News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

Why does I-76 end at I-295? why not extend it along NJ 42?

Started by Buummu, April 26, 2011, 08:16:18 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Odysseus

One simple solution would be to make the Route 42 part of the Freeway and the Atlantic City Expressway NJ State Route 76. The whole thing wouldn't be an interstate, but at least it would all have the same route number, and it would all be marked East/West.

California continues Interstate numbers as state routes in a bunch of different places.


jwolfer

Quote from: Odysseus on August 06, 2011, 07:10:59 PM
One simple solution would be to make the Route 42 part of the Freeway and the Atlantic City Expressway NJ State Route 76. The whole thing wouldn't be an interstate, but at least it would all have the same route number, and it would all be marked East/West.

California continues Interstate numbers as state routes in a bunch of different places.
NJ would see that as duplicate numbers.  I think NJ 138 should be NJ 195.  But alas its not

froggie

QuoteOne instance in this general area was way back when the PA Turnpike NE Extension was PA Route 9, and they promoted one of the reasons to change it to I-476 was to encourage truck traffic to use the pike.

Well there were other reasons for that change.  Like at the time, only rural Interstates could be signed at 65 MPH.  This is also the reason why the East-West Tollway in Illinois changed from IL 5 to I-88.

QuoteCalifornia continues Interstate numbers as state routes in a bunch of different places.

As does New York (481, 690, 390, etc).

Alps

Quote from: jwolfer on August 12, 2011, 03:28:02 PM
Quote from: Odysseus on August 06, 2011, 07:10:59 PM
One simple solution would be to make the Route 42 part of the Freeway and the Atlantic City Expressway NJ State Route 76. The whole thing wouldn't be an interstate, but at least it would all have the same route number, and it would all be marked East/West.

California continues Interstate numbers as state routes in a bunch of different places.
NJ would see that as duplicate numbers.  I think NJ 138 should be NJ 195.  But alas its not

I like 138 because it's numbered as part of 38. Same reason I like 120.

Michael in Philly

Quote from: Steve on August 12, 2011, 09:48:07 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on August 12, 2011, 03:28:02 PM
Quote from: Odysseus on August 06, 2011, 07:10:59 PM
One simple solution would be to make the Route 42 part of the Freeway and the Atlantic City Expressway NJ State Route 76. The whole thing wouldn't be an interstate, but at least it would all have the same route number, and it would all be marked East/West.

California continues Interstate numbers as state routes in a bunch of different places.
NJ would see that as duplicate numbers.  I think NJ 138 should be NJ 195.  But alas its not

I like 138 because it's numbered as part of 38. Same reason I like 120.

And New Jersey does a lot of that (122...).  But I don't know if a 100-series number works for 50 miles of expressway.  (For those who don't know, as Steve presumably does, this series is mostly used for old alignments that the state wants to maintain in the state system.  122 is the former Alt. US 22 in Phillipsburg; 183 is a short segment formerly part of US 206, which now bypasses the towns it runs through; 179 likewise is an old alignment of US 202 in an area where 202's now expressway....  They're mostly fairly short.)
RIP Dad 1924-2012.

Brandon

Quote from: froggie on August 12, 2011, 06:52:54 PM
QuoteOne instance in this general area was way back when the PA Turnpike NE Extension was PA Route 9, and they promoted one of the reasons to change it to I-476 was to encourage truck traffic to use the pike.

Well there were other reasons for that change.  Like at the time, only rural Interstates could be signed at 65 MPH.  This is also the reason why the East-West Tollway in Illinois changed from IL 5 to I-88.

However, I-476 was extended after the law was dumped.  As such, that's not a reason at all for the change (as it was for I-88 back in the bad old NMSL days).
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

Lightning Strike

The only issue I have with that "interchange" is how the layout is done. Living in NJ for 15 years, the US130 on ramp to I-76/I-295 used to be a bigger nightmare some time ago (timing is a little fuzzy) but now it's just a bad headache. I'd like to see that cleaned up a little bit better since crossing over 5 lanes of traffic in about 1/4-1/2 mile is treacherous on that stretch.

TXtoNJ

Quote from: Michael in Philly on August 12, 2011, 10:36:52 PM
And New Jersey does a lot of that (122...).

The best is the former US 1-9 business becoming NJ 139 (i.e. NJ 1&9)

SteveG1988

Quote from: Lightning Strike on August 15, 2011, 04:45:22 PM
The only issue I have with that "interchange" is how the layout is done. Living in NJ for 15 years, the US130 on ramp to I-76/I-295 used to be a bigger nightmare some time ago (timing is a little fuzzy) but now it's just a bad headache. I'd like to see that cleaned up a little bit better since crossing over 5 lanes of traffic in about 1/4-1/2 mile is treacherous on that stretch.

