I know Utah and Missouri are like that. All exit ramps should have stop signs on both sides.
https://goo.gl/maps/kmAhQxLJsmngQRx2A
https://goo.gl/maps/FtgxFs5iwoP1fuJN9
https://goo.gl/maps/E44aEKHKZjr66TZs5
Why?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 05:20:43 PM
Why?
For better visibility. The same reason why some signals have double red lights.
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 05:25:19 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 05:20:43 PM
Why?
For better visibility. The same reason why some signals have double red lights.
For rural freeway exits where there is only a single lane from the exit ramp connecting to an intersecting street? You do have idea of how much an additional stop sign, post and labor would cost for unnecessary redundancy?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 05:55:03 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 05:25:19 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 05:20:43 PM
Why?
For better visibility. The same reason why some signals have double red lights.
For rural freeway exits where there is only a single lane from the exit ramp connecting to an intersecting street? You do have idea of how much an additional stop sign, post and labor would cost for unnecessary redundancy?
Well, see this.
https://goo.gl/maps/rCNHnnFtAygbX3D86
If you can't figure out that stopping at the top of an exit ramp is a really good idea regardless of signage, I don't want you driving behind me.
tolbs17 must be using a random nitpick topic generator to keep his post counts up.
Sorry. NCDOT has changed over to redundant stop signs sometime in the past 10 years. In the past, it was only used at intersections in tight right hand turns and in response to frequent accident locations.
Do the second and third ones in the OP even need stop signs?
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 06:02:16 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 05:55:03 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 05:25:19 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 05:20:43 PM
Why?
For better visibility. The same reason why some signals have double red lights.
For rural freeway exits where there is only a single lane from the exit ramp connecting to an intersecting street? You do have idea of how much an additional stop sign, post and labor would cost for unnecessary redundancy?
Well, see this.
https://goo.gl/maps/rCNHnnFtAygbX3D86
And how is that like the first three examples you gave? This example has a median island, the others don't.
Quote from: 1 on February 25, 2022, 06:10:24 PM
Do the second and third ones in the OP even need stop signs?
Looking at this, no?
https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/older_users/fhwasa15088/ch3.cfm#fig44
Quote from: 1 on February 25, 2022, 06:10:24 PM
Do the second and third ones in the OP even need stop signs?
I'd argue that they likely wouldn't. Hell, I didn't even notice the westbound I-80 Exit to Cummings Skyway lacked one until someone pointed it out to me.
https://flic.kr/p/2mXBmJK
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 06:14:08 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 06:02:16 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 05:55:03 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 05:25:19 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 05:20:43 PM
Why?
For better visibility. The same reason why some signals have double red lights.
For rural freeway exits where there is only a single lane from the exit ramp connecting to an intersecting street? You do have idea of how much an additional stop sign, post and labor would cost for unnecessary redundancy?
Well, see this.
https://goo.gl/maps/rCNHnnFtAygbX3D86
And how is that like the first three examples you gave? This example has a median island, the others don't.
Because that's what NCDOT did to pretty much all exit ramps prior to the 2000s.
Here's one with NO median island.
https://goo.gl/maps/wnG9P6PqEP42iQHK9
Other states put stop signs on both sides. It's not just North Carolina that does.
Here are examples
https://goo.gl/maps/E1WffdbHJiab6C1H9
https://goo.gl/maps/U9fgyocT3LWEBB5X7
https://goo.gl/maps/8GEqxvp1AsdRtsR4A
https://goo.gl/maps/YY8VrdyWTWegtmMK7
And more on...
I would venture there are vastly more rural exits throughout the US with just a single stop sign than those with two (or more). Even the exits into my little rural town have only 1 stop sign at each exit, and I have yet to see or hear about an accident because someone ignored the sign. To duplicate stop signs at every rural exit would be an unnecessary waste of limited highway signage funds. I'd even argue that posting yield signs instead of stop signs at some of the "rural access" exits would be sufficient.
I guess you missed the Exit I posted off of I-80 onto Cummings Skyway if you think every exit in California has dual stop signs.
