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South Carolina

Started by wriddle082, January 30, 2011, 07:53:11 PM

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Alex

Quote from: Tom958 on January 05, 2013, 08:58:33 PM
I've been driving from my home near Atlanta to Charleston to work every week since November. I've composed a textwall of a trip report about it in my head-- maybe I'll post it someday. I will say, though: My opinion of SC highways has improved as a result of my travels. :)

One comment: After trying a variety of routes, my compadres and I have concluded that the best route between teh ATL and Charleston is 20/26, but connecting between them via US 1 in Columbia. The shorter distance outweighs the slower speeds on US 1, the shortcut avoids surprisingly frequent congestion at Malfunction Junction, and there's good C store with cheap gas at US 11 and I-20.

And a question: I've yet to see a single Clearview sign anywhere I've been down here. Is SC's dalliance with Clearview over?

The use of Clearview seems to be confined to I-95 in southern part of the state and the I-85 corridor thus far. I recently was on the entire length of I-20 in both directions and did not note a single sign in the font. I also spent a lot of time in Columbia in 2012 and noted no Clearview on the other Interstates, the SC 277 freeway, or any of the surface routes.


wriddle082

#51
Quote from: Alex on January 06, 2013, 11:08:37 AM
Quote from: Tom958 on January 05, 2013, 08:58:33 PM
I've been driving from my home near Atlanta to Charleston to work every week since November. I've composed a textwall of a trip report about it in my head-- maybe I'll post it someday. I will say, though: My opinion of SC highways has improved as a result of my travels. :)

One comment: After trying a variety of routes, my compadres and I have concluded that the best route between teh ATL and Charleston is 20/26, but connecting between them via US 1 in Columbia. The shorter distance outweighs the slower speeds on US 1, the shortcut avoids surprisingly frequent congestion at Malfunction Junction, and there's good C store with cheap gas at US 11 and I-20.

And a question: I've yet to see a single Clearview sign anywhere I've been down here. Is SC's dalliance with Clearview over?

The use of Clearview seems to be confined to I-95 in southern part of the state and the I-85 corridor thus far. I recently was on the entire length of I-20 in both directions and did not note a single sign in the font. I also spent a lot of time in Columbia in 2012 and noted no Clearview on the other Interstates, the SC 277 freeway, or any of the surface routes.

I have also noticed new Clearview signs on the portion of I-385 in the Greenville/Mauldin area that's currently being widened to six lanes (and appears to be nearly finished as of the time of this post edit).  And the I-85 corridor Clearview also includes Business 85 in Spartanburg.

And I agree about US 1 being the best way to connect from 20 to 26, except during rush hours, when 1 can be a bit sluggish.  But if they ever finish the John Hardee Freeway to connect the airport to I-20 and I-26, that will probably become the connection of choice.

Tom958

Ah, Business 85 in Spartanburg! It's one of my favorite roads. Why? Because I've been travelling that corridor for fifty years, and taking the ramp to Business 85 in Spartanburg is like going back in time. Other than the Clearview signs, cable rail in the median and some other details, it's pretty much the same as it was in the '60's-- and there's no traffic!  :clap: Within a couple of miles it has a roundabout interchange built not too long after the Brits invented them and an Arkansas-style service interchange where the crossroad bridges both the freeway and its frontage roads (I thought there used to be more of them, but according to my old official SC map I'm mistaken).

Weirdly, I always take Business 85 northbound and new 85 southbound.

Alex


cpzilliacus

Quote from: Alex on February 06, 2013, 01:43:20 PM
Push for S.C. interstate [73] hits a roadblock

Wonder if this would work as a toll road. 

It might, if higher tolls were charged during periods of high(er) demand. 

I know that Va. 168 (Chesapeake Expressway) charges higher tolls on what they call "peak weekends."
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Tom958

I have a little story to tell:

Last year, my daughter's car tore up. She's going to school in Greensboro NC, and she needs a car to work and to visit her family, so I bought her a newish Scion tC and drove it up meet her in Charlotte to bring her home for Thanksgiving.

