AARoads Forum

National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: NE2 on February 10, 2015, 12:24:19 AM

Title: Interstates and national parks
Post by: NE2 on February 10, 2015, 12:24:19 AM
Zion National Park literally touches the I-15 right-of-way line at exit 40.

And if you count national preserves, I-75 cuts through the north part of Big Cypress.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/national_parks/nps_map99.pdf
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: Molandfreak on February 10, 2015, 01:28:53 AM
I-11 will go through Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Though that might not be as interesting as there appear to be quite a few Interstates that bridge over national scenic riverways (and whatever else they may be called).
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: Molandfreak on February 10, 2015, 01:45:21 AM
Looks like I-94 briefly cuts through Theodore Roosevelt National Park. (http://www.nps.gov/maps/print/?lat=-45.7062&lng=-72.2461&zoom=3&printId=078606a6-4166-ffa8-dc2d-2fab7a0d0cb3) It touches the right-of-way for quite a while, too.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: Pete from Boston on February 10, 2015, 02:00:03 AM
128–er, 95 touches Minuteman in Lexington, Mass.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: NE2 on February 10, 2015, 03:16:13 AM
Quote from: Molandfreak on February 10, 2015, 01:45:21 AM
Looks like I-94 briefly cuts through Theodore Roosevelt National Park. (http://www.nps.gov/maps/print/?lat=-45.7062&lng=-72.2461&zoom=3&printId=078606a6-4166-ffa8-dc2d-2fab7a0d0cb3) It touches the right-of-way for quite a while, too.
So it does (your link won't load for me, however).
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nps.gov%2Fparkmaps%2Fthro%2Fimg%2FTileGroup0%2F2-0-2.jpg&hash=df544c02e713c3e04d71e24b757287c203f66063)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nps.gov%2Fparkmaps%2Fthro%2Fimg%2FTileGroup0%2F2-0-3.jpg&hash=e06c1c7e6cd0b4f94e9520f90e274ab89ee310b6)

This appears to be a case where the park extended to US 10, and I-94 was later built through the park. Take that, Yellowstone NIMBYs!
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: SteveG1988 on February 10, 2015, 05:38:46 AM
I-20 cuts through the Talladega National Forrest.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: english si on February 10, 2015, 06:24:48 AM
While not an interstate, the (very controversial) M3 Twyford Down section was included in South Downs National Park when that was created in the late 00s. In the early 90s when the road was built amid protests, it wasn't part of the 'Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty' that preceeded the park.

Likewise when they converted the New Forest from a sui generis entity dating back 900+ years to a National Park they expanded the area it covered, and rather than the M27 basically ending on the boundary (half the overbridge at junction 1 was in the area) a good couple of miles was suddenly inside the Park.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: Kacie Jane on February 10, 2015, 06:49:43 AM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on February 10, 2015, 05:38:46 AM
I-20 cuts through the Talladega National Forrest.

This can't be all that rare, especially out west. I-90 does so in Washington (Mt. Baker-Snoqualmie).
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: 1995hoo on February 10, 2015, 08:51:06 AM
I-66 crosses the air space above Theodore Roosevelt Island in DC, a national memorial maintained by the National Park Service. I believe the same highway's right-of-way touches the southern border of the Manassas National Battlefield Park.

I believe I-77 and I-26 both cut through national forests.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: Beeper1 on February 10, 2015, 09:12:34 AM
Does the Ohio Turnpike touch Cuyahoga Valley National Park?

Massachusetts Turnpike crosses over the Blackstone River, now part of Blackstone Valley National Historic Park.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: Brandon on February 10, 2015, 09:52:52 AM
I-40 goes through Petrified Forest NP.

Quote from: Beeper1 on February 10, 2015, 09:12:34 AM
Does the Ohio Turnpike touch Cuyahoga Valley National Park?