After just a few minutes of scrolling around Google Maps, I came with a bunch of random exits from various Western and Midwestern states:
Montana: https://goo.gl/maps/KyEij5Y47Cj7Wf4w6
North Dakota: https://goo.gl/maps/FeSiEvamh8ngAkcx7
South Dakota: https://goo.gl/maps/qswR9GpppMg5dnXL6
Idaho: https://goo.gl/maps/XxE2GJp2J8TZX6Mp7
Wyoming: https://goo.gl/maps/tDRZjb3541FSXuWJ6
Utah: https://goo.gl/maps/JxhLeAcYDTQCKzz16
Minnesota: https://goo.gl/maps/RgBgwtrbawWDx59W9
Absolutely none of these need double stop signs. The one posted is clear and more than sufficient to get the point across. Yes, other Western states do post double signs, but that doesn't mean it needs to be universal. To posit the opposite, I would argue dual signs at every exit increase "stop sign fatigue". Drivers get so used to seeing them everywhere, they start to ignore them.
Quote from: FrCorySticha on February 25, 2022, 06:20:36 PM
To duplicate stop signs at every rural exit would be an unnecessary waste of limited highway signage funds. I'd even argue that posting yield signs instead of stop signs at some of the "rural access" exits would be sufficient.
Well, this is a very rural area and it has dual stop signs.
https://goo.gl/maps/HhA2sjLkQJzffSPB9
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 06:35:20 PM
Quote from: FrCorySticha on February 25, 2022, 06:20:36 PM
To duplicate stop signs at every rural exit would be an unnecessary waste of limited highway signage funds. I'd even argue that posting yield signs instead of stop signs at some of the "rural access" exits would be sufficient.
Well, this is a very rural area and it has dual stop signs.
https://goo.gl/maps/HhA2sjLkQJzffSPB9
And every other DOT should do the same because why?
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 06:35:20 PM
Quote from: FrCorySticha on February 25, 2022, 06:20:36 PM
To duplicate stop signs at every rural exit would be an unnecessary waste of limited highway signage funds. I'd even argue that posting yield signs instead of stop signs at some of the "rural access" exits would be sufficient.
Well, this is a very rural area and it has dual stop signs.
https://goo.gl/maps/HhA2sjLkQJzffSPB9
Your definition of "very rural" and my definition of "very rural" are two vastly different things. https://goo.gl/maps/ruRHq6Dm4VEVehvp6
Quote from: FrCorySticha on February 25, 2022, 06:39:50 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 06:35:20 PM
Quote from: FrCorySticha on February 25, 2022, 06:20:36 PM
To duplicate stop signs at every rural exit would be an unnecessary waste of limited highway signage funds. I'd even argue that posting yield signs instead of stop signs at some of the "rural access" exits would be sufficient.
Well, this is a very rural area and it has dual stop signs.
https://goo.gl/maps/HhA2sjLkQJzffSPB9
Your definition of "very rural" and my definition of "very rural" are two vastly different things. https://goo.gl/maps/ruRHq6Dm4VEVehvp6
You mean to say the world doesn't revolve around North Carolina?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 06:38:17 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 06:35:20 PM
Quote from: FrCorySticha on February 25, 2022, 06:20:36 PM
To duplicate stop signs at every rural exit would be an unnecessary waste of limited highway signage funds. I'd even argue that posting yield signs instead of stop signs at some of the "rural access" exits would be sufficient.
Well, this is a very rural area and it has dual stop signs.
https://goo.gl/maps/HhA2sjLkQJzffSPB9
And every other DOT should do the same because why?
To increase the visibility of seeing the stop sign.
Quote from: FrCorySticha on February 25, 2022, 06:39:50 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 06:35:20 PM
Quote from: FrCorySticha on February 25, 2022, 06:20:36 PM
To duplicate stop signs at every rural exit would be an unnecessary waste of limited highway signage funds. I'd even argue that posting yield signs instead of stop signs at some of the "rural access" exits would be sufficient.
