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Author Topic: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)  (Read 20790 times)

kphoger

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #125 on: April 08, 2021, 06:58:39 PM »

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #126 on: April 08, 2021, 08:39:36 PM »

https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_0707B_Report-2012.pdf

How are they going to build an interchange on I-40 with an apartment complex in the way?

So...you're taking a 2012 document and applying it wholesale to 2020.  Those apartments didn't exist until about 2015 per historicaerials.com.  Also this was clearly shown in the study on the conceptual design imposed over satellite view on pg. 134. 

Instead of building a time machine and doing the project before the apartments were built, they altered the interchange design.

Take this web address and bookmark it - https://www.ncdot.gov/initiatives-policies/Transportation/stip/Pages/stip-projects-map.aspx - so that you can check whether a past feasibility studty is turned into a STIP item.  Then take the project number and search the ncdot site and you'll get good information like this: https://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Pages/I-5980-2018-11-15.aspx

There are 2 alternatives and neither involves the apartments' footprint.  And the interchange is for its own sake and not part of anything from the feasibility study...

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tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #127 on: April 09, 2021, 09:12:33 AM »

https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_0707B_Report-2012.pdf

How are they going to build an interchange on I-40 with an apartment complex in the way?

So...you're taking a 2012 document and applying it wholesale to 2020.  Those apartments didn't exist until about 2015 per historicaerials.com.  Also this was clearly shown in the study on the conceptual design imposed over satellite view on pg. 134. 

Instead of building a time machine and doing the project before the apartments were built, they altered the interchange design.

Take this web address and bookmark it - https://www.ncdot.gov/initiatives-policies/Transportation/stip/Pages/stip-projects-map.aspx - so that you can check whether a past feasibility studty is turned into a STIP item.  Then take the project number and search the ncdot site and you'll get good information like this: https://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Pages/I-5980-2018-11-15.aspx

There are 2 alternatives and neither involves the apartments' footprint.  And the interchange is for its own sake and not part of anything from the feasibility study...
They can just connect I-40 to I-73. Simple!
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Dirt Roads

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #128 on: April 09, 2021, 10:24:42 AM »

They can just connect I-40 to I-73. Simple!

I think that you missed the point that I-73 is already complete and signed in that area.  After completion of the southwest portion of the Greensboro bypass, both I-40 and I-73 ran concurrent, but I-40 was moved back onto the Death Valley expressway after the freeway was widened west of there.
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tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #129 on: July 17, 2021, 12:43:03 PM »

And when will they do that?  I-26 has been sitting for so long that IMO the portion going into TN shouldn't have been designated at all - at least not until this was done.

Maybe NC and other states would be less gung ho about getting new interstate corridors if they actually had to follow through before they could start benefiting.  It annoys me how so many interstates are in disarray because of segments that won't be built for a long time, if ever.  IMO an interstate shouldn't be allowed to be signed if the addition to the system only makes sense if some other project gets built some day.  Requiring that the system be coherent 100% of the time, with no allowances for planned projects, would protect against things like this.
NCDOT has not ignored the need to rebuild the I-26/I-240 connections in Asheville; it has been working on this problem for many years. The problem has been that Asheville is NIMBY heaven and NCDOT has had to fight over and over again to make any progress. However, a plan is now in place and work could begin as soon as 2021 unless there's yet another hangup.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/asheville-i-26-connector/Pages/default.aspx
...and the website says it still HAS NOT begun yet.
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tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #130 on: July 18, 2021, 10:55:28 PM »

Should have been built as a four-level stack but they chose to keep the same design, just an upgraded one.
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wdcrft63

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #131 on: July 21, 2021, 06:19:48 PM »

And when will they do that?  I-26 has been sitting for so long that IMO the portion going into TN shouldn't have been designated at all - at least not until this was done.

Maybe NC and other states would be less gung ho about getting new interstate corridors if they actually had to follow through before they could start benefiting.  It annoys me how so many interstates are in disarray because of segments that won't be built for a long time, if ever.  IMO an interstate shouldn't be allowed to be signed if the addition to the system only makes sense if some other project gets built some day.  Requiring that the system be coherent 100% of the time, with no allowances for planned projects, would protect against things like this.
NCDOT has not ignored the need to rebuild the I-26/I-240 connections in Asheville; it has been working on this problem for many years. The problem has been that Asheville is NIMBY heaven and NCDOT has had to fight over and over again to make any progress. However, a plan is now in place and work could begin as soon as 2021 unless there's yet another hangup.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/asheville-i-26-connector/Pages/default.aspx
...and the website says it still HAS NOT begun yet.
This project is a prototypical NIMBY horror show. Determined and well funded opposition has delayed the project many years and multiplied its cost so many times that funding shortfalls have delayed it even more. Only the glaringly obvious need for the project has kept NCDOT plugging away, revising and revising, to get to a point where construction appears possible.
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tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #132 on: July 21, 2021, 07:09:21 PM »

And when will they do that?  I-26 has been sitting for so long that IMO the portion going into TN shouldn't have been designated at all - at least not until this was done.

