each way), a mainly rural highway design and a rural 70 mph speed limit.

If I was a long distance traveler, I'd probably stick with I-40 during times of no congestion, but during peak hours or congestion, I'd easily pay the toll to avoid the city.

Make no mistake. The main purpose of this road is to enable sprawl in southern Wake County.
Part of it, but also as a bypass for I-40 which will be decently utilized, and also to complete the entire beltway around Raleigh.
I-40 is congested a large part of the time, not just at the traditional rush hours, and it is often brought to a halt by accidents. This situation will only get worse as the metropolitan area continues to develop. There is a great need for a bypass.

There are already is a bypass, I-540 is posted as an alternate to I-40 for the construction south of Raleigh in the Garner area.  For those traveling east, OBX and NE NC, I-540 is already the better choice for a bypass.  For those going to southeastern NC beaches and cities, I-40 is the better choice.  The only congestion on I-40 is during the week at normal rush hours or due to severe accident.  Most beach traffic is on the weekends and traffic on 40 through the Triangle on the weekends can be moderate but, nowhere near Atlanta or DC levels and extremely manageable.

NC 540 will only benefit the local traffic and only those willing to pay, the newbies used to tolls from up North or out West and those with no thought of cost.  Despite being a 70 mph and same travel time on 40, the cost will be like wasting a extra gallon of gas, $3.37 just to NC 55 currently and you have to have a transponder or, $5.18 without and, that's 2 gallons of gas here locally.  Add that cost and your time savings are negated.  Especially being that the cost of the tolls will be more than what I listed being that the distance traveled will be longer.

NC 540 will not be a viable bypass for southern and southeastern beach and city traffic, unless it wasn't tolled.
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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2019, 02:18:25 PM »

There are already is a bypass, I-540 is posted as an alternate to I-40 for the construction south of Raleigh in the Garner area.  For those traveling east, OBX and NE NC, I-540 is already the better choice for a bypass.  For those going to southeastern NC beaches and cities, I-40 is the better choice.  The only congestion on I-40 is during the week at normal rush hours or due to severe accident.  Most beach traffic is on the weekends and traffic on 40 through the Triangle on the weekends can be moderate but, nowhere near Atlanta or DC levels and extremely manageable.
NC 540 will only benefit the local traffic and only those willing to pay, the newbies used to tolls from up North or out West and those with no thought of cost.  Despite being a 70 mph and same travel time on 40, the cost will be like wasting a extra gallon of gas, $3.37 just to NC 55 currently and you have to have a transponder or, $5.18 without and, that's 2 gallons of gas here locally.  Add that cost and your time savings are negated.  Especially being that the cost of the tolls will be more than what I listed being that the distance traveled will be longer.
NC 540 will not be a viable bypass for southern and southeastern beach and city traffic, unless it wasn't tolled.

Are you suggesting that it is a boondoggle and wasteful?
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orulz

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #55 on: December 05, 2019, 02:40:15 PM »

I would fully support making I-40 a managed highway: set tolls at congested times that would cause more through traffic to divert to 540. Basically congestion pricing on 40.

I firmly believe that building our way out of congestion is a fool's errand. As places like Atlanta and LA are finding, trying to do so just costs more and more, while the benefits get smaller and smaller.

So, keeping some people off the road by charging tolls when the highway is at capacity is, in my opinion, a public benefit. A highway's throughput goes DOWN as it exceeds capacity, meaning fewer people can actually get where they are going. So, let the people willing to pay for the ability to drive at the peak, do so. Don't set tolls to maximize revenue; set them just high enough to push enough people out of the peak hour in order to manage congestion.
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sprjus4

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #56 on: December 05, 2019, 04:49:51 PM »

Despite being a 70 mph and same travel time on 40, the cost will be like wasting a extra gallon of gas, $3.37 just to NC 55 currently and you have to have a transponder or, $5.18 without and, that's 2 gallons of gas here locally.  Add that cost and your time savings are negated.  Especially being that the cost of the tolls will be more than what I listed being that the distance traveled will be longer.
You're scenario strictly assumes during off peak and non congested hours. The whole point of the bypass providing congestion relief and a faster route is primarily focused at during rush hour periods. Right now, Google estimates 1 hour 2 minutes to travel the 31 miles between NC-147 and US-70 / I-42. Compare that to a completed NC-540 which would take a mere 29 minutes even at the height of rush hour. It may cost an additional $7 for the 34 mile trip (via a completed NC-540), but you're saving 30 minutes or greater during times of congestion. That's when the bypass matters the most, and would get good use IMO.