On her way home for Christmas on a drippy, drizzly day, on I-85 near Gaffney SC, her car started fishtailing, then spinning, then went into the narrow (36 foot) median. Fortunately, there was a cable barrier there. Unfortunately, the posts pulled right out of the soggy ground, and the car nosed under the barrier and came to rest with about two feet sticking into the northbound lanes. Two seconds later, an 18 wheeler hit her car.

Now, normally being hit by an 18 wheeler is a Bad Thing, but in this case it was almost lucky: Had a car hit her, it probably would've gone out of control and set off mayhem in the northbound lanes. But the truck knocked her neatly back into the median and slowed safely to a stop. Incredibly, my daughter was completely uninjured-- she didn't even have the next-day aches that often result from being jostled around like that.

Of course I wanted to run to her side, but practicality took the upper hand-- her boyfriend was visiting his parents in Charlotte, so he drove down and brought her there for the night, and we met halfway (outside Greenville) the next day. On the way down, her bf kept saying, "Is that where it happened?" after noticing several other places where the cable rail posts had been ripped out of the ground by impacts.

Why am I telling you this? Well, it's been obvious that I-85 in SC needs work-- not only could it use widening to six lanes, but it's also old and in poor condition, being one of the oldest sections of Interstate in SC. Indeed, several of the bridges carrying I-85 have been widened since 2000 or so, with the outside shoulders and guardrails added/replaced and the median decked over and a central Jersey barrier added. With SC's current funding troubles, I suppose that six laning is off the agenda for now, but I'm still grateful and impressed that SC went to the effort to add a cable median barrier even though they surely intend to add a Jersey barrier in the not-too-distant future. Even though it didn't perform properly, it almost surely saved my daughter's life. Points to SC for that.  :clap:

My own state of Georgia uses a variety of cable rail designs, but the more recent ones include a continuous concrete footing, which makes it extremely unlikely that the posts will pull out of the ground. Maybe that should become standard equipment.

J N Winkler

Quote from: Alex on January 06, 2013, 11:08:37 AMThe use of Clearview seems to be confined to I-95 in southern part of the state and the I-85 corridor thus far. I recently was on the entire length of I-20 in both directions and did not note a single sign in the font. I also spent a lot of time in Columbia in 2012 and noted no Clearview on the other Interstates, the SC 277 freeway, or any of the surface routes.

I know I'm coming to this discussion rather late, but a couple of weeks ago I just filed a year's worth of signing plan extracts for SCDOT projects, and can promise you all that they are still using Clearview.  SCDOT let one sign replacement contract in the last year, on I-26 (Exits 52-97), and the sign panel detail sheets show Clearview.  There were, however, just three projects with pattern-accurate signing for the whole year.  My guess is that with its ongoing funding problems, SCDOT is focusing on bridge replacements and resurfacing at the expense of signing.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

cpzilliacus

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

jcarte29

Any word on I-73 in SC?
Interstates I've driven on (Complete and/or partial, no particular order)
------------------
40, 85, 95, 77, 277(NC), 485(NC), 440(NC), 540(NC), 795(NC), 140(NC), 73, 74, 840(NC), 26, 20, 75, 285(GA), 81, 64, 71, 275(OH), 465(IN), 65, 264(VA), 240(NC), 295(VA), 526(SC), 985(GA), 395(FL), 195(FL)

WashuOtaku

Hello all,
I am trying to do some research as to how the U.S. and State signs appeared from long ago.  I know that the U.S. Highway signs were mostly cut-outs with "S. Carolina" written on top and was from the 1927-1960 time frame, more modern version came out in 1961.  But how were the Business and Alternate routes labeled on those signs?  Also, when did the SC Highway signs transition from the state outline (1920s) to the S.C. box signs? 

Thank you in advance.  :sombrero:

Mapmikey

Bannered routes have been around in SC back to at least the 1940s.