Maybe NC and other states would be less gung ho about getting new interstate corridors if they actually had to follow through before they could start benefiting.  It annoys me how so many interstates are in disarray because of segments that won't be built for a long time, if ever.  IMO an interstate shouldn't be allowed to be signed if the addition to the system only makes sense if some other project gets built some day.  Requiring that the system be coherent 100% of the time, with no allowances for planned projects, would protect against things like this.
NCDOT has not ignored the need to rebuild the I-26/I-240 connections in Asheville; it has been working on this problem for many years. The problem has been that Asheville is NIMBY heaven and NCDOT has had to fight over and over again to make any progress. However, a plan is now in place and work could begin as soon as 2021 unless there's yet another hangup.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/asheville-i-26-connector/Pages/default.aspx
...and the website says it still HAS NOT begun yet.
This project is a prototypical NIMBY horror show. Determined and well funded opposition has delayed the project many years and multiplied its cost so many times that funding shortfalls have delayed it even more. Only the glaringly obvious need for the project has kept NCDOT plugging away, revising and revising, to get to a point where construction appears possible.
I like D1 the best when looking atthis, but i'm guessing they kept the same design for minimal ROW.
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tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #133 on: July 24, 2021, 01:07:54 PM »

So I see Greenville Blvd get backed up every day with cars sitting on the road (yes when ECU is in session) and Arlington Blvd/Dickinson Ave clogged, which means that intersection warrants an interchange? They have a survey, which I'm sure improvements are desperately needed.

The City of Greenville DOES have plans to widen Arlington Blvd to six lanes, I just don't know when they are going to do it.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #134 on: July 24, 2021, 01:14:10 PM »

So I see Greenville Blvd get backed up every day with cars sitting on the road (yes when ECU is in session) and Arlington Blvd/Dickinson Ave clogged, which means that intersection warrants an interchange? They have a survey, which I'm sure improvements are desperately needed.

The City of Greenville DOES have plans to widen Arlington Blvd to six lanes, I just don't know when they are going to do it.

If clogged traffic warrants an interchange, we'd see housing developments with interchanges onto county roads.
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tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #135 on: July 24, 2021, 01:20:20 PM »

So I see Greenville Blvd get backed up every day with cars sitting on the road (yes when ECU is in session) and Arlington Blvd/Dickinson Ave clogged, which means that intersection warrants an interchange? They have a survey, which I'm sure improvements are desperately needed.

The City of Greenville DOES have plans to widen Arlington Blvd to six lanes, I just don't know when they are going to do it.

If clogged traffic warrants an interchange, we'd see housing developments with interchanges onto county roads.
Like where at?
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tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #137 on: October 25, 2021, 08:40:57 PM »

Is the I-73 airport connector still in the plans??? These were planned 11 months ago and it still shows that the airport connector is in the studies. And when looking at it, I feel like it's gonna tie to the Winston-Salem Northern Beltway.

Map 1

Map 2

Source = https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/56c3aabd2bec4d5783b6483b06493d8e
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tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #138 on: March 16, 2022, 09:47:08 AM »

No tolls and there's no way they can upgrade NC 43 to a freeway on the existing alignment due to some development unless you want to displace all those businesses. And I don't see a toll highway going there, that's literally in the middle of nowhere and probably won't generate that much traffic, really.

Same for the Carolina bays parkway. Tolling it would be pointless as the bypass is the main reason of upgrading the existing highway.

If a project has a higher score does that mean it will come to the next STIP (one was skipped due to Covid)? I-95 widening in Johnston County is the most needed one and the part form I-74 to the SC state line is almost $400 million to add a third lane. DAMN that's a lot! If it's going to cost that much it's most likely a complete rebuild as opposed to widening existing bridges which will definitely drive down the cost.

https://ncdot.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?layers=8623ff32a0a249c79a106dfb12dc83b2
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wdcrft63

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #139 on: March 16, 2022, 06:19:15 PM »

No tolls and there's no way they can upgrade NC 43 to a freeway on the existing alignment due to some development unless you want to displace all those businesses. And I don't see a toll highway going there, that's literally in the middle of nowhere and probably won't generate that much traffic, really.

