Transitioning from Work-From-Home back to going to the office

[index]

Obviously I'm not at the age where I'd have any job that would do this, but I will say that I hope that workplaces don't continue to do this after COVID where you have work-from-home-only job offerings or a mixed schedule in which some days you're regularly expected to work from home.

Based on how I did with remote classes, I cannot focus at home, and if I'm not leaving the house and in some sort of routine, at least during the weekdays, I can't really keep up with myself. I start to slip on hygeine, taking my medications when I should (or, more often than not, forgetting them entirely), getting in the right sleep cycle, etc etc. And I also start to binge eat.

Basically, I become a massive slob that doesn't put any effort into anything. I am an introvert and sometimes getting out there sucks, but just being at home all the time for literally everything is really, really bad for my health and well-being.

I've been working from home for over a decade now; I got started because after the local office moved I was spending 90+ minutes commuting each day only to sit in front of a computer and talk to people in other places by phone and email.

The trick to working from home is to be able to have a regular schedule, a dedicated space or "something" where you and others in your environment know that you're "at work".  Some people can do it better than others...and that's OK.

I'm looking forward to being able to go back into my office (now in Montréal).  But I'm hoping that a greater tolerance for WFH, and some of the communication changes that happened because of the pandemic lockdowns last.

This was probably the biggest point of failure in terms of focus. The only option I had was my room, and it didn't help that I have a father who, for reasons I don't know, doesn't understand the concept brought about by the pandemic that always at home does not mean always available (despite trying to explain this to him). Constantly knocking on my door, asking me to pour him drinks and bring them to him or do the dishes while I was in class.

That and, when you're around people who don't know how to not make noise, constantly "signing" (code word, yelling) in the halls whenever they're walked down, slamming doors, cabinets, plates, and sneezing as loud as humanly possible. Having to spend over a year around...that...gave me some serious cabin fever and drove me to the point of rage every time I was interrupted. Not a good recipe for focus. I am not sure how well I could form a routine while being constantly at home though. I get complacent fast.

One thing I also forgot to mention is, it also doesn't help that I constantly, and I mean constantly miss video visit appointment dates. I just can't do those. If I'm doing an appointment, it has to be somewhere I physically need to go or I'm just going to forget about it. One of my medications is a controlled substance, I missed an appointment about it, and now I'm going to be out of it for at least two months because the doctor I need to see to keep the flow of it going is constantly booked through. It is out of necessity due to the pandemic, but I seriously hope that stuff isn't here to stay like a lot of people are predicting it will be. The internet just can't replace everything for some people. If people want options, give them options but I really need to be doing things the old way.

[Rothman]

Constantly knocking on my door, asking me to pour him drinks and bring them to him or do the dishes while I was in class.

This doesn't sound good.  I don't drink, but I never asked my kids to pour me anything, let alone constantly.

[index]

Constantly knocking on my door, asking me to pour him drinks and bring them to him or do the dishes while I was in class.

This doesn't sound good.  I don't drink, but I never asked my kids to pour me anything, let alone constantly.

To be fair to him, drinks was just an example of one of many of the various things he'd do when knocking on my door - although there were a handful times he'd be seemingly go out of his way to be a pest about it. It wasn't common but it made me seriously think "WTF?" when he did do those sorts of things. Shortly after I turned 13, I had got a really bad case of pneumonia and I was completely passed out on the couch. It was one of those sicknesses where you're so messed up you literally can't even think (I think this is called brain fog), and I'd violently cough even by trying to change my position when I was laying down, could hardly talk, was constantly groaning, could hardly breathe, and a lot of other not-so-fun stuff. Not to mention they had me on some strong antibiotics with their own side effects.

He comes in from the back door from his little shed he watches TV in, standing in the doorway, and tells me to grab him a beer from the fridge, despite the fact I was obviously sick and had came back from the doctor a few days before (that he took me to) with a fever of 104 degrees. I went up and got him one despite being in pretty severe pain and discomfort, because he wouldn't budge. He hasn't done anything nearly as ridiculous as that since, but I still somehow remember that despite all the brain fog and literally losing track of time. I don't know how many days I was out.

[Rothman]

That's messed up.

