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Max's Pacific Southwest Roads

Started by Max Rockatansky, August 19, 2016, 11:14:43 PM

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Max Rockatansky

I figured that I would just start a catch all thread in each region I travel in so I can just dump stuff in this thread rather than creating others....

Anyways, this weekend I'm traveling from my Father In-Law's house in Fresno via route of; Lake Tahoe, Virginia City, and maybe just maybe Sherman Pass....I say maybe for a reason.

So this fine day started out with the slog on CA 99.  Thankfully it's not as bad as coming from Bakersfield and things really cleared up past CA 152:



I don't know why but I always seem to encounter left lane bandits on 99 and it drives me up the wall, today was no exception.  Regardless I was done with 99 by Merced and made my way through the city on CA 140/59 before cutting north on CA 59 towards Snelling.  I was able to clear the school buses somehow before they started all stopping at the railroad tracks:




Of course as most of us Californian Road Geeks are fully aware CA 59 becomes J59 north of Snelling.  My understanding is that the terminus of CA 59 has something to do with the implied path that would have connected the segments of CA 65.  Regardless J59 is a quality route and I took it all the way to to CA 108/120 but I made a quick side stop trip on CA 132 to La Grange to check out the Old La Grange Bridge.  Now I haven't done my research on J59 as through as I would like but it sure looks like the Old La Grange Bridge and Old La Grange Road are the original J59?  Regardless it's a really cool steel truss bridge over the Tuolumme River:







At the northern terminus I took CA 108/120 north to Obyrnes Ferry Road/E15 to Copperopolis.  I'm always pretty damn impressed how well the truckers make it down E15 and the Tulloch Reservoir.  There was some rock trucks in a convoy today and they were flying through the entire route....either stupid or really impressive.  Regardless I stopped in Old Copperopolis to take in some old mining era buildings.  Copperopolis was one of the few copper towns during the Gold Rush era, the only other I recall off hand that was notable was Telegraph City.  Either way it's weird how full on yuppie the modern town has become and really how far it is from the old downtown:






Coming out of Copperopolis I took CA 4 to Pool Station Road...mostly because I was curious to what was on it....apparently a tailing pond.  I took CA 49 north to Jackson where I got some gas for the car...which will be notable later...and cut east on CA 88 to Carson Pass...I did pass through Volcano before getting little too far up the pass:






Having driven 88 a couple times it's pretty obvious to me why this was the preferred route during the gold rush.  88 is pretty much a placid gradual climb up the Sierras and never really has the crazy high grades that CA 108/Sonora Pass and CA 4/Ebbetts Pass do.  There was some nice scenic overlooks amid some of the inactive construction near Carson Pass:




The reason I mentioned gas that I got in Jackson was due to the fact that somewhere around Carson Pass I noticed a solid check engine light.  Usually something solid means an OBII Sensor trip or bad gas, the only reason I looked is because I felt the knock coming down hill.  I should note that my wife is with me on this trip since it involved Reno and gambling.  I didn't think much of the light and didn't mention it to her until South Lake Tahoe.  Either way there was a big construction wriggamoral around CA 89 where I cut north.  There was also some big huge thing that CHP was doing west of me that had the flagman delayed for about 20 minutes:




US 50 around Lake Tahoe....just plain sucks.  I've never once gone through the area where it was an easy drive, even in the off season.  There was heavy construction on the Nevada side at Cave Rock Tunnel.  Interestingly enough there is a big ass Agriculture Inspection Station sign on the California side...I completely forgot they actually check even on US 50...what a waste of money to stop non-commercial traffic.  I did stop on a vista to get a decent panoramic of the tunnel and lake.  The wife was freaking out about the check engine light since I made a surprise stop for 89 Octane gas...didn't clear the light on the first drive cycle:







I ended up following NV 28 up to NV 431 which of course is the Mount Rose Highway.    For some reason highway patrol was out in full force on NV 28, I think that I saw half a dozen troopers....worst part was that I had a "safety fiend" driving a Volvo in front of me.  The pollution level today really obstructed the views of Tahoe and Reno on NV 431.  The good news was that on my third drive cycle the 89 octane cleared out the check engine light.  If I recall correctly NV 431 was NV 27 from 1941 to 1976 and still is the highest all-year Sierra Pass at 8,911 feet at Mount Rose Summit.  Really smooth road though, the grade is really gradual for something that gains and loses elevation so quickly:








I don't gamble...I think it's a waste of money and we changed plans from Lassen Peak so the wife could go do her thing.  So that being the case I insisted on the Geiger Grade/NV 341 which of course leads to Virginia City.  For some reason 341 was filled with a crap ton of Storrey County Sheriffs today, I haven't ever seen then anywhere but the station before today.  The great thing about mining towns like Virginia City asides from the old buildings and infrastructure is the ice cream....they ALWAYS have ice cream.  I took NV 342 as a quick pass through Gold Hill and Silver City to check out some more mines, it was the only time that I had to use some engine braking.  It's amusing to think of pre-war cars and stage wagons trying to make it uphill along what is now 342 when it hits the 15% grade just north of Gold Hill.  After rejoining NV 341 I took US 50 to US 395/I-580 and Reno....surprisingly I have now clinched I-580:











And really that's it for today for road observations.  Currently having a beer and watching the Breakfast Club, it will be an early night since some notables like US 395, CA 270, and CA 203 are tomorrow. 



roadfro

Thanks for sharing your journey!

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2016, 11:14:43 PM
US 50 around Lake Tahoe....just plain sucks.  I've never once gone through the area where it was an easy drive, even in the off season.  There was heavy construction on the Nevada side at Cave Rock Tunnel.  Interestingly enough there is a big ass Agriculture Inspection Station sign on the California side...I completely forgot they actually check even on US 50...what a waste of money to stop non-commercial traffic.  I did stop on a vista to get a decent panoramic of the tunnel and lake.  The wife was freaking out about the check engine light since I made a surprise stop for 89 Octane gas...didn't clear the light on the first drive cycle:

There is a project proposed to reroute or otherwise mitigate some of the congestion issues on US 50 at Stateline/South Lake Tahoe. It's been discussed in this thread.

The project at Cave Rock is primarily to build a rock fall shelter over the westbound lanes in front of the existing (original) tunnel–this project was prompted by a large rock fall in February 2015. They're also making safety and aesthetic improvements to both tunnels (installing lighting, bike/ice warning systems, etc.) and doing drainage improvements in the vicinity.

Quote
I ended up following NV 28 up to NV 431 which of course is the Mount Rose Highway. For some reason highway patrol was out in full force on NV 28, I think that I saw half a dozen troopers....worst part was that I had a "safety fiend" driving a Volvo in front of me.  The pollution level today really obstructed the views of Tahoe and Reno on NV 431.  The good news was that on my third drive cycle the 89 octane cleared out the check engine light.  If I recall correctly NV 431 was NV 27 from 1941 to 1976 and still is the highest all-year Sierra Pass at 8,911 feet at Mount Rose Summit.  Really smooth road though, the grade is really gradual for something that gains and loses elevation so quickly:

You are correct in your recollections.

Quote
I don't gamble...I think it's a waste of money and we changed plans from Lassen Peak so the wife could go do her thing.  So that being the case I insisted on the Geiger Grade/NV 341 which of course leads to Virginia City.  For some reason 341 was filled with a crap ton of Storrey County Sheriffs today, I haven't ever seen then anywhere but the station before today.  The great thing about mining towns like Virginia City asides from the old buildings and infrastructure is the ice cream....they ALWAYS have ice cream.  I took NV 342 as a quick pass through Gold Hill and Silver City to check out some more mines, it was the only time that I had to use some engine braking.  It's amusing to think of pre-war cars and stage wagons trying to make it uphill along what is now 342 when it hits the 15% grade just north of Gold Hill.  After rejoining NV 341 I took US 50 to US 395/I-580 and Reno....surprisingly I have now clinched I-580:

I'd like to imagine what it was like for old trucks to drive on what's now 342, before the "truck route" bypass part of what's now 341 was built in the late 1930's.