That entire interchange is being redesegined.

http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/works/studies/rt295/

The Future I-295/I-76/NJ42 Interchange.
Roads Clinched

I55,I82,I84(E&W)I88(W),I87(N),I81,I64,I74(W),I72,I57,I24,I65,I59,I12,I71,I77,I76(E&W),I70,I79,I85,I86(W),I27,I16,I97,I96,I43,I41,

Michael in Philly

While they're at it, how about connecting 42 to the Turnpike?  Or would that make too much sense?
RIP Dad 1924-2012.

Lightning Strike

#35
I don't think they will ever add an interchange there, just because of the fact that exit 3, Route 168 Black Horse Pike is nearby. It might add to the congestion if they try to add another exit that close, but who knows  :-/ *shrug*

*edit*: getting from NJ 42 to NJ 168 to get on the turnpike, is not 100% driver-friendly to get to imo, so I would like to see a better exit.

SteveG1988

I consider the link between I-76/NJ42 and the NJTP to be I-295. Take it north to I-195 and get on at NJTP exit 7 if you are going north. If you are going south, just stay on 295 itself as it heads to the same destination as the turnpike itself. Or if you want to really head onto the NJTP itself, take I-295 upto NJ73 and get on there.
Roads Clinched

I55,I82,I84(E&W)I88(W),I87(N),I81,I64,I74(W),I72,I57,I24,I65,I59,I12,I71,I77,I76(E&W),I70,I79,I85,I86(W),I27,I16,I97,I96,I43,I41,

Alps

Quote from: Michael in Philly on August 16, 2011, 02:49:20 PM
While they're at it, how about connecting 42 to the Turnpike?  Or would that make too much sense?
Separate project because it would be paid for by the Tpk, as opposed to DOT/Feds. Also, it's over a mile south, beyond the Creek Rd. interchange. NJTA has looked into it, it would involve wetlands impacts in the NE quadrant of the crossing, and obviously would replace the existing Exit 3. More likely is an upgrade to Benigno Blvd., possibly up-posting to 35 mph+, to directly connect Exit 3 on the Tpk to Exit 14 on 42.

NJRoadfan

Quote from: SteveG1988 on August 16, 2011, 03:57:18 PM
I consider the link between I-76/NJ42 and the NJTP to be I-295. Take it north to I-195 and get on at NJTP exit 7 if you are going north. If you are going south, just stay on 295 itself as it heads to the same destination as the turnpike itself. Or if you want to really head onto the NJTP itself, take I-295 upto NJ73 and get on there.

During rush hour, particularly if one is heading south its quicker to stay on the NJTP to Exit 3 as I-295 gets pretty busy. I usually make the left onto Browning Rd. and take that to Creek Rd.

froggie

QuoteHowever, I-476 was extended after the law was dumped.

According to Kurumi, approval for extending I-476 was granted in April 1995.  The law dumping NMSL wasn't signed until late that November.

Brandon

Quote from: froggie on August 16, 2011, 08:31:38 PM
QuoteHowever, I-476 was extended after the law was dumped.

According to Kurumi, approval for extending I-476 was granted in April 1995.  The law dumping NMSL wasn't signed until late that November.


However, IIRC, the part restricting 65mph to interstates only was gone by then.  I know that many non-interstate freeways in other states were 65mph by this time.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

PAHighways

#41
Quote from: Brandon on August 17, 2011, 07:41:43 AM
Quote from: froggie on August 16, 2011, 08:31:38 PM
QuoteHowever, I-476 was extended after the law was dumped.

According to Kurumi, approval for extending I-476 was granted in April 1995.  The law dumping NMSL wasn't signed until late that November.


However, IIRC, the part restricting 65mph to interstates only was gone by then.  I know that many non-interstate freeways in other states were 65mph by this time.

Pennsylvania did not raise the maximum speed limit to 65 until July 13, 1995, but the I-476 designation wasn't officially extended until November 1, 1996.

sammack



One instance in this general area was way back when the PA Turnpike NE Extension was PA Route 9, and they promoted one of the reasons to change it to I-476 was to encourage truck traffic to use the pike.
[/quote]


Some truth here.  But I think you will find, trucks to/from Philly/S Jersey and OH and the Upper Midwest already using the NE Ext and avoiding the main line Tpk tolls.  Even from PGH it is only about 30 miles longer  then the main line Tpk

PHLBOS

Quote from: SteveG1988 on August 01, 2011, 09:00:27 AM
I wonder how many people think its all the same road, 76/42/ACE. Its pretty seamless going from one to the other.
The news & traffic reporters ALWAYS refer to the Jersey stretch of I-76 as "Route 42" (much like New England news and traffic reporters still refer segments of I-95 and I-93 near Boston as 'Route 128').  As far as they're concerned I-76 does NOT exist in NJ.

