Atlanta

[Gnutella]

I took a little roadgeeking drive today. First stop: GA 316. The GA 20 bridge is tantalizingly close to completion-- the lanes are painted-- but the approaches need the top coat of asphalt. I took a couple of pics, but I'm not even gonna bother with posting them. Oh: except for this:


How many times have I driven past this and not noticed? This sign is within the posted construction limits, but the button copy arrow sign just beyond isn't. Dare we hope that it'll survive?

I drove out to Buford two weekends ago, and the new overpass for GA 20/GA 124 over GA 316 was open. It's magnificent. They're going to have to repave north of the overpass, though, because of all the grooves in the asphalt from the lines that were stripped away, and the ruts from the tires. They all run diagonally across the road there.

I also went to Buford this weekend, and they've excavated away the old GA 20/GA 124 alignment, so you can now see the whole overpass from the east, and you can see through the overpass from the west. They've already put down some mainline concrete on the east side of the overpass as well. No word on how the Collins Hill Road overpass is progressing since I typically don't make it down that far.

By the way, I'm going to save that picture because I seldom ever make it down that way anymore, not because I'm a fan of button-copy signage -- I'm originally from Pennsylvania, which hung onto its nasty dark green button-copy signs for at least a decade too long before going almost immediately to Clearview -- but because it brings back memories from when I went to Duluth for my weekend fun instead of Buford.

[Tom958]

I wouldn't call it magnificent. It's just another boring AASHTO beam bridge. 

Speaking of which, there was a golden age of poured in place trapezoidal box girders in Georgia in the late '70's-early/mid '80's. Many were built under the Freeing the (Atlanta) Freeways program, as well as on the final sections of Georgia's Interstates: I-675, I-575, and a few places on I-185. Now, though, some of them on I-575 are being replaced by AASHTO beam bridges. To me, the box girders are much better looking, and the spans are often very long. I wish that they were more common in Georgia, though they are difficult to widen. IMO, the GA 20-GA 316 bridge would've been a good place to build one, since there was no need to maintain traffic under it during construction and the profile of the new bridge was essentially at grade, which would've allowed the forms to be placed with little falsework.

Here's a Georgia oddity: At the I-185-US 80 interchange in Columbus, the CD roads for US 80 are on uniform depth steel beams, but the mainline bridges have haunched beams. Wassup with that?

[Gnutella]

Here's a Georgia oddity: At the I-185-US 80 interchange in Columbus, the CD roads for US 80 are on uniform depth steel beams, but the mainline bridges have haunched beams. Wassup with that?

Maybe one overpass is older than the other? Maybe two different contractors did the work? Maybe they reduced the cost after one of the overpasses came in over budget? Could be anything.

[Tom958]

Here's a Georgia oddity: At the I-185-US 80 interchange in Columbus, the CD roads for US 80 are on uniform depth steel beams, but the mainline bridges have haunched beams. Wassup with that?

Maybe one overpass is older than the other? Maybe two different contractors did the work? Maybe they reduced the cost after one of the overpasses came in over budget? Could be anything.

I think the CD bridges were built first. You can see a difference in color between the mainline and the CD bridges-- I think the CD's must be made of weathering steel while the mainline ones are made of higher-strength steel painted brown.

[mrsman]

FWIW as I get older I'm appreciating APL more; even for younger folks deciphering the stipples at a complex exit or on a wide road can be difficult at highway speeds. I do think FHWA should have adopted the Canadian (or at least Ontario) design that allows omitting the left-hand through lanes to make APL option lane signage simpler, though.

That's right.  The stipple lane signs are OK when the road is no wider than 4 lanes.  But when it's wider, as it is in Metro-Atlanta (especially on the connector) You spend so much time counting lanes to be sure that you are in the correct lane. 

I agree with your suggestion to adopt the Ontario practice.  For the vast majority of exits on a 6 lane freeway, it's usually just the right lane or the right two lanes that will exit.  There is no need for 6 arrows, when the 4 left lanes stay on the main freeway.

[Tom958]

Also the Interstate 75/Brighton road interchange in South GA will be upgraded.
http://www.walb.com/story/25692096/i-75brighton-road-interchange-to-be-made-safer

That's an enduring mystery for me: how it was decided to do this in some places and not others. Georgia has replaced a whole lot of interchange bridges built in the mid 60's (on I-85 all the way from Barrow County to the SC line, for instance, where every such bridge that hadn't already been widened was replaced in the 00's) but left the pre-1960 bridges on I-75 south of Ashburn or so mostly in place, even through the mega-reconstruction between Valdosta and Tifton. The bridges that were replaced were ones that weren't at interchanges. Replacing the bridges now will be more difficult since the former median has now been appropriated for traffic lanes and shoulders. What was GDOT thinking?

On an unrelated topic, here are those new APL signs I've been ranting about. This one's just south of the Tenth Street bridge. Note that this APL sign doesn't have an arrow per lane. 