PS: We Nevadans would appreciate if you'd change your tune on gambling...please convey our thanks to your wife for supporting our economy  ;-)
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

myosh_tino

Quote from: roadfro on August 20, 2016, 11:56:57 AM
PS: We Nevadans would appreciate if you'd change your tune on gambling...please convey our thanks to your wife for supporting our economy  ;-)

As someone who makes at least two trips per year to Nevada, the above underlined statement makes me want to...  :rofl:

Nice one roadfro... nice one!
Quote from: golden eagle
If I owned a dam and decided to donate it to charity, would I be giving a dam? I'm sure that might be a first because no one really gives a dam.

sparker

#3
Totally agree with you about Carson Pass/CA 88.  Always my preferred route across the Sierras; beats the slog along US 50 by a mile!  However, it seems in recent years that others besides myself (and you, of course) have discovered this route; every time I use it (got a bunch of friends in the Gardnerville/Minden area) there seems to be more and more traffic volume -- and proportionally more idiots!  I fully expect to hear a traffic report about a multi-vehicle blockage of the road in the near future (grit your teeth -- Ebbets, here I come!. :wow:)

Max Rockatansky

Alright today's update....kind of a rough one but not because of the car at least.

Started the day with something simple, a side trip over to Genoa to see the first settled town in Nevada.  Basically you just jump off US 395 over on NV 206.  Apparently Genoa dates back to the Utah Territory days and was founded in 1851 and apparently was the Nevada Territorial Capital for one year in 1861.  Genoa was a stop on the California Trail during the Gold Rush and apparently was a major stopping point before the Sierras.

Regardless before I get too far off track, okay where the hell does US 395/50 actually run in Carson City?  US 395 obviously follows the I-580 freeway and it appears US 50 jumps off Williams onto I-580 as well.  However with all that said there was TO US 50/395 reassurance signage on I-580 south of Williams which became regular good old US 50/US 395 on Fairview when the freeway ended.  I'm assuming the "TO" is a mistake or something that has to do with the temporary route on Fairview which will be corrected once the I-580 freeway is finished.  For now though I've actually personally clinched all that is built of I-580 along with US 395 from the Oregon State line all the way through California, Nevada, and then California down to I-15.






I think that freaked out the Agriculture Inspection guy at US 395/Topaz Lake entering California.  Before he had to chance to say anything I said "negative fruits and veggies ghost rider" and he didn't know how to respond to that.  :rolleyes:  You'd think with the Marine Corp Station just to the south and on CA 108/Sonora Pass the guy would have gotten the joke...guess not.  Anyways US 395....why the hell do so many people think an Interstate improvement is needed up there in the mountains?...really?  The road is adequate as is and freaking beautiful even after it blows out to an expressway south of Lee Vining:



So with all I just said....the real highlight of the day was Bodie.  I got up to the town a couple minutes before 9 AM and was able to drive right in as one of the first couple people.  I did find a nice relic ACSC sign from nearby Cottonwood Canyon in a barn which I thought was pretty cool.  I was able to get some nice pano shots of Bodie before there was too many people mucking things up which made me happy.  There was some neat car bodies that hadn't found before out in the weeds that I grabbed some pictures of.

As for Bodie Road, CA 270, and NV 3C I was able to draw some interesting observations or just find out some information that I was looking for.  First off....why the hell does CA 270 stop three miles from the State Park entrance?  It always seemed like that most of the California state parks at least had a highway run right up to the boundary.  I'm assuming that it has something to do with the whole ambiance of getting to Bodie...but since that three miles where 270 ends technically isn't State Park or Caltrans held land doesn't basically make accessible to the general public regardless?  I mean hell there is just a sign at the gate to Bodie basically just asking "pretty please don't go in before 9 AM."  The current agreement between Caltrans and the State Parks for the 3 something miles of dirt dates back to 1983 according to cahighways.  Apparently LRN 270 popped up on Bodie Road back in 1959 so it's one of the late to the party routes.  Either way the start 270 sign is weird, it doesn't have "California" in the spade.  The State Park actually had a grading machine on site but I took pictures of the dirt section to show how wonky it really is....smooth up to 15 MPH and no more.

Speaking of Old Nevada 3C, you CAN drive through the State Park and continue to Nevada via Bodie Road so say the Park Rangers.  Apparently the third bridge north to Aurora is out but the wash out can be crossed with standard clearance 4WD.  So basically if you got the guts a trip from Bodie, Aurora, to Hawthorne is still very possible.  For those not in the know NV 3C was one of the pre-1976 state highways that really didn't get much in the way of state maintenance given that it was completely dirt.  Apparently 3C hung on actually until 1982 until was decommissioned but by then it was about 10 miles short of the state line...at least that's what the word on the streets is....













Coming out of CA 270 you can see Mono Lake to the south on a clear day.  There is actually a pretty clean overlook on US 395 that lets you see whole lake:



So something was up along Mono Lake just north of Lee Vining, it looked like a landslide.  There was a 20 minute delay VMS warning sign but it took a lot longer because CHP had something going on just a couple miles north that had ambulances running north like crazy.  If anything with the four lane downhill south to Lee Vining and the expressway starting south of said town maybe it's time to upgrade this to a four lane section along the lake as well.  Regardless I decided to take a side trip down CA 158 on the June Lake Loop Road.  I was actually pretty surprised how much there really was to see since it doesn't look like much from US 395.  Apparently CA 158 was LRN 111 all the way back to 1933 and got the CA 158 signs put up in 1963:





So....here is where the shit hit the fan...Mammoth and the friggin Devils Postpile which just so happens to be the last National Monument in California that I had to see.  I ended up taking the Mammoth Scenic Loop into the Mammoth Mountain Ski area...which seemed excessively slow for the sake of being excessively slow.  Anyways getting to Minerat Summit was no problem at all, plenty of parking.  But I knew if I wanted to see the Postpile......ugh...I would have to take the shuttle.  So basically to give an accurate assessment of how far the D Lot is from the Shuttle Terminal at the Mammoth Ski Resort my wife and I changed to running clothes to do just that...  The shuttle ride is a complete and total miserable abortion, I want to say that we actually viewed the Postpile for about 25 minutes and spent about another 90 waiting for or being dragged around by those stupid shuttle buses.  Seriously...this some remote ass territory, how in the hell is Mammoth so popular in the summer?  Anyways...good thing that I planned for the worst because that's what we got.  I've gotten through some of the largest National Parks in the Country in less than four hours....this is absurd for something so small.  Cool fact though; apparently the Devils Postpile is in Madera County and not Inyo...who knew?  I'd say it's worth seeing...just find that happy gap on a weekday between the end of the summer season and the start of ski season before the monument is shut down for winter.

Now with CA 203...where the hell does it actually begin?  I didn't see any 203 signs until I was well east of the ski resort.  According cahighways it seems that the Forest Service booth near Minerat Summit is the actually western terminus and not the Summit itself....but other sources insist it's the actual summit.  :eyebrow:  Apparently 203 was LRN 112 back in 1933 and didn't get signs until 1964:






The day ended here in Bishop.  I don't know why but I've been craving Vons/Safeway chicken strips all week and finally had about a pounds worth given the unexpected 3 something miles of running 7,500 foot plus today.  I took the almost required US 6 end photo on the way in....it seems rather than Sherman Pass we'll be doubling back a little over CA 120/Tioga Pass instead.  I have a National Parks pass and the car has been a little wonky with the left front rotor and the check engine soon light yesterday.  I'm thinking that Sherman might have to wait until I get new tires and get that rotor machined.  Anyways I'm thinking of heading through Benton and Benton Hot Springs so I can clinch CA 120...more so not double back the way I came on US 395....would have stayed in Mammoth...but it's Mammoth with Mammoth hotel prices.  X-(


Max Rockatansky

#5
Alright time for replies....

