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Miami no longer present on sign bridge at I-85/95 split?

Started by Zzonkmiles, April 18, 2015, 11:13:18 PM

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The Nature Boy

Quote from: Zeffy on April 30, 2015, 10:45:20 AM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.

Rocky Mount isn't a bad choice. Miami's use was interesting - however, you can compare it to Maryland's insistent signing of New York (City) on I-95 from Baltimore!

New York is only about 3.5 hours or so from Baltimore though so it's not nearly as outrageous as Miami being signed in Richmond. New York is a sensible (albeit slightly odd) control city for Baltimore. Miami for Richmond? Not so much.

Honestly, Fayetteville is about as far from Richmond as NYC is from Baltimore. Signing Fayetteville at that junction makes some sense, especially pairing it with Rocky Mount there. If Fayetteville isn't notable enough, I'd sign it as "Fort Bragg/Pope AFB" if that helps some people.


cpzilliacus

Quote from: The Nature Boy on April 30, 2015, 11:52:57 AM
New York is only about 3.5 hours or so from Baltimore though so it's not nearly as outrageous as Miami being signed in Richmond. New York is a sensible (albeit slightly odd) control city for Baltimore. Miami for Richmond? Not so much.

I hope Maryland will start to include Philadelphia (and Wilmington) more-prominently on signs on I-95 northbound once the slow, slower and slowest Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission/PennDOT project to close the I-95 gap in Bristol is complete enough to allow drivers to follow I-95 north through Philadelphia and still reach New York and points beyond.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Henry

Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
What would you have done with Atlanta? Replaced it with one of the Carolinas' major cities, like Greensboro or Charlotte?

In any case, I'm sure these signs would make great collectibles simply because of their double quirks: Atlanta on one sign and Miami on the other.
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US 41

Quote from: Henry on April 30, 2015, 01:03:41 PM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
What would you have done with Atlanta? Replaced it with one of the Carolinas' major cities, like Greensboro or Charlotte?

In any case, I'm sure these signs would make great collectibles simply because of their double quirks: Atlanta on one sign and Miami on the other.

I would've used Durham on that sign.
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cpzilliacus

Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 01:21:47 PM
I would've used Durham on that sign.

If memory serves, Durham was used on some signs on I-85 in Virginia (but it has been a while since I drove I-85).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Mapmikey

Durham is on the old and new versions of the I-95 SB BGSs...

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Mapmikey on April 30, 2015, 02:21:57 PM
Durham is on the old and new versions of the I-95 SB BGSs...

I thought I remember seeing Durham on I-85 in Virginia, but it makes sense that VDOT would put Durham on I-95 as well.

I have not driven the old RTP south of U.S. 250 (East Broad Street) in quite a few years.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

The Nature Boy

Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 01:21:47 PM
Quote from: Henry on April 30, 2015, 01:03:41 PM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
What would you have done with Atlanta? Replaced it with one of the Carolinas' major cities, like Greensboro or Charlotte?

In any case, I'm sure these signs would make great collectibles simply because of their double quirks: Atlanta on one sign and Miami on the other.

I would've used Durham on that sign.

Replace Atlanta with Charlotte and sign it as Durham and Charlotte. Charlotte is a noteworthy enough destination that it warrants being a control city, if we're signing cities that aren't in the immediate area.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: The Nature Boy on April 30, 2015, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 01:21:47 PM
Quote from: Henry on April 30, 2015, 01:03:41 PM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
What would you have done with Atlanta? Replaced it with one of the Carolinas' major cities, like Greensboro or Charlotte?

In any case, I'm sure these signs would make great collectibles simply because of their double quirks: Atlanta on one sign and Miami on the other.

I would've used Durham on that sign.

Replace Atlanta with Charlotte and sign it as Durham and Charlotte. Charlotte is a noteworthy enough destination that it warrants being a control city, if we're signing cities that aren't in the immediate area.

Years ago (when the RTP was still tolled, prior to 1992), one of the control cities on the BGS panels at the point where I-85 exited-off from I-95 after the big toll plaza in Petersburg, had a control city of South Hill (which isn't too bad, IMO).

In those days, that was the last RTP plaza for I-95 traffic, but there was another toll on I-85, headed south just prior to the U.S. 1 interchange (present-day Exit 63).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Takumi

There's one Atlanta posting left, at the 2-mile advance sign between exits 54 and 53. Most of the other I-85 signage has South Hill and Blackstone (a small town on US 460 about 30 miles west).
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
Olive Garden must be stopped.  I must stop them.

Don't @ me. Seriously.

OracleUsr

Quote from: Pink Jazz on April 30, 2015, 02:16:11 AM
Quote from: OracleUsr on April 29, 2015, 10:37:25 PM
Is VDOT starting to use Clearview properly?  I saw series D gothic at the Woodbridge interchange (Exit 161 off I-95 Southbound)

And now this.  My hopes are up.

Yep, late last year VDOT has updated its policy on its use of Clearview, enforcing its proper use only for mixed case legend, and not for all-caps or numerals.  The updated policy also forbids the use of the narrower Clearview variants as well as any of the negative contrast variants, allowing the use of only Clearview 5-W, or Clearview 5-W-R if sign width is limited.