It looks like the park is right up to the ROW of the Turnpike.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: BrianP on February 10, 2015, 10:17:15 AM
I-270 bisects Monocacy National Battlefield. 
QuotePreservationists lost fights in the 1960s and 1980s when Interstate 270 was constructed and later widened, bisecting a portion of the battlefield.
Although really the first fight would have been in the 1950's or even late 40's since that section of I-270 was built in 1953 as US 240.  If it was built later or the park site was able to be established earlier then I-270 would have probably had to go around the park site. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monocacy_National_Battlefield

And I-81 crosses the Chesapeake & Ohio Canal National Historical Park.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: roadman65 on February 10, 2015, 11:10:21 AM
I-80 and the Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area.  That is if you count recreation areas as a park, being some are including national forests.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: Grzrd on February 10, 2015, 12:02:18 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on February 10, 2015, 01:28:53 AM
there appear to be quite a few Interstates that bridge over national scenic riverways (and whatever else they may be called).

With the above observation in mind, I mention I-75 crossing over the National Park Service's Chattahoochee River National Recreation Area (http://www.nps.gov/chat/index.htm) only because I drive over that crossing several times a week.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: cpzilliacus on February 10, 2015, 12:24:57 PM
I-395 (Shirley Highway) crosses the George Washington Memorial Parkway (http://www.nps.gov/gwmp/index.htm) (which is more than just a motor road) as it approaches the Virginia shoreline of the Potomac River and the 14th Street Bridge, and on the D.C. side (as the Southwest Freeway), it slices through Potomac Park, forming the dividing line between East Potomac Park and West Potomac Park.  I-395 itself crosses under the National Mall in the Third Street Tunnel, and its spurs, the non-numbered 12 Street Tunnel (northbound) and 9th Street Tunnel (southbound) also cross under the National Mall (http://www.nps.gov/nama/index.htm).

I-495 (Capital Beltway) crosses the Clara Barton Parkway (administratively part of the George Washington Memorial Parkway) and the C&O Canal (http://www.nps.gov/choh/historyculture/index.htm) as it approaches the American Legion Bridge over the Potomac on the Maryland side.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: PurdueBill on February 10, 2015, 04:32:58 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 10, 2015, 09:52:52 AM
I-40 goes through Petrified Forest NP.

Quote from: Beeper1 on February 10, 2015, 09:12:34 AM
Does the Ohio Turnpike touch Cuyahoga Valley National Park?

It looks like the park is right up to the ROW of the Turnpike.

I-271 and I-80/Turnpike both cross high over the Towpath Trail in the CVNP and the official maps (http://www.nps.gov/cuva/planyourvisit/maps.htm) leave it somewhat unclear as to whose property you're on as you pass under both, but Riverview Road is continuously a county road inside the park on both sides of both Interstates and appears to be the one more sure link between sections of the park that both Interstates overpass--for as much of a park as it is.  CVNP is not the typical national park, but I do enjoy it.  Next time I'm on my bike on the Towpath Trail under 271 and the Turnpike I'll have to notice more carefully if there are any signs of jurisdiction changes or anything; there has never been anything I've noticed.  Turnpike property is clearly fenced and signed, so it's possible that the park is continuous more than the map makes it appear.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: Brandon on February 10, 2015, 04:39:48 PM
Quote from: PurdueBill on February 10, 2015, 04:32:58 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 10, 2015, 09:52:52 AM
I-40 goes through Petrified Forest NP.

Quote from: Beeper1 on February 10, 2015, 09:12:34 AM
Does the Ohio Turnpike touch Cuyahoga Valley National Park?

It looks like the park is right up to the ROW of the Turnpike.

I-271 and I-80/Turnpike both cross high over the Towpath Trail in the CVNP and the official maps (http://www.nps.gov/cuva/planyourvisit/maps.htm) leave it somewhat unclear as to whose property you're on as you pass under both, but Riverview Road is continuously a county road inside the park on both sides of both Interstates and appears to be the one more sure link between sections of the park that both Interstates overpass--for as much of a park as it is.  CVNP is not the typical national park, but I do enjoy it.  Next time I'm on my bike on the Towpath Trail under 271 and the Turnpike I'll have to notice more carefully if there are any signs of jurisdiction changes or anything; there has never been anything I've noticed.  Turnpike property is clearly fenced and signed, so it's possible that the park is continuous more than the map makes it appear.