Roadfro

-  Good god they need to get that 1.1 mile realignment of US 50 going.  Anything is better than the current slog through the South Tahoe area.
-  I suppose 15% isn't really all that bad in the 1930s when you consider how often 20% plus was common in those days.  I'm sure going across country or even a 20 mile drive in anything was pretty much a hellish experience regardless of what you were driving.  A lot of those older vehicles were solid axle and meant for a pounding that a lot of modern non-commercial vehicles wouldn't take today.
-  Gambling....well I guess that I just got bored with it over the years.  I used to work a lot of Vegas and Laughlin years ago and the former really burned me out on it with how expensive things could get just to play a single game.  I always like Laughlin in that regard, cheap entry for any game you want.....even if that's just the penny slots.  I always liked throwing $20 dollars into the machines at the Casinos that had a car as the jackpot in Laughlin...usually I came away with a couple bucks.  Vegas is better for people watching given that they lose their minds on Las Vegas Blvd.  I always stayed off-strip at one of the chain hotels...or the Stratosphere....why waste the money when you can get a view?  It was always fun picking up police reports in Old Town Vegas...funny to think that I remember the Pawn Stars pawn shop before it was on TV.

Myosh_Tino

-  Hey I love Nevada....my kind of state.  I was supporting the local economy, I brought my wife and she didn't win a damn thing again.  :-D  At least I got her off those Power Ball tickets...  :rolleyes:

Sparker

-  Actually I'm fairly certain that blockage happened right behind me as I was approaching CA 89 and the construction flag-man.  There was way WAY WAY too many CHP officers heading west for it to be anything but an accident.  The good news was that it didn't involve me and I was early enough that I didn't have to pass anyone in the 2-lane sections.  Speaking of Ebbetts and Sonora...I would like to try both in my Challenger.  I figure the more power I can get the better with the 20% grade sections...although Ebbetts concerns me given how narrow it can get.  But hey, anything seems wide after Colony Mill and Mineral King Road these days....all a matter of finding a decent place to stay the night in Sonora to make it happen.

One more thing...when my wife found about the check engine light and didn't want to believe in my method of repair I told her the following:



She did look at the manual....but can't stand when I make fun of her with old Youtube Memes.  There was this whole big thing with my old Camaro when it went over 9,000 miles that took her weeks to figure out.

roadfro

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 20, 2016, 10:42:58 PM
Regardless before I get too far off track, okay where the hell does US 395/50 actually run in Carson City?  US 395 obviously follows the I-580 freeway and it appears US 50 jumps off Williams onto I-580 as well.  However with all that said there was TO US 50/395 reassurance signage on I-580 south of Williams which became regular good old US 50/US 395 on Fairview when the freeway ended.  I'm assuming the "TO" is a mistake or something that has to do with the temporary route on Fairview which will be corrected once the I-580 freeway is finished.  For now though I've actually personally clinched all that is built of I-580 along with US 395 from the Oregon State line all the way through California, Nevada, and then California down to I-15.

The answer to this is a little complicated...

I-580 currently officially ends at the junction of US 50/William Street (the end is not signed, but I-580 shields are not currently present south of this point).

When the Carson City Freeway was opened between William Street and Fairview Drive in 2009, US 50/395 were rerouted onto the new freeway. To make the connection back to original US 50/395 alignment, AASHTO approved a TEMP US 50/395 designation along Fairview Drive and along South Carson Street from Fairview south to the junction where they split.

Reassurance signs on the freeway portion are regular "US 50/395" shields. At the southbound off ramp to Fairview Drive, a reassurance assembly currently states "TO US 50/395". When the freeway section first opened, *all* the reassurance signs along Fariview Drive also used the "TO" banner. If you look closely at all the reassurance assemblies, notice that the shields are not currently mounted to align with the top of the support post–this is because the "TO" banner was previously at the top. (I'm not sure when the "TO" placards were removed, but I'm reasonably certain they were gone by fall 2010–they were definitely removed when Street View went through in September 2011.) I'm still not sure why "TO" banners were used–"TEMP" banners would have been much more appropriate.

Note that the original alignment on South Carson Street is included in the Temporary designation approved by AASHTO. I believe business route designations along the original alignments of both routes were established at the same time (BUS US 50 is not signed). However, in the field, South Carson Street is still signed as mainline US 50/395.


Another wrinkle to complicate matters: If you go by NDOT's "State Maintained Highways" book, US 50/395 have been aligned on the Carson City Freeway since 1994, a decade before construction on any part of the freeway began. SR 529 and SR 530 were created in 1994 along Carson St and William St, respectively to keep the open routes of US 395 and US 50 on the state highway system–the shields were never changed and the state routes were never signed. (Most of SR 529 and all of SR 530 have since been relinquished to Carson City's control.)
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

Max Rockatansky

Funny, I was wondering what happened to the I-580 signs south of Williams and now I know.  Well that would explain why there are some "to" signs and why the others look weird.  So another question though, why all of the sudden in the last few years signing "I-580" when US 395 was sufficient for so many years?  Wouldn't it not be more simple just to keep a single route signed on the freeway?....or at least keep US 395 on the surface alignments that are US 395A.  I suppose now with all those relinquishments in Carson City the latter would be an impossibility now.

Anyways, so I ended up taking Tioga Pass back to Fresno.  I wasn't exactly trusting the car given that I got a bad tank of gas and thought Sherman Pass might be a little too much...turns out I was right but I'll get to that shortly.  The day started out with this nice guide sign for the start of US 6 north of Bishop:



One of these days it's going to be really tempting to do a cross-country US 6 tour.  I figure that I'll need to knock out the remaining 15 National Parks that I have first and all the old alignments of US 66 east of Santa Fe (already documented the rest in road trips) to Chicago Roamin Rich style first.  I was actually a member of the US Route 6 Tour Association for a couple years so the route is obviously one of my favorites.

Anyways, I took CA 120 to reach Lee Vining from US 6 rather than taking US 395.  I hate back tracking and it gave me an opportunity to check out some of the back story of Bodie; namely some of the stops on the Bodie & Benton Railway.  First up you got the modern town of Benton at the intersection of US 6 and CA 120.  I saw modern because Benton Hot Springs which is 5 miles west on CA 120 is the original Benton town site and is sometimes referred to as "Old Benton."  Basically Old Benton was founded in early 1850s due to the local hot springs and to service travelers heading into Southern California.  Basically at the time were talking wagons and such....so really a town in the side of a hill with hot springs was a big draw point.  Apparently there was even mining activity in the area from the 1860s until late 1880s.  Things really change though for Old Benton when the Carson & Colorado Railroad was completed in 1883.  The Carson and & Colorado ran on the alignment which US 6 runs on which in turn led to "Benton Station" being founded which became simply "Benton" probably in the early 1890s while Old Benton became "Benton Hot Springs."  Basically Old Benton is just a ghost town now with most of the buildings being obviously abandoned or falling apart:




Anyways, the Carson and Colorado Railroad is an interesting topic.  This particular line ran from 1880 to 1960 and was narrow gauge.  The line was originally intended to reach the Colorado River but never made it past Keeler, California with the northern terminus being Mound House, NV.  Basically the C&C ran close to what is US 50, US 95A, US 95, NV 360, US 6, east of US 395, and CA 136.  The old rail depot at Laws just north of Bishop has a nice museum dedicated to the railroad and there seems to be some restoration work for new tracks in the area.  The museum has a lot of ASAC road signage in addition to all the rail stuff.

Back to 120...it was in another thread that Sparker mentioned that 120 had a forest south of Mono Lake and shut down in the winter.  Given that there was a mill the forest obviously is a thing and so is the 8,100 something foot pass that 120 runs over.  I'd say looking at the route though it probably lack of traffic that gets 120 shut down east of US 395 more than anything else, not one single car was seen until Mono Mills.

