Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract

[shadyjay]

It'll remain to be seen what happens to I-95 west of New Haven CT.  Many of those exits are "close enough".  I-95 east of New Haven (well, east of Branford), however, should get the new numbers.  Branford to Madison is the largest stretch of button copy left on the interstate.

[jp the roadgeek]

There's a little bit of a difference on I-95 west of New Haven.  It's pretty close from the state line to Norwalk, but there's one exit in Fairfield (21) that's off by 4 miles (MP 25).  CT 8/25 is off by 2 miles (MP 29).  Things catch up again through Milford (Milford Connector and US 1 by the mall wouldn't change), diverge again through Orange and West Haven (42 is at MP 44), then are in unison at I-91 (47/48 would become 48 A/B).  The major divergence happens east of Exit 56.

I-84 in Danbury is also pretty straightforward up to Exit 8.  Only change would be Exit 2 (A/B WB) becoming Exit 1B EB and B/C WB.  The biggest Alphabet Cities in CT would be on CT 2 WB at I-84 (could go as high as 1F) and I-91 in New Haven (could go as high as 1E SB if the ramp to I-95 NB were to be numbered).

[Alps]

There’s a little bit of a difference on I-95 west of New Haven.  It’s pretty close from the state line to Norwalk, but there’s one exit in Fairfield (21) that’s off by 4 miles (MP 25).  CT 8/25 is off by 2 miles (MP 29).  Things catch up again through Milford (Milford Connector and US 1 by the mall wouldn’t change), diverge again through Orange and West Haven (42 is at MP 44), then are in unison at I-91 (47/48 would become 48 A/B).  The major divergence happens east of Exit 56.

I-84 in Danbury is also pretty straightforward up to Exit 8.  Only change would be Exit 2 (A/B WB) becoming Exit 1B EB and B/C WB.  The biggest Alphabet Cities in CT would be on CT 2 WB at I-84 (could go as high as 1F) and I-91 in New Haven (could go as high as 1E SB if the ramp to I-95 NB were to be numbered).

And they would likely skip E due to the East connotation, so 1G! Unless they decide G looks too much like 6.

[roadman]

And they would likely skip E due to the East connotation, so 1G! Unless they decide G looks too much like 6.

It doesn't help that the MUTCD, despite mandating milepost exit numbering, is totally silent on implementation issues such as these.

[PHLBOS]

And they would likely skip E due to the East connotation, so 1G! Unless they decide G looks too much like 6.

If memory serves, one reason why MUTCD specifies that there should be a gap between the exit number and letter-suffix was to avoid such confusion (B suffixes could be mistaken for 8).

[Duke87]

The biggest Alphabet Cities in CT would be on CT 2 WB at I-84 (could go as high as 1F) and I-91 in New Haven (could go as high as 1E SB if the ramp to I-95 NB were to be numbered).

This is why you use exit 0. I-91 would have 0A-B and 1A-C in that case... though CT 2 would still have 0 and 1A-E.

[RobbieL2415]

My guess is the simplest highways to renumber will get it first, so probably MA 24 and I-195. Then as follows:

I-84
I-91
I-395
I-290
I-190
MA 146
I-291
I-391
I-495
MA 140
I-93
MA-3
US 3
I-95
Free MA 128
Turnpike
MA 2

Routes that won't receive new numbers, IMO
MA 57
MA 88
US 5
US 1
MA 25
MA 28
US 6 (DUH)
US 44
I-295
Memorial Drive
Storrow Drive
Lowell Conn.

[bob7374]

My guess is the simplest highways to renumber will get it first, so probably MA 24 and I-195. Then as follows:

I-84
I-91
I-395
I-290
I-190
MA 146
I-291
I-391
I-495
MA 140
I-93
MA-3
US 3
I-95
Free MA 128
Turnpike
MA 2

Routes that won't receive new numbers, IMO
MA 57
MA 88
US 5
US 1
MA 25
MA 28
US 6 (DUH)
US 44
I-295
Memorial Drive
Storrow Drive
Lowell Conn.