Well, this is a very rural area and it has dual stop signs.
https://goo.gl/maps/HhA2sjLkQJzffSPB9
Your definition of "very rural" and my definition of "very rural" are two vastly different things. https://goo.gl/maps/ruRHq6Dm4VEVehvp6
I get it now. MUCH more rural and industrial.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 06:42:40 PM
You mean to say the world doesn't revolve around North Carolina?
Nope. It revolves around Montana. :D
Colorado, Kansas, and New Mexico have VERY rural areas and they use dual stop signs on the exit ramps.
Add South Dakota to the list!
https://goo.gl/maps/J7uQwi2u67ULGCBt5
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 06:43:35 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 06:38:17 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 06:35:20 PM
Quote from: FrCorySticha on February 25, 2022, 06:20:36 PM
To duplicate stop signs at every rural exit would be an unnecessary waste of limited highway signage funds. I'd even argue that posting yield signs instead of stop signs at some of the "rural access" exits would be sufficient.
Well, this is a very rural area and it has dual stop signs.
https://goo.gl/maps/HhA2sjLkQJzffSPB9
And every other DOT should do the same because why?
To increase the visibility of seeing the stop sign.
Quote from: FrCorySticha on February 25, 2022, 06:39:50 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 06:35:20 PM
Quote from: FrCorySticha on February 25, 2022, 06:20:36 PM
To duplicate stop signs at every rural exit would be an unnecessary waste of limited highway signage funds. I'd even argue that posting yield signs instead of stop signs at some of the "rural access" exits would be sufficient.
Well, this is a very rural area and it has dual stop signs.
So basically you don't have a good reason other than you see it in North Carolina a lot. How do you weigh the cost of extra signage given there is really no benefit to the traveling public.
Quote from: FrCorySticha on February 25, 2022, 06:45:13 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 06:42:40 PM
You mean to say the world doesn't revolve around North Carolina?
Nope. It revolves around Montana. :D
If only that was true... I really do dig solitude and 75 MPH surface highway speeds.
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 06:43:35 PM
I get it now. MUCH more rural and industrial nothing else out there but cows.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 06:47:24 PM
If only that was true... I really do dig solitude and 75 MPH surface highway speeds.
80
(ish) on the Interstates is better. I feel like I'm crawling when driving in states with 70 MPH speed limits.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 06:46:35 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 06:43:35 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 06:38:17 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 06:35:20 PM
Quote from: FrCorySticha on February 25, 2022, 06:20:36 PM
To duplicate stop signs at every rural exit would be an unnecessary waste of limited highway signage funds. I'd even argue that posting yield signs instead of stop signs at some of the "rural access" exits would be sufficient.
Well, this is a very rural area and it has dual stop signs.
https://goo.gl/maps/HhA2sjLkQJzffSPB9
And every other DOT should do the same because why?
To increase the visibility of seeing the stop sign.
Quote from: FrCorySticha on February 25, 2022, 06:39:50 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 06:35:20 PM
Quote from: FrCorySticha on February 25, 2022, 06:20:36 PM
To duplicate stop signs at every rural exit would be an unnecessary waste of limited highway signage funds. I'd even argue that posting yield signs instead of stop signs at some of the "rural access" exits would be sufficient.
Well, this is a very rural area and it has dual stop signs.
So basically you don't have a good reason other than you see it in North Carolina a lot. How do you weigh the cost of extra signage given there is really no benefit to the traveling public.
See reply #21. It will answer your question.
Totally doesn't, you haven't even broached explaining how the cost of extra signage is justified for what I assume is what you view as "enhanced safety." How much of a safety enhancement do think dual stop signs is going to bring? Have you actually bother to attempt to analyze if there is an actual safety benefit? Have you run a cost analysis on the price of extra stop signs on every freeway exit corridor?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 06:56:15 PM
Totally doesn't, you haven't even broached explaining how the cost of extra signage is justified for what I assume is what you view as "enhanced safety." How much of a safety enhancement do think dual stop signs is going to bring? Have you actually bother to attempt to analyze if there is an actual safety benefit? Have you run a cost analysis on the price of extra stop signs on every freeway exit corridor?
