Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions

[SEWIGuy]

I think it pretty much means that this major street is a school zone when you see kids around. Honestly I have never seen such signs as problematic.

But its doubtful that police are enforcing it then anyway.

Imagine that the speed limit is 40 mph, with "SCHOOL / 20 MPH / WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT".
There's a birthday party at the school playground, maybe school-sponsored, maybe not, you don't know.
Or there's a spelling bee, with kids and teachers and parents leaving the school at 7:45 pm.
Or track practice is over, and runners are leaving the locker room at 5:30 pm.
Or there's a citywide student event at the school on a Saturday morning.

Which of those cases count as "children are present" and which ones don't?  Because, if a police officer clocks you going 49 mph, are you getting a 9mph speeding ticket that won't get reported to your insurance, or are you getting a 29mph speeding ticket that has you showing up at a courthouse?

First, is this really a problem?

Second, you examples show why flexibilities in the wording are important.  School functions don't just happen Monday through Friday, 7:30 to 5:00.

[kphoger]

is this really a problem?

Very close to my parents' house is a very similar situation, except that the sign is "WHEN FLASHING" rather than "WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT".  Often, the lights still flash even on days when school was canceled.  On those days or after school hours, however, it's common to see children crossing the road to go between the school playground and a nearby park.  Sometimes they don't even use the crosswalk.  Heck, I've crossed there with my own children a time or two outside of school hours.

I have to imagine there are places where a similar situation exists but the signs say "WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT" instead.

[GaryV]

There was a sign in my area for a school zone that remained up for some time after the school was closed, and even torn down.  Fortunately it said "school days" so those of us in the know knew it was never a school day anymore.

[hotdogPi]

There's an intersection in what I think is Quincy, MA (might be Braintree) where there's no turn on red from A AM to B AM and C PM to D PM, corresponding to school hours, except the PM time is earlier on Tuesdays. This corresponds to half days for elementary school, which from what I understand, has changed in COVID times. (A few towns make one day of the week a half day every week in exchange for making the other four days slightly longer.)

[SEWIGuy]

is this really a problem?

Very close to my parents' house is a very similar situation, except that the sign is "WHEN FLASHING" rather than "WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT".  Often, the lights still flash even on days when school was canceled.  On those days or after school hours, however, it's common to see children crossing the road to go between the school playground and a nearby park.  Sometimes they don't even use the crosswalk.  Heck, I've crossed there with my own children a time or two outside of school hours.

I have to imagine there are places where a similar situation exists but the signs say "WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT" instead.

I mean, these seem like occasional inconveniences and not really problems.  And that's really my point.

[kphoger]

is this really a problem?

Very close to my parents' house is a very similar situation, except that the sign is "WHEN FLASHING" rather than "WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT".  Often, the lights still flash even on days when school was canceled.  On those days or after school hours, however, it's common to see children crossing the road to go between the school playground and a nearby park.  Sometimes they don't even use the crosswalk.  Heck, I've crossed there with my own children a time or two outside of school hours.

I have to imagine there are places where a similar situation exists but the signs say "WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT" instead.

I mean, these seem like occasional inconveniences and not really problems.  And that's really my point.

What are occasional inconveniences?  The unexpected speeding tickets (Bel Aire loves speeding tickets)?  Slowing down for no good reason just to avoid the theoretical possibility of speeding?

The original opinion was that they're "dumb".  And I still agree.  A speed limit should be cut and dry:  go this speed or slower.  Not:  well, except in these certain vague circumstances which you may or may not be able to determine.

[CtrlAltDel]

Bel Aire

Not to veer the discussion completely off topic, but it seems that whoever came up with this name did not know French as well as they may have hoped. (It should be either Bel Air or Belle Aire.)

[kphoger]

–  Women do know how to drive.             They just don't know how to park.

[HighwayStar]

is this really a problem?

Very close to my parents' house is a very similar situation, except that the sign is "WHEN FLASHING" rather than "WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT".  Often, the lights still flash even on days when school was canceled.  On those days or after school hours, however, it's common to see children crossing the road to go between the school playground and a nearby park.  Sometimes they don't even use the crosswalk.  Heck, I've crossed there with my own children a time or two outside of school hours.

I have to imagine there are places where a similar situation exists but the signs say "WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT" instead.

I mean, these seem like occasional inconveniences and not really problems.  And that's really my point.

What are occasional inconveniences?  The unexpected speeding tickets (Bel Aire loves speeding tickets)?  Slowing down for no good reason just to avoid the theoretical possibility of speeding?

