I-80/94 between I-294 and I-65

[NWI_Irish96]

I live roughly 450ft from this segment of interstate (thank god for sound barriers--they're worth every penny). There are almost daily crashes on this segment, sometimes more than one per day. The vast majority of the crashes are semi vs car. I've figured out the primary reasons why and I'd like some group brainstorming on a solution.

Causes:
1. I don't know if/where such data exists, but there seems to be a higher volume of semi traffic, as a percentage of overall traffic, than any other interstate I've driven.
2. The posted speed limit is 55, but there is almost nonexistent traffic enforcement, so semis are mostly doing 60-70 and cars are doing 65+, but you have a percentage of cars that believe in going the speed limit, which leads to a lot of semis passing cars in addition to each other.
3. Distracted driving. A lot of crashes are where there is a significant slowdown and a driver doesn't notice it until too late.

Is there a fix for this that doesn't require acquiring more ROW?

[JoePCool14]

From my perspective, it's just kind of a shit piece of highway. Way too much traffic (both car and truck) for it to handle. The only real "fix" in my eyes is another highway constructed further south.

[froggie]

1. I don't know if/where such data exists, but there seems to be a higher volume of semi traffic, as a percentage of overall traffic, than any other interstate I've driven.

Mentioned last year in another thread.  Overall daily traffic is in the 160-200K range, while daily truck traffic is in the 35-45K range.  So the truck percentage is generally in the 20-25% range.  Not the highest (segments of I-65 KY and I-81 VA reach over 40%), but not exactly light either.

Is there a fix for this that doesn't require acquiring more ROW?

Short of drastically increasing enforcement (which is unlikely given the current political/social climate), doubtful.  They used up the vast majority of the available ROW when they did the (relatively) recent widening.

[I-39]

Does most of the truck traffic get off at I-65?

[NWI_Irish96]

Does most of the truck traffic get off at I-65?

Anytime I'm driving east on 80/94 it appears that at least half of the semi traffic is getting off on 65.

[sprjus4]

2. The posted speed limit is 55, but there is almost nonexistent traffic enforcement, so semis are mostly doing 60-70 and cars are doing 65+, but you have a percentage of cars that believe in going the speed limit, which leads to a lot of semis passing cars in addition to each other.

Unless there's a good amount of geometry, substandard ramps, etc. that would present hazards, it seems like the solution would be to increase the speed limit to 65 mph to at least bring the speed limit closer to reality, reducing the differential between those obeying the speed limit and those driving at a reasonable speed. If doing 55 mph in the right lane results in the majority of traffic weaving around you, cutting you off, etc, then the speed limit is almost dangerously posted low.

More enforcement could be an option, but it seems in this scenario the speed limit is pure artificial. Perhaps enhanced enforcement with a reasonable speed limit (e.g. 65 mph) to target and ticket the more severe offenders (reckless driving e.g. 85+ mph, tailgating, weaving in and out of lanes, etc.).

3. Distracted driving. A lot of crashes are where there is a significant slowdown and a driver doesn't notice it until too late.

Perhaps technology (VMS signage, etc.) on the road to alert users of slow traffic ahead, variable speed limits, etc. if it doesn't already exist.

[froggie]

Does most of the truck traffic get off at I-65?

Roughly half.

[3467]

There has been an unusual change in traffic pattern in the afternoon what is left at rush hour. The overall tollway  is now steady on truck volumes but only at 64% on cars. I know there is some construction but it's the only route I see regular daily backups from the 80 merge going into Indiana.
Most of the rest of the backups on the the other freeways and arterials  seem just to be accident related.
Wondered if anyone knew why . I suspect some people are working at home from their summer homes.
It will be interesting to see the long term effects of covid  and work at home.

[NWI_Irish96]

2. The posted speed limit is 55, but there is almost nonexistent traffic enforcement, so semis are mostly doing 60-70 and cars are doing 65+, but you have a percentage of cars that believe in going the speed limit, which leads to a lot of semis passing cars in addition to each other.

Unless there's a good amount of geometry, substandard ramps, etc. that would present hazards, it seems like the solution would be to increase the speed limit to 65 mph to at least bring the speed limit closer to reality, reducing the differential between those obeying the speed limit and those driving at a reasonable speed. If doing 55 mph in the right lane results in the majority of traffic weaving around you, cutting you off, etc, then the speed limit is almost dangerously posted low.