Under the 2016 plan MA 28 and MA 57 would have received numbers. The Lowell Connector, MA 25, I-295, and of course US 6, would have gotten new numbers, the rest would have stayed numberless. I don't expect, except for maybe US 6, this will change if and when the renumbering project is revived.

[The Ghostbuster]

What's the likelihood that the switch to mileage-based exits will be revived? I thought those along the US 6 freeway killed the renumbering project for good?

[Beeper1]

Slim to none, unless the FHWA ever ends up forcing them to.  MassDOT doesn't seem to have much of a desire to push the issue any further. 

[PHLBOS]

My guess is the simplest highways to renumber will get it first, so probably MA 24 and I-195.

Personally, I would think that shorter Interstate routes would get renumbered first (examples: I-84, I-291, I-295, I-391).  Both I-195 & MA 24 are considerably longer.

Free MA 128

Not to break your stones but Free implies that the Yankee Division Highway (what was once all-128 decades ago) once had tolls.  Either MA 128 or non-Interstate portion of MA 128 would've sufficed in your listing.

[DJ Particle]

Necro'ing this thread because there was some discussion about it (in "Connecticut" of all places) and wondering if MA should pull an IA (i.e., numbering interchanges on non-freeway portions of highways, the first example being the US 6 exits in Truro (Pamet/Highland, which would be exits 106/109 in a mile-based scheme))

Would it make things easier...or more difficult?

[PHLBOS]

Necro'ing this thread because there was some discussion about it (in "Connecticut" of all places) and wondering if MA should pull an IA (i.e., numbering interchanges on non-freeway portions of highways, the first example being the US 6 exits in Truro (Pamet/Highland, which would be exits 106/109 in a mile-based scheme))

Would it make things easier...or more difficult?

Unnecessary IMHO & non-compliant w/current MUTCD standards.  If additional intersections are added due to a new subdivision, business park or whatever being built; such would cause multiple re-numberings (adding of suffixes or changing existing suffixes).

Yes, numbered intersections exist/existed along MA 128 in Gloucester/Cape Ann since 1962 but such was likely done under the presumption that the highway would be extended further east (it wasn't).  Exits 11 (MA 127/Grand Circle), 10 (MA 127 signalized intersection) & 9 (MA 127A signalized intersection) have long since been downplayed in terms of signage within the last 15-20 years.  Exits 10 & 9 are only mentioned on advance signage south/west of MA 133/Exit 14 and the only other Exit 11 sign is a small stand-alone one prior to MA 127/Grant Circle along 128 northbound.

The current mile-marker conversion plan from a few years ago called for these intersections to lose their numbering and all remaining signage (the two that are still present) indicating such to be taken down.

[5foot14]

Was there actually a time when exits 9, 10 and 11 were signed as actual exits with gore signs and such at the actual rotary/intersection? Grew up in Gloucester in the 90s and never remember such being the case. Just curious what the signage would've been like. I was always baffled as a kid by that sign on 128 north mentioning exit 14 as well as 11, 10 & 9 when they weren't signed that way at the actual location...

SM-G900P

[PHLBOS]

Back in the 80s/early 90s, other than the examples I posted (though older versions/variants) the only other signs I remember seeing was a NEXT EXIT 10 sign for the MA 127/Eastern Ave. intersection (such was similar to the fore-mentioned one for Exit 11) and approaching MA 127A/E. Main St./Bass Ave. an old button-copy (late 60s/early 70s vintage) ground-mounted BGS that read:

EXIT
  9
LAST
EXIT

Later on, that BGS was later replaced with an early 90s vintage (had the MA 128 shield rather than just numerals) D6 Paddle sign that read:

128 ENDS
   EXIT 9

I'm guessing that particular sign was removed/knocked over/vandalized sometime during the late 90s.

[DJ Particle]

Was there actually a time when exits 9, 10 and 11 were signed as actual exits with gore signs and such at the actual rotary/intersection?

There was also a time when the Orleans Rotary was signed as Exits 13N/S.  I still remember the "Exit 13S" sign that used to hang below the sign for [6A][28].

[AMLNet49]

Was there actually a time when exits 9, 10 and 11 were signed as actual exits with gore signs and such at the actual rotary/intersection?

