I don't foresee myself ever needing a new car with driver assist features

[RobbieL2415]

I don't think there will be a huge rush to used vehicles just because of new fancy assist technology.  Too many other factors come into play when one decides to buy new or used.

In fact, I'd put those that would buy a car that has tens of thousands of miles on it because it doesn't have lane departure warnings in a small minority.

Then either the price of automobiles needs to come down or a manufacturer needs to refocus their business model into engineering cars built for the sake of excellent driving performance and not wizz-bang stuff. There are cars today that have all the tech you could imagine but drive like poo.

You know the "other" acronyms for Ford, Dodge and other cars, right?  They're not recently made up. They were joked about in the 1970's (and probably before) because those cars drove like poo then also.

Basically, the phenome you have is akin to "Grumpy Old Man's Syndrome".  More or less, on the first day you were able to drive, you liked something a certain way, and that's the way it should always be.  You probably wouldn't even consider a manual-transmission car because you're used to automatics.  You probably don't even give a second thought to the passenger-side mirror, even though they were only required over the past few decades.  Your state laws probably inform you of the need to use arm motions for left and right turns, because turn signals weren't always in a car...or reliable. 

You complain about the price of the car due to certain factors, but not other factors.  Backup cameras...they are one of the newest features on a car, and quite expensive.  But you're ok with that.  What's wrong with walking behind your car before you get in, then scanning back and forth while looking in your rearview mirrors as you back up, that has been done for generations?

How about other things in the vehicle, such as bluetooth, usb ports, automatic windows, child safety locks on the rear doors, and internal latch releases in trunks?  Many of these are convenience and safety items that don't have anything to do with driving, but are all relatively recent additions that drive up prices of vehicles.

There's basically no one that would ever say "I have no idea how to drive" as they drive down the road.  In 2019, there were 36,000 deaths, and nearly every one could be attributed to someone who thought they could drive safely.  And 2019 was considered one of the safest years on record.

In regards to what others have mentioned, I'm not a fan of the lane assist feature either, and figured out how to turn it off in my vehicle.  Before that, I turned the sound off and just had the steering wheel vibrate if I drifted over the line.  I gave it several months before I decided it wasn't worthwhile.

Adaptive Cruise Control: I like, but it takes some getting used to.  I can set the distance to be 1, 2, 2.5 or 3 seconds from a vehicle in front of me...I choose 1 second.  While "safety experts" recommend at least 2 seconds from the vehicle in front of you, we forget how far away that distance is.  If someone had the ACC on, but finding themselves getting slowed down by the vehicle in front of them, they're already well within an unsafe tailgating distance.  So because of this, I do merge over to pass sooner than I previously did.  If someone is irritated by the system because they are having issues squeezing between other vehicles to pass, they're basically committing the infraction that would irritate that same person if someone squeezed in front of them.  The result is that these safety features are basically pointing out that many people are indeed bad drivers, even though they didn't realize it, and they really don't like it when that's pointed out in the form of these vehicle's safety features!

But if that costs me an extra $2000 then I don't want it. Again, I'm capable of slowing a car down on my own.

This is the issue:  some of these are standard...but it's still included in the price.  And with it being standard, you don't have the choice not to have it.  So I'm paying for something I don't want.

That's the thing, at some point either the market is going to dictate that choice away or it will be mandated away.  Don't forget, we aren't too far removed from a time when people would skimp out on extra air bags and ABS because it cost more as optional equipment.

Again, I bet that will create a large demand for used vehicles.

Actually, the market has been favoring the opposite as of late.  Using the data below, about 10 years ago, over 3 times more used cars were purchased than new cars.  But that margin has been shrinking to about 2 or 2.5 times.  Some of the reason:  The used car market has become very expensive compared to the past.  Vehicles hold their value longer.  Interest rates on loans tend to favor new car buying too, so the gap of savings buying used isn't the savings it once was.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/183713/value-of-us-passenger-cas-sales-and-leases-since-1990/

No one cares if you buy used vs. new...as the chart shows, more often than not many people buy a used car.  But you'll find many of the features you are avoiding are going to be on those used cars anyway.

1. I know how to and prefer to drive stick, but it's insanely hard to find used cars with manual transmissions, let alone new ones. I'm 27 and have been driving for 11 years, so I'm definitely not a luddite, just someone who puts ride quality and handling above everything else.