It will be more visible to the eyes if a truck or a bus is parked to the side and it will come to the point that you can't see the far right stop sign! A stop sign is $100. And for two it's $200. So that extra $100 would be wasted for just unnecessary shit? I guess so... And yes I ran a cost analysis. That would probably be trillions.
I guess you never heard of payroll hours and installation trip costs? Have you analyzed how many exits these installs would need to he done at so you can request a funding estimate?
Also, where are your study results which illustrate one stop sign isn't sufficient? Do you have actual accounts of the lack of dual stop signs on freeway exits contributing to accidents?
Given you threw out "trillions" would it not be fair to say you shot from the hip and didn't really think this thread through as a general topic?
Seems like a personal problem to me
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:06:03 PM
I guess you never heard of payroll hours and installation trip costs? Have you analyzed how many exits these installs would need to he done at so you can request a funding estimate?
No? A installation trip cost would be around $65-$125. Yes, there's roughly 3,000 interchanges that have stop signs.
So 4,000 x 200 = $800,000. That ain't too much to be honest.
Quote from: skluth on February 25, 2022, 07:08:58 PM
Seems like a personal problem to me
To have one or both stop signs at each exit ramp?
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 07:09:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:06:03 PM
I guess you never heard of payroll hours and installation trip costs? Have you analyzed how many exits these installs would need to he done at so you can request a funding estimate?
No? A installation trip cost would be around $65-$125. Yes, there's roughly 3,000 interchanges that have stop signs.
So 4,000 x 200 = $800,000. That ain't too much to be honest.
But you have to request funding for this hypothetical scenario. Is the person/people you hypothetically going to agree with your funding justification given you can't really illustrate a benefit clearly?
Also, you're likely way low on those labor and trip estimates. You aren't far off the cost of a 36x36 reflective stop sign for what it's worth.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:06:03 PM
Also, where are your study results which illustrate one stop sign isn't sufficient? Do you have actual accounts of the lack of dual stop signs on freeway exits contributing to accidents?
Given you threw out "trillions" would it not be fair to say you shot from the hip and didn't really think this thread through as a general topic?
http://www.trafficsign.us/signcost.html And no I don't have any accounts of the lack of dual stop signs at exits which contribute to exits. But, I have seen wrong-way crashes before. But that's off-topic
Well. maybe not trillions. It's closer to half a million.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:12:17 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 07:09:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:06:03 PM
I guess you never heard of payroll hours and installation trip costs? Have you analyzed how many exits these installs would need to he done at so you can request a funding estimate?
No? A installation trip cost would be around $65-$125. Yes, there's roughly 3,000 interchanges that have stop signs.
So 4,000 x 200 = $800,000. That ain't too much to be honest.
But you have to request funding for this hypothetical scenario. Is the person/people you hypothetically going to agree with your funding justification given you can't really illustrate a benefit clearly?
No. Not at all.
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 07:12:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:06:03 PM
Also, where are your study results which illustrate one stop sign isn't sufficient? Do you have actual accounts of the lack of dual stop signs on freeway exits contributing to accidents?
Given you threw out "trillions" would it not be fair to say you shot from the hip and didn't really think this thread through as a general topic?
http://www.trafficsign.us/signcost.html And no I don't have any accounts of the lack of dual stop signs at exits which contribute to exits. But, I have seen wrong-way crashes before. But that's off-topic
Well. maybe not trillions. It's closer to half a million.
One off accidents at specific locations isn't necessarily causality for taking a blanket measure. These are the things you probably ought be considering before you come up threads like this, this isn't the fictional board. There are a ton of DOT workers and government employees on this forum that will poke holes in financially wasteful concepts.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:17:33 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 07:12:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:06:03 PM
Also, where are your study results which illustrate one stop sign isn't sufficient? Do you have actual accounts of the lack of dual stop signs on freeway exits contributing to accidents?