So Mono Mills apparently was the lumber supply town set up for Bodie by the Bodie Railway and Lumber company in 1880.  Basically the lumber yards in Mono Mills supplied Bodie with the majority of materials used to build the structures in town which means probably most of the buildings still standing in Bodie have an origin from this mill.  Apparently the narrow gauge line from Mono Mills to Benton was never completed as the name might imply.  The Bodie and Benton Railway ran on the east side of Mono Lake and up mostly Cottonwood Canyon (see the ASAC sign from yesterday)  The line is best viewed here on Abandoned Rails:

http://www.abandonedrails.com/Bodie_and_Benton_Railroad

Given that there is a grade on the east side of Mono Lake it's interesting that there was never a good paved road built out that way.  Not that there is any communities or anything but it would have been nice to have the option yesterday to bypass Lee Vining with that land slide disaster on US 395 that was on the western shore of Mono Lake.  Back on topic to Mono Mills, when Bodie started to die so did the former.  Mono Mills was shut down by 1917 even though Bodie wasn't totally abandoned until the early 1940s.  Regardless basically all that really is left of Mono Mills today is the mill site:



The climb up Lee Vining Canyon wasn't too bad.  I've always found the eastern grade on 120 to be pretty gentle compared to other Sierra routes like Sonora/108 and Ebbetts/4.  At the Canyon overlook I took some pictures...it's funny, in another thread someone actually said in retrospect the Tioga Pass Road would have been considered "implausible" back in it's time....I guess they didn't count on mining toll roads:



7% is one hell of an engineering feet for early 20th century road building.  Both Sonora and Ebbetts Pass excess 20% grades on the eastern slopes for comparison sake.  I think Tioga Pass gets kind of a infamous reputation since it peaks out at 9,945 feet but it really is by no measure a dangerous or wild road that people who've never been on it would lead you to believe.  Now the crappy thing is that after I was done taking my pictures of Lee Vining Canyon and that monument ANOTHER check engine light came on....so what the hell?  Anyways, there wasn't much point worrying since it was a solid light and I had a LONG way to name brand gas in Oakhurst.  This was probably the best of the batch of Lee Vining Canyon pictures I took:



Thankfully I chose wisely route wise...nobody really comes over Tioga Road from the east.  That gave me some time to enjoy Tuolumme Meadows and the Olmstead overlook of Half Dome:







I'm fairly certain the orange sign with green CA 140 spade was supplied by Caltrans.  Anyways the sign refers to the Ferguson Rock Slide...but I'll talk more about that later.  Anyways, Big Oak Flat Road was apparently completed as a wagon route all the way back in 1874.  Basically the implied route of CA 120 runs from Big Oak Flat Road to where it intersects Tioga Road which it turns east....there is no implied anything for Big Oak Flat Road descending into Yosemite Valley but still cool that the miners in Big Oak Flat wanted access to the Valley so badly even back in the olden days:




Down in Yosemite Valley the weird white spades continue throughout.  I didn't get a picture but there is some nameless green spades for CA 140/120 and a MUTCD compliant US 395 sign heading east on El Portal Road to Big Oak Flat Road.  I stopped at the tunnel view for a minute after turning onto Wawona Road:





Anyways before I hit on Wawona Road and CA 41...I'll refer to my old topic I posted about El Portal Road, CA 140, and the Yosemite Valley Railroad:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18387.msg2159388#msg2159388

With that in mind the Yosemite Valley Railway terminated in El Portal and you would have had to taken a wagon from the left in the first pic.  The second pic is about the best view I could find of the Merced River Gorge where CA 140 runs at the bottom:




Okay, the Wawona Road has it's beginnings as an 1882 stage route built by the founders of the Wawona Hotel.  Technically part of the route existed back when the Hotel was built all the way back in 1876 but 1882 is when the stage route was extended to Yosemite Valley.  Apparently the stage route took a crap load of switch backs to reach the valley floor and probably was all sorts of miserable in a car before the Wawona Tunnel opened in 1933.  Basically this would be the most trafficked route from Yosemite due to it being a straight shot to Fresno via CA 41....and for some reason there is GREEN spades on a guide sign by Glacier Point Road...still look wrong to me:



Here is a good reference site for the Wawona Road and stage route:

http://www.undiscovered-yosemite.com/history-of-wawona.html

So...back at the In-Laws house....ran past the almost completed new passing lanes near CA 145 on the way down.  I'm not heading home until tomorrow...a fresh tank of gas didn't clear out the check engine light.  Way I see it I'll just do some one-stop shopping with new tires, oil, fresh transmission fluid, and if need be a brake rotor machining this week.  I need to get this car back up to spec for Utah in October...Sherman Pass is likely going to have to wait until get some confidence back in terms of mechanical reliability.  I guess that if anything if you have read this far I would impart some advice to you.  If you are in the sub-compact car market...pick the Fiesta over the Sonic and if you need gas on California 49 never EVER stop in Jackson to do it.

nexus73

#8
This is an A+ series of posts with so many great pix of scenery, signs and towns accompanying the writing of all that went on during this road trip.  Over 90% of the pix covered areas I have never seen before so it was extremely gratifying to see so much! 

A poster named Max giving us a max vicarious experience...wonderful!

Rick
US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willits CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.

Max Rockatansky

Thanks, I just wish that I had found a way to link over photos sooner when I joined the site.  Really I wanted to get another look at Bodie, the area surrounding it, and knock out the Devils Postpile.  I'll have to try to get a ATV rental or something back up to Bodie next year so I can head out to Aurora on the Nevada side.  I'd like to add US 95 Nevada, NV 374, and Daylight Pass Road from earlier in the year when I get some time.

roadfro

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 21, 2016, 07:56:41 PM
Funny, I was wondering what happened to the I-580 signs south of Williams and now I know.  Well that would explain why there are some "to" signs and why the others look weird.  So another question though, why all of the sudden in the last few years signing "I-580" when US 395 was sufficient for so many years?  Wouldn't it not be more simple just to keep a single route signed on the freeway?....or at least keep US 395 on the surface alignments that are US 395A.  I suppose now with all those relinquishments in Carson City the latter would be an impossibility now.

NDOT has had AASHTO approval for the I-580 designation since 1978, but there hadn't been a real purpose for posting I-580 shields previously because it didn't really go anywhere. I-580 did appear on some maps in the early 1980's (and evidence exists that 580 shields were posted on some side streets as well), but it's been a mostly hidden designation for a while. With the freeway extension between Mt Rose Hwy and Bowers Mansion Road in 2012, there was finally continuous freeway between Reno and Carson City and 580 shields were posted almost immediately*.

This is conjecture on my part, but I believe part of the reason for moving US 395 to the new alignment** was to encourage through traffic to use the freeway as opposed to the old route through Pleasant Valley/Washoe City. That area has wanted to get speeds slowed and traffic volumes decreased along that stretch for a long time, and signing the old route as US 395 Alt may have helped with that. This rationale also helps explain the establishment of the business routes in Carson City. (Although additional reasoning there is likely that NDOT knew they'd be offloading the old routes to the city, so likely wanted to keep mainline US routes on state-maintained roadways–there is only one instance I know of where a portion of mainline US highway is not NDOT-maintained.)


*Note: Many US 395 shields on side street freeway entrance assemblies were replaced by I-580 shields while side street BGSs covered up the 395's with 580 patches (despite most of these having been designed to have a 580 added next to a the existing 395 shields). However, the two routes are posted side-by-side on the freeway itself. Contrast this to I-515 in Las Vegas, which is was signed alongside US 93 & US 95 at freeway assemblies and on the mainline when I-515 was first signed around 1994/95.

**Note 2: Looking at NDOT State Maintained Highways books since the mid/late 2000's, the highway signed as US 395 between Mt Rose Hwy and Bowers Mansion Road was maintained in the as (semi-)hidden SR 430, with the logs showing a technical gap in US 395 between these two points.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

Max Rockatansky

#11
I guess that NDOT thinks there is some brand equity in having an Interstate 3d shield posted now?...after all this time?  I guess the real question is does it really add anything if you are going to keep posting US 395 shields along the route.  I would have to believe that if the I-580 stayed hidden and it was just US 395 signed for most of the freeway it would have accomplished the same desired affect on the old alignments if they had just NV Shields or hidden designations.  At minimum in Vegas you really don't see a lot in the way of US 93/95 reassurance signs along I-515. 