Quote from: sammack on August 19, 2011, 09:59:54 PMOne instance in this general area was way back when the PA Turnpike NE Extension was PA Route 9, and they promoted one of the reasons to change it to I-476 was to encourage truck traffic to use the pike.
Personal take: Traffic along the NE Extension was bound to pick up once the I-476 Mid-County connection opened in 1992.  I'm surprised that the NE Extension didn't receive the I-476 designation earlier than it did... before the Blue Route connection was made.

IMHO, its too bad the widening project only goes as far as Lansdale (Exit 31); it really should be widened all the way up to the Lehigh Valley (Exit 56) interchange.  It's the only continuous highway linking the Delaware Valley to the Lehigh valley regions.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

KEVIN_224

@PHLBOS: The southern end of MA Route 128 is at the junction of I-93/I-95/US 1 in Canton, MA. MA Route 128 no longer exists on I-93/US 1 from there to the MA Route 3 split in Braintree.

Alps

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on February 07, 2012, 06:58:24 PM
@PHLBOS: The southern end of MA Route 128 is at the junction of I-93/I-95/US 1 in Canton, MA. MA Route 128 no longer exists on I-93/US 1 from there to the MA Route 3 split in Braintree.
Yes, but the entire thing is still called 128.

KEVIN_224

#46
The traffic people might still call it that once in a while. However, I was in this area on January 15th. Not one sign from the MA Route 3 split in Braintree to the I-95 junction in Canton said "128". There may have been one that read "I-93 South to I-95" and a "TO 128" sign with an arrow. To quote what it said at WikiPedia:

The south end of Route 128 is in Canton, where Interstate 95 heads south toward Providence, Rhode Island, just east of the Northeast Corridor's Route 128 Station. Common usage, as well as signs until 1997, continues Route 128 east along the first 7 miles (11 km) of Interstate 93 to the Braintree Split in Braintree, where I-93 turns north with Route 3 toward downtown Boston. This section of former Route 128 serves as the north end of Route 24 to Fall River. (Until 1965, Route 128 continued further, southeast along Route 3 and roughly north on Route 228 to Hull).

Getting back to I-76, it was sure confusing the last time I was at its eastern terminus in Camden. Usually, once I'm off of the Ben Franklin Bridge (US Route 30/I-676), I'll just head straight towards US Route 30 East and then connect to NJ Route 38 (Kaighn Avenue) in the Pennsauken area.

NE2

Not that Wikipedia is particularly reliable in these matters, but check the bit about "common usage".
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

KEVIN_224

Seeing as I already won't use "128" by itself like the locals do, and that it's not signed as such on that stretch anymore, I won't call it that. I won't even use "Boston Post Road" in Fairfield County, CT. I will only call it US Route 1 or "Route 1".

Sorry for straying off of topic. OK...back to southern New Jersey now! :)

PHLBOS

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on February 07, 2012, 06:58:24 PM
@PHLBOS: The southern end of MA Route 128 is at the junction of I-93/I-95/US 1 in Canton, MA. MA Route 128 no longer exists on I-93/US 1 from there to the MA Route 3 split in Braintree.
I am VERY WELL AWARE OF THAT, thank you.  I spent my first 24-1/2 years of my life residing in the Bay State and all my family still lives there.  I moved out about a year after US 1 south of Boston was thrown on I-93 & 95 and 128 was truncated from Braintree to Canton.  As a kid, I even remember when 128 from Gloucester to Braintree was just that, 128.

But listen to ANY of the news and traffic reporters in the Boston area (be it radio or TV) and they will STILL refer to that stretch of I-93 as Route 128.  

Don't believe me, turn on WBZ radio (AM 1030) for proof; they usually do traffic on the 3s.

Anyway, back to New Jersey:
Quote from: Odysseus on August 06, 2011, 07:10:59 PM
One simple solution would be to make the Route 42 part of the Freeway and the Atlantic City Expressway NJ State Route 76. The whole thing wouldn't be an interstate, but at least it would all have the same route number, and it would all be marked East/West.
That probably would make the most sense; thereby making the whole North-South Freeway (that's what the street name is) and the AC X-way all one number would be more easier to expalin to an out-of-towner.
GPS does NOT equal GOD



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.