[Avalanchez71]

I have been working from home where there is no payroll (occupational tax). The town where my office is located levies a 2% tax. So in the 14-and-counting months since I've been working from home, I've had a de facto 2 percent raise, which is more of a raise than I have had since 2007. I won't enjoy having less take-home pay when I have to start paying the payroll tax.

I had no idea there were places where cities could charge payroll tax. As far as I know, that's not legal in Oklahoma.

I want to say that I think Memphis, TN was musing about setting up a payroll tax once upon a time.  I think the legislature put a stop to that one.

[GaryV]

From the possible arrangements I've heard, I'm not enthused about returning to the office.  The thing I hear most about is "hybrid", where you work from home some days and go in on others.  You wouldn't have an assigned space in the office, but would reserve a "hotel" desk.  No thank you.  I don't want to haul my stuff to and from work on the days I'm working there.  I want a space where I can keep things - simple stuff like pens and paper, reference materials, coffee cup, a fleece for those days that it's cold, etc.

Generally though they are so nuts about cleanliness now why would they do that?

Want to do what?  Hybrid?  Because the cubicles we had were too close together.  When they spread people out, there's not enough room for the whole staff in the office.

[Scott5114]

Obviously I'm not at the age where I'd have any job that would do this, but I will say that I hope that workplaces don't continue to do this after COVID where you have work-from-home-only job offerings or a mixed schedule in which some days you're regularly expected to work from home.

I don't see how it would be an issue if it's listed on the job opening for the position that it is work from home, or work from office, or both. Then people can decide whether to apply or not based on whether they like that kind of job. If I could find a work-from-home job that didn't require a college degree I'd pounce on it.

What causes a problem is when an employee has an expectation of certain working conditions and then gets forced into doing something else. Fundamentally it's the same problem as if you hired someone to be a secretary and then started demanding they move concrete blocks all day.

[texaskdog]

From the possible arrangements I've heard, I'm not enthused about returning to the office.  The thing I hear most about is "hybrid", where you work from home some days and go in on others.  You wouldn't have an assigned space in the office, but would reserve a "hotel" desk.  No thank you.  I don't want to haul my stuff to and from work on the days I'm working there.  I want a space where I can keep things - simple stuff like pens and paper, reference materials, coffee cup, a fleece for those days that it's cold, etc.

Generally though they are so nuts about cleanliness now why would they do that?

Want to do what?  Hybrid?  Because the cubicles we had were too close together.  When they spread people out, there's not enough room for the whole staff in the office.

Our company is weird they are keeping the mask thing up (outside our cubicles) but reopening the office Wednesday.  Some departments coming back Wednesday, some in fall, some not at all.  but they are more nuts about wiping everything in common areas down. 

[Flint1979]

I honestly don't think I would like working from home but what I do I can't work from home anyway.

[Duke87]

The trick to working from home is to be able to have a regular schedule, a dedicated space or "something" where you and others in your environment know that you're "at work".

A lot of people say this but I find the opposite to be true. From my perspective the trick is: don't try to make working from home resemble working in an office. Embrace that it is a radically different way of doing things, that you can have tons of flexibility in where and when you actually work, and enjoy the freedom this provides.

As such, I don't quite adhere to a set schedule other than that I usually only work Monday through Friday and I vaguely try to be around during the majority of "normal business hours". But I will absolutely go out to run errands in the middle of the day to take advantage of stores being less crowded during times when poor saps with fixed schedules aren't able to be there. I will also absolutely sometimes be online and emailing people at 4 AM if I find myself having trouble sleeping (don't worry, I don't expect an immediate response to those ).
And while I do the majority of my work from the dining room table, I will sometimes move to another location in the house for an hour or two. I can also work from locations other than my own home so long as wifi is available, though I don't do this unless I have a specific reason to (e.g. some work is getting done on my car and it'll take a couple hours, so in the meantime...)


At any rate, I am also in the group of people who was working from home before it was cool (since 2014!). I am willing to go to an office for an in-person meeting occasionally, whether it is local, on the other side of the country, or anywhere in between. But I am not interested in showing up to one purely for the sake of compliance to some arbitrary routine.

[jdb1234]

I have been working from home where there is no payroll (occupational tax). The town where my office is located levies a 2% tax. So in the 14-and-counting months since I've been working from home, I've had a de facto 2 percent raise, which is more of a raise than I have had since 2007. I won't enjoy having less take-home pay when I have to start paying the payroll tax.

