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Dead Malls

Started by The Premier, January 25, 2011, 05:38:18 PM

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GCrites

People always say that about Florence. I was working there in 2008 and people kept asking me if it was going to close just because the parent company's share price went down.


kenarmy

Quote from: golden eagle on January 25, 2011, 11:21:23 PM
The old Jackson Mall has now been converted into a medical complex known as the Jackson Medical Mall. At one time, the Department of Defense was look at the mall for a huge project that would've created 7,000 jobs here during the Clinton administration, but the idea was eventually scrapped. Another dying mall is across town at Metrocenter, but there are plans to revive it as a mixed-used development. In fact, the city of Jackson recently announced that a couple of city agencies will move into the space once occupied by Belk.

This aged terribly for metrocenter. It received a new owner in 2018/9 and everything was supposed to be good again, but with covid it got pushed back and I don't think anything will happen in the near future. Even some of the city offices moved out.. Oh and the new owner got convicted of fraud  :bigass: I guess I'll just continue to use Northpark and the outlets.
Just a reminder that US 6, 49, 50, and 98 are superior to your fave routes :)


EXTEND 206 SO IT CAN MEET ITS PARENT.

ErmineNotyours

Quote from: SkyPesos on February 09, 2021, 01:44:41 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 09, 2021, 01:20:19 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 09, 2021, 09:47:35 AM
Looks like Paradise Valley Mall in northeast Phoenix might soon be dead with only JCPenney and Costco as its anchors.  Surprisingly the area is affluent and the surrounding area is doing well.  Apparently Macerich failed to invest in the mall, and competition from other nearby malls such as Desert Ridge, Scottsdale Quarter, and Kierland Commons as well as Macerich's continued investment into Scottsdale Fashion Square is what hurt the mall.

I don't know if I've ever seen Costco as an anchor. Interesting!
Costco as an anchor is also new to me. Closest I've seen are a Costco across the street from both Easton and Polaris malls in Columbus.

The Supermall of Auburn, Washington had Sam's Club as an anchor.  It replaced the Incredible Universe that opened a year before the mall.  Later all Sam's Clubs left the area (hard to compete on Costco's home turf) and the mall has changed its name to the Outlet Collection.

Flint1979

The Costco is de-attached from the mall. I just looked at it on GSV and it's indeed not attached to the mall but on wikipedia it's considered an anchor to the mall.

hotdogPi

Simon's most profitable mall per square foot in 2015 in the entire country, the Mall at Rockingham Park in Salem NH, has two of its five anchors empty (although one of them had its last day on December 29 and might not have had enough time to be replaced). The mall's nowhere near dead, but if it's supposed to be the best (profit-wise) of all Simon malls...
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

SectorZ

Quote from: 1 on February 12, 2021, 08:17:06 AM
Simon's most profitable mall per square foot in 2015 in the entire country, the Mall at Rockingham Park in Salem NH, has two of its five anchors empty (although one of them had its last day on December 29 and might not have had enough time to be replaced). The mall's nowhere near dead, but if it's supposed to be the best (profit-wise) of all Simon malls...

Never knew that about the profitability, but it doesn't surprise me. I went up the Tuesday after Christmas (the day Lord & Taylor closed), and at noontime the mall looked like a Saturday afternoon before Christmas in non-pandemic times. The Pheasant Lane in Nashua by comparison has been much quieter.

It will be interesting to see how all the competing new retail on the former dogtrack land is going to affect it.

GCrites

I don't picture New Hampshire being over-malled in the way places like Ohio and Illinois were. That's probably helping the profitability.

briantroutman

Quote from: GCrites80s on February 12, 2021, 12:16:10 PM
I don't picture New Hampshire being over-malled in the way places like Ohio and Illinois were. That's probably helping the profitability.

I think New Hampshire having a sales tax rate of 0% has more than a little to do with it.

jakeroot

Quote from: 1 on February 12, 2021, 08:17:06 AM
Simon's most profitable mall per square foot in 2015 in the entire country, the Mall at Rockingham Park in Salem NH, has two of its five anchors empty (although one of them had its last day on December 29 and might not have had enough time to be replaced). The mall's nowhere near dead, but if it's supposed to be the best (profit-wise) of all Simon malls...