Thank goodness.  My first exposure to the LEFT banner in VA was for the Dulles Greenway (LEFT EXIT 45 off I-495 Inner) and that was the most hideous looking sign I have ever seen.  Then I got back on Outer I-495 and saw the I-66 East sign with the same effect.

I swear at one time on the split there was more than just Rocky Mount/Miami on the left panel.  Was I dreaming?
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Pete from Boston

Quote from: Henry on April 30, 2015, 01:03:41 PM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
What would you have done with Atlanta? Replaced it with one of the Carolinas' major cities, like Greensboro or Charlotte?

In any case, I'm sure these signs would make great collectibles simply because of their double quirks: Atlanta on one sign and Miami on the other.

If you have a 20-foot wall to mount them on, maybe you can work out a deal for them.

Zzonkmiles

Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.

Well, North Carolina is pretty weird with its control cities on I-95. I've seen Lumberton, Fayetteville, Benson, Dunn, Wilson, Rocky Mount and Richmond as control signs. Sometimes a control city will appear on a sign bridge and then NOT appear on the very next mileage sign. I guess Rocky Mount is okay, but Fayetteville might be better. Heck, even Raleigh would be a better candidate than Wilson, Dunn and Benson.

Jacksonville (FL) won't work as a control city because there's a Jacksonville in eastern NC as well.

NJRoadfan

Keep in mind NC is the same state that relegated its state capital to a bolted on auxiliary sign at the US-64 (Future I-495) exit on I-95: https://goo.gl/maps/fvlyA

It isn't signed northbound there for various reasons, yet its signed southbound at US-264!

On I-85, Virginia uses South Hill southbound. There is at least one mileage sign for Durham and Henderson each.

Mapmikey

Quote from: Zzonkmiles on April 30, 2015, 08:02:56 PM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.


Well, North Carolina is pretty weird with its control cities on I-95. I've seen Lumberton, Fayetteville, Benson, Dunn, Wilson, Rocky Mount and Richmond as control signs. Sometimes a control city will appear on a sign bridge and then NOT appear on the very next mileage sign. I guess Rocky Mount is okay, but Fayetteville might be better. Heck, even Raleigh would be a better candidate than Wilson, Dunn and Benson.

Jacksonville (FL) won't work as a control city because there's a Jacksonville in eastern NC as well.

There is also Florence SC and I believe at some point in the past there has also been Weldon and Smithfield

Zzonkmiles

Quote from: Mapmikey on April 30, 2015, 09:09:11 PM
Quote from: Zzonkmiles on April 30, 2015, 08:02:56 PM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.


Well, North Carolina is pretty weird with its control cities on I-95. I've seen Lumberton, Fayetteville, Benson, Dunn, Wilson, Rocky Mount and Richmond as control signs. Sometimes a control city will appear on a sign bridge and then NOT appear on the very next mileage sign. I guess Rocky Mount is okay, but Fayetteville might be better. Heck, even Raleigh would be a better candidate than Wilson, Dunn and Benson.

Jacksonville (FL) won't work as a control city because there's a Jacksonville in eastern NC as well.

There is also Florence SC and I believe at some point in the past there has also been Weldon and Smithfield

Smithfield does appear on the I-40 sign bridge heading on 95 northbound. Curiously, Durham appears on the sign bridge if you are heading southbound, but not northbound.

Also, the Atlanta sign does appear on a separate sign on I-95 south in Petersburg. Seems Virginia has a penchant for putting multiple control signs on multiple signs before an actual interchange. They do something similar with I-295. Coming from Washington, the 295 control cities include Rocky Mount, Williamsburg, Norfolk, and Virginia Beach, if I remember correctly. Heck, maybe even Hopewell is listed.

Takumi

Quote from: Zzonkmiles on April 30, 2015, 11:24:05 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on April 30, 2015, 09:09:11 PM
Quote from: Zzonkmiles on April 30, 2015, 08:02:56 PM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.


Well, North Carolina is pretty weird with its control cities on I-95. I've seen Lumberton, Fayetteville, Benson, Dunn, Wilson, Rocky Mount and Richmond as control signs. Sometimes a control city will appear on a sign bridge and then NOT appear on the very next mileage sign. I guess Rocky Mount is okay, but Fayetteville might be better. Heck, even Raleigh would be a better candidate than Wilson, Dunn and Benson.

Jacksonville (FL) won't work as a control city because there's a Jacksonville in eastern NC as well.

There is also Florence SC and I believe at some point in the past there has also been Weldon and Smithfield

Smithfield does appear on the I-40 sign bridge heading on 95 northbound. Curiously, Durham appears on the sign bridge if you are heading southbound, but not northbound.

Also, the Atlanta sign does appear on a separate sign on I-95 south in Petersburg. Seems Virginia has a penchant for putting multiple control signs on multiple signs before an actual interchange. They do something similar with I-295. Coming from Washington, the 295 control cities include Rocky Mount, Williamsburg, Norfolk, and Virginia Beach, if I remember correctly. Heck, maybe even Hopewell is listed.

