Rounded corner BGSes

[route17fan]

Just an observation: BGSes with rounded corners mostly have Z-bar backs or stiffeners and, depending on the size of the sign, about 3 or 4 Z-bars. States that come to mind are NY, NC, VA, FL, etc. as examples.

I know what I want to ask but not sure how to word the question. I'm just inquiring about what determines the backing of the sign - is it the rounded corners or the sharp corners? That's the jist of the question but still not quite what I really want to know.
BGSes with sharp corners (mostly) are made with extruded panels. They typically have many horizontal stiffeners. I am trying to really look at the sign overall and think if it is wind load or where it is placed (ground mount versus overhead) and all those determining factors all in to consideration - is it all just depending on state standards and how they do things or the manufacturer? Although I have seen sharp cornered BGSes with z-bars on the back too in VA and NY.

Those in Ontario, Canada, I welcome input as I seem to remember seeing rounded cornered signs and extruded panel backing and not z-bars. Further to that, a state like Ohio - which long ago had rounded corner BGSes in button copy - then went to sharp corners - I'm just trying to figure out if it is a standard to have the z-bar stiffeners solely on the backs of rounded corner BGSes. (especially if it was at one time state standard and then gets changed - what determines the change?)

I know I am talking in circles but I am also hopeful that a few can cut through the noise and see what I am attempting to ask and find out. I will be sure to clarify as the answer hopefully surfaces down the thread as I am sure there will be questions to clarify. Thank you all in advance.

Edited original post with correct terms.

[hbelkins]

Guide signs that are used in KY, OH, WV and most cases in PA are what are known as "extruded panel" signs.

There's a different term for the signs used in the states you mention, but I can't think of it off the top of my head.

[route17fan]

Yes HB - thank you. Extruded - not corrugated. My bad. 

With that, has anyone seen extruded panel backed rounded corner BGSes? I want to say Ontario Canada has them.

[roadman]

Guide signs that are used in KY, OH, WV and most cases in PA are what are known as "extruded panel" signs.

There's a different term for the signs used in the states you mention, but I can't think of it off the top of my head.

Rounded corner BGSes in NY. VA, and other states are known in the industry as "increment panel" signs - they are made from smaller sheet aluminum panels that are "stitched" together with Z bar or H bar members on the back.

[route17fan]

Okay - that makes sense. That was something I was always curious about. Thank you all very much. 

[vtk]

US 33 in southeast Ohio has some very new non-rectangular, round-corner signs at the boundary of Wayne National Forest. It's difficult to identify the type of sign construction employed, because the backs of the signs are mostly obscured by the signs facing the other way.  I somewhat doubt they are extruded panel signs, but they do appear to have primarily horizontal stiffeners.

[route17fan]

Awesome! Thanks for the tip - and come to think of it, the National Park Service does use the rounded corner signs as well. Thank you. 

[AsphaltPlanet]

Yes HB - thank you. Extruded - not corrugated. My bad. 

With that, has anyone seen extruded panel backed rounded corner BGSes? I want to say Ontario Canada has them.

Some of our really old extruded aluminum signs have rounded corners, but the MTO has used rectangular edges for a few decades now.  I have no idea how they were made, but I'd gather the old style of signs were machined down after the blank had been assembled.

[route17fan]

Gotcha - thank you. 

[route17fan]

Also my apologies to the mods for posting in the wrong board. Thank you for correcting. 

[Scott5114]

I am not sure if it is typical of extruded aluminum signs, but the few that I have gotten a chance to examine closely seem to consist of U- or E-shaped panels stacked atop one other, sort of like this:

E
E
E
E

[route17fan]

It's funny - I had that image in my head and for some reason had a nasty time trying to convey that in my question. 

[roadman]

I am not sure if it is typical of extruded aluminum signs, but the few that I have gotten a chance to examine closely seem to consist of U- or E-shaped panels stacked atop one other, sort of like this:

E
E
E
E

That is a very accurate description of how extruded aluminum sign panels are fabricated.

[route17fan]

Ohio had at one point increment panel signs - going back to at least 1975 IRRC and then went to extruded panel signs I would say at some point in the 80s - or were we a state that used both simultaneously? (Is that possible?)

Man how I wish I could take a trip back in time to recall correctly.