For an example, when I was in Texas traveling between Dallas and San Antonio on I-35, I hit Austin at rush hour on a Friday afternoon. Looking at Google Maps, it estimated it was 30 minutes quicker to take TX-130 and I-10 as opposed to I-35 straight thru. I-35 straight thru is 129 miles whereas the bypass is 144 miles. The bypass is also $19 via toll-by-plate (about the same per mile rate that NC-540 would be with a E-ZPass, NC Quick Pass, PeachPass, or SunPass.) Despite the $19 toll, despite the additional mileage, I opted to take the bypass, drive the extra mileage, pay the toll,and completely avoid the city. Completely worth it IMO, and I was never traveling below 80 mph (speed limits are 80 and 85 mph). Before the bypass was completed about a decade ago, that would have been impossible, and I would have had to deal with Austin's horrendous traffic.

I'm not saying the NC-540 bypass will relieve significant congestion on I-40 (no bypass does in a metro that has a large amount of local traffic), nor am I saying further widenings and improvements (like the 8-10 lane widening that's doubling I-40's capacity south of I-87 / I-440) aren't needed, but it provides options for thru traffic during times of congestion to avoid it.
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wdcrft63

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #57 on: December 05, 2019, 06:21:22 PM »

There are already is a bypass, I-540 is posted as an alternate to I-40 for the construction south of Raleigh in the Garner area.  For those traveling east, OBX and NE NC, I-540 is already the better choice for a bypass.  For those going to southeastern NC beaches and cities, I-40 is the better choice.  The only congestion on I-40 is during the week at normal rush hours or due to severe accident.  Most beach traffic is on the weekends and traffic on 40 through the Triangle on the weekends can be moderate but, nowhere near Atlanta or DC levels and extremely manageable.
NC 540 will only benefit the local traffic and only those willing to pay, the newbies used to tolls from up North or out West and those with no thought of cost.  Despite being a 70 mph and same travel time on 40, the cost will be like wasting a extra gallon of gas, $3.37 just to NC 55 currently and you have to have a transponder or, $5.18 without and, that's 2 gallons of gas here locally.  Add that cost and your time savings are negated.  Especially being that the cost of the tolls will be more than what I listed being that the distance traveled will be longer.
NC 540 will not be a viable bypass for southern and southeastern beach and city traffic, unless it wasn't tolled.
On its project page for the current widening of I-40 southeast of Raleigh, NCDOT is projecting that I-40 traffic will increase 65 percent by 2040. If we're smart, we build roads with future congestion in mind.
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sprjus4

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #58 on: December 05, 2019, 06:23:22 PM »

If the northern portion of I-540 is any indication, NC-540 may have to be further expanded to 8-lanes in the future. I-540 is currently in need of that now, despite only being built in the last 15-20 years.

It was a smart and proactive decision of NCDOT to do a full build out with the I-40 expansion, widening the segment between I-87 and US-70 Business from 6 to 10 general purpose lanes, and remaining segment from US-70 Business to NC-42 from 4 to 8 general purpose lanes, rather than simply building a new lane each way. With traffic counts at about 110,000 AADT on the future 10 lane section, and 65,000 - 88,000 AADT on the future 8 lane section, it should be adequate for many years to come. If NCDOT predicts an increase of 65% in volume by 2040, that would mean the future 10 lane section would carry roughly 181,500 AADT, and the future 8 lane section carrying roughly 107,250 - 145,200 AADT in 2040. There would likely be some congestion by then, but far less than there would be if it remained 4-6 lanes. Immediately when the project is completed, all of the congestion that exists presently would likely be completely gone.