More enforcement could be an option, but it seems in this scenario the speed limit is pure artificial. Perhaps enhanced enforcement with a reasonable speed limit (e.g. 65 mph) to target and ticket the more severe offenders (reckless driving e.g. 85+ mph, tailgating, weaving in and out of lanes, etc.).

3. Distracted driving. A lot of crashes are where there is a significant slowdown and a driver doesn't notice it until too late.

Perhaps technology (VMS signage, etc.) on the road to alert users of slow traffic ahead, variable speed limits, etc. if it doesn't already exist.

I do think bumping the speed limit up to 65 would help, perhaps having a truck speed limit of 60. I also think that an increase in VMS signage would help.

[ilpt4u]

Is there a fix for this that doesn't require acquiring more ROW?

This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but there is more "freeway"  capacity on this basic corridor via the Skyway and Toll Road from the City to I-65

So how does one more effectively load balance the two? Congestion pricing tolls on 80/94 that make the Skyway/Toll Road worth paying the tolls on 90 instead of 80/94

Another option would be "free rides"  on 90 during peak times, but I don't see the Skyway or Toll Road owner going for that, unless they are getting payment from IDOT/INDOT to do it, as it allows the state agencies to NOT have to build another solution

[Flint1979]

If they would take the toll off the Skyway and improve that corridor then you would see a lot less traffic on the Borman than you do now. I think anyway that it's a lot of shunpikers using the Borman to avoid the toll on the Skyway. Or make the Borman just like the Dan Ryan from the Tri-State all the way to Lake Station.

[ilpt4u]

If they would take the toll off the Skyway and improve that corridor then you would see a lot less traffic on the Borman than you do now. I think anyway that it's a lot of shunpikers using the Borman to avoid the toll on the Skyway. Or make the Borman just like the Dan Ryan from the Tri-State all the way to Lake Station.

Yup. Either the Skyway/Toll Road needs to be price competitive with the Borman, either via waived tolls on 90 or via tolls placed on 80/94, or a Dan Ryan or NJ Turnpike Dual-Freeway style roadway needs built, which would typically mean more ROW, and without it, would be very expensive, building either Elevated or Underground Express Lanes. Like, expensive to the point it would probably make sense for IDOT and INDOT to pay the Skyway and Toll Road companies the toll money for "waived"  tolls at peak times to make 80/94 safer

[Flint1979]

If they would take the toll off the Skyway and improve that corridor then you would see a lot less traffic on the Borman than you do now. I think anyway that it's a lot of shunpikers using the Borman to avoid the toll on the Skyway. Or make the Borman just like the Dan Ryan from the Tri-State all the way to Lake Station.

Yup. Either the Skyway/Toll Road needs to be price competitive with the Borman, either via waived tolls on 90 or via tolls placed on 80/94, or a Dan Ryan or NJ Turnpike Dual-Freeway style roadway needs built, which would typically mean more ROW, and without it, would be very expensive, building either Elevated or Underground Express Lanes. Like, expensive to the point it would probably make sense for IDOT and INDOT to pay the Skyway and Toll Road companies the toll money for "waived"  tolls at peak times to make 80/94 safer

They have you so trapped on the Skyway to pay that toll too. I don't understand why there are any toll roads around Chicago anyway because it's in a part of the country where there generally aren't any toll roads other than the Indiana Toll Road and Ohio Turnpike. Chicago already has enough traffic problems and they just add to it by making you stop to pay a toll because not every car is going to have I-Pass. Like I-294 would be a great bypass of the city of Chicago if it wasn't a toll road. I'm to the point where I don't get why we should even have toll roads period in today's age.

[NWI_Irish96]

If they would take the toll off the Skyway and improve that corridor then you would see a lot less traffic on the Borman than you do now. I think anyway that it's a lot of shunpikers using the Borman to avoid the toll on the Skyway. Or make the Borman just like the Dan Ryan from the Tri-State all the way to Lake Station.

Yup. Either the Skyway/Toll Road needs to be price competitive with the Borman, either via waived tolls on 90 or via tolls placed on 80/94, or a Dan Ryan or NJ Turnpike Dual-Freeway style roadway needs built, which would typically mean more ROW, and without it, would be very expensive, building either Elevated or Underground Express Lanes. Like, expensive to the point it would probably make sense for IDOT and INDOT to pay the Skyway and Toll Road companies the toll money for "waived"  tolls at peak times to make 80/94 safer

They have you so trapped on the Skyway to pay that toll too. I don't understand why there are any toll roads around Chicago anyway because it's in a part of the country where there generally aren't any toll roads other than the Indiana Toll Road and Ohio Turnpike. Chicago already has enough traffic problems and they just add to it by making you stop to pay a toll because not every car is going to have I-Pass. Like I-294 would be a great bypass of the city of Chicago if it wasn't a toll road. I'm to the point where I don't get why we should even have toll roads period in today's age.