The Tacoma Mall, owned by Simon, seems pretty active to me. All four of its anchors are in-use. There was a fifth anchor, Sears, but it was demolished; they are building a new outdoor part of the mall and a theatre/cinema in its place.

How did you get your numbers?

hotdogPi

Quote from: jakeroot on February 12, 2021, 01:55:43 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 12, 2021, 08:17:06 AM
Simon's most profitable mall per square foot in 2015 in the entire country, the Mall at Rockingham Park in Salem NH, has two of its five anchors empty (although one of them had its last day on December 29 and might not have had enough time to be replaced). The mall's nowhere near dead, but if it's supposed to be the best (profit-wise) of all Simon malls...

The Tacoma Mall, owned by Simon, seems pretty active to me. All four of its anchors are in-use. There was a fifth anchor, Sears, but it was demolished; they are building a new outdoor part of the mall and a theatre/cinema in its place.

How did you get your numbers?

Sales data is from the Wikipedia article on the mall. Closing date is because I was there on both the 29th and the 30th.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

SkyPesos

Kind of wondering, how are Seattle area malls doing in general? I've been to Bellevue Square, Southcenter and University Village about 2 years ago, and those three look like they're doing well, at least pre-covid. Haven't been to Alderwood, but it looks fine too, besides the vacant former Sears spot. For dying malls, I know the Northgate area is getting redeveloped with the light rail extension. How about the other malls that I didn't mention in the Seattle area?

jakeroot

Quote from: SkyPesos on February 12, 2021, 02:12:22 PM
Kind of wondering, how are Seattle area malls doing in general? I've been to Bellevue Square, Southcenter and University Village about 2 years ago, and those three look like they're doing well, at least pre-covid. Haven't been to Alderwood, but it looks fine too, besides the vacant former Sears spot. For dying malls, I know the Northgate area is getting redeveloped with the light rail extension. How about the other malls that I didn't mention in the Seattle area?

Generally speaking, quite well. Especially given WA's tighter lockdowns. University Village, Westfield Southcenter, and Bellevue Square seem to be the three big malls in the Seattle area right now, and all are doing great. No major vacancies in any, that I know of. Southcenter even has an operating Sears (Westfield is pretty good at securing leases from what I've seen). I do think Bellevue Square has a large unused suite on its south end, which was previously a Whole Foods 365 store.

There are three malls that I'm really uncertain about: Federal Way Commons, Factoria Mall, and Crossroads Bellevue. These three are more "neighborhood" malls than regional or super-regional malls, so they don't seem to attract as many people. South Hill Mall, down in Puyallup, is similar. It definitely struggles, having a persistently dead corridor on its western end. But unlike the first three, I know that this mall isn't doing well.

GCrites

People think "nobody's going to the mall right now because of the virus" but that's not the case at all. Our foot traffic is pretty much normal. The virus put emphasis on stuff rather than "experiences" since you can't do most of those. Now if you are selling apparel for white-collar jobs, yes that is down. And no fun for the prom store.

SkyPesos

#388
Quote from: GCrites80s on February 12, 2021, 10:10:48 PM
People think "nobody's going to the mall right now because of the virus" but that's not the case at all. Our foot traffic is pretty much normal. The virus put emphasis on stuff rather than "experiences" since you can't do most of those. Now if you are selling apparel for white-collar jobs, yes that is down. And no fun for the prom store.
I went to Kenwood last year twice, once during the summer and once in December. Parking was hard to find both times, at least on the side facing US 22, which is the wing between the food court and Nordstrom, even with the virus.

SectorZ

Quote from: briantroutman on February 12, 2021, 01:24:55 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on February 12, 2021, 12:16:10 PM
I don't picture New Hampshire being over-malled in the way places like Ohio and Illinois were. That's probably helping the profitability.

I think New Hampshire having a sales tax rate of 0% has more than a little to do with it.

NH has four shopping malls, at least in what you would call the classic modern shopping mall.