Now, NCDOT needs to get started with the 6-lane widening of I-40 between Chapel Hill and I-85, and eventually expand the remainder of I-40 down to I-95 to 6-lanes. That segment carries roughly 50,000 AADT. The segment south of there all the way to Wilmington will be adequate for many decades to come as a 4-lane rural interstate highway, only carrying 20,000 - 22,000 AADT.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2019, 06:34:08 PM by sprjus4 »
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tolbs17

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #59 on: December 05, 2019, 08:56:51 PM »

and eventually expand the remainder of I-40 down to I-95 to 6-lanes. That segment carries roughly 50,000 AADT. The segment south of there all the way to Wilmington will be adequate for many decades to come as a 4-lane rural interstate highway, only carrying 20,000 - 22,000 AADT.
Thought it was going to be expanded to 8 lanes all the way down.

https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_1104B_Report_2014.pdf

W/o toll lanes please!!
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sprjus4

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2019, 04:34:25 AM »

Thought it was going to be expanded to 8 lanes all the way down.

https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_1104B_Report_2014.pdf
Did not see this study before. 6-lanes IMO is adequate with 50,000 AADT, I donít see the need for 8-lanes beyond NC-42.

The segment from Chapel Hill to I-85 is scheduled to begin in a couple of years (assuming NCDOT has fixed its funding issues), and thatís only 6-lanes, and carries more traffic volumes. That should be a priority for an 8-lane section over the section to I-95.
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tolbs17

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2019, 07:35:03 AM »

Thought it was going to be expanded to 8 lanes all the way down.

https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_1104B_Report_2014.pdf
Did not see this study before. 6-lanes IMO is adequate with 50,000 AADT, I donít see the need for 8-lanes beyond NC-42.

The segment from Chapel Hill to I-85 is scheduled to begin in a couple of years (assuming NCDOT has fixed its funding issues), and thatís only 6-lanes, and carries more traffic volumes. That should be a priority for an 8-lane section over the section to I-95.
Yeah, but from the durham county line to I-85, they are building bigger bridges so they can possibly add toll lanes in the future.
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goobnav

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2019, 11:32:07 AM »

There are already is a bypass, I-540 is posted as an alternate to I-40 for the construction south of Raleigh in the Garner area.  For those traveling east, OBX and NE NC, I-540 is already the better choice for a bypass.  For those going to southeastern NC beaches and cities, I-40 is the better choice.  The only congestion on I-40 is during the week at normal rush hours or due to severe accident.  Most beach traffic is on the weekends and traffic on 40 through the Triangle on the weekends can be moderate but, nowhere near Atlanta or DC levels and extremely manageable.
NC 540 will only benefit the local traffic and only those willing to pay, the newbies used to tolls from up North or out West and those with no thought of cost.  Despite being a 70 mph and same travel time on 40, the cost will be like wasting a extra gallon of gas, $3.37 just to NC 55 currently and you have to have a transponder or, $5.18 without and, that's 2 gallons of gas here locally.  Add that cost and your time savings are negated.  Especially being that the cost of the tolls will be more than what I listed being that the distance traveled will be longer.
NC 540 will not be a viable bypass for southern and southeastern beach and city traffic, unless it wasn't tolled.
On its project page for the current widening of I-40 southeast of Raleigh, NCDOT is projecting that I-40 traffic will increase 65 percent by 2040. If we're smart, we build roads with future congestion in mind.

This road was planned over 20 years ago and not as a toll road.  That was it's purpose but, the tolls negate the savings.
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goobnav

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2019, 11:43:47 AM »

There are already is a bypass, I-540 is posted as an alternate to I-40 for the construction south of Raleigh in the Garner area.  For those traveling east, OBX and NE NC, I-540 is already the better choice for a bypass.  For those going to southeastern NC beaches and cities, I-40 is the better choice.  The only congestion on I-40 is during the week at normal rush hours or due to severe accident.  Most beach traffic is on the weekends and traffic on 40 through the Triangle on the weekends can be moderate but, nowhere near Atlanta or DC levels and extremely manageable.
NC 540 will only benefit the local traffic and only those willing to pay, the newbies used to tolls from up North or out West and those with no thought of cost.  Despite being a 70 mph and same travel time on 40, the cost will be like wasting a extra gallon of gas, $3.37 just to NC 55 currently and you have to have a transponder or, $5.18 without and, that's 2 gallons of gas here locally.  Add that cost and your time savings are negated.  Especially being that the cost of the tolls will be more than what I listed being that the distance traveled will be longer.
NC 540 will not be a viable bypass for southern and southeastern beach and city traffic, unless it wasn't tolled.

Are you suggesting that it is a boondoggle and wasteful?

No, just that NC's Congressional Reps need to get back the Highway funding lost to projects in other states that were ridiculously overrun, the Big Dig for example or, start getting a bigger share for the population changes that have occurred. 