This sign was in Fort Mill into the mid-1980s (from aa gallery)
www.aaroads.com/shields/show.php?image=SC19500211

I also saw a US 501 Business cutout like that in Conway in the late 1980s.

'Alternate' banners existed early on, using tiny-sized banners that probably fit perfectly over the smaller shields used in the past - think the size of banners on Virginia cutout postings.  I am not aware of any pictures online but saw one on US 221 ALT in Chesnee in 1989 and another on SC 41 ALT near its north end.

I do not know an exact date of switching from shield-shaped state routes to the first version of SC box shields, but they were pretty much all gone by 1970.  Pictures I've seen of the early box version from the late 1960s show them already looking pretty old so my guess is the mid-1950s or so the started showing up.  White border US shields were used initially, starting in the 1950s as well.  A couple dozen US cutout shields made it to the late 1980s, mostly in Spartanburg County.  One set in Greenwood made it to the 2000s - www.aaroads.com/shields/show.php?image=SC19500251

The 1949 Official shows the route shields in use at the time (cutouts and state shapes) with banners on top


WashuOtaku

For the bannered, I was interested how it was signed with the old layout, so that example of Fort Mill is what I was looking for.  But since I haven't found an old version of an Alternate route, I was concern if they used the same method North Carolina used by adding an "A" after the number... I'm starting to believe not the case.  Of course I know what they use now, which is "ALT" and older signs with black background used "Alternate."  So maybe they used "Alternate" on the cutouts as well.

For the state highway signs, I have seen pictures as early as 1961 using the square; so yea, I'm guessing somewhere in the 1950s too, wish I knew more exact.

Using all this information to correctly display signs on Wikipedia.  Here's my current work on US Highway list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._Highways_in_South_Carolina

Yes Mapmikey, I've been using your old SC site for a lot of the refs.  :spin:

Mapmikey

It is extremely unlikely SC used the 'A' designation.  Official County Maps from the 1930s show numerous ALT routes, designated on the map as "Alt. xx" inside the shape-shield (which they continue to use on current county maps).

There is a photo archive of old SCDOT photos, but exceedingly few route shields.  But here is one from 1957 showing ALT and Alternate in use at US 123 in Easley

.

The link to the index is http://web.archive.org/web/19980625054841/http://www.dot.state.sc.us/RoadDesign/frhistory.htm


I would characterize my SC site as generally accurate.  There are next to no SC highway fans to my knowledge, so updating it takes a back seat to Virginia and N. Carolina.  But I do have dozens of new routes to add from county map collections I've seen over last few years.  There has even been a second SC 50...

Mapmikey

agentsteel53

Quote from: Mapmikey on June 25, 2013, 12:52:23 PM
It is extremely unlikely SC used the 'A' designation.  Official County Maps from the 1930s show numerous ALT routes, designated on the map as "Alt. xx" inside the shape-shield (which they continue to use on current county maps).

I have seen an embossed shield which said S.CAROLINA/US 15A
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

WashuOtaku

Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 25, 2013, 01:07:30 PM
I have seen an embossed shield which said S.CAROLINA/US 15A

Oh, I hope it exists somewhere on the Internets.

Mapmikey

Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 25, 2013, 01:07:30 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on June 25, 2013, 12:52:23 PM
It is extremely unlikely SC used the 'A' designation.  Official County Maps from the 1930s show numerous ALT routes, designated on the map as "Alt. xx" inside the shape-shield (which they continue to use on current county maps).



I have seen an embossed shield which said S.CAROLINA/US 15A

Now I get to be even more wrong...apparently some SC 41 ALT postings are 41A shields.

There were definitely zero A shields in SC during the 1980s-90s.

http://goo.gl/maps/VGQuN

Mapmikey

Avalanchez71

Quote from: bugo on April 05, 2012, 12:37:48 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 25, 2011, 05:19:22 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on July 20, 2011, 11:26:28 PMI noticed that too, they are gone.  I had been meaning to look back at news reports to confirm that Ridgeland had the cameras done away with (before they did away with Ridgeland), but haven't had a chance to do that.