Same for the Carolina bays parkway. Tolling it would be pointless as the bypass is the main reason of upgrading the existing highway.

If a project has a higher score does that mean it will come to the next STIP (one was skipped due to Covid)? I-95 widening in Johnston County is the most needed one and the part form I-74 to the SC state line is almost $400 million to add a third lane. DAMN that's a lot! If it's going to cost that much it's most likely a complete rebuild as opposed to widening existing bridges which will definitely drive down the cost.

https://ncdot.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?layers=8623ff32a0a249c79a106dfb12dc83b2
Some links are needed here. Who thinks NC 43 should be a freeway? Or that the CBP should be a toll road?
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #140 on: March 16, 2022, 06:40:41 PM »

Why does this angry rant not include a soap box?
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kphoger

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #141 on: March 16, 2022, 07:19:00 PM »

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Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #142 on: March 16, 2022, 07:22:11 PM »

^^^

I feel like the above would heavily accentuate any angry rant.
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tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #143 on: March 16, 2022, 07:29:08 PM »

No tolls and there's no way they can upgrade NC 43 to a freeway on the existing alignment due to some development unless you want to displace all those businesses. And I don't see a toll highway going there, that's literally in the middle of nowhere and probably won't generate that much traffic, really.

Same for the Carolina bays parkway. Tolling it would be pointless as the bypass is the main reason of upgrading the existing highway.

If a project has a higher score does that mean it will come to the next STIP (one was skipped due to Covid)? I-95 widening in Johnston County is the most needed one and the part form I-74 to the SC state line is almost $400 million to add a third lane. DAMN that's a lot! If it's going to cost that much it's most likely a complete rebuild as opposed to widening existing bridges which will definitely drive down the cost.

https://ncdot.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?layers=8623ff32a0a249c79a106dfb12dc83b2
Some links are needed here. Who thinks NC 43 should be a freeway? Or that the CBP should be a toll road?
Included in that map I sent. Click on a purple like and it will tell you
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Mapmikey

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #144 on: March 16, 2022, 08:23:17 PM »

Only the southern half of NC 43 project is being considered for tolls.

The CBP has 2 lines, one toll and one not.  Their scores are slightly different.  The new Cape Fear Crossing below Wilmington also has two entries like this.

upgrading US 74 between I-26 and Shelby Bypass to interstate standard is a submittal on here as are most of the usual suspects for interstate upgrade in NC.

You would have to delve deeper into how NCDOT uses these scoring values to develop their STIP list.  Each state does it differently.  There could be weighting factors applied and it's a strict mathematical exercise.  Or they could be using the scores to develop a shorter list from which to choose. 

The bad news is that per their page on the 2024-33 STIP, there is almost no money available for projects not already on the current STIP.
https://www.ncdot.gov/initiatives-policies/Transportation/stip/development/Pages/default.aspx

Maybe that changes with the Omnibus bill signed into law this week which enables the big transportation package to actually spend its money.
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dlsterner

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #145 on: March 16, 2022, 08:28:44 PM »

No tolls and there's no way they can upgrade NC 43 to a freeway on the existing alignment due to some development unless you want to displace all those businesses. And I don't see a toll highway going there, that's literally in the middle of nowhere and probably won't generate that much traffic, really.

Same for the Carolina bays parkway. Tolling it would be pointless as the bypass is the main reason of upgrading the existing highway.

If a project has a higher score does that mean it will come to the next STIP (one was skipped due to Covid)? I-95 widening in Johnston County is the most needed one and the part form I-74 to the SC state line is almost $400 million to add a third lane. DAMN that's a lot! If it's going to cost that much it's most likely a complete rebuild as opposed to widening existing bridges which will definitely drive down the cost.

https://ncdot.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?layers=8623ff32a0a249c79a106dfb12dc83b2
Some links are needed here. Who thinks NC 43 should be a freeway? Or that the CBP should be a toll road?
Included in that map I sent. Click on a purple like and it will tell you
There are literally dozens if not hundreds of purple links on that map.  Are we supposed to click them all until we find the relevant one?

tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #146 on: March 16, 2022, 08:32:55 PM »

Maybe that changes with the Omnibus bill signed into law this week which enables the big transportation package to actually spend its money.
I didn't actually know its being signed this week? This is exciting!
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tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #147 on: March 16, 2022, 08:34:11 PM »

No tolls and there's no way they can upgrade NC 43 to a freeway on the existing alignment due to some development unless you want to displace all those businesses. And I don't see a toll highway going there, that's literally in the middle of nowhere and probably won't generate that much traffic, really.