Given you threw out "trillions" would it not be fair to say you shot from the hip and didn't really think this thread through as a general topic?
http://www.trafficsign.us/signcost.html And no I don't have any accounts of the lack of dual stop signs at exits which contribute to exits. But, I have seen wrong-way crashes before. But that's off-topic
Well. maybe not trillions. It's closer to half a million.
One off accidents at specific locations isn't necessarily causality for taking a blanket measure. These are the things you probably ought be considering before you come up threads like this, this isn't the fictional board. There are a ton of DOT workers and government employees on this forum that will poke holes in financially wasteful concepts.
Well, half of the DOTs agree and half don't.
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 07:18:52 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:17:33 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 07:12:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:06:03 PM
Also, where are your study results which illustrate one stop sign isn't sufficient? Do you have actual accounts of the lack of dual stop signs on freeway exits contributing to accidents?
Given you threw out "trillions" would it not be fair to say you shot from the hip and didn't really think this thread through as a general topic?
http://www.trafficsign.us/signcost.html And no I don't have any accounts of the lack of dual stop signs at exits which contribute to exits. But, I have seen wrong-way crashes before. But that's off-topic
Well. maybe not trillions. It's closer to half a million.
One off accidents at specific locations isn't necessarily causality for taking a blanket measure. These are the things you probably ought be considering before you come up threads like this, this isn't the fictional board. There are a ton of DOT workers and government employees on this forum that will poke holes in financially wasteful concepts.
Well, half of the DOTs agree and half don't.
You also haven't sampled the full set of exits you citing either. Are you fully confident that every single exit or the majority of them in the states you are citing are dual stop signed as you say?
So Utah's the furthest west state tolbs have posted a GSV link from now? Congrats for branching out of your NC bubble :clap: :clap: :clap:
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:20:40 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 07:18:52 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:17:33 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 07:12:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:06:03 PM
Also, where are your study results which illustrate one stop sign isn't sufficient? Do you have actual accounts of the lack of dual stop signs on freeway exits contributing to accidents?
Given you threw out "trillions" would it not be fair to say you shot from the hip and didn't really think this thread through as a general topic?
http://www.trafficsign.us/signcost.html And no I don't have any accounts of the lack of dual stop signs at exits which contribute to exits. But, I have seen wrong-way crashes before. But that's off-topic
Well. maybe not trillions. It's closer to half a million.
One off accidents at specific locations isn't necessarily causality for taking a blanket measure. These are the things you probably ought be considering before you come up threads like this, this isn't the fictional board. There are a ton of DOT workers and government employees on this forum that will poke holes in financially wasteful concepts.
Well, half of the DOTs agree and half don't.
You also haven't sampled the full set of exits you citing either. Are you fully confident that every single exit or the majority of them in the states you are citing are dual stop signed as you say?
Well, given in the states that I mentioned, Colorado, South Dakota, New Mexico, and Kansas used dual stop signed exit ramps. Most of them have them, but all of them might not. That's what I sample. I've looked at the Street View MANY times in those states and most of the exits there are dial stop signed.
Quote from: SkyPesos on February 25, 2022, 07:24:19 PM
So Utah's the furthest west state tolbs have posted a GSV link from now? Congrats for branching out of your NC bubble :clap: :clap: :clap:
Yes sir, I post stuff from other states if I see something interesting from them.
I tried to look in New Hampshire and Vermont for yield only but didn't find any with a quick look. Are they not rural enough?
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 07:24:38 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:20:40 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 07:18:52 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:17:33 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 07:12:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:06:03 PM
Also, where are your study results which illustrate one stop sign isn't sufficient? Do you have actual accounts of the lack of dual stop signs on freeway exits contributing to accidents?
Given you threw out "trillions" would it not be fair to say you shot from the hip and didn't really think this thread through as a general topic?
http://www.trafficsign.us/signcost.html And no I don't have any accounts of the lack of dual stop signs at exits which contribute to exits. But, I have seen wrong-way crashes before. But that's off-topic
Well. maybe not trillions. It's closer to half a million.