If there is a property tax map available, that would show who owns what for certain.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: SectorZ on February 10, 2015, 05:07:21 PM
Bits and pieces of I-93 pass thru White Mountain National Forest. The Franconia Notch Pkwy is a state park sandwiched between the two halves of the national forest. However, between exits 26 and 32 34 there are portions that pass in and out for in some cases just hundreds of feet.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: NE2 on February 10, 2015, 05:13:52 PM
National forests are much less protected than national parks. National forrests are racist assclowns.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: PurdueBill on February 10, 2015, 05:48:12 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 10, 2015, 04:39:48 PM
Quote from: PurdueBill on February 10, 2015, 04:32:58 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 10, 2015, 09:52:52 AM
I-40 goes through Petrified Forest NP.

Quote from: Beeper1 on February 10, 2015, 09:12:34 AM
Does the Ohio Turnpike touch Cuyahoga Valley National Park?

It looks like the park is right up to the ROW of the Turnpike.

I-271 and I-80/Turnpike both cross high over the Towpath Trail in the CVNP and the official maps (http://www.nps.gov/cuva/planyourvisit/maps.htm) leave it somewhat unclear as to whose property you're on as you pass under both, but Riverview Road is continuously a county road inside the park on both sides of both Interstates and appears to be the one more sure link between sections of the park that both Interstates overpass--for as much of a park as it is.  CVNP is not the typical national park, but I do enjoy it.  Next time I'm on my bike on the Towpath Trail under 271 and the Turnpike I'll have to notice more carefully if there are any signs of jurisdiction changes or anything; there has never been anything I've noticed.  Turnpike property is clearly fenced and signed, so it's possible that the park is continuous more than the map makes it appear.

If there is a property tax map available, that would show who owns what for certain.

Summit County GIS shows tax parcels extending under both 80 and 271 in the park area, owner USA, so it appears that park property is underneath the bridges over the river--at least from that data source.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: cl94 on February 10, 2015, 09:26:41 PM
Quote from: PurdueBill on February 10, 2015, 05:48:12 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 10, 2015, 04:39:48 PM
Quote from: PurdueBill on February 10, 2015, 04:32:58 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 10, 2015, 09:52:52 AM
I-40 goes through Petrified Forest NP.

Quote from: Beeper1 on February 10, 2015, 09:12:34 AM
Does the Ohio Turnpike touch Cuyahoga Valley National Park?

It looks like the park is right up to the ROW of the Turnpike.

I-271 and I-80/Turnpike both cross high over the Towpath Trail in the CVNP and the official maps (http://www.nps.gov/cuva/planyourvisit/maps.htm) leave it somewhat unclear as to whose property you're on as you pass under both, but Riverview Road is continuously a county road inside the park on both sides of both Interstates and appears to be the one more sure link between sections of the park that both Interstates overpass--for as much of a park as it is.  CVNP is not the typical national park, but I do enjoy it.  Next time I'm on my bike on the Towpath Trail under 271 and the Turnpike I'll have to notice more carefully if there are any signs of jurisdiction changes or anything; there has never been anything I've noticed.  Turnpike property is clearly fenced and signed, so it's possible that the park is continuous more than the map makes it appear.

If there is a property tax map available, that would show who owns what for certain.

Summit County GIS shows tax parcels extending under both 80 and 271 in the park area, owner USA, so it appears that park property is underneath the bridges over the river--at least from that data source.

CVNP is somewhat similar to New York's Adirondack and Catskill Parks in that it's a protected area, but people do own property, live, and do business within the boundaries.

It's not a national park, but a good portion of I-87 is in Adirondack Park, which is larger than any other protected area in the US outside of Alaska.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: oscar on February 10, 2015, 09:56:37 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 10, 2015, 09:52:52 AM
I-40 goes through Petrified Forest NP.

IIRC, that park originally was on one side of I-40, then later (and after the Interstate was built) expanded to include land on the other side.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: KG909 on February 11, 2015, 10:39:00 PM
I-15 cuts through the Sam Bernardino National Forest, and I believe borders the Mojave but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: Laura on February 12, 2015, 04:56:21 AM

Quote from: NE2 on February 10, 2015, 05:13:52 PM
National forests are much less protected than national parks. National forrests are racist assclowns.

