I don't foresee myself ever needing a new car with driver assist features

[RobbieL2415]

So why should I have to pay for them? I'm not an idiot, I know how to drive.

[kphoger]

After all, what do you consider "driver assist features"?

My friend was just complaining last night about having ABS.

[RobbieL2415]

After all, what do you consider "driver assist features"?

My friend was just complaining last night about having ABS.

Any feature that alleviates a driver's responsibility to operate the vehicle safely. So:

-Lane departure assist
-Radar-adaptive cruise control
-Forward collision warning and automatic breaking
-Blind spot monitoring

It does not include safety features that do not directly affect how the driver is operating the vehicle, like:
-ABS
-TCS
-Back-up camera
-Seat belts
-Air bags

Basically, if its doing something I learned how to do in driving school, I don't want it.

[Scott5114]

Lane assist is pretty obnoxious. Most of the time I'm crossing pavement markings intentionally, I don't need to be beeped at when I do it. The car that I rented that had this would at least turn it off when the turn signal is on, but sometimes one needs to change lanes or such without anyone around in particular that needs to be signaled to.

Adaptive cruise is also obnoxious. If I set the cruise to 70, I expect the car to go 70, not slow me down to 45 because there's some idiot in the lane ahead of me. Now there's two idiots in a row, the person in front of me, and my car's OS.

If I ever end up with a car with these features I'm considering paying an electrician to dike all of them out.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm not fan of them myself and often find said features annoying when operating cars I don't own.  Lane  departure warning indicators in particular annoy me when they are in rental cars. 

Then again I'm enough of a dinosaur that I prefer how mechanical steering linkage feels compared to by-wire. 

[jakeroot]

Much like the I-35 crash in Ft Worth that was ostensibly exacerbated by the presence of jersey barriers, safety features likely save more lives than they endanger. But yeah, huge learning curve for some of them, and they're still fairly primitive and a bit annoying. I'm sure that will change in good time.

I'm sure my kids will laugh at some older cars, like the one I drive right now, that not only would let you run over a pedestrian, it couldn't even change gears on its own!

[kphoger]

After all, what do you consider "driver assist features"?

My friend was just complaining last night about having ABS.

Any feature that alleviates a driver's responsibility to operate the vehicle safely. So:

-Lane departure assist
-Radar-adaptive cruise control
-Forward collision warning and automatic breaking
-Blind spot monitoring

It does not include safety features that do not directly affect how the driver is operating the vehicle, like:
-ABS
-TCS
-Back-up camera
-Seat belts
-Air bags

Basically, if its doing something I learned how to do in driving school, I don't want it.

But that was his point.  ABS contravenes ways that he learned to deal with snowy weather.  He claims that it impedes his ability to drive well in adverse weather conditions.

Similarly, what about stability control?  Such as...

Stability control, on the other hand - I've had it for a few years now and still can't get used to that. The first time I ever drove a car with it I damn near went in the ditch  when I corrected while it was correcting and I was intentionally applying a lot of gas on an icy surface (the snow-covered ramp/clear freeway situation which is common in Wyoming a few days after snow storms where you need to get up to speed before hitting the completely cleared freeway from an unplowed ramp) - and needed to get up to speed even without traction. I turn it off now when the roads are snowy/icy.

[Flint1979]

Lane assist is pretty obnoxious. Most of the time I'm crossing pavement markings intentionally, I don't need to be beeped at when I do it. The car that I rented that had this would at least turn it off when the turn signal is on, but sometimes one needs to change lanes or such without anyone around in particular that needs to be signaled to.

Adaptive cruise is also obnoxious. If I set the cruise to 70, I expect the car to go 70, not slow me down to 45 because there's some idiot in the lane ahead of me. Now there's two idiots in a row, the person in front of me, and my car's OS.

If I ever end up with a car with these features I'm considering paying an electrician to dike all of them out.