I don't know....I might be in the minority on this but to me a 3d Interstate should always be trumped in importance by US Route.  Not an exact comparison but I look at the US 60 Superstition Freeway in Arizona as example of how the US Route could be viable over throwing a 3d Interstate Route on it.  The US 60 designation largely goes hidden even on I-10 and I-17 but is definitely the highlighted route to head east out of the Valley.  Now say there was an I-310 on the Superstition Freeway....what does that really add when it would just dead end in Apache Junction and suddenly it becomes US 60?  Maybe that's a debate for another thread....personally I would love to see I-9 instead of I-580 so the number could be snatched away from all the CA 99 - I-9 supporters  :-D

Granted I know there was a huge advantage to get an early Interstate designation even one that was hidden when the Federal Highway Fund was more of a thing.

What is that section of US Route that isn't state maintained?

Also if I have this correct both NV 431 and NV 341 still terminate at Virginia Street correct?  Reason I ask like you said there has been some US 395 surface removals, I don't recall seeing this sign approaching the round about at Virginia:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4015361,-119.7486516,3a,75y,90h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1ZQ8LfRnWOA6BdcH85oBeA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Also I completely forgot that I took a picture down Six Mile Canyon Road in Virginia City which would have been NV 79. 

andy3175

Max, these are great photos. Way up at the top, you posted an E15 Calaveras County shield. There is a small white paddle just like a Caltrans postmile also visible in the picture. I think the route number on this paddle is 58. Years ago, back in the early 90s, when I first traversed this route, I thought E15 was old SR 48, until I discovered all the online resources about route numbering in California. Since then, I've concluded (without any research) that the 48 on that paddle must be part of the Calaveras County inventory system for its maintained roadways. But I can't say whether that's true or not since I've almost forgotten in the years since then. Thank you for posting these!
Regards,
Andy

www.aaroads.com

andy3175

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 22, 2016, 07:16:47 AM
Also if I have this correct both NV 431 and NV 341 still terminate at Virginia Street correct?  Reason I ask like you said there has been some US 395 surface removals, I don't recall seeing this sign approaching the round about at Virginia:

This end shield assembly between the roundabout and Virginia Street indicates that SR 341 continues to end at Virginia Street, not the roundabout. Here is a link to that shield assembly (which includes an erroneous SR 395 shield per the GSV, which may have since been corrected):

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4031435,-119.7442778,3a,75y,268.36h,94.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBflu5wzNe8kQAC3TR5gfUA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

At the roundabout between SR 341 (Geiger Grade Road) and Veterans Parkway, there are small green guide signs that say SR 341 pointing west toward Virginia Street. Northern Nevada's roundabouts seem to prefer using the small green signs that say "SR xxx" rather than a shield assembly. I wonder if this is the best way to navigate through the roundabouts? I would prefer advance signage clearly showing how to navigate the roundabout for the through route, and in this case a shield for SR 341 is easier to spot than the small green guide that from a distance may look the same as the other two incoming roads, Whites Creek Lane and Veterans Parkway.

Speaking of Veterans Parkway, does anyone know how far north that roadway is expected to go? Or has it already reached its maximum intended distance at Meadows Parkway? It seems like a link to McCarran Blvd (SR 659) or one of its connecting streets to the north would be nice.
Regards,
Andy

www.aaroads.com

Concrete Bob

Veteran's Parkway will be extended north to Sparks Boulevard and Gregg Street in South Sparks.  Sparks Boulevard is a limited-access expressway between Gregg Street and I-80, which runs a half mile or so north of Gregg Street:

http://www.southeastconnector.com/interactive-maps/

Looks like the entire corridor will be a nice limited access expressway between 80 in Sparks and 395/580 near the Mount Rose cutoff. 

Sacramento is getting a Southeast Connector, why shoudn't Reno/Sparks !! 

Max Rockatansky

#15
Quote from: andy3175 on August 22, 2016, 12:44:58 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 22, 2016, 07:16:47 AM
Also if I have this correct both NV 431 and NV 341 still terminate at Virginia Street correct?  Reason I ask like you said there has been some US 395 surface removals, I don't recall seeing this sign approaching the round about at Virginia:

This end shield assembly between the roundabout and Virginia Street indicates that SR 341 continues to end at Virginia Street, not the roundabout. Here is a link to that shield assembly (which includes an erroneous SR 395 shield per the GSV, which may have since been corrected):

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4031435,-119.7442778,3a,75y,268.36h,94.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBflu5wzNe8kQAC3TR5gfUA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

At the roundabout between SR 341 (Geiger Grade Road) and Veterans Parkway, there are small green guide signs that say SR 341 pointing west toward Virginia Street. Northern Nevada's roundabouts seem to prefer using the small green signs that say "SR xxx" rather than a shield assembly. I wonder if this is the best way to navigate through the roundabouts? I would prefer advance signage clearly showing how to navigate the roundabout for the through route, and in this case a shield for SR 341 is easier to spot than the small green guide that from a distance may look the same as the other two incoming roads, Whites Creek Lane and Veterans Parkway.

Speaking of Veterans Parkway, does anyone know how far north that roadway is expected to go? Or has it already reached its maximum intended distance at Meadows Parkway? It seems like a link to McCarran Blvd (SR 659) or one of its connecting streets to the north would be nice.

I think that I answered my own question about US 395A actually through Virginia Street, the northern terminus appears appears to be at exit 61 which would make the whole current alignment 431/341 still make sense at Virginia. 

Quote from: andy3175 on August 22, 2016, 12:36:37 PM
Max, these are great photos. Way up at the top, you posted an E15 Calaveras County shield. There is a small white paddle just like a Caltrans postmile also visible in the picture. I think the route number on this paddle is 58. Years ago, back in the early 90s, when I first traversed this route, I thought E15 was old SR 48, until I discovered all the online resources about route numbering in California. Since then, I've concluded (without any research) that the 48 on that paddle must be part of the Calaveras County inventory system for its maintained roadways. But I can't say whether that's true or not since I've almost forgotten in the years since then. Thank you for posting these!

It has to be something in regards to county stock.  I don't think anything state highway wise ever ran south out of Copperopolis but I would need to look at a lot of old LRN maps to confirm that.  I wish that I had the presence in mind to check for route mileage markers on Pool Station since it carries a pretty substantial length between CA 4 and CA 49.

Alright, so as promised this would have been the western terminus of NV 79 at 6 Mile Canyon Road and NV 17 at C Street in Virginia City:



Basically NV 79 would have run the entire length of 6 Mile Canyon Road down hill to US 50 just east of Dayton.  I would imagine that the route was cut in 1976 during the renumbering and I don't have a date for when it was first signed.  This 1956 map shows the numbering scheme that includes 79 as described but yet to be paved:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~212115~5500230:Shell-Highway-Map-of-Nevada-?sort=pub_list_no_initialsort%2Cpub_list_no_initialsort%2Cpub_date%2Cpub_date&qvq=q:nevada%2Bhighway%2Bmaps;sort:pub_list_no_initialsort%2Cpub_list_no_initialsort%2Cpub_date%2Cpub_date;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=5&trs=8

It would seem that all of 17 became the modern 341.  I'm still trying to figure out if the 51 was what is now is NV 342 or if it was the truck bypass of Gold Hill/Silver City that NV 341 now runs on.  I haven't found the best resources for the old Nevada route numbers other than maps.  The numbering scheme got confusing as all hell and it's no wonder it was renumbered like it was.

roadfro

#16
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 22, 2016, 07:16:47 AM
I guess that NDOT thinks there is some brand equity in having an Interstate 3d shield posted now?...after all this time?  I guess the real question is does it really add anything if you are going to keep posting US 395 shields along the route.  I would have to believe that if the I-580 stayed hidden and it was just US 395 signed for most of the freeway it would have accomplished the same desired affect on the old alignments if they had just NV Shields or hidden designations.  At minimum in Vegas you really don't see a lot in the way of US 93/95 reassurance signs along I-515. 

The "brand equity" definitely was a factor—prior to posting I-580 shields, Carson City was one of only five state capitals not linked to the Interstate Highway System. But yes, had they not signed I-580, it wouldn't really have made that much difference with traffic.