Miami also used to be on I-95 southbound before I-295, but 10-15 years ago it was changed to Richmond airport.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
Olive Garden must be stopped.  I must stop them.

Don't @ me. Seriously.

Alex

Quote from: Takumi on May 01, 2015, 12:30:58 AM
Miami also used to be on I-95 southbound before I-295, but 10-15 years ago it was changed to Richmond airport.

Old A.A. Gallery vidcaps from 1999:




mrsman

IMO, having Miami and Atlanta on the signs, while not required, was very useful because of the large number of snowbirds who use the highway.  Many do not know about the towns on the way and know that they are simply going to Miami.  If Miami is not there, which is the case now, I bet more thru traffic would stay on I-95 as opposed to using I-295 as the very clear bypass that it was intended.

Atlanta is not as important, since Charlotte is fairly well known, but I imagine Atlanta was chosen to be a complement to Miami on the 95/85 split sign.  For each highway one regionally familiar control city and one very distant (but nationally familiar) control city.

The Nature Boy

To be fair, wouldn't snowbirds know that North Carolina is south of Virginia but north of Florida? Rocky Mount, NC would be enough to clue them in that I-295 is the best way to get to North Carolina.

Pete from Boston


Quote from: mrsman on May 01, 2015, 12:12:19 PM
IMO, having Miami and Atlanta on the signs, while not required, was very useful because of the large number of snowbirds who use the highway.  Many do not know about the towns on the way and know that they are simply going to Miami.  If Miami is not there, which is the case now, I bet more thru traffic would stay on I-95 as opposed to using I-295 as the very clear bypass that it was intended.

Atlanta is not as important, since Charlotte is fairly well known, but I imagine Atlanta was chosen to be a complement to Miami on the 95/85 split sign.  For each highway one regionally familiar control city and one very distant (but nationally familiar) control city.

I appreciate the sentiment, but it creeps perilously close to our imaginary friend who posted exclusively about the need to sign "New York" everywhere within 500 miles of the city.

NJRoadfan

Didn't Maryland used to post "NJ Turnpike" on pull thrus on the JFK Expressway at one point?

Atomica

It would seem peculiar that VDOT would post signage so far south...but then again, I've seen that TDOT sign in Memphis on the I-55 at US78 with signage pointing eastbound traffic to Birmingham (AL) - even though Tupelo (MS) is much closer.
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The Nature Boy

To be fair though, signing "Philadelphia" makes sense for Maryland. Why do they care what through traffic does north of their state? Leave it to Delaware to properly direct people to I-295. There's no reason for Maryland to NOT list Philadelphia on I-95 signage especially since I-95 IS the proper way to get to Philly from Maryland.

I might be able to tolerate using the NJ Turnpike as a control "city." It's basically using a control city as a guide point, like I assume Pennsylvania does with Breezewood. The NJ Turnpike and Breezewood aren't destinations in themselves, but they're notable enough that you know you're going the right way if you happen upon them.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: PHLBOS on May 01, 2015, 02:17:30 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 30, 2015, 12:59:17 PMI hope Maryland will start to include Philadelphia (and Wilmington) more-prominently on signs on I-95 northbound once the slow, slower and slowest Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission/PennDOT project to close the I-95 gap in Bristol is complete enough to allow drivers to follow I-95 north through Philadelphia and still reach New York and points beyond.
Since you mentioned Wilmington in your above-post, what's stopping Maryland from using that as a listed I-95 northbound destination today?   The core of the city is located just north of the I-95/295/495 split and has nothing to do whatsoever with the status of that I-95/PA Turnpike interchange.

Yes, MDTA could sign Wilmington now (and Maryland SHA does, but on U.S. 301 north of Queenstown).

Just like SHA signs Philadelphia on U.S. 40 east of Baltimore, where it runs parallel to I-95 - and even though U.S. 40 gets noplace close to Philadelphia.

Quote from: PHLBOS on May 01, 2015, 02:17:30 PM
As far as not listing Philadelphia on those signs; something tells me that even if the original I-95 (the Somerset Freeway in NJ) had been built, Maryland would've probably still use New York as a northbound destination for the simple reason being that most through-traffic to New York will still use I-295 and the NJ Turnpike (and bypass Philly) to get there.

I have nothing against SHA and MDTA signing New York on I-95.  But the failure to mention Wilmington and Philadelphia is IMO wrong.

As for through traffic, I have always had the impression that DelDOT tries hard (and has tried hard since the Delaware Turnpike opened in 1963) to get traffic bound for New York to use I-295 and the Delaware Memorial Bridge by (correctly) having no mention of New York on the sign panels for I-95 northbound approaching the I-95/I-295/I-495 "split."

Quote from: PHLBOS on May 01, 2015, 02:17:30 PM
OTOH, through-traffic to New England could've used I-95 through Philly along with the unbuilt-Somerset Freeway portion to I-695 (also unbuilt in NJ) to I-287 to bypass NYC and vicinity.

But I digress.

NIMBYism hurts everyone, even though think the wider N.J. Turnpike north of Exit 6 was ultimately a better choice.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.



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