One off accidents at specific locations isn't necessarily causality for taking a blanket measure. These are the things you probably ought be considering before you come up threads like this, this isn't the fictional board. There are a ton of DOT workers and government employees on this forum that will poke holes in financially wasteful concepts.
Well, half of the DOTs agree and half don't.
You also haven't sampled the full set of exits you citing either. Are you fully confident that every single exit or the majority of them in the states you are citing are dual stop signed as you say?
Well, given in the states that I mentioned, Colorado, South Dakota, New Mexico, and Kansas used dual stop signed exit ramps. Most of them have them, but all of them might not. That's what I sample. I've looked at the Street View MANY times in those states and most of the exits there are dial stop signed.
You gave a handful of examples, that's hardly a consensus that would qualify as an actual field survey.
Is it hard to admit that you just took the FritzOwl rationale of "I think this is needed" and just call it a day?
Quote from: 1 on February 25, 2022, 07:28:25 PM
I tried to look in New Hampshire and Vermont for yield only but didn't find any with a quick look. Are they not rural enough?
Vermont is a very rural state with most residents siding in Burlington. New Hampshire...slightly different story but I don't know what you mean by "yield only".
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:30:08 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 07:24:38 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:20:40 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 07:18:52 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:17:33 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 07:12:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:06:03 PM
Also, where are your study results which illustrate one stop sign isn't sufficient? Do you have actual accounts of the lack of dual stop signs on freeway exits contributing to accidents?
Given you threw out "trillions" would it not be fair to say you shot from the hip and didn't really think this thread through as a general topic?
http://www.trafficsign.us/signcost.html And no I don't have any accounts of the lack of dual stop signs at exits which contribute to exits. But, I have seen wrong-way crashes before. But that's off-topic
Well. maybe not trillions. It's closer to half a million.
One off accidents at specific locations isn't necessarily causality for taking a blanket measure. These are the things you probably ought be considering before you come up threads like this, this isn't the fictional board. There are a ton of DOT workers and government employees on this forum that will poke holes in financially wasteful concepts.
Well, half of the DOTs agree and half don't.
You also haven't sampled the full set of exits you citing either. Are you fully confident that every single exit or the majority of them in the states you are citing are dual stop signed as you say?
Well, given in the states that I mentioned, Colorado, South Dakota, New Mexico, and Kansas used dual stop signed exit ramps. Most of them have them, but all of them might not. That's what I sample. I've looked at the Street View MANY times in those states and most of the exits there are dial stop signed.
You gave a handful of examples, that's hardly a consensus that would qualify as an actual field survey.
Is it hard to admit that you just took the FritzOwl rationale of "I think this is needed" and just call it a day?
Thank you, and I guess, kind of. I'm not a FritzOwl person that wants interstates everywhere though...
Trashiest spam thread ever.
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 07:09:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:06:03 PM
I guess you never heard of payroll hours and installation trip costs? Have you analyzed how many exits these installs would need to he done at so you can request a funding estimate?
No? A installation trip cost would be around $65-$125. Yes, there's roughly 3,000 interchanges that have stop signs.
So 4,000 x 200 = $800,000. That ain't too much to be honest.
$125 seems really low. Oklahoma DOT workers appear to make somewhere in the $17-$19/hour range. So for a crew of, say, three people to do a four-hour job, it would be $17 × 4 × 3 = $204. (Remember, they have to be paid to go to the warehouse to pick up the sign, travel to the install location, do the install, and travel back.) And I imagine in coastal states it would be more expensive due to higher wages.
Gas for the truck is an added expense.
I think the OP must have a boatload of stop signs to sell and he is creating a demand for them? Or maybe a shill for the signpost lobby?
Either way, I don't see this affecting safety all that much, if at all. This would be even less impactful in the rural areas shown in the examples above.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 25, 2022, 09:19:29 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 07:09:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 07:06:03 PM
I guess you never heard of payroll hours and installation trip costs? Have you analyzed how many exits these installs would need to he done at so you can request a funding estimate?