I have to correct you with I-515. US 93/95 are *always* cosigned with I-515 shields on the freeway mainline and freeway entrance assemblies. Some newer lighted street name signs at ramp intersections may refer to I-515 only (older ones usually referred to US 95 only). In local parlance, referring to this section as I-515 has gained traction, but many long-time locals (myself included) still refer to that section as US 95.


QuoteWhat is that section of US Route that isn't state maintained?

A short section of US 93 Alt in West Wendover, the east-west segment along Wendover Blvd between the branches leading north and south out of town.


EDIT: Corrected "US 93" to "US 93 Alt" in last line.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

roadfro

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 22, 2016, 10:20:23 PM
Quote from: andy3175 on August 22, 2016, 12:44:58 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 22, 2016, 07:16:47 AM
Also if I have this correct both NV 431 and NV 341 still terminate at Virginia Street correct?  Reason I ask like you said there has been some US 395 surface removals, I don't recall seeing this sign approaching the round about at Virginia:

This end shield assembly between the roundabout and Virginia Street indicates that SR 341 continues to end at Virginia Street, not the roundabout. Here is a link to that shield assembly (which includes an erroneous SR 395 shield per the GSV, which may have since been corrected):

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4031435,-119.7442778,3a,75y,268.36h,94.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBflu5wzNe8kQAC3TR5gfUA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

At the roundabout between SR 341 (Geiger Grade Road) and Veterans Parkway, there are small green guide signs that say SR 341 pointing west toward Virginia Street. Northern Nevada's roundabouts seem to prefer using the small green signs that say "SR xxx" rather than a shield assembly. I wonder if this is the best way to navigate through the roundabouts? I would prefer advance signage clearly showing how to navigate the roundabout for the through route, and in this case a shield for SR 341 is easier to spot than the small green guide that from a distance may look the same as the other two incoming roads, Whites Creek Lane and Veterans Parkway.

Speaking of Veterans Parkway, does anyone know how far north that roadway is expected to go? Or has it already reached its maximum intended distance at Meadows Parkway? It seems like a link to McCarran Blvd (SR 659) or one of its connecting streets to the north would be nice.

I think that I answered my own question about US 395A actually through Virginia Street, the northern terminus appears appears to be at exit 61 which would make the whole current alignment 431/341 still make sense at Virginia.

Max, I'm guessing that 395 shield on Mt Rose was removed at some point, but I'd have to look. Any time I'm down that way, I'm usually headed the opposite direction.

Andy, I'd never seen that error shield before–thanks for linking it. That's the first US/State shield mix-up I've ever seen in Nevada. I'll have to make a trip down that way just to see if it is still there...


When US 395A was created, NDOT basically applied that designation along the entirety of what was SR 429 (Bowers Mansion Road) and that segment of SR 430 (Carson-Reno Hwy & S Virginia St), which explains why the alternate route goes so far north (and technically overlaps part of the sparsely-signed US 395 Business route).

SR 431/341 still terminate at Virginia Street.

Washoe RTC has proposed a realignment of SR 341 to have it's northern end link to US 395A a little bit south of the SR 431 junction. I think the thought process here is to have Veterans Pkwy link directly to Virginia to make the Southeast Connector a bit more seamless.

Quote from: Concrete Bob on August 22, 2016, 09:23:20 PM
Veteran's Parkway will be extended north to Sparks Boulevard and Gregg Street in South Sparks.  Sparks Boulevard is a limited-access expressway between Gregg Street and I-80, which runs a half mile or so north of Gregg Street:

http://www.southeastconnector.com/interactive-maps/

Looks like the entire corridor will be a nice limited access expressway between 80 in Sparks and 395/580 near the Mount Rose cutoff. 

But yes, the Southeast Connector/Veterans Pkwy extension to Greg Street (one 'g') will be limited-access expressway for the portions currently under construction, as there will be no adjacent development (much of it goes through wetlands surrounding Steamboat Creek) and traffic signals at the major streets intersected. The residential access along the currently-extant sections of Veterans Pkwy will remain. (BTW: Sparks Blvd is a major arterial, not a limited-access expressway.)

This project has been planned for quite some time. With the potential alignment in mind, it explains why NDOT built the NB loop ramp to WB I-80 during the I-80 design-build project a few years ago.


Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 22, 2016, 10:20:23 PM
Alright, so as promised this would have been the western terminus of NV 79 at 6 Mile Canyon Road and NV 17 at C Street in Virginia City:



Basically NV 79 would have run the entire length of 6 Mile Canyon Road down hill to US 50 just east of Dayton.  I would imagine that the route was cut in 1976 during the renumbering and I don't have a date for when it was first signed.  This 1956 map shows the numbering scheme that includes 79 as described but yet to be paved:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~212115~5500230:Shell-Highway-Map-of-Nevada-?sort=pub_list_no_initialsort%2Cpub_list_no_initialsort%2Cpub_date%2Cpub_date&qvq=q:nevada%2Bhighway%2Bmaps;sort:pub_list_no_initialsort%2Cpub_list_no_initialsort%2Cpub_date%2Cpub_date;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=5&trs=8

It would seem that all of 17 became the modern 341.  I'm still trying to figure out if the 51 was what is now is NV 342 or if it was the truck bypass of Gold Hill/Silver City that NV 341 now runs on.  I haven't found the best resources for the old Nevada route numbers other than maps.  The numbering scheme got confusing as all hell and it's no wonder it was renumbered like it was.

Six Mile Canyon Road was one of the legislated routes that was not maintained by NDOT, and removed with the 1976 renumbering.

NV 51 was located in northeast Nevada, connecting to ID 51. I'm assuming you mean NV 17? The truck bypass of Gold Hill/Silver City was renumbered to 17; the old route through the towns (current SR 342) had been rechristened as NV 80.


If you have access to old copies of state laws or Nevada Revised Statutes, that can be a good source of pre-1976 route information. However, many routes are described so generally that you have to supplement that research with maps.

The government document section of the UNR Knowledge Center (library) has a lot of old NDOT documents, including route logs and highway studies. When I found that a few years ago, it was like finding gold...but I haven't really had time lately to do much roadgeek research.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

Max Rockatansky

I had to figure it was either US 95A or US 93A somewhere, go figure it would be West Wendover.  I'm actually surprised that route still has stayed a US Route all these years with the large multiplex of I-80.  I was actually in Wendover last May but I honestly don't recall if there was US 93A signs on I-80 or not.  Which kind of figures considering how screwed up I had the signage on I-515.   The last time I was in Vegas was 2014 (May I want to say) which I took Tropicana to of US 95/93/I-515 was heading south to the Hoover Dam and Arizona.

Found this on Youtube today.  Apparently this is Bodie back in the 1950s right before the last 10 or so people left and it became a state park and before CA 270 was even an LRN.  The place looks completely the same today except for the bank building but damn the narrator almost sounds like he has contempt for the place.  :-D





Yeah look at the 1956 map, there is an arbitrary "51" right at the south end of NV 17 at US 50.  The way it's labeled would almost make you think that "51" was what went south out of Virginia City via Gold Hill and Silver City to US 50...could be a map error or me reading something wrong.  And you're right, most of the stuff that I do have on the pre-76 routes just mentions a lot of them but doesn't really give a ton of details leading to map hunting.  I have a pretty decent source for Nevada Road maps somewhere in my book marks that I'll have to dig up some time.  It's just funny that after all this time that 79 actually became a paved and somewhat reasonable road in comparison to some of the other non-state maintained ones like we discussed with 8A, 34, and 3C recently.

roadfro

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 23, 2016, 11:03:02 AM
I had to figure it was either US 95A or US 93A somewhere, go figure it would be West Wendover.  I'm actually surprised that route still has stayed a US Route all these years with the large multiplex of I-80.  I was actually in Wendover last May but I honestly don't recall if there was US 93A signs on I-80 or not.

US 93A has been a US route for a long time, with previous iterations as US 50A and US 50. It wouldn't get approved as an Alternate route today (and actually, it was approved as a *temporary* alternate in 1976...nothing like a 40-year temporary routing :-D ).