We have toll roads because people keep demanding lower and lower taxes, and roads are one thing for which the government can find a pay-per-use alternative.

[NWI_Irish96]

Is there a fix for this that doesn't require acquiring more ROW?

This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but there is more "freeway"  capacity on this basic corridor via the Skyway and Toll Road from the City to I-65

So how does one more effectively load balance the two? Congestion pricing tolls on 80/94 that make the Skyway/Toll Road worth paying the tolls on 90 instead of 80/94

Another option would be "free rides"  on 90 during peak times, but I don't see the Skyway or Toll Road owner going for that, unless they are getting payment from IDOT/INDOT to do it, as it allows the state agencies to NOT have to build another solution

I don't know enough about the trucking industry to know the answer to this question, but is there some level of congestion pricing on 80/94 that would shift a noticeable percentage of the truck traffic to off-peak times?  If so, then it's worth considering.

[ilpt4u]

I don't know enough about the trucking industry to know the answer to this question, but is there some level of congestion pricing on 80/94 that would shift a noticeable percentage of the truck traffic to off-peak times?  If so, then it's worth considering.

I'm not an expert on road pricing affecting travel conditions, but I assume a tolling study would need done to see what different toll rates and toll periods would do to the Borman at peak and off-peak times

That said, tolls obviously affect travel plans, otherwise there would not be the traffic dispartity that we see today between the Borman and the Skyway/Toll Road

[NWI_Irish96]

I don't know enough about the trucking industry to know the answer to this question, but is there some level of congestion pricing on 80/94 that would shift a noticeable percentage of the truck traffic to off-peak times?  If so, then it's worth considering.

I'm not an expert on road pricing affecting travel conditions, but I assume a tolling study would need done to see what different toll rates and toll periods would do to the Borman at peak and off-peak times

That said, tolls obviously affect travel plans, otherwise there would not be the traffic dispartity that we see today between the Borman and the Skyway/Toll Road

Yes, obviously tolls (especially as high as the Skyway) vs no tolls on two different roads is going to affect what road people travel on, but what I'd like to know is will tolls vs no tolls on the same road at different times going to affect when people travel.

[ilpt4u]

Precisely why a Tolling Study would need to be commissioned, if INDOT and/or IDOT wanted to seriously consider Congestion Pricing for 80/94

[hobsini2]

From my perspective, it's just kind of a shit piece of highway. Way too much traffic (both car and truck) for it to handle. The only real "fix" in my eyes is another highway constructed further south.

Illiana Tollway *cough*
And make it right. not just I-55 to I-65. That's a nice start but it should also connect to I-80 in the west near Morris and I-94 near Michigan City. And don't sell the rights to a private firm like the ITR. That's one of the reasons why we can't have that southern bypass or US 30 being a freeway across Indiana.

[JREwing78]

Illiana Tollway *cough*
And make it right. not just I-55 to I-65. That's a nice start but it should also connect to I-80 in the west near Morris and I-94 near Michigan City. And don't sell the rights to a private firm like the ITR. That's one of the reasons why we can't have that southern bypass or US 30 being a freeway across Indiana.

Even a I-80 (west of Joliet) to I-65 connection would do a lot to load-balance incoming truck traffic, as long as you also had connections to I-355, I-57, I-55, and IL-394. They would need to keep pricing reasonable to encourage truck traffic to take it (or, alternatively, convert I-80/94 to a toll highway).

Currently, it costs about the same for me to follow the Indiana Toll Road and Chicago Skyway through Chicago as it does to take the Tri-State Tollway around it. So, as long as traffic isn't snarled through downtown, I'll take the Toll Road. That's of limited usefulness during rush hour periods, though.

If INDOT/IDOT enacted tolling in any significant manner on I-80/94, however, that would encourage through traffic to divert to the Skyway and into downtown, which does NOT need any more traffic. There's no feasible way to build a road north of I-80/94 that could split off through traffic - either take an enormous amount of property or do a Big Dig style tunnel.

The Illiana Tollway is going to be the most feasible relief option, if INDOT and ISTHA could figure out a way to do it that doesn't hemorrhage money.