The original opinion was that they're "dumb".  And I still agree.  A speed limit should be cut and dry:  go this speed or slower.  Not:  well, except in these certain vague circumstances which you may or may not be able to determine.

The best speed limit is no speed limit

[interstatefan990]

The best speed limit is no speed limit

Said every German ever.

[HighwayStar]

The best speed limit is no speed limit

Said every German ever.

Well I am not German by any means, but they DID have the first "production" automobile.

[formulanone]

Freeway Entrance signs are wasteful; I can think of only 1 or 2 occasions where it wasn't obvious where an on-ramp began. Between the shields, directional placards, arrows, medium-sized guide signs, lane markings, and the fact that there's typically a handful of basic interchange styles, it's usually just added clutter.

[ran4sh]

Interstate and NHS routes that ban thru trucks should be removed from Interstate and NHS funding. They should be posted as "green" Interstate (Business), US, or State routes only. Examples - I-35E in St Paul, I-20 I-75 I-85 inside I-285 in Atlanta, I-580 in the Oakland area, etc.

[ran4sh]

is this really a problem?

Very close to my parents' house is a very similar situation, except that the sign is "WHEN FLASHING" rather than "WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT".  Often, the lights still flash even on days when school was canceled.  On those days or after school hours, however, it's common to see children crossing the road to go between the school playground and a nearby park.  Sometimes they don't even use the crosswalk.  Heck, I've crossed there with my own children a time or two outside of school hours.

I have to imagine there are places where a similar situation exists but the signs say "WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT" instead.

I mean, these seem like occasional inconveniences and not really problems.  And that's really my point.

Then you might be white or whatever demographic doesn't have to worry about police abuse.

[Ned Weasel]

Here's one:  Specific service logo signs (blue signs with logos) are really only useful if they are reinforced by tall, noticeable business signs visible from the interchange/junction in question.  And on that note, tall business signs are good, actually, and they can even make a landscape more interesting.  The problem with specific service signs where they're not so useful is, when you can't see the business from the interchange/junction, the blue signs aren't necessarily reliable for helping you find the business you're looking for.  Sure, there's a sign on the ramp that tells you to turn left and go 0.2 miles to get to the Starbucks, but then what?  If the MUTCD added a section for business wayfinding signs, then maybe I'd change my mind.

[hbelkins]

Here's one:  Specific service logo signs (blue signs with logos) are really only useful if they are reinforced by tall, noticeable business signs visible from the interchange/junction in question.  And on that note, tall business signs are good, actually, and they can even make a landscape more interesting.  The problem with specific service signs where they're not so useful is, when you can't see the business from the interchange/junction, the blue signs aren't necessarily reliable for helping you find the business you're looking for.  Sure, there's a sign on the ramp that tells you to turn left and go 0.2 miles to get to the Starbucks, but then what?  If the MUTCD added a section for business wayfinding signs, then maybe I'd change my mind.

Case in point: There's blue service signage for the Kroger gas station on the Mountain Parkway Exit 22 at Stanton. The signage dutifully directs you to turn left or right, depending on your direction of travel, onto KY 213 northbound. However, unless you're familiar with the area or using some sort of online navigation system, you don't know that to get to Kroger, you have to turn left from KY 213 (Main Street) onto KY 11/KY 15 (College Avenue) and then go about a half-mile to get to Kroger.

[Dirt Roads]

Here's one:  Specific service logo signs (blue signs with logos) are really only useful if they are reinforced by tall, noticeable business signs visible from the interchange/junction in question.  And on that note, tall business signs are good, actually, and they can even make a landscape more interesting.  The problem with specific service signs where they're not so useful is, when you can't see the business from the interchange/junction, the blue signs aren't necessarily reliable for helping you find the business you're looking for.  Sure, there's a sign on the ramp that tells you to turn left and go 0.2 miles to get to the Starbucks, but then what?  If the MUTCD added a section for business wayfinding signs, then maybe I'd change my mind.

Case in point: There's blue service signage for the Kroger gas station on the Mountain Parkway Exit 22 at Stanton. The signage dutifully directs you to turn left or right, depending on your direction of travel, onto KY 213 northbound. However, unless you're familiar with the area or using some sort of online navigation system, you don't know that to get to Kroger, you have to turn left from KY 213 (Main Street) onto KY 11/KY 15 (College Avenue) and then go about a half-mile to get to Kroger.