Awkwardly true...

Anyway, I-64 crosses over Shenandoah National Park outside of Waynesboro, VA.


iPhone
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: Mapmikey on February 12, 2015, 07:06:40 AM
Quote from: oscar on February 10, 2015, 09:56:37 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 10, 2015, 09:52:52 AM
I-40 goes through Petrified Forest NP.

IIRC, that park originally was on one side of I-40, then later (and after the Interstate was built) expanded to include land on the other side.

The 1956 Rand McN shows the Petrified Forest (then a Nat'l Monument) occupying land well north of US 66, but the park road only existed south of US 66.  1961 Rand McN shows same dynamic except I-40 was completed through there with still no road north of I-40/US 66.

Mapmikey
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: Brandon on February 12, 2015, 01:20:20 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 10, 2015, 05:13:52 PM
National forests are much less protected than national parks.

That's because they are two entirely different entities.  National parks are administered by the National Park Service, a part of the Department of the Interior.  National forests are administered by the United States Forest Service, a part of the Department of Agriculture.  They have two different missions.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: Dougtone on February 18, 2015, 12:45:13 PM
Quote from: cl94 on February 10, 2015, 09:26:41 PM
Quote from: PurdueBill on February 10, 2015, 05:48:12 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 10, 2015, 04:39:48 PM
Quote from: PurdueBill on February 10, 2015, 04:32:58 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 10, 2015, 09:52:52 AM
I-40 goes through Petrified Forest NP.

Quote from: Beeper1 on February 10, 2015, 09:12:34 AM
Does the Ohio Turnpike touch Cuyahoga Valley National Park?

It looks like the park is right up to the ROW of the Turnpike.

I-271 and I-80/Turnpike both cross high over the Towpath Trail in the CVNP and the official maps (http://www.nps.gov/cuva/planyourvisit/maps.htm) leave it somewhat unclear as to whose property you're on as you pass under both, but Riverview Road is continuously a county road inside the park on both sides of both Interstates and appears to be the one more sure link between sections of the park that both Interstates overpass--for as much of a park as it is.  CVNP is not the typical national park, but I do enjoy it.  Next time I'm on my bike on the Towpath Trail under 271 and the Turnpike I'll have to notice more carefully if there are any signs of jurisdiction changes or anything; there has never been anything I've noticed.  Turnpike property is clearly fenced and signed, so it's possible that the park is continuous more than the map makes it appear.

If there is a property tax map available, that would show who owns what for certain.

Summit County GIS shows tax parcels extending under both 80 and 271 in the park area, owner USA, so it appears that park property is underneath the bridges over the river--at least from that data source.

CVNP is somewhat similar to New York's Adirondack and Catskill Parks in that it's a protected area, but people do own property, live, and do business within the boundaries.

It's not a national park, but a good portion of I-87 is in Adirondack Park, which is larger than any other protected area in the US outside of Alaska.
I believe that I-87 borders (or runs very close to) the Catskill Park as well, at least around Kingston. I-86 will do the same once it is expanded into Delaware and Sullivan Counties.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: DandyDan on February 18, 2015, 03:02:41 PM
The Jefferson National Expansion Memorial, home of the Gateway Arch, runs right next to I-44, I-64, and I-55, and formerly I-70, in downtown St. Louis.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: mgk920 on February 18, 2015, 08:57:41 PM
From earlier discussions here in AA Roadsland, it was determined that the only place where an interstate highway actually passes through a national park is I-94 and Theodore Roosevelt National Park.

All of the rest (ie, Cuyahoga Valley N.P.), the highway RsOW are technically not inside of the parks, rather the parks' boundaries were specifically drawn to exclude the highways as non-park corridors that pass between separate sections of the parks.

Mike
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: GaryV on February 18, 2015, 10:10:34 PM
I-77, I-40 and I-26 all cross the Blue Ridge Parkway - admittedly without any direct connection, but it touches park land.

Natchez Trace Parkway crosses and has intersections with I-20 and I-55.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: cpzilliacus on February 18, 2015, 10:22:29 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 18, 2015, 08:57:41 PM
From earlier discussions here in AA Roadsland, it was determined that the only place where an interstate highway actually passes through a national park is I-94 and Theodore Roosevelt National Park.