The road was planned to be toll free and that NC had to get tolls to get it built because of other BS projects in the country for population losing areas that can't control their spending or contracting are not getting punished is beyond stupid it's just outright theft.  But, it is expected when BS politicians, Bud Schuster for example, can divert funds for an Interstate to nowhere and PA still isn't losing funding and are blatantly spending money meant for road on budget shortfall not related to roads, gas tax raise for road maintenance going to the State Police?!?!?  NC hasn't even come close to such issues, the Map court case isn't even in the ballpark and they didn't steal marked funds for it.

But, I can rant until the cows come home and those lowlifes in DC will still screw areas in need for their own pet BS projects.
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goobnav

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2019, 11:58:41 AM »

Despite being a 70 mph and same travel time on 40, the cost will be like wasting a extra gallon of gas, $3.37 just to NC 55 currently and you have to have a transponder or, $5.18 without and, that's 2 gallons of gas here locally.  Add that cost and your time savings are negated.  Especially being that the cost of the tolls will be more than what I listed being that the distance traveled will be longer.
You're scenario strictly assumes during off peak and non congested hours. The whole point of the bypass providing congestion relief and a faster route is primarily focused at during rush hour periods. Right now, Google estimates 1 hour 2 minutes to travel the 31 miles between NC-147 and US-70 / I-42. Compare that to a completed NC-540 which would take a mere 29 minutes even at the height of rush hour. It may cost an additional $7 for the 34 mile trip (via a completed NC-540), but you're saving 30 minutes or greater during times of congestion. That's when the bypass matters the most, and would get good use IMO.

For an example, when I was in Texas traveling between Dallas and San Antonio on I-35, I hit Austin at rush hour on a Friday afternoon. Looking at Google Maps, it estimated it was 30 minutes quicker to take TX-130 and I-10 as opposed to I-35 straight thru. I-35 straight thru is 129 miles whereas the bypass is 144 miles. The bypass is also $19 via toll-by-plate (about the same per mile rate that NC-540 would be with a E-ZPass, NC Quick Pass, PeachPass, or SunPass.) Despite the $19 toll, despite the additional mileage, I opted to take the bypass, drive the extra mileage, pay the toll,and completely avoid the city. Completely worth it IMO, and I was never traveling below 80 mph (speed limits are 80 and 85 mph). Before the bypass was completed about a decade ago, that would have been impossible, and I would have had to deal with Austin's horrendous traffic.

I'm not saying the NC-540 bypass will relieve significant congestion on I-40 (no bypass does in a metro that has a large amount of local traffic), nor am I saying further widenings and improvements (like the 8-10 lane widening that's doubling I-40's capacity south of I-87 / I-440) aren't needed, but it provides options for thru traffic during times of congestion to avoid it.

You missed the point, I-40 has congestion during normal rush hours, outside of those times the travel through the Triangle is at or above posted speeds.  To use the tolled bypass during those times will save the time but, the loss of savings in money will negate the efficiency.  Example, hey, I saved 30 mins but, spent a half a tank's worth of gas to do it!  That logic makes no sense.  Especially for the through traffic that would use it to get to said recreation of Southern and Southeastern beaches. 
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sprjus4

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2019, 04:35:56 PM »

Example, hey, I saved 30 mins but, spent a half a tank's worth of gas to do it!  That logic makes no sense.  Especially for the through traffic that would use it to get to said recreation of Southern and Southeastern beaches.
Pretty much how any toll road works. You may be shocked to hear this - but people will pay if it means time savings, especially if it's a reasonable rate.

The Monroe Expressway outside of Charlotte for example bypasses 20 miles of arterial stop-and-go US-74, and it's had good usage since it opened. Granted, it's slightly cheaper, but people would still pay regardless. IIRC, Memorial Day weekend had a hike in usage, because all of the beach-bound traffic opted to pay the small toll to avoid the congested arterial road.

Here in Chesapeake, the city built the Chesapeake Expressway back in 2001 parallel to 2-lane Battlefield Blvd. During weekends in the summer, when all of the tourists are traveling between the north and the Outer Banks, the city hikes the toll from $3 to $8 one-way for a 6 mile stretch that saves at most 5-10 minutes from the 2-lane route. But guess what - a majority of the thru traffic still pays the toll. Not something I'd pay, hell I rarely will pay the $3 off-peak toll just because it's a short stretch (at least on NC-540 $3 would get you close to 20 miles) and only saves 1-2 minutes.