No? A installation trip cost would be around $65-$125. Yes, there's roughly 3,000 interchanges that have stop signs.
So 4,000 x 200 = $800,000. That ain't too much to be honest.
$125 seems really low. Oklahoma DOT workers appear to make somewhere in the $17-$19/hour range. So for a crew of, say, three people to do a four-hour job, it would be $17 × 4 × 3 = $204. (Remember, they have to be paid to go to the warehouse to pick up the sign, travel to the install location, do the install, and travel back.) And I imagine in coastal states it would be more expensive due to higher wages.
Gas for the truck is an added expense.
Don't forget the cost of the signs and posts, which is what the whole exercise is about.
tolbs17 is the Donald Trump of roads -- no credentials but he alone is the self-appointed expert on everything.
Give tolbs a break. NC has money to slap Interstate signs all over the place, so they probably slap up extra stop signs too. He can't help it if he's from a slap-happy place.
:poke:
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 07:10:24 PM
Quote from: skluth on February 25, 2022, 07:08:58 PM
Seems like a personal problem to me
To have one or both stop signs at each exit ramp?
To care either way. If there's one stop sign, great. If there is more than one sign, that's great too. I don't care as long there is at least one stop sign. I don't see the point of more than one unless there's a serious problem locally with sign theft or vandalism, but I'm not going to get worked up about one vs >1 sign.
I'm fine with Clearview font signs too despite the heartburn it causes some posters here.
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 25, 2022, 05:15:34 PM
I know Utah and Missouri are like that. All exit ramps should have stop signs on both sides.
https://goo.gl/maps/FtgxFs5iwoP1fuJN9
Out of the bazillion exit ramps in Utah, you pick
this one to get annoyed it doesn't have two stop signs? I'd be surprised if the number of cars that use that ramp in a day is two digits long. There's literally no reason to put up more than one stop sign unless there's some extenuating factor like a very high crash rate or weird geometry or sign theft or something else of the sort.
I am actually fine with having two stop signs at an exit ramp, since in most cases, it's an additional reminder that you have to stop and cross traffic doesn't. Most interchanges in New York are busy enough for signals, but those that don't have signals usually have two stop signs: I-390 Exit 6 (https://goo.gl/maps/jbJ9PburUsJR5Z4M8) and I-190 Exit 23 (https://goo.gl/maps/cwYoNLTuqbtARysf6) before it was converted to a much needed signal a couple of years ago. However, counter examples can be found, like I-81 at NY 104 (https://goo.gl/maps/GtdPQRqrEB44ppz86), where the geometry of the interchange is such that a second stop sign wouldn't serve much purpose.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 06:47:24 PM
Quote from: FrCorySticha on February 25, 2022, 06:45:13 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 25, 2022, 06:42:40 PM
You mean to say the world doesn't revolve around North Carolina?
Nope. It revolves around Montana. :D
If only that was true... I really do dig solitude and 75 MPH surface highway speeds.
I believe 70 mph is the highest on surface roads, then 80 mph on the interstates.
IIRC, Texas, New Mexico, and Nevada are the only examples with 75 mph speed limits on surface roads.
And Texas is the only one on two-lane roads.
Isn't this why there are yield signs?
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 27, 2022, 01:21:02 AM
I believe 70 mph is the highest on surface roads, then 80 mph on the interstates.
IIRC, Texas, New Mexico, and Nevada are the only examples with 75 mph speed limits on surface roads.
And Texas is the only one on two-lane roads.
Yes, most two-lane roads are 70 MPH speed limits and most Interstates are 80 MPH. However, there's a difference between speed limits and what people actually do. It's not uncommon to see people doing 75 on two-lanes.