[ilpt4u]

The issue with connecting I-355 to a potential Illiana, is there is no protected N-S corridor south of I-80 for another southern extension. That area of Will County grew up quite a bit in the 2000s and 2010s, so there is not nearly as much available land as there used to be

At one point there was a proposal to run 355 south to I-57 near the proposed Peotone airport and even to I-65. If memory serves, it did involve a short 80 Multiplex or 355-80 dual roadway section (similar to 355/88 or 290/294) west of the existing 355 termination, to exit south closer to the US 30/New Lenox exit. I think that plan morphed into the Illiana plan, when it became harder and harder to build a new Freeway/Tollway N-S between 80 and 57, but a more E-W route is still in the realm of possibilities

Straying into Fictional territory now:

Looking at the Google Satellite map, it *might* be possible to squeeze it in near Gougar Rd and I-80. Key word is *might*. Looks like a close subdivision, a warehouse, and a church but otherwise many developable lots heading in the SE direction. The jog to the west on I-80 is a bit out of the way, but that section is also partially N-S, so its not a horrible out of the way jog

Whether it would be worth it, when it is not that far out of the way to use 57 to 80 to 355 is debatable. With an Illiana, 57 would need increased capacity improvements between the Illiana/Peotone and at least I-80, if not to I-294

In some ways, this whole thread could really be moved to "Fictional" unless IDOT/INDOT/ISTHA have any plans or proposals to actually try to improve the 80/94 situation, either with improvements on 80/94 or any other corridors, existing or new

[02 Park Ave]

Strict enforcement of the truck prohibition from the (two) left lane(s) would improve safety on the road.

[3467]

The only two expressway tollway proposals that exist in the CMAP plan are a crosstown and the Illiana. The Tollway gave  up on a 355 connection a long time ago. Indiana said only to 65 . The dropped it totally Illinois left it a distant possibility.

Once again the only major back up wasn't in Indiana it was on the eastbound Tri State portion.

[edwaleni]

As for the original question of accidents in that stretch of highway, its an issue of geography more or less.

Lake Michigan forces a few east-west highways to converge, exchange traffic and then diverge again. And because of the location of Chicago, several north-south routes converge as well.

On the face of it and not looking strictly at metrics, its a somewhat unique situation.

The convergence of so many routes exchanging traffic, along with so many full interchanges, any traffic issue on *any* of the converging routes will always create a condition in the one place where they share a common path.

One possible solution is to "pre-sort" your traffic so they don't all share lanes as part of a convergence. This cuts down on lane changes and helps abate sudden stops due to an accident on either the main path or one of its feeders.

This would not be cheap however. 

It would mean pre-sorting traffic going west for the Bishop Ford and Tri-State as far back as Indiana, which may not be practical, especially for traffic coming on and off at Calumet Ave (Indiana) and Torrence (Illinois).

Pre-sort traffic going east where 294 and 80 merge and decide there which east bound route they want. 90, 94 or 80.

Planners have wanted to help trans-con traffic (read: trucks) avoid this convergence by building more capacity to the south (Illiana) but this has not been approved.  And many believe that transcons would rather take their chances on the Kingery then be forced to drive some 30-40 miles out of the way just to reach I-80 near Morris.

Indiana planners have been historically loathe to provide additional east-west capacity as far back as Elkhart because it would promote shunpiking of the Indiana Toll Road.  Now that Indiana has "shun the turnpike" themselves, perhaps they would be more willing to increase capacity using the US-20/US-31 bypass. The fact they never built any capacity between this route and I-90 east of the South Bend/Elkhart metro is a perfect example.

With Kingsbury, Indiana becoming a major perishables hub for Chicago now, I would think new capacity that takes traffic out of the convergence zone starting east of Elkhart would soften the additional miles to reach I-80 in Morris.

[Revive 755]

This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but there is more "freeway"  capacity on this basic corridor via the Skyway and Toll Road from the City to I-65

The Skyway is not a viable option for those coming the western suburbs such as Naperville and Wheaton.  Certainly not after all the time lost just trying to get to the Dan Ryan via an overloaded I-290.

There needs to be another east-west option.  Trying to funnel traffic through on I-80 and the Borman is not working.  It is certainly not going to work well if the quarry section of the Tri-State fails or another type of catastrophe occurs that results in a long-term shutdown.  Ideally build the Illiana, but at least get a higher type arterial similar to IL 83 north of Oakbrook that doens't have any slow stretches through a business district (such as those on US 231 and IN 2).