2. Backup cameras are federally mandated and because visibility out the back window of modern cars is so poor (thanks to other federal mandates) they are a necessary safety feature. Child safety locks and internal trunk releases are also federally mandated and what I would consider essential. I would not mind paying for them.

3. I always assume no one on the road today has a clue about how to drive. I think driving skills are at an all-time low. No one signals, no one stops before turning on red, people cut across from the center lane to make an exit, people change lanes for no reason and many other are just flat-out lazy. No driver assist feature is going to fix that.

[Henry]

Count me in as another old-school operator. I've survived a half-century without these features, and I'd rather quit driving before I buy a car with those fancy new and confusing technologies.

[Max Rockatansky]

But if that costs me an extra $2000 then I don't want it. Again, I'm capable of slowing a car down on my own.

This is the issue:  some of these are standard...but it's still included in the price.  And with it being standard, you don't have the choice not to have it.  So I'm paying for something I don't want.

OK, well then I hope they don't mind me buying used for the rest of my life.

That is my prediction: that the demand for used cars will skyrocket as new cars become more expensive and too complicated to use.

That's the thing, I don't think that you'll be able to chase that forever in the used car market.  At some point even used cars will have those features built into them unless you want to stick with something that is increasingly aged.  It would be like going out now to find something that a Ford Tempo because you want a tape control deck and not a full set of air bags. 

Regarding increasing prices of new cars, you're probably right.  You look at the cost of a basic car nowadays (compared with inflation) versus at the start of the 1970s and it's way higher.  Features and safety items do have their prices often passed along to the consumer.  Granted the prices of a lot of those items and safety features has come down significantly, plus people are more accepting of paying more for a car.  I do wonder what will happen though of things like the 2035 electric passenger car mandate for California does become a reality.  There will probably a huge initial spike in new car prices and a spike in used car sales. 

[RobbieL2415]

But if that costs me an extra $2000 then I don't want it. Again, I'm capable of slowing a car down on my own.

This is the issue:  some of these are standard...but it's still included in the price.  And with it being standard, you don't have the choice not to have it.  So I'm paying for something I don't want.

OK, well then I hope they don't mind me buying used for the rest of my life.

That is my prediction: that the demand for used cars will skyrocket as new cars become more expensive and too complicated to use.

That's the thing, I don't think that you'll be able to chase that forever in the used car market.  At some point even used cars will have those features built into them unless you want to stick with something that is increasingly aged.  It would be like going out now to find something that a Ford Tempo because you want a tape control deck and not a full set of air bags. 

Regarding increasing prices of new cars, you're probably right.  You look at the cost of a basic car nowadays (compared with inflation) versus at the start of the 1970s and it's way higher.  Features and safety items do have their prices often passed along to the consumer.  Granted the prices of a lot of those items and safety features has come down significantly, plus people are more accepting of paying more for a car.  I do wonder what will happen though of things like the 2035 electric passenger car mandate for California does become a reality.  There will probably a huge initial spike in new car prices and a spike in used car sales.

Or perhaps you'll see Califonrians buying gas cars in AZ, NV, and OR.

[Max Rockatansky]

But if that costs me an extra $2000 then I don't want it. Again, I'm capable of slowing a car down on my own.

This is the issue:  some of these are standard...but it's still included in the price.  And with it being standard, you don't have the choice not to have it.  So I'm paying for something I don't want.

OK, well then I hope they don't mind me buying used for the rest of my life.

That is my prediction: that the demand for used cars will skyrocket as new cars become more expensive and too complicated to use.

That's the thing, I don't think that you'll be able to chase that forever in the used car market.  At some point even used cars will have those features built into them unless you want to stick with something that is increasingly aged.  It would be like going out now to find something that a Ford Tempo because you want a tape control deck and not a full set of air bags. 

Regarding increasing prices of new cars, you're probably right.  You look at the cost of a basic car nowadays (compared with inflation) versus at the start of the 1970s and it's way higher.  Features and safety items do have their prices often passed along to the consumer.  Granted the prices of a lot of those items and safety features has come down significantly, plus people are more accepting of paying more for a car.  I do wonder what will happen though of things like the 2035 electric passenger car mandate for California does become a reality.  There will probably a huge initial spike in new car prices and a spike in used car sales.