I had no idea there were places where cities could charge payroll tax. As far as I know, that's not legal in Oklahoma.

I want to say that I think Memphis, TN was musing about setting up a payroll tax once upon a time.  I think the legislature put a stop to that one.

Birmingham and several other suburbs have an occupation tax.  When I was a work study at UAB, I had to give the city of Birmingham money and I received absolutely no benefit from it.

Jefferson County also had an occupation tax.  It was later ruled unconstitutional.

[JayhawkCO]

For the better part of 10 years, I was a restaurant General Manager.  I got furloughed twice in 2020 and the second time around, I decided to switch gears and landed a gig at a medical software company.  So I went from having a job that was impossible to do from home to one where I am permanently remote.  My team is going back to the office in hybrid mode here in a couple of months, so I'll be the only one on the team that isn't ever in the office.

Chris

[MikeTheActuary]

The trick to working from home is to be able to have a regular schedule, a dedicated space or "something" where you and others in your environment know that you're "at work".

A lot of people say this but I find the opposite to be true. From my perspective the trick is: don't try to make working from home resemble working in an office. Embrace that it is a radically different way of doing things, that you can have tons of flexibility in where and when you actually work, and enjoy the freedom this provides.

As such, I don't quite adhere to a set schedule other than that I usually only work Monday through Friday and I vaguely try to be around during the majority of "normal business hours". But I will absolutely go out to run errands in the middle of the day to take advantage of stores being less crowded during times when poor saps with fixed schedules aren't able to be there. I will also absolutely sometimes be online and emailing people at 4 AM if I find myself having trouble sleeping (don't worry, I don't expect an immediate response to those ).
And while I do the majority of my work from the dining room table, I will sometimes move to another location in the house for an hour or two. I can also work from locations other than my own home so long as wifi is available, though I don't do this unless I have a specific reason to (e.g. some work is getting done on my car and it'll take a couple hours, so in the meantime...)


At any rate, I am also in the group of people who was working from home before it was cool (since 2014!). I am willing to go to an office for an in-person meeting occasionally, whether it is local, on the other side of the country, or anywhere in between. But I am not interested in showing up to one purely for the sake of compliance to some arbitrary routine.

I wouldn't necessarily say that my "trick" is "making home resemble an office".

At my home, we're more-or-less set up with "his space", "her space" and "our space".  I work mostly in one room of the house, which also happens to have my personal computer and ham radio gear.  When at home, I "commute" by heading downstairs for meals, and I avoid spending "family time" in my work space.   My wife knows to leave me alone during business hours when I am in my work space.  She'll send text messages, etc. to communicate, and I will pop downstairs at convenient stopping points if she needs something of me (she's disabled)...but I don't get the "hey, come over here and look at this" or "what are we doing this weekend" kinds of conversations.

However, I do take advantage of some of the flexibility of working from home, in the sense that I frequently work what I call "bifurcated days":  I work for a few hours in the morning (meetings with my team members, fielding requests from the folks I support), do non-work stuff for a few hours, and then work a few more hours in the evening (my project work).  My wife and I both have too many doctors appointments...so this arrangement works for us.  I'll be traveling for the next couple of weeks, and even then the pattern will remain:  I'll log in for an hour or two most mornings before getting on the

Where I have invested to make things "resemble the office" are in getting a good office chair and a good VOIP phone.  The former is just a matter of comfort, while the latter is part of trying to make my WFH status a non-issue.  (Pre-pandemic, I was the only WFH employee in my department.  Given the biases against WFH in this part of my company, it seemed wise to not advertise my arrangements.)  And also I had to get a locking file cabinet and an approved shredder, per corporate policy...even though I'm paperless as far as work goes.

I do miss being in an office, and I look forward to when it becomes possible to start going back in (despite the 5-hour international commute).  But I don't miss office life enough to go back to having a long daily battle with traffic, or to give up the flexibility of juggling my work hours for work-life balance.

[hbelkins]

One thing working from home has done in my household is give my wife an appreciation of what I deal with. Last Wednesday, right at quitting time, I got hit with two things that needed to go out immediately. I told her, "now you see what's happening when I text you and tell you I'm going to be late leaving the office."

