News:

The AARoads Wiki is live! Come check it out!

Main Menu

Is this forum too moderated?

Started by bugo, November 28, 2012, 11:48:53 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Is this forum too moderated?

Yes
13 (17.3%)
No
62 (82.7%)

Total Members Voted: 75

bugo

Post merges.  Changing the wording and meaning of posts.  IMO, this is one of the most overmoderated forums on the internet.  The guitar forums that I frequent have many more posters, and are far less moderated.  I think some of the mods here have too much time on their hands and this is their entire life.  Opinions?


J N Winkler

I don't think the forum is over-moderated as a whole, but in some cases I feel the moderators have been a bit too quick to declare threads "beyond salvage" and lock them permanently.  In many cases it would work better to lock threads temporarily for a cooling-off period (say 48 to 72 hours) to head off situations where the moderator chimes in with a warning, people still "post hot" because there is no enforced cooling-off, and then the moderators are forced to lock the thread permanently.

I also continue to think that the moderation process itself would be less controversial if moderators were elected for fixed-length terms and were thus subject to democratic accountability.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

formulanone

#2
No, I don't think so. There's a large, even disproportionate ratio of moderators, to members, but that doesn't mean the forum is constricting us much. Anything else is set out in the rules, which forbids conversation of certain topics.

I moderate at another board, and it's annoying to see two concurrent threads with the same topic, and it also is rather tricky to permit a second conversation within the same thread (although both cases are typically best handled on a case-by-case basis).

I rarely edit out people's posts (at the other forum), but on the other hand, if the post contains zero worth, it should be deleted altogether; whereas a post with a lot of merit and one goof-up would be a candidate for editing. There's very few questionable posts here, though...the maturity level is greater here.

Maybe it's because I stick to more-lighthearted threads and conversations that I don't see much of this. But the biggest thing I see is that the thread devolves into politics, and even though it may be difficult to completely avoid the topic (no magic road goblins exist), the rules are the rules.

corco

Nah, the moderators are pretty passive here, and most of the stuff they do enforce is just formatting stuff.  That keeps the forum looking nice and fosters a mature attitude and a higher quality of discussion.

Elected moderators aren't really of any value, I don't think, and would probably just stir the pot more than necessary.

bugo

I made several replies to a post.  Each reply was separate, and contained unique content from the other post.  Of course, the AARoads politburo combined all the posts into a single post, which removed all of its meaning and made it look like a mess.  Not to mention a quoting nightmare.  What's the point of doing this?  It added nothing to the conversation and took away some of the power of my posts.  None of the many other forums that I'm a member of do this.  It sounds to me like the moderators have way too much time on their hands.  The two most guilty parties happen to both be good friends of mine, so I'm not picking on somebody because I don't like them, I have a genuine gripe with the way they moderate.

J N Winkler

Quote from: corco on November 28, 2012, 12:33:08 PMElected moderators aren't really of any value, I don't think, and would probably just stir the pot more than necessary.

Have you ever participated in a forum that has moderators elected to fixed-length terms?  If not, then what prompts you to think election of moderators would not be of any value, or would lead to more pot-stirring?
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

formulanone

I don't have a specific problem with multiple posts, but also doesn't take much effort to edit the same post and cut-and-paste multiple quotes.

seicer

Some of the very large city-related forums I frequent hold elections to vote on moderators yearly. Wikipedia holds votes for administrators, with a lengthy Q&A session proceeding it. It's fairly common - but I'm not sure this forum is that big or established to do that yet.

That said, it would be nice to be able to "report a moderator" (of a different forum) if they may get out of line. Being "warned" that "warning" other moderators is a sin is fairly downputting and only breeds bad moderation and a fly-by-night service.

deathtopumpkins

Quote from: Sherman Cahal on November 28, 2012, 02:03:46 PM
That said, it would be nice to be able to "report a moderator" (of a different forum) if they may get out of line. Being "warned" that "warning" other moderators is a sin is fairly downputting and only breeds bad moderation and a fly-by-night service.

If you have an issue with a moderator's action, feel free to take it up with them or an admin via PM. This is a general rule on any forum. If it's a legitimate concern the staff will usually be very willing to help work something out.




bugo, It's very easy to separate a post into multiple parts that still retain different ideas, like this post I'm writing right now. I broke it up with horizontal rules and a quote if necessary to declare who each section is intended for. A post need not be limited to only one idea.
The traditional reason for merging double posts is to limit people's post counts. I've been on other sites where people try to artificially inflate their post count to make themselves seem a more important member - i.e. the more posts I have, the more important I am.
Then there's also the issue of excess junk like having to scroll past your signature and avatar and profile information 9 times instead of just 1.