And another, the last before the split. There's a third between these two, but my photo of it sucked. To the right is the relatively new offramp to 17th Street, the last portion of which is elevated above the onramp from 14th/16th to I-75 northbound.

I don't like the LEFT placards for exits-- they're redundant when used with indexed exit tabs. With an APL or big arrow sign, they're even more redundant.


The 75-85 split was built and originally striped for an optional lane-- four for 85, three for 75-- but was restriped to its current configuration decades ago. The fourth lane for 85 is reintroduced on the right just beyond the painted gore. In theory an optional lane would be better, but it wasn't.

[Eth]

On my way home from work today, I saw what appear to be the new variable speed limit signs on the east side I-285 outer loop between I-20 and Covington Hwy. Not operational yet and currently covered.

[Zzonkmiles]

How much interest is there among Atlanta residents for there to be a second loop around the metro area maybe 20 miles out from I-285? I'd imagine such a road would be quite popular, but I don't know how residents in the potentially affected areas would feel.

[adventurernumber1]

How much interest is there among Atlanta residents for there to be a second loop around the metro area maybe 20 miles out from I-285? I'd imagine such a road would be quite popular, but I don't know how residents in the potentially affected areas would feel.

I am not a resident of Atlanta or any of its suburbs but I live close and I would love to see an outer beltway! Atlanta's metro area is growing fast and an outer beltway would be very nice. It could also help traffic that were to get on another interstate in Atlanta. For example, traffic going southbound on I-75 in north GA planning to connect onto I-20 and go westbound into Alabama could take the outer beltway southwest from I-75 to I-20 avoiding Atlanta's city traffic and getting where they need to go. The outer beltway would definitely be something I'd like to see come along, and it has been proposed for decades.

[freebrickproductions]

I'm friends with a person who lives in the Atlanta metro on Skype, and they aren't a big fan of the idea.

[Zzonkmiles]

I'm friends with a person who lives in the Atlanta metro on Skype, and they aren't a big fan of the idea.

Did your friend give a reason why? I-285 is great and all, but traffic is very slow at times, especially in the northern half of the loop. I think the segment between I-75 and I-85 is the worst. I think a lot of long-distance drivers who don't need to go through Atlanta would be very appreciative. But I also understand that any new highways there would likely come at the expense of existing neighborhoods.

[2Co5_14]

For those of you new to the discussion, check out the beginning of this thread to see more info on the Atlanta Outer Perimeter.

I was thinking about Atlanta, and decided to check it out better on Google Earth. The city's urbanized area is just massive. It generally sprawls 30 miles from the city center in all directions, with some areas being as far as 50 miles from downtown (Gainesville, Canton).

I was wondering, since the suburbanization of Atlanta didn't really stop at the perimeter (I-285), isn't there a need for a second, much larger beltway? I measured it on Google Earth, and came out with this. Remember, some areas would still be outside this second beltway, especially in the north.

[Grzrd]

check out the beginning of this thread to see more info on the Atlanta Outer Perimeter.

This March 5, 2014 article reports that GDOT has plans to upgrade GA 20 between GA 400 and I-575, but some people suspect the project is actually a revival of the Northern Arc and/or Outer Perimeter:

The Georgia Department of Transportation (GDOT), with federal highway funds, is planning future, long-term improvements to Ga. 20 that could result in the widening of the existing road or the building of a new road either to the north or the south of the present state highway.
Although, according to draft routing maps released by GDOT, the project roughly parallels the formerly proposed Northern Arc route, GDOT officials said the project is not a resurrection of the northern outer perimeter project (around Atlanta), first proposed in the 1990s. This project, they said, covers only the 25 miles between Interstate 575 and Ga. 400, while the Northern Arc study in the early 2000s stretched from I-575 on the west to Interstate 85 on the east. ....
Robert Chambers, a resident of The Shoals at Arbor Creek and chairman of the Hwy20 Coalition ....
who has a background in business land acquisition, eminent domain and mapping, said, in his opinion, the plan is a resurrection of the Northern Arc.
"If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's most likely a duck," he quipped. He said his personal opinion is, looking at Atlanta Regional Commission documents, Ga. 20 is being designed to handle truck traffic in Atlanta between the western and eastern interstates, lessening the burden on Interstate 285, the perimeter highway. He also said he personally thinks the southern route identified by GDOT would serve that purpose the best.

Yeah, everybody knows about the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc. Fighting against it was the last gasp of my career as an activist.
Much of the right of way between GA 400 and GA 316 has long been acquired, and Gwinnett hopes to build its segment as an extension of Sugarloaf Parkway, presumably with no trucks allowed. But there's no funding for that, either. That said, the new bridge carrying GA 324 over I-85 is clearly designed to accommodate CD roads from Sugarloaf Parkway's prospective interchange, so it's more than a gleam in someone's eye.

Here's 324 crossing I-85, headed northbound. The bridge is so huge that I shot only half of it-- it extends so far beyond the treeline at the edge of existing I-85 that I'd need a panorama to show the whole thing. There's an enormous single span of the entirety of existing I-85, plus huge reservations for CD roads on both sides.