Pheasant Lane Mall in Nashua. Part of the parking lot is in Tyngsboro, MA
The Mall at Rockingham Park in Salem, which is only a few miles from the border
Fox Run Mall in Newington, only a few miles access from Kittery, ME (which has a sales tax almost as bad as MA)
The Mall of New Hampshire in Manchester

3 of the 4 serve as a sales tax escape, while the other serves the most-populated city in the state.

I don't consider the Steeplegate Mall in Concord to be alive anymore. It's there, but over 3/4 empty.

Belmont, Bedford, and Conway at one time all had enclosed shopping malls, though they were quite small compared to the four still in existence. May be some other places too that had some that I just don't remember.

Nashua also at one point had two additional malls (and Salem one additional) that closed when the current malls beat them to a pulp.

tolbs17

Greenville Mall seems to be losing businesses. I'm guessing it's because of the COVID-19 pandemic. THE DEATH OF SHOPPING MALLS ARE HERE!!!

Bruce

Quote from: SkyPesos on February 12, 2021, 02:12:22 PM
Kind of wondering, how are Seattle area malls doing in general? I've been to Bellevue Square, Southcenter and University Village about 2 years ago, and those three look like they're doing well, at least pre-covid. Haven't been to Alderwood, but it looks fine too, besides the vacant former Sears spot. For dying malls, I know the Northgate area is getting redeveloped with the light rail extension. How about the other malls that I didn't mention in the Seattle area?

To add to Jake's comment:

Alderwood in Lynnwood is still busy, but in the middle of major renovations (new apartments on the site of two former anchors) as it prepares for near-ish light rail in 2024. It'll have a few new tenants soon, including a Dave & Busters, on the site of the former Sears. With new housing going up in the neighborhood, it should be set for the long term.

Everett Mall is dying an undignified death, with its former Sears still empty and most activity limited to the outer edges.

Crossroads Bellevue is doing decently well, judging by how full the parking lot is when I pass by.

Totem Lake in Kirkland has completed half of its major rebuild into a town center, with more stuff on the way, and looks to be doing well.

roadman65

St Louis Outlets in Hazelwood, MO is totally dead.  Since 2019 it closed and a sports venue is taking its place if it hasn't opened already.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

SkyPesos

#393
Quote from: Bruce on February 16, 2021, 12:25:48 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on February 12, 2021, 02:12:22 PM
Kind of wondering, how are Seattle area malls doing in general? I've been to Bellevue Square, Southcenter and University Village about 2 years ago, and those three look like they're doing well, at least pre-covid. Haven't been to Alderwood, but it looks fine too, besides the vacant former Sears spot. For dying malls, I know the Northgate area is getting redeveloped with the light rail extension. How about the other malls that I didn't mention in the Seattle area?

To add to Jake's comment:

Alderwood in Lynnwood is still busy, but in the middle of major renovations (new apartments on the site of two former anchors) as it prepares for near-ish light rail in 2024. It'll have a few new tenants soon, including a Dave & Busters, on the site of the former Sears. With new housing going up in the neighborhood, it should be set for the long term.

Everett Mall is dying an undignified death, with its former Sears still empty and most activity limited to the outer edges.

Crossroads Bellevue is doing decently well, judging by how full the parking lot is when I pass by.

Totem Lake in Kirkland has completed half of its major rebuild into a town center, with more stuff on the way, and looks to be doing well.
Bit late on this, but is the "near-ish light rail" referring to the Lynwood station (at the Lynwood TC) or the Alderwood Mall station? I saw the Sound Transit LRT plans, and they have the Lynwood station as the northern terminus of the next phase after Northgate, and an Alderwood Mall station part of the phase after that. I might of missed it if those plans I saw are outdated and they recently merged the next phase with Lynwood to open in 2024.

Also curious to why the current line bypassed Southcenter and went directly to Tukwilla International. It gets pretty close to the mall that the line probably could've been realigned during planning to have a station at the mall.