I will still never stop at any Ridgeland exit for motorist services, on principal.  Whenever I go through that area (these days it's at least two round trips per month), I make sure to get my gas in Hardeeville, or closer to my home along I-26 where it's a lot cheaper.

I hadn't seen the news reports about them being gone before I drove through there, so I just slowed down to the speed limit in order to play it safe, and then after we got home I did a search and found that they were gone. But in a town that pulls a stunt like that I figure that they're still going to be out of control in trying to write tickets, and I guessed right!

I agree with you regarding not stopping there. Our trip earlier this month was the first time I had driven through there since 1991, and my gas gauge was starting to get low and my wife was getting hungry, but I said I would not stop in a chickenshit town like that and she understood my point.

I think it should be illegal for local pigs to patrol major highways.  If it's a surface street that goes through town that's one thing, but if it's a freeway or an expressway that doesn't even go through the town itself then the local cops shouldn't be allowed to patrol it or even to drive on it.
Why is that?  Having said that there are limitations in certain states.  In Tennessee if a town has less than 10,000 population then the town needs to ask permission from the Commissioner of Safety to do so.  The interesting thing is that in that same county an elected constable can win with just one vote and then patrol the same said highway with his own vehicle and then he may earn fees off of tickets he issues.

WashuOtaku

In sad news, let us mark the passing of US 21 Business in Rock Hill.  In a report by AASHTO on May 3rd, a request by SCDOT to eliminate the business route was approved.   :-|

In the original request, the reason was because Rock Hill wanted control of the roadway through its downtown area, creating a gap; since business loops don't work that way they decided to kill the whole thing.   :ded:

Request (page 301): http://route.transportation.org/Documents/Binder-all%20applications%20May%202013.pdf
Approval (page 8): http://route.transportation.org/Documents/Report%20to%20SCOH%20from%20USRN%20SM2013%20May%203.pdf

Mapmikey

I'm curious as to what they will do with SC 5 which follows 21 Business through the part that will be eliminated from the state highway system...

Mapmikey

PColumbus73

Regarding the I-20/26 interchange in Columbia, when I drove from Myrtle Beach to Greenville, I used the interchange. However, driving from Greenville to Myrtle Beach, I started taking I-26 East to I-77 North. Even though it adds a few miles to the trip, the stress of trying to fight your way onto I-20 from 26 validates looping around Columbia.

Meanwhile, here in Myrtle Beach, costruction on the Backgate Interchange is going fairly well. Not too long ago, a car crashed into the temporary traffic signals.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/07/16/3586989/traffic-delays-expected-at-myrtle.html

I haven't heard anything about the SC 31 extention to 707 yet.

froggie

When did SCDOT drop the speed limit on I-95 through Florence to 60 MPH?  Thought I remembered it being higher.

1995hoo

Quote from: froggie on October 23, 2013, 04:03:53 PM
When did SCDOT drop the speed limit on I-95 through Florence to 60 MPH?  Thought I remembered it being higher.

I'm pretty sure I remember it being 65 mph on our most recent trip through there in late June or early July 2012 (the weekend immediately after the derecho hit the DC area). We didn't go through there on our last trip south (last Christmas) as I opted for a route further west.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Thing 342

It was definitely 60 when I went through there on my way to Columbia in July 2013, so it changed sometime before then.

DeaconG

Quote from: froggie on October 23, 2013, 04:03:53 PM
When did SCDOT drop the speed limit on I-95 through Florence to 60 MPH?  Thought I remembered it being higher.

Which also happens to be the only six-laned section of I-95 in the state. Brilliant.
Dawnstar: "You're an ape! And you can talk!"
King Solovar: "And you're a human with wings! Reality holds surprises for everyone!"
-Crisis On Infinite Earths #2

PColumbus73

The speed limit on I-95 drops to 60 MPH between Exit 164 and 160 and then resumes to 70 afterward, I have no idea why, makes no sense to me.



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