Quack?

[lordsutch]

Honestly some sort of freeway on the GA 20 corridor is going to be necessary sooner or later, at least from I-75 to I-85. Probably should have bitten the bullet and done it at the time despite the opposition, although now at least there's a better chance it will be tolled and not get choked immediately.

[adventurernumber1]

Honestly some sort of freeway on the GA 20 corridor is going to be necessary sooner or later, at least from I-75 to I-85. Probably should have bitten the bullet and done it at the time despite the opposition, although now at least there's a better chance it will be tolled and not get choked immediately.

I agree. The northern suburbs REALLY need it.

[Tomahawkin]

Does Anyone know when the variable speed limits are to take effect on IH 285. The signs have been set up on the Jersey barriers. Also, for some reason they are deciding to waste taxpayer money and replace the signage on certain parts of the Interstate (Lavista road, Lawrenceville HWY. Glenwood Dr, etc. The new signage has the larger fonts...

[lordsutch]

Does Anyone know when the variable speed limits are to take effect on IH 285. The signs have been set up on the Jersey barriers. Also, for some reason they are deciding to waste taxpayer money and replace the signage on certain parts of the Interstate (Lavista road, Lawrenceville HWY. Glenwood Dr, etc. The new signage has the larger fonts...

GDOT's website says they're switching on the new signs in September.

[afone]

Construction will begin this fall on the $834 million reversible toll lane project in Cobb County. It will add four new exits to the highway and should be complete by 2018. I certainly hope this project, along with its counterpart of the south side of the metro, help traffic on I-75.
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2014/08/834m-reversible-lane-project-to-add-4-exits-in.html

[adventurernumber1]

Construction will begin this fall on the $834 million reversible toll lane project in Cobb County. It will add four new exits to the highway and should be complete by 2018. I certainly hope this project, along with its counterpart of the south side of the metro, help traffic on I-75.
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2014/08/834m-reversible-lane-project-to-add-4-exits-in.html

Hm. I never knew about that. That sounds like an interesting project.

[afone]

Another sign goof by a GDOT contractor
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2014/08/downtown-connector-sign-leading-drivers-to-georgia.html

[Tom958]

Here's another GDOT classic. Aesthetic issues aside, this sign is also about 1/2 mile before the actual exit ramp  :



And here's a plug for my latest Georgia-related photo feature.

[adventurernumber1]

How do you like this routing I made of a possible outer beltway in the Atlanta Metropolitan Area. It could be better, it's just like this since I'm zoomed out so far, but still. http://prntscr.com/4evlxf

[Tomahawkin]

GDOT.GOV. just mentioned that constuction on the 285/400 Interchange is set to begin in 2016 and could take 46 months to complete. That is a hell of a long time, especially considering all the lane closures that will be involved. Not to mention it has to tie in with the Interchange additions that will supposedly be added to the Cobb Cloverleaf (wont be sufficient enough to handle the game crowds  ) when construction on the new Braves Stadium gets going...more info at gdot.gov

[ATLRedSoxFan]

GDOT.GOV. just mentioned that constuction on the 285/400 Interchange is set to begin in 2016 and could take 46 months to complete. That is a hell of a long time, especially considering all the lane closures that will be involved. Not to mention it has to tie in with the Interchange additions that will supposedly be added to the Cobb Cloverleaf (wont be sufficient enough to handle the game crowds  ) when construction on the new Braves Stadium gets going...more info at gdot.gov

Ah, just what metro Atlanta needs... More work on the top end Perimeter.. This is the time they need to get some light rail involved or something besides more pavement.

[Tom958]

GDOT.GOV. just mentioned that constuction on the 285/400 Interchange is set to begin in 2016 and could take 46 months to complete. That is a hell of a long time, especially considering all the lane closures that will be involved. Not to mention it has to tie in with the Interchange additions that will supposedly be added to the Cobb Cloverleaf (wont be sufficient enough to handle the game crowds  ) when construction on the new Braves Stadium gets going...more info at gdot.gov

Ah, just what metro Atlanta needs... More work on the top end Perimeter.. This is the time they need to get some light rail involved or something besides more pavement.

Big .pdf drawings of I-285 and GA 400 just north of 285and further north, because:

In order to achieve maximum efficiency, economic benefit and cost-effectiveness for the region, the Department now proposes to construct the two stand-alone projects as one Design-Build-Finance (DBF), Public-Private Partnership (P3). The combined design-build cost is estimated at $1.056 billion.

Well, that's interesting as hell. I guess the whole revive285 thing with HOT lanes and a transit corridor is dead; it doesn't look like they're allowing any room for them. It appears that the existing bridges at Roswell Road and Ashford Dunwoody will remain (though with two lane roadways crammed between the end bents and the abutments), and the mainline striped down to 8 lanes. Oh, well, whaddya want for a billion dollars?