Or perhaps you'll see Califonrians buying gas cars in AZ, NV, and OR.

Probably, but that's likely also not sustainable for most to drive four plus hours from major dealers to get a new car.  In theory if I'm still here in California and things stay the status quo I'll be past the 20 year mark at my job and fully vested.  At that point I won't have much incentive to stay so I kind of am curious how the 2035 mandate would affect me as a consumer.  As of now electrics don't do much for me given I have a 38 mile drive to the middle of nowhere.  But that said, I do have the Challenger I wanted bought and paid for.  I kind of wonder if those 2035 era cars would be able to meet my needs by then, but it's difficult to project how my life might be by then. 

[RobbieL2415]

But if that costs me an extra $2000 then I don't want it. Again, I'm capable of slowing a car down on my own.

This is the issue:  some of these are standard...but it's still included in the price.  And with it being standard, you don't have the choice not to have it.  So I'm paying for something I don't want.

OK, well then I hope they don't mind me buying used for the rest of my life.

That is my prediction: that the demand for used cars will skyrocket as new cars become more expensive and too complicated to use.

That's the thing, I don't think that you'll be able to chase that forever in the used car market.  At some point even used cars will have those features built into them unless you want to stick with something that is increasingly aged.  It would be like going out now to find something that a Ford Tempo because you want a tape control deck and not a full set of air bags. 

Regarding increasing prices of new cars, you're probably right.  You look at the cost of a basic car nowadays (compared with inflation) versus at the start of the 1970s and it's way higher.  Features and safety items do have their prices often passed along to the consumer.  Granted the prices of a lot of those items and safety features has come down significantly, plus people are more accepting of paying more for a car.  I do wonder what will happen though of things like the 2035 electric passenger car mandate for California does become a reality.  There will probably a huge initial spike in new car prices and a spike in used car sales.

Or perhaps you'll see Califonrians buying gas cars in AZ, NV, and OR.

Probably, but that's likely also not sustainable for most to drive four plus hours from major dealers to get a new car.  In theory if I'm still here in California and things stay the status quo I'll be past the 20 year mark at my job and fully vested.  At that point I won't have much incentive to stay so I kind of am curious how the 2035 mandate would affect me as a consumer.  As of now electrics don't do much for me given I have a 38 mile drive to the middle of nowhere.  But that said, I do have the Challenger I wanted bought and paid for.  I kind of wonder if those 2035 era cars would be able to meet my needs by then, but it's difficult to project how my life might be by then.

Does the mandate people buying gas cars online and importing them, aka Carvana?

[kphoger]

My first experience with it came on the Kansas Turnpike through the Flint Hills. There were a lot of frustrating games of catch up to a truck going slowly up a hill, have the cruise kill my speed, and then try to get over and get pinned in the right lane by people doing the speed limit passing both of us because my car decided it knows better than me what speed I want to be going. With normal cruise control this situation would have been fine because I could join the traffic at-speed and pass along with them, but I'm not about to step out in front of a line of cars doing 75 mph unless I'm doing something approximating that speed.

I was struggling with mine driving on I-85 through North Carolina in the rain last Thursday. The last stretch for me that night between Richmond and Fredericksburg was pretty rough as it turned to freezing rain and then snow as I got closer to Fredericksburg. Woke up Friday morning to an inch of thick snow. Not nearly as fun driving through that crap.

I first hated the the adaptive cruise and still get annoyed by it when I come up on someone who's going just a little slower and I don't notice that it slowed me down, but I've found it pretty useful to reduce the stress of heavier traffic that slows down and speeds up.

Those are all situations in which I don't use cruise control anyway:  hills, traffic, wet or snowy roads.  I would have turned off regular cruise control by that point anyway, then re-engaged it when the road flattened out, traffic thinned out, or pavement dried out.

That is my prediction: that the demand for used cars will skyrocket as new cars become more expensive and too complicated to use.

That's the thing, I don't think that you'll be able to chase that forever in the used car market.  At some point even used cars will have those features built into them unless you want to stick with something that is increasingly aged.  It would be like going out now to find something that a Ford Tempo because you want a tape control deck and not a full set of air bags.   