I drive a 2019 Ford Fusion and it has on the end of the turn signal a button to turn that off but it goes off when the turn signal is on too. I love the adaptive cruise because then I can remain the correct length behind someone and you can adjust the car lengths as well. To me it just takes stress out of driving but I know what you mean. One time not long after I got the car I was driving home from Detroit on I-75 and had my cruise set to 75. I was in Auburn Hills just north of the Baldwin Road exit and a car in front of me was going 43 mph so my car slowed wayyyyyyy down to match that obnoxiously slow speed but what I don't understand is why was that car moving at only 43 mph because there was nothing in front of him preventing him from moving at highway speeds. I don't get it some people just don't belong on an Interstate highway because they have no clue on how to use the Interstate highway system.

[RobbieL2415]

After all, what do you consider "driver assist features"?

My friend was just complaining last night about having ABS.

Any feature that alleviates a driver's responsibility to operate the vehicle safely. So:

-Lane departure assist
-Radar-adaptive cruise control
-Forward collision warning and automatic breaking
-Blind spot monitoring

It does not include safety features that do not directly affect how the driver is operating the vehicle, like:
-ABS
-TCS
-Back-up camera
-Seat belts
-Air bags

Basically, if its doing something I learned how to do in driving school, I don't want it.

But that was his point.  ABS contravenes ways that he learned to deal with snowy weather.  He claims that it impedes his ability to drive well in adverse weather conditions.

Similarly, what about stability control?  Such as...

Stability control, on the other hand - I've had it for a few years now and still can't get used to that. The first time I ever drove a car with it I damn near went in the ditch  when I corrected while it was correcting and I was intentionally applying a lot of gas on an icy surface (the snow-covered ramp/clear freeway situation which is common in Wyoming a few days after snow storms where you need to get up to speed before hitting the completely cleared freeway from an unplowed ramp) - and needed to get up to speed even without traction. I turn it off now when the roads are snowy/icy.

ABS can only enhance one's ability to drive on slippery surfaces. Humans can't pulse the brakes hundreds of times a second to prevent lockup. But humans can shoulder check, leave following distance and maintain a high level of situational awareness.

[RobbieL2415]

Lane assist is pretty obnoxious. Most of the time I'm crossing pavement markings intentionally, I don't need to be beeped at when I do it. The car that I rented that had this would at least turn it off when the turn signal is on, but sometimes one needs to change lanes or such without anyone around in particular that needs to be signaled to.

Adaptive cruise is also obnoxious. If I set the cruise to 70, I expect the car to go 70, not slow me down to 45 because there's some idiot in the lane ahead of me. Now there's two idiots in a row, the person in front of me, and my car's OS.

If I ever end up with a car with these features I'm considering paying an electrician to dike all of them out.

I drive a 2019 Ford Fusion and it has on the end of the turn signal a button to turn that off but it goes off when the turn signal is on too. I love the adaptive cruise because then I can remain the correct length behind someone and you can adjust the car lengths as well. To me it just takes stress out of driving but I know what you mean. One time not long after I got the car I was driving home from Detroit on I-75 and had my cruise set to 75. I was in Auburn Hills just north of the Baldwin Road exit and a car in front of me was going 43 mph so my car slowed wayyyyyyy down to match that obnoxiously slow speed but what I don't understand is why was that car moving at only 43 mph because there was nothing in front of him preventing him from moving at highway speeds. I don't get it some people just don't belong on an Interstate highway because they have no clue on how to use the Interstate highway system.

But if that costs me an extra $2000 then I don't want it. Again, I'm capable of slowing a car down on my own.

[Max Rockatansky]

Regarding the cost of the safety, I don't think that I've ever factored that into a purchase.  It never really mattered to me what the difference in crash ratings were so I guess that I never thought to pay extra for safety features?  I want to say in High School the only requirement I had put upon me regarding safety was ABS for the mechanical advantages described above.

