Status of Clearview?

[bugo]

Is it no longer approved for new installations?

[Zeffy]

The FHWA will be rescinding it's interim approval, as seen by this request by Grays Harbor County, Washington.

However, it's not clear if DOTs can continue to use these fonts for newer installations if they have them or are heavy users of Clearview (such as Texas, PennDOT, etc).

[SteveG1988]

So basically, it is now an undead font?

[corco]

The FHWA will be rescinding it's interim approval, as seen by this request by Grays Harbor County, Washington.

However, it's not clear if DOTs can continue to use these fonts for newer installations if they have them or are heavy users of Clearview (such as Texas, PennDOT, etc).

It's pretty clear they can continue to use those fonts until their interim approval is rescinded. The approval goes to the agency, not to specific signing projects, so Arizona DOT as an agency has interim approval to use the Clearview font. Until that interim approval is rescinded, Arizona DOT can continue to post signs in Clearview.

Now, if, say, the Idaho Transportation Department came to FHWA wanting to post in Clearview, they'd probably be denied because they don't have interim approval and no new interim approvals are being granted.

[jakeroot]

In the letter, he doesn't say that they WILL rescinding approval, but rather, that they expect to. Call me stubborn, but I'm not biting on the "death of Clearview" until the FHWA releases a formal press letter with a definitive course of action.

[Pink Jazz]

If the interim approval is rescinded, I wonder if the creators of Clearview or the states that use it will file a lawsuit against the FHWA.  Rescinding the interim approval would probably be a financial disaster for the state transportation authorities that use it, as they would have to spend lots of money on sign fabrication machines that use FHWA Series E Modified that the state agencies have probably scrapped after switching to Clearview. 

I wonder if the FHWA will allow Series D or plain Series E as an alternative.  After all, Series E modified was designed for button copy which nobody uses anymore.  Using Series D or plain Series E would reduce the haloing caused by Series E modified due to their thinner strokes.

I hate to get political, but I wonder if the planned rescinding of the interim approval of Clearview has anything to do with Obama's hatred of anything of the Bush administration.  After all, the interim approval was granted when George W. Bush was President.

[lordsutch]

These days, virtually all sign fabrication uses digital fonts; however, there would still be substantial costs to DOTs in moving back to the FHWA series fonts in terms of reworking standard sign templates.

And, frankly, given that FHWA allowed Georgia to get away with using its bogus unapproved Series D variant font for decades (and is still letting Georgia get away with non-standard type sizing on its new Series E/E(M) signs) I doubt FWHA will expend a lot of effort to stop departments that already have approval and want to continue using Clearview from doing so.

[swbrotha100]

How many state DOTs are using Clearview now?

[Pink Jazz]

How many state DOTs are using Clearview now?

Wikipedia says between 20 and 30 states, not an exact number.  I know that some states (such as New Mexico) are using it experimentally in specific districts rather than statewide.

[corco]

If the interim approval is rescinded, I wonder if the creators of Clearview or the states that use it will file a lawsuit against the FHWA.  Rescinding the interim approval would probably be a financial disaster for the state transportation authorities that use it, as they would have to spend lots of money on sign fabrication machines that use FHWA Series E Modified that the state agencies have probably scrapped after switching to Clearview. 

I highly doubt it, "interim approval" strongly implies that it could be pulled at any time, and without having seen the legalese in the interim approval language, I'd be pretty surprised if such a suit had any merit.

[sammi]

How many state DOTs are using Clearview now?

This is roughly where Clearview stands, as far as I can tell:



where green states and provinces are using FHWA series, and yellow ones are using Clearview. (I don't seem to have any data on the territories.) There may be are some mistakes in the map, so please let me know so I can fix them immediately.

[corco]

I have never seen a Clearview sign on an Idaho Transportation Department maintained road

[Pink Jazz]

How many state DOTs are using Clearview now?

This is roughly where Clearview stands, as far as I can tell:

where green states and provinces are using FHWA series, and yellow ones are using Clearview. (I don't seem to have any data on the territories.) There may be are some mistakes in the map, so please let me know so I can fix them immediately.

District 5 in New Mexico is using Clearview experimentally.  Also, in Florida, the toll roads maintained by the Central Florida Expressway Authority (formerly the Orlando-Orange County Expressway Authority) in the Orlando area uses Clearview.

Puerto Rico does NOT use Clearview.  Not sure about the other territories.

[corco]

District 5 in New Mexico is using Clearview experimentally.

Are you certain it's a district-wide thing? Looking at street blades, it looks to me like the city of Rio Rancho is doing it as opposed to NMDOT (the street blades on NM-528 in Rio Rancho are consistent with other local installs), but that's not necessarily the district experimenting with it.

Rio Rancho, like NMDOT, doesn't have interim approval for Clearview (http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interim_approval/ialistreq.htm) but Rio Rancho has independently asked for interim approval for other things, so them doing so for Clearview would hardly be a stretch.

[jakeroot]

where green states and provinces are using FHWA series, and yellow ones are using Clearview.

That's an excellent map, Sammi. Did you make it? Also, what are the green/yellow dashes? I want to think that it means half and half, but doesn't PA use Clearview extensively?

To add to the list of states, like Florida, Utah uses Clearview on a limited basis (only one freeway near SLC). California has used Clearview but only on an EXTREMELY limited basis (like only or two signs). I have seen Clearview on the freeway in Washington State, but like California, on only one sign near Tacoma.