The toll road in Hampton Roads I utilize the most is Dominion Blvd. It's $1.16 at all times, and saves at least 5 to 30 minutes over arterial routes, the most notable time savings when traveling between I-64 and VA-165 Cedar Rd. I use it at least 5 times per month, sometimes 10 or more. I've also utilized the I-64 Express Lanes frequently, though it's only tolled during peak hours, and the tolls are generally below $2 for the 7-mile stretch. I'll only pay when the general purpose lanes are congested, but most times when going through the area, it's toll free.

Numerous other examples around the country.

No, just that NC's Congressional Reps need to get back the Highway funding lost to projects in other states that were ridiculously overrun, the Big Dig for example or, start getting a bigger share for the population changes that have occurred. 

The road was planned to be toll free and that NC had to get tolls to get it built because of other BS projects in the country for population losing areas that can't control their spending or contracting are not getting punished is beyond stupid it's just outright theft.  But, it is expected when BS politicians, Bud Schuster for example, can divert funds for an Interstate to nowhere and PA still isn't losing funding and are blatantly spending money meant for road on budget shortfall not related to roads, gas tax raise for road maintenance going to the State Police?!?!?  NC hasn't even come close to such issues, the Map court case isn't even in the ballpark and they didn't steal marked funds for it.

But, I can rant until the cows come home and those lowlifes in DC will still screw areas in need for their own pet BS projects.
I will agree, I do find it strange Winston-Salem, Greensboro, Charlotte, Fayetteville, and Wilmington, all at least $2 billion or more each, all have gotten beltways in the past decade or are under construction all toll free, but Raleigh's southern beltway somehow couldn't get the funding needed. At least northern I-540, the US-64 (I-87) Knightdale Bypass, and the US-70 (I-42) Clayton Bypass got built toll-free back in the early 2000s.

It would be interesting if they could somehow come up with the $2 billion (that's just for the Complete 540 portion, not including the existing 17 mile toll section) needed to pay that highway off and eliminate the tolls. That is a concept I would support, same with the ~$700 million Monroe Expressway, along with converting one of the toll lanes north of Charlotte to a general purpose lane (leaving one HO/T lane each way on the existing 2+2 HO/T section, and eliminating the HO/T lanes completely on the 1+1 section).
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 04:43:44 PM by sprjus4 »
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wdcrft63

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2019, 06:25:02 PM »

Good points about the other beltways, but Winston-Salem has had to wait a very long time for its beltway to be built without tolls.
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sprjus4

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #67 on: December 06, 2019, 06:29:21 PM »

Good points about the other beltways, but Winston-Salem has had to wait a very long time for its beltway to be built without tolls.
Well, that wait has paid off. Now they're getting a nearly $2 billion 6-lane interstate highway beltway without tolls.
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Roadsguy

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #68 on: December 06, 2019, 09:28:54 PM »

Good points about the other beltways, but Winston-Salem has had to wait a very long time for its beltway to be built without tolls.
Well, that wait has paid off. Now they're getting a nearly $2 billion 6-lane interstate highway beltway without tolls.

Well, half of one for now. The I-274 half was delayed because of NCDOT's recent funding problems.
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tolbs17

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #69 on: December 06, 2019, 09:42:13 PM »

Good points about the other beltways, but Winston-Salem has had to wait a very long time for its beltway to be built without tolls.
Well, that wait has paid off. Now they're getting a nearly $2 billion 6-lane interstate highway beltway without tolls.

Well, half of one for now. The I-274 half was delayed because of NCDOT's recent funding problems.
Which were mainly because of Hurricane Dorian.
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LM117

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #70 on: December 06, 2019, 10:33:56 PM »

Good points about the other beltways, but Winston-Salem has had to wait a very long time for its beltway to be built without tolls.

Part of the reason for the long wait was litigation.
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goobnav

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2019, 09:55:56 AM »

Example, hey, I saved 30 mins but, spent a half a tank's worth of gas to do it!  That logic makes no sense.  Especially for the through traffic that would use it to get to said recreation of Southern and Southeastern beaches.
Pretty much how any toll road works. You may be shocked to hear this - but people will pay if it means time savings, especially if it's a reasonable rate.

The Monroe Expressway outside of Charlotte for example bypasses 20 miles of arterial stop-and-go US-74, and it's had good usage since it opened. Granted, it's slightly cheaper, but people would still pay regardless. IIRC, Memorial Day weekend had a hike in usage, because all of the beach-bound traffic opted to pay the small toll to avoid the congested arterial road.