NDOT signs all the US route overlaps on I-80 pretty well, at least they were the last time I drove all the way across the state (fall 2013). They're generally good about signing the I/US overlaps, which makes the removal/covering of US 395 shields on most roadways intersecting I-580/US 395 all the more interesting...

Quote
Yeah look at the 1956 map, there is an arbitrary "51" right at the south end of NV 17 at US 50.  The way it's labeled would almost make you think that "51" was what went south out of Virginia City via Gold Hill and Silver City to US 50...could be a map error or me reading something wrong.  And you're right, most of the stuff that I do have on the pre-76 routes just mentions a lot of them but doesn't really give a ton of details leading to map hunting.  I have a pretty decent source for Nevada Road maps somewhere in my book marks that I'll have to dig up some time.  It's just funny that after all this time that 79 actually became a paved and somewhat reasonable road in comparison to some of the other non-state maintained ones like we discussed with 8A, 34, and 3C recently.

I totally missed that "51" on the map this morning. According to a collection of old state laws from 1958 (conveniently copied when I found them, for just this type of purpose), that NV 51 is legitimate. It is separate from what was NV 17 and NV 80. I forgot that the 51 designation was reassigned in the 1960s to what is now SR 225/Mountain City Hwy (previously a combination of parts of NV 11, 11A and 43) to match ID 51.

It makes sense that Six Mile Canyon Rd would eventually be paved, as it eliminates some backtracking between Virginia City and points east along US 50. Most of the other old routes we've discussed weren't really serving any useful population or purpose by renumbering time.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

Max Rockatansky

Figure I'll link over some of the other highways that I talked about or showed photos, maps, ect of this year::

Colony Mill Road, CA 198, and the Generals Highway

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18518.0

-  Largely talk about the original entrance road to the Giant Forest, the replacement Generals Highway, and some history about CA 198

Mineral King Road/Proposed CA 276

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18432.0

-  Discussion about Mineral King Road and the proposals that almost had it as a State Highway but ultimately played a factor in much of it being absorbed into Sequoia National Park

245 and Obscure California Highways

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=17893.0

-  Granted not all the discussion is mine and it covers a wide array of highways in the state.  I did post some photos and maps of the whole CA 245/CA 69/CA 65 wriggamoral from years past.  I also talked about CA 180 running on Dunlap Road before the modern alignment to Kings Canyon was built.



So with that in mind....I'll do the rest of the major road trips and route observations as I'm feeling up for it....at least for 2016.  So start things off, Bakersfield to Big Basin State Park back in early July.

The background here was that I noticed on my Cousin's social media profile that she along with her daughter and husband were in San Jose apparently for the Olympic Trails.  I called her and apparently she had no idea that I had been back in California for several years.  Apparently they had tickets to this thing for two years and never caught that I was in the general area.  So basically I figured since I had a free day that I ought to book it up to San Jose at least to have lunch...apparently they had no other plans to see anything but San Francisco.  I offered Yosemite or Big Sur....but these are Virginia folks who don't drive much which became apparent later in the day.

Anyways I had a long haul ahead of me so I figured the most direct route back and forth would be best....if I had time I was planning on taking CA 25...  This was the rough route up to San Jose and Big Basin that I took:

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Bakersfield,+CA/Cupertino,+CA/Big+Basin+Redwoods+State+Park,+Big+Basin+Way,+Boulder+Creek,+CA/@35.5002477,-119.9370622,9z/data=!4m30!4m29!1m15!1m1!1s0x80ea6bc8b994cb0d:0x59360c0998fe74c8!2m2!1d-119.0187125!2d35.3732921!3m4!1m2!1d-119.5715009!2d35.6013495!3s0x80eb051c797b7c03:0x274977902b2b923f!3m4!1m2!1d-121.9405153!2d37.3038034!3s0x808e34d3758b4adf:0x62f8fa192555ad7c!1m5!1m1!1s0x808fb4571bd377ab:0x394d3fe1a3e178b4!2m2!1d-122.0321823!2d37.3229978!1m5!1m1!1s0x808e53c72994da41:0x8bf68e13f4014c2b!2m2!1d-122.222461!2d37.1722634!3e0?hl=en

-  CA 99 is...just boring so I took it up to CA 46 to over to I-5.  I don't particularly care for taking CA 58 around Bakersfield, maybe some day after the Western Parkway is finished.
-  I-5 from CA 46 to Los Banos ain't the most exciting of roads but it usually doesn't have much in the way of traffic asides from long haul freight and local truckers.  At least to this point things were going well...but I figured they would go to hell by Pacheco Pass and Gilroy.
-  CA 152 was a disaster like always.  The worst part was that there was a huge truck tire that ripped off a semi in front of me which I had to do a pretty quick swerve to avoid.  I noticed the new truck lane being built for Pacheco Pass but I was early enough to get over without much issue.  Once CA 152 went down to two-lanes however traffic got bad....like really bad...maybe 20 MPH snails pace.  The possibility of a toll road through here is highly intriguing, truckers be damned.  After slogging around I finally hit US 101.
-  I should clarify, my Cousin was staying in Cupertino to be exact.  I didn't want to go to downtown San Jose so I cut west on CA 85 and up CA 17 to I-280.  Traffic was really only kind of bogging down on CA 85, both CA 17 and I-280 was good shape.
-  I picked my Cousin and her family up and began the climb via Pierce Road to CA 9.  I kind of found CA 9 to be a little on the way too slow side and largely had local populace going way over the speed limit.  It was right about this time that my Cousin told me she wasn't expecting the road to be so twisty....bad omen of things to come.  :-D  Her husband wanted to stop and take pictures of the coastal mountains...which of course I took a couple too:



Once I hit CA 236 things got interesting when the road narrowed to a lane and half.  Basically my Cousin is freaking out at this point and starts to ask me silly questions about elevation sickness (despite the peak elevation being 2,500 feet).  The worst was when a log truck was coming the other way I got an earful of "holy $%@ is that a log truck in my ear?"  So finally we arrive at Big Basin and I show them some of the Redwood Groves, they seemed to enjoy.  I took the first picture with the intent of mocking my Cousin's fear of the "oh so high mountain road:"





Heading out of Big Basin I took the route all the way back to CA 9 but to Boulder Creek.  I wanted to cut north on CA 35 but my Cousin told me she was car sick along with her daughter.  So I ended up going back the same back down hill to Cupertino...kind of boring doubling back, at least in my opinion.  I got treated to lunch at some sort of Chinese place which was sufficient.  Afterwards I dropped the crew back at the hotel and headed back to US 101 via I-280.

US 101 and CA 152 turned out be a complete disaster.  I want to say it was 2:30 PM but the traffic was heavy and backing up severely.  The 511 service told me there was "congestion" which to me always means a cluster%#% of a traffic jam.  CA 152 in Gilroy was brutal and backed up all the way into town from Pacheco Pass.  Needless to say any delusion I had about taking CA 25 to CA 198 was crushed by traffic.  So I ended up cutting back over to CA 99 from I-5 via CA 198 and headed home.

So observation....if this wasn't a family affair falling into my lap I would have never taken the route that I did.  More than likely I would have taken a day and headed up CA 1 completely or used CA 25 as described before.  Apparently there was an encounter my Cousin had with Suicide 17 heading to Santa Cruz....the comment was "surprise sudden turn in the mountains."  :-D  I honestly don't think they'll be back, they did their San Francisco tourist obligation the next day and headed home content.  I told them to give me advanced notice next time...if there is a next time...because their trip won't include wimpy coastal mountains.  :rolleyes:

Also...it also reinforced why I picked Bakersfield over L.A., San Jose, and San Diego....same money and I've gotten way too old to tolerate the traffic everyday.


Max Rockatansky

Quote from: roadfro on August 23, 2016, 10:15:51 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 23, 2016, 11:03:02 AM
I had to figure it was either US 95A or US 93A somewhere, go figure it would be West Wendover.  I'm actually surprised that route still has stayed a US Route all these years with the large multiplex of I-80.  I was actually in Wendover last May but I honestly don't recall if there was US 93A signs on I-80 or not.