[Pink Jazz]

District 5 in New Mexico is using Clearview experimentally.

Are you certain it's a district-wide thing? Looking at street blades, it looks to me like the city of Rio Rancho is doing it as opposed to NMDOT (the street blades on NM-528 in Rio Rancho are consistent with other local installs), but that's not necessarily the district experimenting with it.

In fact, on the list of interim approved places (http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interim_approval/ialistreq.htm), it lists the city of Rio Rancho but not NMDOT.

Interesting, considering Rio Rancho is in District 3.  However, there have been reports of Clearview signs along several District 5 signs along I-25, including the NM 599, US 84/285, and NM 502 exits.

[sammi]

That's an excellent map, Sammi. Did you make it?

I did. I've actually had it for a few months before this.

Also, what are the green/yellow dashes? I want to think that it means half and half,

Roughly half-and-half, yeah, or maybe in the process of switching. I don't even know.

but doesn't PA use Clearview extensively?

It does, and it's marked yellow on the map. Unless you were referring to New York?

[jakeroot]

but doesn't PA use Clearview extensively?

It does, and it's marked yellow on the map. Unless you were referring to New York?

[corco]

District 5 in New Mexico is using Clearview experimentally.

Are you certain it's a district-wide thing? Looking at street blades, it looks to me like the city of Rio Rancho is doing it as opposed to NMDOT (the street blades on NM-528 in Rio Rancho are consistent with other local installs), but that's not necessarily the district experimenting with it.

In fact, on the list of interim approved places (http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interim_approval/ialistreq.htm), it lists the city of Rio Rancho but not NMDOT.

Interesting, considering Rio Rancho is in District 3.  However, there have been reports of Clearview signs along several District 5 signs along I-25, including the NM 599, US 84/285, and NM 502 exits.

Oh, okay. Nice, do you know when those signs came up or which signs they are specifically? Street view around Santa Fe is from April to June 2014, so unless they were just installed they should be there.

[Pink Jazz]

District 5 in New Mexico is using Clearview experimentally.

Are you certain it's a district-wide thing? Looking at street blades, it looks to me like the city of Rio Rancho is doing it as opposed to NMDOT (the street blades on NM-528 in Rio Rancho are consistent with other local installs), but that's not necessarily the district experimenting with it.

In fact, on the list of interim approved places (http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interim_approval/ialistreq.htm), it lists the city of Rio Rancho but not NMDOT.

Interesting, considering Rio Rancho is in District 3.  However, there have been reports of Clearview signs along several District 5 signs along I-25, including the NM 599, US 84/285, and NM 502 exits.

Oh, okay. Nice, do you know when those signs came up or which signs they are specifically? Street view around Santa Fe is from April to June 2014, so unless they were just installed they should be there.

Apparently, they were installed last April:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-mexico/1078978-possible-first-clearview-font-road-signs-2.html

BTW, perhaps I misread the post, and the signs are simply located on those highways instead of specifically at the interchanges of I-25 and those highways.

[Zeffy]

How many state DOTs are using Clearview now?

This is roughly where Clearview stands, as far as I can tell:



where green states and provinces are using FHWA series, and yellow ones are using Clearview. (I don't seem to have any data on the territories.) There may be are some mistakes in the map, so please let me know so I can fix them immediately.

New Jersey uses Clearview on the street sign blades/signs in Somerset and Union(?) Counties, but that's about it. There was also one rogue installation of a Clearview overhead guide sign on I-676 for Exit 4.

[Scott5114]

There would be close to zero expense to switch back to FHWA Series fonts. All states still use FHWA Series for non-guide sign contexts, such as regulatory and warning signs. Existing signs can remain until they wear out.  There is a thread in Mid-South where AHTD is on record as saying that switching back would be as simple as pushing a button.

The Clearview designers can certainly attempt a lawsuit but the government is like any other customer and is not obligated to buy anything just because they did in the past. Likewise, a state government would be ill advised to sue the feds over the issue because they were made well aware that Clearview was under testing and they were free not to participate.

[Zeffy]

Also, I believe the CFEA (Central Florida Expressway Authority) uses Clearview, but not FDOT or any other agency down in Florida.

EDIT: But you already knew this because Pink Jazz posted this and I didn't look first... sorry! 

[vdeane]

That's an excellent map, Sammi. Did you make it?

I did. I've actually had it for a few months before this.

Also, what are the green/yellow dashes? I want to think that it means half and half,

Roughly half-and-half, yeah, or maybe in the process of switching. I don't even know.

but doesn't PA use Clearview extensively?

It does, and it's marked yellow on the map. Unless you were referring to New York?

In the case of NY, it means "NYSTA uses it by NYSDOT doesn't".  I don't know about Ohio and Iowa.

[SD Mapman]

How many state DOTs are using Clearview now?

This is roughly where Clearview stands, as far as I can tell:



where green states and provinces are using FHWA series, and yellow ones are using Clearview. (I don't seem to have any data on the territories.) There may be are some mistakes in the map, so please let me know so I can fix them immediately.

In SD, we only use Clearview for street signs. SDDOT has NEVER used a Clearview sign, to my knowledge... but that hasn't stopped cities, like Spearfish and Rapid City, from using it on their own signs.