Fortunately, for hideaways posted on the blue service signs, NCDOT consistently posts wayfinder signs from the exit all the way to nearest side road leading to the establishment.  I've seen them in other states, but not very consistently.  I don't know if NCDOT provides these additional wayfinder signs this at no additional cost, but I'm pretty sure that some state DOTs require the establishments to pay for them (which would explain why we still get lost finding stuff).

[interstatefan990]

Interstate and NHS routes that ban thru trucks should be removed from Interstate and NHS funding. They should be posted as "green" Interstate (Business), US, or State routes only. Examples - I-35E in St Paul, I-20 I-75 I-85 inside I-285 in Atlanta, I-580 in the Oakland area, etc.

What about instead requiring the construction of a separate bypass route carrying Alternate Truck designation, like Pennsylvania does with some of their highways?

[kernals12]

People more often than not support highway improvements, it's lack of funds that prevents improvements.

And I didn't this one was unpopular until recently on this site: noise pollution is bad and eliminating it is good

[kphoger]

And I didn't this one was unpopular until recently on this site: noise pollution is bad and eliminating it is good

I think most people would agree that reducing traffic noise would be good but that eliminating it would create problems.

[Scott5114]

And I didn't this one was unpopular until recently on this site: noise pollution is bad and eliminating it is good

I think most people would agree that reducing traffic noise would be good but that eliminating it would create problems.

Wasn't there an issue for a while with electric cars getting in accidents with pedestrians because they were so quiet the pedestrians didn't notice there was a car coming?

[1995hoo]

And I didn't this one was unpopular until recently on this site: noise pollution is bad and eliminating it is good

I think most people would agree that reducing traffic noise would be good but that eliminating it would create problems.

Wasn't there an issue for a while with electric cars getting in accidents with pedestrians because they were so quiet the pedestrians didn't notice there was a car coming?

I mentioned that in another thread in which kernals12 had argued, among other things, that tires should be engineered to be quiet. In response, I made the comment below, although I probably should have considered that any viewpoints that could be seen as disagreeing with his would not be welcome there:

A non-trivial consideration–and I don't pretend to know what the ideal solution for this is–involves the issue that some level of vehicle noise may be desirable on roads that have pedestrian crossings or nearby sidewalks. Blind and visually-impaired people have raised the concern that electric vehicles, as well as hybrids running in purely electric mode, can often be too quiet for people who rely on hearing to know they're coming. Obviously the idea of having those vehicles emit a beeping sound, similar to a reversing truck, is not a good solution for a variety of reasons (not the least of them being the undesirability of using a sound that might be confused with one that has a well-established meaning), but as those sorts of vehicles become more common, figuring out a solution to that issue will be important.

Funny thing was, though, it was kalvado, rather than kernals12, who replied by trying to argue that engine noise is sufficient (a point that totally ignores the issue of electric cars or hybrids running at low speeds solely on the electric motor).

I don't pretend to know what the solution to that issue is, but it is a real issue. To some degree, it reminds me of the motorcycle-related slogan "Loud pipes save lives" (later borrowed by Vermont-based Celtic rock band Prydien as an album title). Some motorcyclists overdo the "loud pipes" thing, but as a general principle I'm sure it has some validity in terms of drawing attention to them.

[LilianaUwU]

I'm not too sure if that opinion is unpopular anymore... but when done well, Clearview is a good subsitute to the original FHWA font. Just look at Québec, which had a succesful transition from FHWA to Clearview.

[interstatefan990]

I'm not too sure if that opinion is unpopular anymore... but when done well, Clearview is a good subsitute to the original FHWA font. Just look at Québec, which had a succesful transition from FHWA to Clearview.

This is an unpopular opinion of mine, in that it's an unpopular reason given for why we should not switch to Clearview: FHWA Series has historical and cultural significance. It's been used for decades on American roads, and many countries around the world have put it into use in one form or another. It's very recognizable, classic, and some might even say it's the font of the USA. I know DOTs are more concerned with functionality than historical significance, but I do feel like Highway Gothic is more symbolic of America than it gets credit for.

[Flint1979]

I drive a Ford Fusion Hybrid and it's pretty quiet. When I was in Chicago over the weekend I damn near wiped out two pedestrians who were in the wrong. Situation was I was at the corner of Canal and Roosevelt waiting for the light to change, the green arrow turns on and I start to make my turn, in the middle of my turn I noticed these two people walking in the cross walk and had to brake and they jumped back out of the way. Like really? I had the right of way with the green arrow being activated, you tried to cross on a red light. And the traffic lights in Chicago are enough to drive you nuts as it is.