So, here's a GSV dump of stop signs at the end of ramps along I-295 in NJ:
Exit 2 B-C, NB: https://goo.gl/maps/BbKUqa6gCC5EfkfC6
Exit 7, NB: https://goo.gl/maps/4fS7iY6GHkwM4ybC6
Exit 7, SB: https://goo.gl/maps/2de9rPStbmG7dokFA
Exit 23, SB: https://goo.gl/maps/eWra85hNdepfePQA8
Exit 10, NB: https://goo.gl/maps/DR5zyNpXcRwYug7s8
Exit 14, NB: https://goo.gl/maps/6NXbvXM8b6bE37me6
Exit 14, SB: https://goo.gl/maps/QrvjRXgpCdk3QkqY8
Exit 21, NB: https://goo.gl/maps/rWd6uz1tPKm7hnm9A
The conclusion in this sample area: NJDOT is inconsistent, regardless of lane wide, existence of porkchop medians, etc.
Exit 4, NB: https://goo.gl/maps/bKa1xU21Cd6iTpJP7 . Fun fact: I knocked over the right stop sign while plowing a number of years back by trying to push a mound of snow off the pavement. Broke the bolts holding the main U post to the breakaway post in the ground. Oops. Told the boss so they could send a few guys out after the storm was over to fix it.
Btw, older exit ramps used to have stop signs in the middle and on the right side.
https://goo.gl/maps/obsamxjK96aMcVy67
The real question is why aren't there rumble strips at the bottom of the ramp, a traffic calming curb, a traffic enforcement camera, and a third stop sign in the middle of the lane you have to go around? Unless you agree these should also be installed, you're basically advocating mass death on the highways.
Also, posting a speed limit greater than 30 mph on any road or highway is akin to asking anyone driving on that road to stick a revolver to their head and continuously play Russian roulette.
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 27, 2022, 01:21:02 AM
I believe 70 mph is the highest on surface roads, then 80 mph on the interstates.
IIRC, Texas, New Mexico, and Nevada are the only examples with 75 mph speed limits on surface roads.
And Texas is the only one on two-lane roads.
For Nevada, the highest speed limit you'll see on two-lane highways or four-lane divided highways is 70mph. The only 75mph speed limits posted in Nevada are on Interstate highways, specifically on I-15 north of Las Vegas and on the parts of I-80 east of Fernley that aren't already set at 80mph (or 65mph, as in the vicinity of Elko).
Quote from: roadfro on March 01, 2022, 12:03:24 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 27, 2022, 01:21:02 AM
I believe 70 mph is the highest on surface roads, then 80 mph on the interstates.
IIRC, Texas, New Mexico, and Nevada are the only examples with 75 mph speed limits on surface roads.
And Texas is the only one on two-lane roads.
For Nevada, the highest speed limit you'll see on two-lane highways or four-lane divided highways is 70mph. The only 75mph speed limits posted in Nevada are on Interstate highways, specifically on I-15 north of Las Vegas and on the parts of I-80 east of Fernley that aren't already set at 80mph (or 65mph, as in the vicinity of Elko).
Is the US 95 divided highway south of Searchlight not signed at 75 mph (https://goo.gl/maps/KQpUyeyFqVTxDom29) anymore?
Quote from: US 89 on March 01, 2022, 12:05:59 PM
Quote from: roadfro on March 01, 2022, 12:03:24 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 27, 2022, 01:21:02 AM
I believe 70 mph is the highest on surface roads, then 80 mph on the interstates.
IIRC, Texas, New Mexico, and Nevada are the only examples with 75 mph speed limits on surface roads.
And Texas is the only one on two-lane roads.
For Nevada, the highest speed limit you'll see on two-lane highways or four-lane divided highways is 70mph. The only 75mph speed limits posted in Nevada are on Interstate highways, specifically on I-15 north of Las Vegas and on the parts of I-80 east of Fernley that aren't already set at 80mph (or 65mph, as in the vicinity of Elko).
Is the US 95 divided highway south of Searchlight not signed at 75 mph (https://goo.gl/maps/KQpUyeyFqVTxDom29) anymore?
Been a while since I've been out that way.
I had looked at NDOT's Speed Limit map from 2019 to confirm my assertion, and it indicated that stretch was signed at 70. (I'm on mobile right now, or I'd link to it)
^ That 2021 Street View link would seem to say otherwise.