Re:This whole thread,
This is the least moderated forum I post on. Discussions get out of line far too often, and drama always ensues if anyone says so. Most other forums I frequent will just delete something that didn't need to be posted, no questions asked.
Disclaimer: All posts represent my personal opinions and not those of my employer.

Clinched Highways | Counties Visited

bugo

You must post to some forums with fascist moderators then.  A good moderator is rarely seen.  There are hardly any threads on this board that haven't been tinkered with by a moderator.  It beats all I've ever seen.

deathtopumpkins

Maybe that's not the fault of the moderators, but rather can be blamed on having a rowdy bunch who post here?
Disclaimer: All posts represent my personal opinions and not those of my employer.

Clinched Highways | Counties Visited

bugo

No, because this group is very respectful and there are very few fights.  This one lays squarely on the moderators.  They simply have too much time on their hands and the power has gone to their heads.  Look, I was a mod here for a while.  I barely did anything.  I didn't think I needed to.  Like I said, the best moderator is an invisible one.

1995hoo

I don't think there's anything wrong with merging posts and with expecting users to consolidate their replies whenever feasible. It simply clutters up the board less. Sure, sometimes two replies in a row can be no big deal; most often I think that's the type of thing that happens when you reply without having read the whole thread, or without realizing there's another page to a thread, and then after you post your comments you see another post to which you want to reply and so you do. That's understandable and I think if it's an occasional thing, it's not really any big deal–although, as "formulanone" said, it's very easy to edit a previous comment to include your next post by hitting "Ctrl-A" to select all the text, "Ctrl-X" to cut it, then click "Modify" on your other post and go to the end and paste in the text. (I've always thought sometimes people don't do this because they think someone might be replying to a post already made and that the edited thoughts might get lost.)

Obviously it's also perfectly legitimate to have multiple posts in a row if your comments are made a couple of days apart, or maybe even several hours apart if you have something significantly new that wouldn't fit in the previous post. The "Northern Virginia HOT lanes" thread has been a good example of that because it was a discussion of four new express lanes that just opened less than two weeks ago, so understandably as we drove them for the first few times we had various new comments and updates.

I think part of what becomes a nuisance for people is when you get six replies in a row by the same person responding to already-existing posts one at a time instead of consolidating them. There's something to the idea of reading the thread and trying to respond to multiple things together. It might even change what you were going to say.

I agree that on the whole I think this forum is not highly moderated at all in terms of controlling what people say, as opposed to managing the way stuff is posted. That is, I've been on a forum where the moderators imposed word filters to screen out any profanity and they went overboard to the point that if you used a single objectionable word, it censored any other perfectly legitimate word that contained an objectionable set of letters–e.g., if you tried to say "shit," it censored that and then it would also censor the word "Saturday" because it contains "turd." As "deathtopumpkins" notes, on some sites they simply delete things or lock them, and I've visited sites where moderators are quick to ban people (although, to her credit, I also someone who runs a hockey chat site and always posts a sticky thread explaining the reasons for banning whenever she does it).

Seems to me that most posters here (with the notable exception of the late, unlamented ethanman62187) tend to be more rational and the discussion more mature such that content-based moderation isn't really needed. No doubt a large part of that has to do with the nature of the subject matter on this forum–I mean, a forum where people discuss roads and road signs is going to attract a very different crowd from a forum discussing college football, right?!

I can also refer you to examples of sites that need forum moderators to become more active, especially a local Northern Virginia forum where half the threads consist of racist sniping back and forth. Ugh.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

rickmastfan67

#13
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on November 28, 2012, 04:17:59 PM
bugo, It's very easy to separate a post into multiple parts that still retain different ideas, like this post I'm writing right now. I broke it up with horizontal rules and a quote if necessary to declare who each section is intended for. A post need not be limited to only one idea.
The traditional reason for merging double posts is to limit people's post counts. I've been on other sites where people try to artificially inflate their post count to make themselves seem a more important member - i.e. the more posts I have, the more important I am.
Then there's also the issue of excess junk like having to scroll past your signature and avatar and profile information 9 times instead of just 1.