How many of these things are standard because they're required by the state?  In such a case, it doesn't even matter if a manufacturer wants to make a car without them.

[RobbieL2415]

My first experience with it came on the Kansas Turnpike through the Flint Hills. There were a lot of frustrating games of catch up to a truck going slowly up a hill, have the cruise kill my speed, and then try to get over and get pinned in the right lane by people doing the speed limit passing both of us because my car decided it knows better than me what speed I want to be going. With normal cruise control this situation would have been fine because I could join the traffic at-speed and pass along with them, but I'm not about to step out in front of a line of cars doing 75 mph unless I'm doing something approximating that speed.

I was struggling with mine driving on I-85 through North Carolina in the rain last Thursday. The last stretch for me that night between Richmond and Fredericksburg was pretty rough as it turned to freezing rain and then snow as I got closer to Fredericksburg. Woke up Friday morning to an inch of thick snow. Not nearly as fun driving through that crap.

I first hated the the adaptive cruise and still get annoyed by it when I come up on someone who's going just a little slower and I don't notice that it slowed me down, but I've found it pretty useful to reduce the stress of heavier traffic that slows down and speeds up.

Those are all situations in which I don't use cruise control anyway:  hills, traffic, wet or snowy roads.  I would have turned off regular cruise control by that point anyway, then re-engaged it when the road flattened out, traffic thinned out, or pavement dried out.

That is my prediction: that the demand for used cars will skyrocket as new cars become more expensive and too complicated to use.

That's the thing, I don't think that you'll be able to chase that forever in the used car market.  At some point even used cars will have those features built into them unless you want to stick with something that is increasingly aged.  It would be like going out now to find something that a Ford Tempo because you want a tape control deck and not a full set of air bags.   

How many of these things are standard because they're required by the state?  In such a case, it doesn't even matter if a manufacturer wants to make a car without them.

Based on my knowledge, the FMVSS mandates:
-Backup cameras
-Traction control*
-Internal trunk latches
-Child safety locks
-Rear defrosters
-Front defrosters
-Seat belts
-Air bags
-And a bunch of other technical stuff
* ABS is not expressly required under the FMVSS, but by the nature of how traction control is implemented, ABS is a necessary component of it.

[Max Rockatansky]

But if that costs me an extra $2000 then I don't want it. Again, I'm capable of slowing a car down on my own.

This is the issue:  some of these are standard...but it's still included in the price.  And with it being standard, you don't have the choice not to have it.  So I'm paying for something I don't want.

OK, well then I hope they don't mind me buying used for the rest of my life.

That is my prediction: that the demand for used cars will skyrocket as new cars become more expensive and too complicated to use.

That's the thing, I don't think that you'll be able to chase that forever in the used car market.  At some point even used cars will have those features built into them unless you want to stick with something that is increasingly aged.  It would be like going out now to find something that a Ford Tempo because you want a tape control deck and not a full set of air bags. 

Regarding increasing prices of new cars, you're probably right.  You look at the cost of a basic car nowadays (compared with inflation) versus at the start of the 1970s and it's way higher.  Features and safety items do have their prices often passed along to the consumer.  Granted the prices of a lot of those items and safety features has come down significantly, plus people are more accepting of paying more for a car.  I do wonder what will happen though of things like the 2035 electric passenger car mandate for California does become a reality.  There will probably a huge initial spike in new car prices and a spike in used car sales.

Or perhaps you'll see Califonrians buying gas cars in AZ, NV, and OR.

Probably, but that's likely also not sustainable for most to drive four plus hours from major dealers to get a new car.  In theory if I'm still here in California and things stay the status quo I'll be past the 20 year mark at my job and fully vested.  At that point I won't have much incentive to stay so I kind of am curious how the 2035 mandate would affect me as a consumer.  As of now electrics don't do much for me given I have a 38 mile drive to the middle of nowhere.  But that said, I do have the Challenger I wanted bought and paid for.  I kind of wonder if those 2035 era cars would be able to meet my needs by then, but it's difficult to project how my life might be by then.

Does the mandate people buying gas cars online and importing them, aka Carvana?

I don't think that's even been decided yet.  The Governor's mandate was for CARB to come up with something to make the 2035 thing happen. 