Bruce

Quote from: SkyPesos on March 09, 2021, 01:45:26 PM
Quote from: Bruce on February 16, 2021, 12:25:48 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on February 12, 2021, 02:12:22 PM
Kind of wondering, how are Seattle area malls doing in general? I've been to Bellevue Square, Southcenter and University Village about 2 years ago, and those three look like they're doing well, at least pre-covid. Haven't been to Alderwood, but it looks fine too, besides the vacant former Sears spot. For dying malls, I know the Northgate area is getting redeveloped with the light rail extension. How about the other malls that I didn't mention in the Seattle area?

To add to Jake's comment:

Alderwood in Lynnwood is still busy, but in the middle of major renovations (new apartments on the site of two former anchors) as it prepares for near-ish light rail in 2024. It'll have a few new tenants soon, including a Dave & Busters, on the site of the former Sears. With new housing going up in the neighborhood, it should be set for the long term.

Everett Mall is dying an undignified death, with its former Sears still empty and most activity limited to the outer edges.

Crossroads Bellevue is doing decently well, judging by how full the parking lot is when I pass by.

Totem Lake in Kirkland has completed half of its major rebuild into a town center, with more stuff on the way, and looks to be doing well.
Bit late on this, but is the "near-ish light rail" referring to the Lynwood station (at the Lynwood TC) or the Alderwood Mall station? I saw the Sound Transit LRT plans, and they have the Lynwood station as the northern terminus of the next phase after Northgate, and an Alderwood Mall station part of the phase after that. I might of missed it if those plans I saw are outdated and they recently merged the next phase with Lynwood to open in 2024.

Also curious to why the current line bypassed Southcenter and went directly to Tukwilla International. It gets pretty close to the mall that the line probably could've been realigned during planning to have a station at the mall.

I'm referring to Lynnwood City Center Station, which is being built at the current transit center and will open in 2024 as the terminus of the Lynnwood Extension. The Alderwood station is part of the Everett Extension that will open in the 2030s (originally 2036, but then COVID) and has no set location yet.

The current line was supposed to follow Tukwila Intl Blvd (former SR 99) on a surface alignment, until Tukwila forced it onto the freeway. Sound Transit looked at trying to serve Southcenter, but there would be a long detour through rough terrain for "little benefit", so it was skipped. There have been a few studies looking at an east-west Burien-Renton line with a Southcenter stop, but it was not included in the ST3 package as light rail, but just express "BRT" that bypasses Southcenter.

tolbs17

Even the Greenville Mall is dying. We lost stores, a cookie stand, but you can blame the pandemic for it.

kevinb1994

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 14, 2021, 03:37:13 PM
Even the Greenville Mall is dying. We lost stores, a cookie stand, but you can blame the pandemic for it.
I don't see the loss of anchor tenant(s).

Flint1979

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 14, 2021, 03:37:13 PM
Even the Greenville Mall is dying. We lost stores, a cookie stand, but you can blame the pandemic for it.
Looks strange seeing a Michigan based business that I didn't know was that big (Dunham's Sports).

hbelkins

I drove past a dead mall yesterday. The Kyova Mall on US 60 outside Ashland. I don't even know if any stores are open in the place. You can see the shadows from Elder-Beerman signage on the outside of the building.

And then I went to a mall that is very much alive. The Ashland Town Center. I was going to a business that happened to be located in the mall. First time I had been inside a mall in years. It appeared to be thriving. Anchors are JC Penney, Belk, and TJ Maxx. I only saw one vacant store in the building.

While there, I went in a FYE store for the first time. I thought I heard that they were going out of business. With the prices FYE charges, I can see why. They were asking $17.99 for an old Rush "A Farewell to Kings" CD that has been available for less than $10 for years.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

GCrites

FYE's business model is switching more to "merch" at most locations and away from ordinary physical media like CDs and DVDs. That means fewer, larger stores located in high-income areas such as their stores at Dayton Mall and Polaris Fashion Place since it's hard to find people that will spend a ton of money on Harley Quinn statues and $100 special edition vinyl records. I am a bit surprised that the Ashland Town Center location is still there since from what I remember it's not in a large space. What could be going on there is a pretty serious lack of competition in the vicinity. The Pied Piper that was across from the mall is long gone now.



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