Here in Chesapeake, the city built the Chesapeake Expressway back in 2001 parallel to 2-lane Battlefield Blvd. During weekends in the summer, when all of the tourists are traveling between the north and the Outer Banks, the city hikes the toll from $3 to $8 one-way for a 6 mile stretch that saves at most 5-10 minutes from the 2-lane route. But guess what - a majority of the thru traffic still pays the toll. Not something I'd pay, hell I rarely will pay the $3 off-peak toll just because it's a short stretch (at least on NC-540 $3 would get you close to 20 miles) and only saves 1-2 minutes.

The toll road in Hampton Roads I utilize the most is Dominion Blvd. It's $1.16 at all times, and saves at least 5 to 30 minutes over arterial routes, the most notable time savings when traveling between I-64 and VA-165 Cedar Rd. I use it at least 5 times per month, sometimes 10 or more. I've also utilized the I-64 Express Lanes frequently, though it's only tolled during peak hours, and the tolls are generally below $2 for the 7-mile stretch. I'll only pay when the general purpose lanes are congested, but most times when going through the area, it's toll free.

Numerous other examples around the country.

No, just that NC's Congressional Reps need to get back the Highway funding lost to projects in other states that were ridiculously overrun, the Big Dig for example or, start getting a bigger share for the population changes that have occurred. 

The road was planned to be toll free and that NC had to get tolls to get it built because of other BS projects in the country for population losing areas that can't control their spending or contracting are not getting punished is beyond stupid it's just outright theft.  But, it is expected when BS politicians, Bud Schuster for example, can divert funds for an Interstate to nowhere and PA still isn't losing funding and are blatantly spending money meant for road on budget shortfall not related to roads, gas tax raise for road maintenance going to the State Police?!?!?  NC hasn't even come close to such issues, the Map court case isn't even in the ballpark and they didn't steal marked funds for it.

But, I can rant until the cows come home and those lowlifes in DC will still screw areas in need for their own pet BS projects.
I will agree, I do find it strange Winston-Salem, Greensboro, Charlotte, Fayetteville, and Wilmington, all at least $2 billion or more each, all have gotten beltways in the past decade or are under construction all toll free, but Raleigh's southern beltway somehow couldn't get the funding needed. At least northern I-540, the US-64 (I-87) Knightdale Bypass, and the US-70 (I-42) Clayton Bypass got built toll-free back in the early 2000s.

It would be interesting if they could somehow come up with the $2 billion (that's just for the Complete 540 portion, not including the existing 17 mile toll section) needed to pay that highway off and eliminate the tolls. That is a concept I would support, same with the ~$700 million Monroe Expressway, along with converting one of the toll lanes north of Charlotte to a general purpose lane (leaving one HO/T lane each way on the existing 2+2 HO/T section, and eliminating the HO/T lanes completely on the 1+1 section).

That's it, it won't be reasonable, just ask the truckers who take I-80 in PA to avoid the PA Turnpike to go across the state to get to and from the Northeast, the time doesn't justify the expense.  This argument has been on going in the Triangle since the road was said to be finished with tolls despite half not having tolls.
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wdcrft63

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #72 on: December 18, 2019, 04:32:00 PM »

Breaking news from WRAL:

"The U.S. Department of Transportation will loan the North Carolina Turnpike Authority up to $501.5 million to help finance construction of the N.C. Highway 540 toll road in southern Wake County, U.S. Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao said Wednesday."

"This $501.5 million federal investment in transportation infrastructure in the Raleigh region will promote economic growth while enhancing mobility and reducing congestion for area residents and travelers," Chao said in a statement.

"The state will use toll revenue from the highway to repay the loan."

https://www.wral.com/feds-loaning-nc-500m-to-speed-construction-of-nc-540-loop/18841276/
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ARMOURERERIC

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #73 on: December 18, 2019, 07:19:03 PM »

Will this free up any previously taped source of funds to be utilized elsewhere?
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wdcrft63

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Re: Complete NC 540 Project
« Reply #74 on: December 19, 2019, 06:29:13 PM »

Will this free up any previously taped source of funds to be utilized elsewhere?
No. It's a tollway project. The NC Turnpike Authority was going to borrow money from somewhere; this is just a better loan than they could probably get on the market.
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