[jeffandnicole]

To see where we'll be at in 14 years, it may be helpful to look back 14 years.  Those things that are commonplace and being scoffed at here were brand new on the more expensive vehicles in 2007.  Obviously, this is a "for better or worse" type thing, and not every new feature becomes commonplace.  And, as most features go, some consumers will like and appreciate the feature; others will be annoyed by it. 

https://www.autorentalnews.com/69533/carscoms-top-10-new-features-of-2007

2. Backup cameras are federally mandated and because visibility out the back window of modern cars is so poor (thanks to other federal mandates) they are a necessary safety feature. Child safety locks and internal trunk releases are also federally mandated and what I would consider essential. I would not mind paying for them.

I'm not sure I get this reasoning.  You're ok with certain features only because they're federally mandated?  Nearly all safety features are added to vehicles because there's a benefit to having them, which is evident by the total number of roadway deaths declining significantly over the years.

How many of these things are standard because they're required by the state?  In such a case, it doesn't even matter if a manufacturer wants to make a car without them.

When California puts something into law for vehicles, chances are it will become a standard vehicle manufactures will include on all cars sold in the country.  Too difficult to try to limit it just to CA.

[RobbieL2415]

To see where we'll be at in 14 years, it may be helpful to look back 14 years.  Those things that are commonplace and being scoffed at here were brand new on the more expensive vehicles in 2007.  Obviously, this is a "for better or worse" type thing, and not every new feature becomes commonplace.  And, as most features go, some consumers will like and appreciate the feature; others will be annoyed by it. 

https://www.autorentalnews.com/69533/carscoms-top-10-new-features-of-2007

2. Backup cameras are federally mandated and because visibility out the back window of modern cars is so poor (thanks to other federal mandates) they are a necessary safety feature. Child safety locks and internal trunk releases are also federally mandated and what I would consider essential. I would not mind paying for them.

I'm not sure I get this reasoning.  You're ok with certain features only because they're federally mandated?  Nearly all safety features are added to vehicles because there's a benefit to having them, which is evident by the total number of roadway deaths declining significantly over the years.

How many of these things are standard because they're required by the state?  In such a case, it doesn't even matter if a manufacturer wants to make a car without them.

When California puts something into law for vehicles, chances are it will become a standard vehicle manufactures will include on all cars sold in the country.  Too difficult to try to limit it just to CA.

I accept that certain features are federally mandated, not necessarily like them. Mandated features tend to so obviously save lives that its hard not to see them as standard equipment.

[kphoger]

Mandated features tend to so obviously save lives that its hard not to see them as standard equipment.

Don't fewer than ten people a year die from being trapped in the trunk?

[1995hoo]

I used to think a backup camera was no big deal, but I have to say I really love the one in my wife's TLX. That car also has the "proximity sensors" (my father called it "sonar"). The combination of those makes it really easy when you're pulling into a tight parallel parking spot. I don't turn my head when I park that car–I use the camera instead, and I miss it when I parallel park our other cars (well, except the convertible if the top is down, but that's just because having the top down makes it so easy to see behind you).

[seicer]

There wasn't a lot but that was also attributed to a lack of data: https://one.nhtsa.gov/Laws-&-Regulations/Other-Equipment/ci.Report-to-Congress-on-Motor-Vehicle-Trunk-Entrapment.print

It was partly mandated after one brutal summer where 11 children died in the trunk: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2000/10/20/00-27038/federal-motor-vehicle-safety-standards-interior-trunk-release

[seicer]

I used to think a backup camera was no big deal, but I have to say I really love the one in my wife's TLX. That car also has the "proximity sensors" (my father called it "sonar"). The combination of those makes it really easy when you're pulling into a tight parallel parking spot. I don't turn my head when I park that car–I use the camera instead, and I miss it when I parallel park our other cars (well, except the convertible if the top is down, but that's just because having the top down makes it so easy to see behind you).

Same. My first Subaru Outback had the camera in the rear-view mirror which was great because I could backup and keep my eyes on one screen and mirror that were adjacent to each other. My new Outback has it dead center in the media screen and includes linkage to the Eyesight package. It really makes parallel parking a breeze - I can squeeze into tighter parking spaces and ensure that I don't hit other vehicles.

[kphoger]

I used to think a backup camera was no big deal, but I have to say I really love the one in my wife's TLX.