[SSOWorld]

One thing working from home has done in my household is give my wife an appreciation of what I deal with. Last Wednesday, right at quitting time, I got hit with two things that needed to go out immediately. I told her, "now you see what's happening when I text you and tell you I'm going to be late leaving the office."

But you need to quit now and start the grill, or dinner will be late!

[hbelkins]

We have our directions on going back. We're going back in three waves, and most of us got to choose when we wanted to go back. The first wave went back today, the second wave (the one I chose) goes back June 28, and the third wave goes back July 12.

Most of us have been given the option to permanently telecommute (work duties permitting) two days a week. I have applied for it and plan to work from home Wednesday and Thursday. There may be days when I have to go in four or all five days, but otherwise I'm optimistic I can continue to telecommute two days a week.

[JoePCool14]

I made a couple remarks in the thread on the other board, but here's an extended version of my thoughts.

I'm a 20 year-old university student, entering my fourth year of college this fall (second at university, following two years in community college). I am wholeheartedly looking forward to normal classes this fall. Online schooling for college students can work on paper, and it can work well for some students who only care to get their degrees and move on with life. But as for me, I just can't do them. I do not have the self-discipline to stay on top of them, whether that be going to Zoom classes, or Zoom office hours, or turning in homework all online. It didn't matter when I was finishing up community college, living at home with my parents, or living in a dorm room the past year. I struggled with both situations, and I acknowledge that some of that is my own fault. Not being forced to get up and out to bike across campus to an actual classroom really kills motivation. Also, just being on Zoom isn't as pleasant as live class for learning or for socializing. You basically don't meet fellow students on Zoom, aside from potential group projects.

Ah yes, socializing: one of the signatures of attending university. I should highlight that I never wanted to go to parties, or get wasted, or things of that nature. Virus or not, I find that all stupid. I just wanted to be able to befriend people in my classes or sign up for something like marching band and enjoy an activity with others. Maybe try and find a girlfriend. The usual stuff. When everything is all shut down, and everyone's forced to wear a mask, and you're forced to get tested every week, risking a ten day quarantine each time, even if you feel great... life is kinda shit. It was a bit depressing and frustrating, especially when there seemed no end in sight. If you have a decent friend network already, then you probably did fine. But I can't say that, since nearly all my friends and I parted ways last year, and I had to make new friends at school with all this garbage. And I still feel like I've had it better than most people!

I'm sorry for getting off topic, but since I'm a university student, it ties in with returning to normal classes. Yes, I'm happy to return to normalcy because even if it's mundane, even if sometimes it seems boring, it beats the alternative of what we've been forced to deal with for over an entire year.

I get it, some people like Rothman prefer to work from home. And that's fine. I understand this is a cliché statement, but one of the concepts of America is about getting to choose your own destiny. Whether you see yourself cruising along at home, or cruising down the highway on your morning commute should be your decision.

What has irritated me above all else this whole time was that the government representatives forced us all into this "new reality" while lying and constantly changing the rules at the drop of a hat, all while they made trips around the country or had maskless dinners and still had the gall to defend their own COVID hypocrisy with crocodile tears, begging for forgiveness.

Now that mask restrictions have ended where I live, and I've been able to smile to customers at the store I'm back working at for the summer when I check them out and see them smile back, things feel much better and pleasant. And I'm looking forward to seeing more of this in my last year in school. 

[Max Rockatansky]

My wife was fully back in the office starting a week ago.  Apparently remote work wasn't on the table given they resumed in-person visits with the behavioral health department.

[Scott5114]

I do not have the self-discipline to stay on top of them, whether that be going to Zoom classes, or Zoom office hours, or turning in homework all online. [...] Also, just being on Zoom isn't as pleasant as live class for learning or for socializing. You basically don't meet fellow students on Zoom, aside from potential group projects.

I kind of feel like part of the problem here was Zoom, which I've never used but have never heard much positive about. I haven't the foggiest idea why everyone decided to standardize on that, as it sounds vaguely nauseating. My social circle migrated to Discord during the pandemic and I have no complaints. We actually found that we preferred hanging out on Discord better than in-person because I live about a half-hour to 45 minutes east of all my friends (I live in the city, they all live in the country) so it's just easier for everyone to stay at home and sign on to a voice chat than it is to come out, wait for everyone to arrive, set up, decide where we're ordering food from, hang out, then drive back home. And during the week when we're not on voice we can send messages to the group text chat to stay in touch.