[1995hoo]

My wife's Acura TLX has adaptive cruise control and I love it (recognizing it did have a bit of a learning curve to understand what is likely to trigger it to brake), but I know the cruise control can also be switched to work like a conventional cruise control where it simply tries to hold the set speed ("tries" denoting that it struggles in the mountains). Neither of us has ever switched it, but it makes me wonder whether other cars that have the adaptive cruise feature have the same option of switching to "conventional" cruise control. That would address Scott5114's gripe, although from my point of view I know it has adaptive cruise control and I've therefore come to expect it to slow down if there's a slower car ahead, so one reason I haven't switched it to conventional cruise control is that in the back of my mind I have this concern that I might forget that I switched it, expect the car to slow itself, and then find that it's not slowing. Of course, our other cars don't have adaptive cruise control and I haven't made that mistake when I drive them....

One thing I find useful about the adaptive cruise is that I can use it to keep my speed down on roads where it would be easy to go to fast but on which the volume of traffic is such that I would be reluctant to use the conventional cruise control in our other cars. I frequently use the adaptive cruise control on the Beltway and I-395, for example.

Aside from that, though, my general observation is that depending on when you foresee yourself being in the market for your next car, you may not have a lot of choice as to whether you get these sorts of features, unless you decide to buy an older used car.

[Scott5114]

I drive a 2019 Ford Fusion and it has on the end of the turn signal a button to turn that off but it goes off when the turn signal is on too. I love the adaptive cruise because then I can remain the correct length behind someone and you can adjust the car lengths as well. To me it just takes stress out of driving but I know what you mean.

My first experience with it came on the Kansas Turnpike through the Flint Hills. There were a lot of frustrating games of catch up to a truck going slowly up a hill, have the cruise kill my speed, and then try to get over and get pinned in the right lane by people doing the speed limit passing both of us because my car decided it knows better than me what speed I want to be going. With normal cruise control this situation would have been fine because I could join the traffic at-speed and pass along with them, but I'm not about to step out in front of a line of cars doing 75 mph unless I'm doing something approximating that speed.

It was exacerbated by it being a rental and thus a completely unfamiliar vehicle. I never could figure out how to revert to normal cruise control, if it was even possible; instead I set the detection range to the lowest possible value so that at least I had a chance to get over before it would kick in.

[seicer]

The only features I find useful in my 2016 Subaru Outback (second generation Eyesight package) are the blind-spot warning and adaptive cruise control features. It's made long drives on interstates immensely easier as I can set the cruising speed at say, 75 MPH. I still keep my foot on the brake pedal in emergencies but this simple feature has reduced fatigue on long drives. I also made use of the feature in heavy or stopped traffic to maintain distance and reduce fatigue. The only downside is that paired with the CVT transmission is that the engine will rev needlessly on grades - that's not an issue Eyesight and more of the CVT transmission and its sensitivity.

I did turn off on day one the lane departure warning notifications. It would chime ALL THE TIME when I would drive mountainous roads where I'd frequently be on or over the fog line or centerline.

Not all automation are detrimental. One of the best car automations I've come across is the Pro Trailer Backup Assist feature as part of Ford's Co-Pilot 360 package. While I know how to back up trailers reliably, this feature simply automates the process with near-perfect accuracy. Just turn a knob and it's done.

These features aren't for everyone and they aren't forced on all vehicles. With Subaru, you can opt into the Eyesight package at an added cost. With higher trim levels, it's included.

[NE2]

I hate how cars turn the turn signal off when you curve the other way. I learned in driver's ed to use the turn signal properly and if I want to use the right turn signal for miles and then turn left it's my damn right.

[Rothman]

Rented a car with adaptive cruise control and it was more of a nuisance than help.  Luckily, the car had an option to turn it off.  Just felt like adaptive wasn't helping me maintain my speed well -- seemed to slow down unnecessarily.

[jemacedo9]

But if that costs me an extra $2000 then I don't want it. Again, I'm capable of slowing a car down on my own.

This is the issue:  some of these are standard...but it's still included in the price.  And with it being standard, you don't have the choice not to have it.  So I'm paying for something I don't want. 

[Max Rockatansky]

But if that costs me an extra $2000 then I don't want it. Again, I'm capable of slowing a car down on my own.