[vtk]

I am not sure if it is typical of extruded aluminum signs, but the few that I have gotten a chance to examine closely seem to consist of U- or E-shaped panels stacked atop one other, sort of like this:

E
E
E
E

I have observed several in downtown Columbus (from bridges directly behind the signs), plus a few ground-mounted signs, and they are just like that.

[NE2]

E
E
E
E

Also known as Psycho signs.

[hbelkins]

Virginia is starting to use extruded panel signs. I've seen several on VA 288.

[cpzilliacus]

Virginia is starting to use extruded panel signs. I've seen several on VA 288.

I-395 in Northern Virginia has a lot of extruded sign panels too. 

[vtk]

Am i the only one who writes BGS for both singular and plural?

[roadman]

Virginia is starting to use extruded panel signs. I've seen several on VA 288.

I suspect one of the reasons that Virginia is starting to transition to extruded panel signs is because of the hardware failures - mostly attachment lugs - they've been having with the older increment panel signs.

[thenetwork]

Ohio had at one point increment panel signs - going back to at least 1975 IRRC and then went to extruded panel signs I would say at some point in the 80s - or were we a state that used both simultaneously? (Is that possible?)

Man how I wish I could take a trip back in time to recall correctly.

Akron was a great example of using both extruded and increment panel signs at the same time going back to the early 60s.

The original North Leg of the expressway (SR-8) between E. Exchange and Tallmadge Ave used extruded BGSs when it was first built in the early 50s.  Many of those signs survived well into the 80's before being replaced.

The original East and West legs of the expressway (I-80S now I-76) from East Market Street to at least Main Street were mostly rounded-corner increment panel BGSs from the early 60s, when those sections were completed.  The last of those signs survived until the late 90s.

Much of I-76 West (nee I-80S) from Barberton to I-71 near Lodi used square-cornered extruded panel BGSs from it's opening (mid 60's) up until the late 70s when most were replaced in a massive replacement project.

One of my favorites was a lone extruded panel BGS on I-71 South at the I-76/US-224 exit which lasted until the late 90s. I cant remember if the corners were rounded or not, but at night you could make out where the sign originally had a centered US-224 shield (before I-80S was completed), and when the US-224 shield was moved to the right to make room for the I-80S shield. 

I assumed that when I-80S was relabeled I-76, ODOT took off the I-80S shield and never bothered to affix a new I-76 shield on the sign -- which is why you could see the ghost images of the removed/relocated shields -- as there was an overhead BGS with both shields just yards away.

[route17fan]

Ohio had at one point increment panel signs - going back to at least 1975 IRRC and then went to extruded panel signs I would say at some point in the 80s - or were we a state that used both simultaneously? (Is that possible?)

Man how I wish I could take a trip back in time to recall correctly.

Akron was a great example of using both extruded and increment panel signs at the same time going back to the early 60s.

The original North Leg of the expressway (SR-8) between E. Exchange and Tallmadge Ave used extruded BGSs when it was first built in the early 50s.  Many of those signs survived well into the 80's before being replaced.

The original East and West legs of the expressway (I-80S now I-76) from East Market Street to at least Main Street were mostly rounded-corner increment panel BGSs from the early 60s, when those sections were completed.  The last of those signs survived until the late 90s.

Much of I-76 West (nee I-80S) from Barberton to I-71 near Lodi used square-cornered extruded panel BGSs from it's opening (mid 60's) up until the late 70s when most were replaced in a massive replacement project.

One of my favorites was a lone extruded panel BGS on I-71 South at the I-76/US-224 exit which lasted until the late 90s. I cant remember if the corners were rounded or not, but at night you could make out where the sign originally had a centered US-224 shield (before I-80S was completed), and when the US-224 shield was moved to the right to make room for the I-80S shield. 

I assumed that when I-80S was relabeled I-76, ODOT took off the I-80S shield and never bothered to affix a new I-76 shield on the sign -- which is why you could see the ghost images of the removed/relocated shields -- as there was an overhead BGS with both shields just yards away.

Yes! I remember that sign on I-71 - I had a picture of it too! (it bit the dust when I threw away a whole box of sign pictures - oh if I could go back in time, I would stop myself from doing that)

[route17fan]

Come to think of it, I remember the sign at US 36/OH 37 (exit 131) having rounded corners and the black outline on the shields - and that would have been roughly 1975-ish and state named shields to boot and the two lane concrete road in each direction. The good ol' days