The only car I've driven with a back-up camera was a rental when we drove to Minnesota in December.  In short order, the cameras were all covered in road grime and became pointless.

I don't turn my head when I park that car–I use the camera instead, and I miss it when I parallel park our other cars (well, except the convertible if the top is down, but that's just because having the top down makes it so easy to see behind you).

Driving in reverse is no big deal to me ever since having a job for years that involved driving forklifts.  I can turn my head to do it, I can use the mirrors to do it, no problem.  But I could definitely see using a camera for parallel parking!

[Max Rockatansky]

To see where we'll be at in 14 years, it may be helpful to look back 14 years.  Those things that are commonplace and being scoffed at here were brand new on the more expensive vehicles in 2007.  Obviously, this is a "for better or worse" type thing, and not every new feature becomes commonplace.  And, as most features go, some consumers will like and appreciate the feature; others will be annoyed by it. 

https://www.autorentalnews.com/69533/carscoms-top-10-new-features-of-2007

2. Backup cameras are federally mandated and because visibility out the back window of modern cars is so poor (thanks to other federal mandates) they are a necessary safety feature. Child safety locks and internal trunk releases are also federally mandated and what I would consider essential. I would not mind paying for them.

I'm not sure I get this reasoning.  You're ok with certain features only because they're federally mandated?  Nearly all safety features are added to vehicles because there's a benefit to having them, which is evident by the total number of roadway deaths declining significantly over the years.

How many of these things are standard because they're required by the state?  In such a case, it doesn't even matter if a manufacturer wants to make a car without them.

When California puts something into law for vehicles, chances are it will become a standard vehicle manufactures will include on all cars sold in the country.  Too difficult to try to limit it just to CA.

I accept that certain features are federally mandated, not necessarily like them. Mandated features tend to so obviously save lives that its hard not to see them as standard equipment.

The problem is that the California market tends to have enough of an influence to dictate what happens in the rest of he country.  I recall things like having a car that was "California Emissions Complaint"  as being a selling point.  Automakers probably really willing to do things like they were in the 1970s like when Pontiac sold the 403 Oldsmobile V8 in California as opposed to the Pontiac 400 V8 elsewhere. 

[kphoger]

I recall things like having a car that was "California Emissions Complaint"  as being a selling point. 

I took that literally for a minute when I first read it, and I believed it.  I imagined rednecks in the Missouri Ozarks buying a truck specifically because it wasn't legal in California.

[Max Rockatansky]

I recall things like having a car that was "California Emissions Complaint"  as being a selling point. 

I took that literally for a minute when I first read it, and I believed it.  I imagined rednecks in the Missouri Ozarks buying a truck specifically because it wasn't legal in California.

I mean hey, there were a reason I bought my Challenger when I did and when I lived in Florida before I moved here.  I wouldn't put it past a lot of people to find that appealing.

For full context there is a 7.5% sales tax on new cars in California and an additional 2.5% that can be collected by the city you purchased in:

https://www.salestaxhandbook.com/california/sales-tax-vehicles#:~:text=California%20Sales%20Tax%20on%20Car%20Purchases%3A%20California%20collects,to%202.5%25%2C%20in%20addition%20to%20the%20state%20tax.

Compared to 6% in Florida:

https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a31552949/florida-car-tax/#:~:text=Florida%20collects%20a%20six%20percent%20sales%20tax%20on,you%20are%20responsible%20for%20paying%20the%20sales%20tax.

Now it I recall correctly California can collect the difference in taxes on a new car until it is a year old.  The trick was registering my Challenger in Florida the November before I moved.  I know it was a sneaky move but I had a valid twelve month registration upon my arrival and I was in a military oriented community where an out of state plate wouldn't flag as unusual.  Plus, that Florida registration was a drop in the bucket compared to the $350 plus for California.

On a side note I purposely moved the second week of January 2016 to avoid the State Franchise tax board for 2015.  It didn't make sense to have to deal with all the State income taxes in California in 2015 when Florida doesn't have one.

[CoreySamson]

One thing about driver assist features many of you are missing: the repair costs are comparatively higher with them than without them. For example, some new windshields have cameras in them to help with adaptive cruise and the such. But what happens when a truck in front of you throws up a rock and shatters your windshield? That could be an extra $1000 to repair your windshield because of the additional wiring and recalibration of the camera. I don't really like the sound of that.