I think another part of the problem with WFH is everyone trying to make video calls to be a thing. Video calls are a solution in search of a problem. We get it, it looked cool on Star Trek TNG when Captain Picard was placing sternly-worded calls to the Romulans, but Patrick Stewart had a makeup department and an immaculately designed and maintained set he got to sit in front of. Everyone looks terrible on a webcam and that stresses people out. I find that a voice call with no camera is a lot less stressful for everyone involved. Plus, if you're not broadcasting video, you can use that bandwidth to screen-share instead if you have something that would be relevant to share that way. If you haven't heard from someone in a while on a voice call, instead of looking at the camera to see if they're zoning out, the meeting leader should just pipe up and say "Liz, haven't heard from you in a while, what are your thoughts on this?" But they should be doing that in in-person and video call meetings too.

What has irritated me above all else this whole time was that the government representatives forced us all into this "new reality" while lying and constantly changing the rules at the drop of a hat, all while they made trips around the country or had maskless dinners and still had the gall to defend their own COVID hypocrisy with crocodile tears, begging for forgiveness.

I'm not sure how to tell you that COVID-19 was a new thing and nobody knew how to keep people safe without everyone rebelling. How to manage the need to keep PPE available for healthcare workers while managing the free market. Sure, politicians not following the rules didn't help make people want to cooperate, but there are plenty of politicians that did follow their own rules and still got shit on for it. And then you have politicians like my governor who went to Walmart while COVID-positive and breathed on everyone, but technically wasn't being a hypocrite because he never signed a statewide mask mandate into law.

I have a much easier time sympathizing with a government official who is trying to keep people safe and maybe going a bit overboard than I do a private citizen who is putting others at risk out of some perceived threat to their...something or other.

Now that mask restrictions have ended where I live, and I've been able to smile to customers at the store I'm back working at for the summer when I check them out and see them smile back, things feel much better and pleasant. And I'm looking forward to seeing more of this in my last year in school. 

The one nice thing about wearing a mask at work was that I didn't have people subjecting me to unnecessary conversations about my facial expressions. "Hey buddy, how about a smile?" Hey buddy, how about you let me concentrate on counting your chips instead of on contorting my face into an unnatural shape so I don't short you $25? (Cause whenever I made mistakes, for some reason it always ended up in the house's favor. Nice for me since I didn't have to pay anything back in that case.)

What's the point in people insisting that service workers smile, anyway? Is it because if they don't they might realize the place they're doing business in is a miserable dump, and they might have to sit down and take a long, hard, inconvenient look at the consequences of spending money in a place? Can't have that.

[Roadgeekteen]

I do not have the self-discipline to stay on top of them, whether that be going to Zoom classes, or Zoom office hours, or turning in homework all online. [...] Also, just being on Zoom isn't as pleasant as live class for learning or for socializing. You basically don't meet fellow students on Zoom, aside from potential group projects.

I kind of feel like part of the problem here was Zoom, which I've never used but have never heard much positive about. I haven't the foggiest idea why everyone decided to standardize on that, as it sounds vaguely nauseating. My social circle migrated to Discord during the pandemic and I have no complaints. We actually found that we preferred hanging out on Discord better than in-person because I live about a half-hour to 45 minutes east of all my friends (I live in the city, they all live in the country) so it's just easier for everyone to stay at home and sign on to a voice chat than it is to come out, wait for everyone to arrive, set up, decide where we're ordering food from, hang out, then drive back home. And during the week when we're not on voice we can send messages to the group text chat to stay in touch.

I think another part of the problem with WFH is everyone trying to make video calls to be a thing. Video calls are a solution in search of a problem. We get it, it looked cool on Star Trek TNG when Captain Picard was placing sternly-worded calls to the Romulans, but Patrick Stewart had a makeup department and an immaculately designed and maintained set he got to sit in front of. Everyone looks terrible on a webcam and that stresses people out. I find that a voice call with no camera is a lot less stressful for everyone involved. Plus, if you're not broadcasting video, you can use that bandwidth to screen-share instead if you have something that would be relevant to share that way. If you haven't heard from someone in a while on a voice call, instead of looking at the camera to see if they're zoning out, the meeting leader should just pipe up and say "Liz, haven't heard from you in a while, what are your thoughts on this?" But they should be doing that in in-person and video call meetings too.