This is the issue:  some of these are standard...but it's still included in the price.  And with it being standard, you don't have the choice not to have it.  So I'm paying for something I don't want.

That's the thing, at some point either the market is going to dictate that choice away or it will be mandated away.  Don't forget, we aren't too far removed from a time when people would skimp out on extra air bags and ABS because it cost more as optional equipment.   

[Flint1979]

I drive a 2019 Ford Fusion and it has on the end of the turn signal a button to turn that off but it goes off when the turn signal is on too. I love the adaptive cruise because then I can remain the correct length behind someone and you can adjust the car lengths as well. To me it just takes stress out of driving but I know what you mean.

My first experience with it came on the Kansas Turnpike through the Flint Hills. There were a lot of frustrating games of catch up to a truck going slowly up a hill, have the cruise kill my speed, and then try to get over and get pinned in the right lane by people doing the speed limit passing both of us because my car decided it knows better than me what speed I want to be going. With normal cruise control this situation would have been fine because I could join the traffic at-speed and pass along with them, but I'm not about to step out in front of a line of cars doing 75 mph unless I'm doing something approximating that speed.

It was exacerbated by it being a rental and thus a completely unfamiliar vehicle. I never could figure out how to revert to normal cruise control, if it was even possible; instead I set the detection range to the lowest possible value so that at least I had a chance to get over before it would kick in.

That's the whole thing. You have to get over before it starts slowing you down like for a truck in front of you. I was struggling with mine driving on I-85 through North Carolina in the rain last Thursday. The last stretch for me that night between Richmond and Fredericksburg was pretty rough as it turned to freezing rain and then snow as I got closer to Fredericksburg. Woke up Friday morning to an inch of thick snow. Not nearly as fun driving through that crap.

[RobbieL2415]

But if that costs me an extra $2000 then I don't want it. Again, I'm capable of slowing a car down on my own.

This is the issue:  some of these are standard...but it's still included in the price.  And with it being standard, you don't have the choice not to have it.  So I'm paying for something I don't want.

OK, well then I hope they don't mind me buying used for the rest of my life.

That is my prediction: that the demand for used cars will skyrocket as new cars become more expensive and too complicated to use.

[RobbieL2415]

But if that costs me an extra $2000 then I don't want it. Again, I'm capable of slowing a car down on my own.

This is the issue:  some of these are standard...but it's still included in the price.  And with it being standard, you don't have the choice not to have it.  So I'm paying for something I don't want.

That's the thing, at some point either the market is going to dictate that choice away or it will be mandated away.  Don't forget, we aren't too far removed from a time when people would skimp out on extra air bags and ABS because it cost more as optional equipment.

Again, I bet that will create a large demand for used vehicles.

[Rothman]

I don't think there will be a huge rush to used vehicles just because of new fancy assist technology.  Too many other factors come into play when one decides to buy new or used.

In fact, I'd put those that would buy a car that has tens of thousands of miles on it because it doesn't have lane departure warnings in a small minority.

[RobbieL2415]

I don't think there will be a huge rush to used vehicles just because of new fancy assist technology.  Too many other factors come into play when one decides to buy new or used.

In fact, I'd put those that would buy a car that has tens of thousands of miles on it because it doesn't have lane departure warnings in a small minority.

Then either the price of automobiles needs to come down or a manufacturer needs to refocus their business model into engineering cars built for the sake of excellent driving performance and not wizz-bang stuff. There are cars today that have all the tech you could imagine but drive like poo.

[Jim]

I'll mostly echo some of what's mentioned above about a few features. Lane departure warnings are far more annoying than helpful.  I guess I like to drive just onto the white line sometimes.  It warns often enough that I am sure I'd ignore a real lane departure error.  I don't mind the blind spot warning but still turn and look as I've done for decades.  I first hated the the adaptive cruise and still get annoyed by it when I come up on someone who's going just a little slower and I don't notice that it slowed me down, but I've found it pretty useful to reduce the stress of heavier traffic that slows down and speeds up.