Same for the Carolina bays parkway. Tolling it would be pointless as the bypass is the main reason of upgrading the existing highway.

If a project has a higher score does that mean it will come to the next STIP (one was skipped due to Covid)? I-95 widening in Johnston County is the most needed one and the part form I-74 to the SC state line is almost $400 million to add a third lane. DAMN that's a lot! If it's going to cost that much it's most likely a complete rebuild as opposed to widening existing bridges which will definitely drive down the cost.

https://ncdot.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?layers=8623ff32a0a249c79a106dfb12dc83b2
Some links are needed here. Who thinks NC 43 should be a freeway? Or that the CBP should be a toll road?
Included in that map I sent. Click on a purple like and it will tell you
There are literally dozens if not hundreds of purple links on that map.  Are we supposed to click them all until we find the relevant one?
Purple line. The CTP is just northwest of US-17 and the northern end of the US-17 bypass is just north of US-70.
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wdcrft63

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #148 on: March 16, 2022, 09:39:10 PM »

No tolls and there's no way they can upgrade NC 43 to a freeway on the existing alignment due to some development unless you want to displace all those businesses. And I don't see a toll highway going there, that's literally in the middle of nowhere and probably won't generate that much traffic, really.

Same for the Carolina bays parkway. Tolling it would be pointless as the bypass is the main reason of upgrading the existing highway.

If a project has a higher score does that mean it will come to the next STIP (one was skipped due to Covid)? I-95 widening in Johnston County is the most needed one and the part form I-74 to the SC state line is almost $400 million to add a third lane. DAMN that's a lot! If it's going to cost that much it's most likely a complete rebuild as opposed to widening existing bridges which will definitely drive down the cost.

https://ncdot.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?layers=8623ff32a0a249c79a106dfb12dc83b2
Some links are needed here. Who thinks NC 43 should be a freeway? Or that the CBP should be a toll road?
Included in that map I sent. Click on a purple like and it will tell you
There are literally dozens if not hundreds of purple links on that map.  Are we supposed to click them all until we find the relevant one?
Purple line. The CTP is just northwest of US-17 and the northern end of the US-17 bypass is just north of US-70.
Neither project is suitable for tolls and the turnpike authority is not considering either of them. No need for a rant, itís not going to happen.

The US 17 bypass would cross the Neuse at the location of the existing NC 43 bridge because any other crossing of the wetlands would generate lots of opposition (as it should, I think). This document is far from the last word on whether the freeway would upgrade all of the current NC 43 route thereafter or deviate from it; I donít think thatís decided.
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tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #149 on: March 16, 2022, 11:38:54 PM »

No tolls and there's no way they can upgrade NC 43 to a freeway on the existing alignment due to some development unless you want to displace all those businesses. And I don't see a toll highway going there, that's literally in the middle of nowhere and probably won't generate that much traffic, really.

Same for the Carolina bays parkway. Tolling it would be pointless as the bypass is the main reason of upgrading the existing highway.

If a project has a higher score does that mean it will come to the next STIP (one was skipped due to Covid)? I-95 widening in Johnston County is the most needed one and the part form I-74 to the SC state line is almost $400 million to add a third lane. DAMN that's a lot! If it's going to cost that much it's most likely a complete rebuild as opposed to widening existing bridges which will definitely drive down the cost.

https://ncdot.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?layers=8623ff32a0a249c79a106dfb12dc83b2
Some links are needed here. Who thinks NC 43 should be a freeway? Or that the CBP should be a toll road?
Included in that map I sent. Click on a purple like and it will tell you
There are literally dozens if not hundreds of purple links on that map.  Are we supposed to click them all until we find the relevant one?
Purple line. The CTP is just northwest of US-17 and the northern end of the US-17 bypass is just north of US-70.
Neither project is suitable for tolls and the turnpike authority is not considering either of them. No need for a rant, itís not going to happen.

The US 17 bypass would cross the Neuse at the location of the existing NC 43 bridge because any other crossing of the wetlands would generate lots of opposition (as it should, I think). This document is far from the last word on whether the freeway would upgrade all of the current NC 43 route thereafter or deviate from it; I donít think thatís decided.
Hope it doesn't fall like the Ahoskie bypass did. Yes, it does impact wetlands but look at the MLK parkway in Wilmington
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