US 93A has been a US route for a long time, with previous iterations as US 50A and US 50. It wouldn't get approved as an Alternate route today (and actually, it was approved as a *temporary* alternate in 1976...nothing like a 40-year temporary routing :-D ).

NDOT signs all the US route overlaps on I-80 pretty well, at least they were the last time I drove all the way across the state (fall 2013). They're generally good about signing the I/US overlaps, which makes the removal/covering of US 395 shields on most roadways intersecting I-580/US 395 all the more interesting...

Quote
Yeah look at the 1956 map, there is an arbitrary "51" right at the south end of NV 17 at US 50.  The way it's labeled would almost make you think that "51" was what went south out of Virginia City via Gold Hill and Silver City to US 50...could be a map error or me reading something wrong.  And you're right, most of the stuff that I do have on the pre-76 routes just mentions a lot of them but doesn't really give a ton of details leading to map hunting.  I have a pretty decent source for Nevada Road maps somewhere in my book marks that I'll have to dig up some time.  It's just funny that after all this time that 79 actually became a paved and somewhat reasonable road in comparison to some of the other non-state maintained ones like we discussed with 8A, 34, and 3C recently.

I totally missed that "51" on the map this morning. According to a collection of old state laws from 1958 (conveniently copied when I found them, for just this type of purpose), that NV 51 is legitimate. It is separate from what was NV 17 and NV 80. I forgot that the 51 designation was reassigned in the 1960s to what is now SR 225/Mountain City Hwy (previously a combination of parts of NV 11, 11A and 43) to match ID 51.

It makes sense that Six Mile Canyon Rd would eventually be paved, as it eliminates some backtracking between Virginia City and points east along US 50. Most of the other old routes we've discussed weren't really serving any useful population or purpose by renumbering time.

I honestly didn't look for the US 93A but I had to figure now that I thought about it that would make sense since NDOT seems to be more on the up and up with route marker maintenance.  At least they are consistent with co-signage in that it's placed everywhere to the same standard.  Out of the California side it gets way more wonky with multiplexes or "implied" ones that don't exist on paper like US 101 and CA 1.  But you're right with huge stance the AASHTO took against route suffixes and intrastate routes less than 300 miles they wouldn't stand a chance being approved today.  I would suspect US 89A would be forced into a 3d out in Arizona and Utah in the same vein if it was a modern request.

So where was that 50s NV 51 going if NV 17 and NV 80 were already in place?  In regards to Six Mile Canyon, any idea when it was actually paved?...or if it was Storrey County that did it?  I would have to think it was paved before the 76 renumbering?   But yes a lot of those eliminated routes basically served former communities or ghost towns, but by the time the legislative acts were enacted they probably did make more sense if not just slightly with trace populations.  With 3C I really don't know what they were going for.  Bodie was basically dead by 1940 and Aurora was done for good by the late 1910s.

Max Rockatansky

Last one for the night....this was the Crater Lake trip back in May.

So basically this would have been one of the first road trips I posted about on the forum.  I had some time off in early May and wanted to clear off some stuff I hadn't seen yet in Northern California and Oregon.  Namely this would be the Trinity Mountains, Oregon Caves, and Lava Beds National Monument.  I had some friends recently move to Bend, OR and it was a good opportunity to meet up with them for a day at Crater Lake since it was along my route.  The only thing that I didn't get to do was the Oregon Caves...

So basically the first day started out with a quick early morning to get past Sacramento on CA 99, US 50/I-80 BL, and I-5.  I like I-5 north of Sacramento save for one thing....it really needs to be raised to 75-80 MPH at least until Redding.  I was hoping for better weather but Mount Shasta was pretty covered up:



Believe it or not that is Mount Shasta from I-5...you can see about 10,000 feet up on the mountain...good thing I had the full 14,179 feet back in 2014 from US 97:



Speaking of US 97, I got off at Weed and noticed the ceiling was lifting in Oregon but was backing up on Mount Shasta.  Basically this mean possible snow given the elevation if not heavy rain so I booked it CA 161 on the Oregon State Line ASAP.  CA 161 is kind of weird given it straddles the state line and is mostly 65 MPH instead of 55 MPH.  The south side of the highway contains Lower Klamath Lake was connected to upper Klamath Lake prior to the Klamath Project:



I cut south on Hill Road which becomes part of the Volcanic Legacy Scenic Highway which passes Tule Lake on the way to Lava Beds National Monument.  Basically this is another controlled natural lake and is very close to one of the Japanese interment camps that was on the east side of the lake near the town of Tule Lake.  Once I got to Lava Beds the rain started to come down hard which isn't what you want while trying to explore lava tubes. 





After doing what I came for at Lava Beds I booked it back over the state line at Merill Road just off of CA 161 which apparently is one of the ways into the state with no Agriculture Station.  :awesomeface:  I spent a little too much time in Crater Lake the next day with my friends and never made it to the Oregon Caves.  I did stop by Jacksonville really quick though since it was one of the few Gold Rush era mining strikes in Oregon.





I took US 199 back into California from Oregon. US 199 on the Oregon side is boring as sin but across the state line it's a completely bad ass time given it goes from sudden expressway to super narrow river road.  I'm actually kind of surprised that this hung on as a US Route given California's stance on them and how short this really is at 80 miles.  There is a huge Redwood Grove near Crescent City but I couldn't overt my eyes from the road enough to get a good look of a place to pull over.  Beautiful and fun road, but probably a lot more difficult than might be believed for a US Route.  I took US 101 into Crescent City to spend the night.  The next morning I headed down US 101 to Arcata to turn east on CA 299.  For some reason a lot of the park roads that were old alignments of US 101 were shut down so really the good Redwood Grove I was able to reach was Lady Bird Johnson.  I did stop on some of the beaches before cutting onto an old surface alignment of US 299 but I'll work on the Trinity Range tomorrow since it will take a lot longer to drum up a road report on.






roadfro

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 23, 2016, 10:50:17 PM
So where was that 50s NV 51 going if NV 17 and NV 80 were already in place?

The first 51 iteration was just a short highway connecting from NV 17 near Silver City to NV 2A in Dayton. Nearest I can tell from the description, I think it is what Google marks as "Dayton Toll Road".

Quote
In regards to Six Mile Canyon, any idea when it was actually paved?...or if it was Storrey County that did it?  I would have to think it was paved before the 76 renumbering?

After bedtime so I won't research it in detail, but did just take a quick look at the 1976-77 NDOT state map online. Six Mile Canyon Road is not yet paved on that map, so its paving was almost certainly a Storey County endeavor whenever it finally happened.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: roadfro on August 24, 2016, 03:31:22 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 23, 2016, 10:50:17 PM
So where was that 50s NV 51 going if NV 17 and NV 80 were already in place?

The first 51 iteration was just a short highway connecting from NV 17 near Silver City to NV 2A in Dayton. Nearest I can tell from the description, I think it is what Google marks as "Dayton Toll Road".

Quote
In regards to Six Mile Canyon, any idea when it was actually paved?...or if it was Storrey County that did it?  I would have to think it was paved before the 76 renumbering?

After bedtime so I won't research it in detail, but did just take a quick look at the 1976-77 NDOT state map online. Six Mile Canyon Road is not yet paved on that map, so its paving was almost certainly a Storey County endeavor whenever it finally happened.

Yeah no wonder that one got dropped so soon, why not just make it an extension of 2A if it was such a big deal to have some extra derelict roads connect US 50 and Virginia City?  I mean it's pretty obvious that there was a huge problem with all these silly legislative numbers...it's amusing how Nevada probably went from one of the least organized highway systems to one of the best.  Even stranger....I just noticed that there was no state highway number on Silver Peak Road east of Silver Peak to US 95?....really there is a stubby 51 and some bat shit crazy routes like 3C but nothing for east of Silver Peak?  :rolleyes:

Kind of makes me wonder if 79 had been paved in the 50s or 60s if it would have been dropped or picked up for state maintenance?  That's a pretty handy little short cut if you are heading out towards Fallon rather than Carson City.



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