What has irritated me above all else this whole time was that the government representatives forced us all into this "new reality" while lying and constantly changing the rules at the drop of a hat, all while they made trips around the country or had maskless dinners and still had the gall to defend their own COVID hypocrisy with crocodile tears, begging for forgiveness.

I'm not sure how to tell you that COVID-19 was a new thing and nobody knew how to keep people safe without everyone rebelling. How to manage the need to keep PPE available for healthcare workers while managing the free market. Sure, politicians not following the rules didn't help make people want to cooperate, but there are plenty of politicians that did follow their own rules and still got shit on for it. And then you have politicians like my governor who went to Walmart while COVID-positive and breathed on everyone, but technically wasn't being a hypocrite because he never signed a statewide mask mandate into law.

I have a much easier time sympathizing with a government official who is trying to keep people safe and maybe going a bit overboard than I do a private citizen who is putting others at risk out of some perceived threat to their...something or other.

Now that mask restrictions have ended where I live, and I've been able to smile to customers at the store I'm back working at for the summer when I check them out and see them smile back, things feel much better and pleasant. And I'm looking forward to seeing more of this in my last year in school. 

The one nice thing about wearing a mask at work was that I didn't have people subjecting me to unnecessary conversations about my facial expressions. "Hey buddy, how about a smile?" Hey buddy, how about you let me concentrate on counting your chips instead of on contorting my face into an unnatural shape so I don't short you $25? (Cause whenever I made mistakes, for some reason it always ended up in the house's favor. Nice for me since I didn't have to pay anything back in that case.)

What's the point in people insisting that service workers smile, anyway? Is it because if they don't they might realize the place they're doing business in is a miserable dump, and they might have to sit down and take a long, hard, inconvenient look at the consequences of spending money in a place? Can't have that.

I also prefer voice chats to video chats.

[US 89]

The only thing I'll miss about masks is the ability to yawn during a meeting without coming across as rude.

[ZLoth]

The latest word is that the earliest we can start working at the office again is September. Maybe.

[webny99]

I do not have the self-discipline to stay on top of them, whether that be going to Zoom classes, or Zoom office hours, or turning in homework all online. [...] Also, just being on Zoom isn't as pleasant as live class for learning or for socializing. You basically don't meet fellow students on Zoom, aside from potential group projects.

I kind of feel like part of the problem here was Zoom, which I've never used but have never heard much positive about. I haven't the foggiest idea why everyone decided to standardize on that, as it sounds vaguely nauseating.

I have used Zoom quite a bit for a variety of functions/events/purposes. It works surprisingly well for any sort of lesson or meeting where one person is doing most of the talking, or at the very least when there is some sort of understood/pre-established order and people mute when they're not speaking.

It does not work well for normal socializing, especially when there are more than two participants, and especially when people who are together physically talk amongst themselves while unmuted. Then you are correct, it is vaguely nauseating, and has indeed left me with a headache on more than one occasion.

[NWI_Irish96]

I was already working nearly 100% from home when COVID hit. My division had a reorganization in 2018, and I got transferred to an office 250 miles away. I got to work from home in lieu of moving in exchange for giving up the $60k+ I would have gotten in relocation expenses.

My required travel to my office declined due to COVID. I went from about six trips per year down to two.

[hbelkins]

I also prefer voice chats to video chats.

I prefer emails/texts/written messages over any type of voice or video chats. Don't call me when an email or text will suffice. I try to avoid talking on the phone whenever possible.

Regarding Zoom and other video apps, I've had to use several of them over the past 15 months. I've done conferences/meetings via MS Teams, Zoom, and BlueJeans. I've done media interviews via Zoom and FaceTime. We've been told to expect continued widespread use of remote meetings (probably because it's cheaper than paying for gas or expenses to travel to Frankfort). That, for the most part, suits me fine, because I'd rather log in to a remote video meeting at 9 a.m. than get up early and drive two hours to the mothership for a meeting.

Unless I have a need to be on camera (a television interview that's being recorded) I typically keep my camera off during those. I also keep my microphone off unless I need to speak.

It seems some of you younger folks have a greater need for socialization/personal interaction than I do. As I've gotten older, I've become more and more content with my own company.