All of the rest (ie, Cuyahoga Valley N.P.), the highway RsOW are technically not inside of the parks, rather the parks' boundaries were specifically drawn to exclude the highways as non-park corridors that pass between separate sections of the parks.

Incorrect.

An Interstate (I-66) crosses another National Park Service asset named for Teddy, Theodore Roosevelt Island in the Potomac River.

And I-395 (Southwest Freeway) crosses Potomac Park downstream from I-66 on the D.C. side of the Potomac. 

I confirmed both of these by looking up at the areas with the online District of Columbia Geographic Information System.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: mgk920 on February 19, 2015, 02:37:24 AM
They may be NPS properties, but they are not formal 'National Parks'.

For example, should the 'Blue Ridge Parkway' be redesignated as 'Blue Ridge National Park', then of course the list would change.

Mike
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: NE2 on February 19, 2015, 02:59:48 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 19, 2015, 02:37:24 AM
They may be NPS properties, but they are not formal 'National Parks'.
Is there any legal difference, or is it simply what they've been named?

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/93/hr7077/text
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/106/hr4578/text
All I see from the renaming of Cuyahoga Valley NRA is that it was renamed.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: kkt on February 19, 2015, 01:04:37 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 19, 2015, 02:59:48 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 19, 2015, 02:37:24 AM
They may be NPS properties, but they are not formal 'National Parks'.
Is there any legal difference, or is it simply what they've been named?

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/93/hr7077/text
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/106/hr4578/text
All I see from the renaming of Cuyahoga Valley NRA is that it was renamed.

The NPS is allowed to own land that's not part of a park.  For instance, if  a park is mostly wilderness area the NPS sometimes buys nearby land for maintenance facilities, office staffs, etc.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: bulldog1979 on February 19, 2015, 06:12:41 PM
Quote from: DandyDan on February 18, 2015, 03:02:41 PM
The Jefferson National Expansion Memorial, home of the Gateway Arch, runs right next to I-44, I-64, and I-55, and formerly I-70, in downtown St. Louis.

More to the point, I-44 runs through and under part of the JNEM, as the property that connects the Old Courthouse to the Arch grounds (Kiener Plaza) is part of the park. In fact, they're building "The Park Over the Highway" above I-44 to better connect the properties as one part of the "CityArchRiver 2015" scheme.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: Molandfreak on February 19, 2015, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 19, 2015, 02:37:24 AM
They may be NPS properties, but they are not formal 'National Parks'.

For example, should the 'Blue Ridge Parkway' be redesignated as 'Blue Ridge National Park', then of course the list would change.
That's like one of the most particular, unnecessary statements I've ever heard...
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: cpzilliacus on February 22, 2015, 04:20:03 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 19, 2015, 02:37:24 AM
They may be NPS properties, but they are not formal 'National Parks'.

No legal difference.  If it is owned by NPS, then the rules that apply in named National Parks very nearly always apply (I know, having professionally dealt with NPS a lot).

Quote from: mgk920 on February 19, 2015, 02:37:24 AM
For example, should the 'Blue Ridge Parkway' be redesignated as 'Blue Ridge National Park', then of course the list would change.

Local anti-auto activists and NIMBYs in the Washington area have repeatedly renamed Rock Creek Park in the District of Columbia to Rock Creek National Park.  No difference (the park does extend north of D.C. for many miles as Rock Creek Park, owned not by NPS, but by the Maryland-National Capital Park and Planning Commission). 

The National Mall and the monuments and memorials along it are all under NPS ownership, and are very definitely considered national parks.
Title: Re: Interstates and national parks
Post by: cpzilliacus on February 22, 2015, 04:22:11 PM
Quote from: kkt on February 19, 2015, 01:04:37 PM
The NPS is allowed to own land that's not part of a park.  For instance, if  a park is mostly wilderness area the NPS sometimes buys nearby land for maintenance facilities, office staffs, etc.

That's correct.  NPS will sometimes lease or purchase office space for park-related management to occupy.

In these cases, federal law governing national parkland does not apply.