[jeffandnicole]

I don't think there will be a huge rush to used vehicles just because of new fancy assist technology.  Too many other factors come into play when one decides to buy new or used.

In fact, I'd put those that would buy a car that has tens of thousands of miles on it because it doesn't have lane departure warnings in a small minority.

Then either the price of automobiles needs to come down or a manufacturer needs to refocus their business model into engineering cars built for the sake of excellent driving performance and not wizz-bang stuff. There are cars today that have all the tech you could imagine but drive like poo.

You know the "other" acronyms for Ford, Dodge and other cars, right?  They're not recently made up. They were joked about in the 1970's (and probably before) because those cars drove like poo then also.

Basically, the phenome you have is akin to "Grumpy Old Man's Syndrome".  More or less, on the first day you were able to drive, you liked something a certain way, and that's the way it should always be.  You probably wouldn't even consider a manual-transmission car because you're used to automatics.  You probably don't even give a second thought to the passenger-side mirror, even though they were only required over the past few decades.  Your state laws probably inform you of the need to use arm motions for left and right turns, because turn signals weren't always in a car...or reliable. 

You complain about the price of the car due to certain factors, but not other factors.  Backup cameras...they are one of the newest features on a car, and quite expensive.  But you're ok with that.  What's wrong with walking behind your car before you get in, then scanning back and forth while looking in your rearview mirrors as you back up, that has been done for generations?

How about other things in the vehicle, such as bluetooth, usb ports, automatic windows, child safety locks on the rear doors, and internal latch releases in trunks?  Many of these are convenience and safety items that don't have anything to do with driving, but are all relatively recent additions that drive up prices of vehicles.

There's basically no one that would ever say "I have no idea how to drive" as they drive down the road.  In 2019, there were 36,000 deaths, and nearly every one could be attributed to someone who thought they could drive safely.  And 2019 was considered one of the safest years on record.

In regards to what others have mentioned, I'm not a fan of the lane assist feature either, and figured out how to turn it off in my vehicle.  Before that, I turned the sound off and just had the steering wheel vibrate if I drifted over the line.  I gave it several months before I decided it wasn't worthwhile.

Adaptive Cruise Control: I like, but it takes some getting used to.  I can set the distance to be 1, 2, 2.5 or 3 seconds from a vehicle in front of me...I choose 1 second.  While "safety experts" recommend at least 2 seconds from the vehicle in front of you, we forget how far away that distance is.  If someone had the ACC on, but finding themselves getting slowed down by the vehicle in front of them, they're already well within an unsafe tailgating distance.  So because of this, I do merge over to pass sooner than I previously did.  If someone is irritated by the system because they are having issues squeezing between other vehicles to pass, they're basically committing the infraction that would irritate that same person if someone squeezed in front of them.  The result is that these safety features are basically pointing out that many people are indeed bad drivers, even though they didn't realize it, and they really don't like it when that's pointed out in the form of these vehicle's safety features!

But if that costs me an extra $2000 then I don't want it. Again, I'm capable of slowing a car down on my own.

This is the issue:  some of these are standard...but it's still included in the price.  And with it being standard, you don't have the choice not to have it.  So I'm paying for something I don't want.

That's the thing, at some point either the market is going to dictate that choice away or it will be mandated away.  Don't forget, we aren't too far removed from a time when people would skimp out on extra air bags and ABS because it cost more as optional equipment.

Again, I bet that will create a large demand for used vehicles.

Actually, the market has been favoring the opposite as of late.  Using the data below, about 10 years ago, over 3 times more used cars were purchased than new cars.  But that margin has been shrinking to about 2 or 2.5 times.  Some of the reason:  The used car market has become very expensive compared to the past.  Vehicles hold their value longer.  Interest rates on loans tend to favor new car buying too, so the gap of savings buying used isn't the savings it once was.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/183713/value-of-us-passenger-cas-sales-and-leases-since-1990/

No one cares if you buy used vs. new...as the chart shows, more often than not many people buy a used car.  But you'll find many of the features you are avoiding are going to be on those used cars anyway.