I'm with death here about 9 posts in a row.  Now, it those posts were made over 9 days, then yes, I'd leave them alone and not merge them (I will never merge something as long as there is 24 hours between the posts).  As for 9 posts in a row in a span of 9 minutes, I'll merge those every time.  There is an edit button for a reason, plus, when you're making the original post, if you scroll down some, there are links to insert quotes from other posts with ease.

Oh, and BTW, the mod we have installed that allows us to merge posts, allows us to auto-merge if we want to without mod interaction when double posts happen.  But we leave that option off because we trust everybody here and only merge stuff when it's warranted.

Takumi

I don't know if SMF has the option, but some forums I'm on will have a "multi-quote" option, with the multiple selected quotes automatically appearing when the poster hits the reply button. Having said that, no, I don't think the moderators over-moderate here.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
Olive Garden must be stopped.  I must stop them.

Don't @ me. Seriously.

rickmastfan67

Quote from: Takumi on November 28, 2012, 05:02:49 PM
I don't know if SMF has the option, but some forums I'm on will have a "multi-quote" option, with the multiple selected quotes automatically appearing when the poster hits the reply button.

No, SMF doesn't have that option built in.  There are some mods out there to add that feature, but we don't have any of them installed.

english si

#16
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on November 28, 2012, 04:17:59 PMThis is the least moderated forum I post on. Discussions get out of line far too often, and drama always ensues if anyone says so. Most other forums I frequent will just delete something that didn't need to be posted, no questions asked.
I think that SSC is less moderated (it seems almost anarchist, though a word will silence) and that SABRE, while fixing bad formatting and doing some moving and splitting of threads is also less strict. But, even so, this isn't that heavy handed - how long did it take before the purple broke out reminding of the forum rules after bugo's 9 posts? He was allowed another two rants at least.

Also, here off topic stuff is moved, not deleted. Moderators discuss their reasons behind changes. It's far from heavy handed, though it's not as liberal as others.

Roadsguy

I definitely hope you're not the one person who voted "Yes," Bugo. :rolleyes:
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

bugo

I thought you guys had more backbone than you do.  I guess that's why you are "roadgeeks" (and I'm not.)

realjd

The moderation here is transparent which is more than I can say for many other forums I frequent. And I've never had any issues with them editing my posts, other than fixing a formatting issue like a missing end-quote tag.

I will say that much of my posting is done from an iPad which makes replying to multiple comments in a single reply near impossible. I am guilty of replying two or three separate times in a row to different posts. The mods have been tolerant of that in my experience.

1995hoo

Quote from: bugo on November 28, 2012, 05:30:04 PM
I thought you guys had more backbone than you do.  I guess that's why you are "roadgeeks" (and I'm not.)

You asked for opinions and people are giving them. If you don't like the opinions, then don't read the thread.

I'm sure what I do for a living factors into my outlook, but I recognize that it's a privately-owned forum and that the people who own and operate it can run it however they see fit. You don't have any First Amendment rights in a private forum and the solution if you don't like the way a forum is run is simple–you either suck it up and accept it or you leave. I've known people who have argued with moderators and then asked that their accounts be deleted (although usually the posts remain).

BTW, regarding moderators fixing quotes and such, everyone makes mistakes occasionally (especially if you're posting via mobile device, and even more so if that device is a phone and not a tablet), but there is a sticky notice at the top of the forum admonishing users to take care when dealing with quoted material and offering help on how to do it.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

MVHighways

When I ==USUALLY== have more than one thing to say I make a new line, type [hr], and start typing on the next line, like this:


See?

florida

Quote from: bugo on November 28, 2012, 05:30:04 PM
I thought you guys had more backbone than you do.  I guess that's why you are "roadgeeks" (and I'm not.)

Give this a try http://survivorsucks.com/forums/79/Off-Topic
So many roads...so little time.

Stephane Dumas

As someone in the classic tv show "You Can't Do that on Television" said: "I don't know" and got green slime dumped on the head.

I don't think then AARoads is too moderated.  I guess I might made some ennemies on Toonzone if I said then AARoads is more open-minded then Toonzone forums. ^^;

US71

Quote from: bugo on November 28, 2012, 05:30:04 PM
I thought you guys had more backbone than you do.  I guess that's why you are "roadgeeks" (and I'm not.)

Comrade:
I will ask that you NOT lump us all together as you appear to be doing.  :eyebrow:

Oh, and it's "Road Scholar", thank you very much.  :spin:
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.