Count me in as another person who doesn't really like driver-assist features. Much of what they help with can be at least partly mitigated by just being a safe, defensive driver. That being said, some of them seem like they would be worth it.

Here's my list of features I do and do not like:
Like:
Airbags
ABS/Traction Control
Backup Camera
Auto Emergency Braking/Warning (if it works correctly)
Don't Like:
Lane Departure Assist/Warning
Adaptive Cruise (or even regular cruise!)
Any other self-driving tech

I've said this before and I'll say it again: I wish some automaker would produce a barebones workhorse car or truck for about $20k without all these fancy features. Give me manual cloth seats, an A/C, a heater, and a fuel-efficient engine and I'll be good to go.

[1995hoo]

One thing about driver assist features many of you are missing: the repair costs are comparatively higher with them than without them. For example, some new windshields have cameras in them to help with adaptive cruise and the such. But what happens when a truck in front of you throws up a rock and shatters your windshield? That could be an extra $1000 to repair your windshield because of the additional wiring and recalibration of the camera. I don't really like the sound of that.

....

That's what insurance (typically "comprehensive coverage") is for.

[jakeroot]

3. I always assume no one on the road today has a clue about how to drive. I think driving skills are at an all-time low. No one signals, no one stops before turning on red, people cut across from the center lane to make an exit, people change lanes for no reason and many other are just flat-out lazy. No driver assist feature is going to fix that.

That's a very strange assumption to hold (no one has a clue), and I don't quite understand the basis of your opinion. Are you that type of guy who lets that one driver, who cut you off an hour ago, totally ruin your day?

I'm 25 and I would argue that the vast majority of drivers are actually quite acceptable. Is everyone amazing? Not exactly, but ~98% of drivers are competent enough that I would trust them to drive me from place to place. It's that other 2% who are bad enough that, for whatever reason, they are the only things people remember: that guy who cut you off, that guy who didn't signal, that guy who didn't wave "thanks", that guy who was woefully exceeding the limit without regard for others, so on.

Just try not to get too high and mighty: you may think you're good, but so does everyone else right up until they plow into the back of that Sienna. You want safety features for that one time you fuck up.

[RobbieL2415]

3. I always assume no one on the road today has a clue about how to drive. I think driving skills are at an all-time low. No one signals, no one stops before turning on red, people cut across from the center lane to make an exit, people change lanes for no reason and many other are just flat-out lazy. No driver assist feature is going to fix that.

That's a very strange assumption to hold (no one has a clue), and I don't quite understand the basis of your opinion. Are you that type of guy who lets that one driver, who cut you off an hour ago, totally ruin your day?

I'm 25 and I would argue that the vast majority of drivers are actually quite acceptable. Is everyone amazing? Not exactly, but ~98% of drivers are competent enough that I would trust them to drive me from place to place. It's that other 2% who are bad enough that, for whatever reason, they are the only things people remember: that guy who cut you off, that guy who didn't signal, that guy who didn't wave "thanks", that guy who was woefully exceeding the limit without regard for others, so on.

Just try not to get too high and mighty: you may think you're good, but so does everyone else right up until they plow into the back of that Sienna. You want safety features for that one time you fuck up.

It doesn't ruin my day but it's certainly discourteous. We go through all this effort to license drivers, but then don't scrutinize their driving and/or enforce the traffic laws.

[webny99]

I would argue that the vast majority of drivers are actually quite acceptable. Is everyone amazing? Not exactly, but ~98% of drivers are competent enough that I would trust them to drive me from place to place. It's that other 2% who are bad enough that, for whatever reason, they are the only things people remember: that guy who cut you off, that guy who didn't signal, that guy who didn't wave "thanks", that guy who was woefully exceeding the limit without regard for others, so on.

That's probably fair - although I think it would be closer to 50-50 in terms of whether, as a passenger, I'd be actively paying attention about their driving, and that's not usually a good thing.

[kphoger]

I think driving skills are at an all-time low. No one signals, no one stops before turning on red, people cut across from the center lane to make an exit, people change lanes for no reason and many other are just flat-out lazy. No driver assist feature is going to fix that.

You sure those things used to be better?  Or that there aren't other things that used to be worse than now, but that you just don't notice?