There was also a time when the Orleans Rotary was signed as Exits 13N/S.  I still remember the "Exit 13S" sign that used to hang below the sign for [6A][28].

And ironically the new LGS layouts are based on BGS layouts, meaning any new signage posted at the rotary would look much more like legit "exit" signage than the old "exit 13" plaques hanging below paddle signs

[RobbieL2415]

Was there actually a time when exits 9, 10 and 11 were signed as actual exits with gore signs and such at the actual rotary/intersection?

There was also a time when the Orleans Rotary was signed as Exits 13N/S.  I still remember the "Exit 13S" sign that used to hang below the sign for [6A][28].

I believe it is still internally listed as such.

[The Ghostbuster]

I doubt conversion to mileage-based exits in Massachusetts will be revived anytime soon. I think will probably be, at the minimum, a few decades before any such consideration reoccurs. That is, if such a reconsideration happens at all.

[PHLBOS]

I doubt conversion to mileage-based exits in Massachusetts will be revived anytime soon. I think will probably be, at the minimum, a few decades before any such consideration reoccurs. That is, if such a reconsideration happens at all.

Out of curiousity; what is the basis for your reasoning?  At present, neighboring RI & even CT (though slowly) are converting.  Such wasn't in play when MA originally proposed the conversion.

As I stated multiple times in this thread, MA (eastern MA in particular) has changed its exit numbers on many of its highways several times since the early 1960s.  In the Greater Boston area, only the Mass Pike (I-90) & US 3 still have their originally-assigned exit numbers.  Yes, those along the Cape went bonkers when word got out that the Mid-Cape Highway portion of US 6 was slated to receive higher numbers for its interchanges due to the mile-marker conversions; but such shouldn't interfere with MA, at a minimum, converting its Interstates towards such numbering.  Time will tell.

[The Ghostbuster]

The basis of my reasoning is that it only took a few Cape Cod officials complaining to bring the whole conversion to a screeching halt. I am aware that MA 128's and MA 3's exits have been renumbered since the roads were first constructed. If a few powerful politicians can bring projects in-state to a halt, then to me, Massachusetts's exit renumbering scheme is dead-in-the-water.

[5foot14]

It probably didn't help that there was essentially zero public outreach for the conversion. I bet if they actually ran a public outreach program, highlighting the benefits and giving a clear timetable, more people would be receptive to it.

SM-G900P

[Brandon]

There’s a little bit of a difference on I-95 west of New Haven.  It’s pretty close from the state line to Norwalk, but there’s one exit in Fairfield (21) that’s off by 4 miles (MP 25).  CT 8/25 is off by 2 miles (MP 29).  Things catch up again through Milford (Milford Connector and US 1 by the mall wouldn’t change), diverge again through Orange and West Haven (42 is at MP 44), then are in unison at I-91 (47/48 would become 48 A/B).  The major divergence happens east of Exit 56.

I-84 in Danbury is also pretty straightforward up to Exit 8.  Only change would be Exit 2 (A/B WB) becoming Exit 1B EB and B/C WB.  The biggest Alphabet Cities in CT would be on CT 2 WB at I-84 (could go as high as 1F) and I-91 in New Haven (could go as high as 1E SB if the ramp to I-95 NB were to be numbered).

And they would likely skip E due to the East connotation, so 1G! Unless they decide G looks too much like 6.

Why? https://goo.gl/maps/3NwwMkGyqCaSzUyXA

[vdeane]

It probably didn't help that there was essentially zero public outreach for the conversion. I bet if they actually ran a public outreach program, highlighting the benefits and giving a clear timetable, more people would be receptive to it.

If it wasn't for their "all guide signs must be overhead, no exceptions" mandate, it probably would have flown under the radar.  That's what drew everyone's attention to US 6... and once attention was drawn, the exit number changes were noticed too.  Given that this is New England, the more chances someone has to object, the more likely something like this is to be doomed.

[bob7374]

It probably didn't help that there was essentially zero public outreach for the conversion. I bet if they actually ran a public outreach program, highlighting the benefits and giving a clear timetable, more people would be receptive to it.

SM-G900P

As I, and others, have commented before, IMO it was a mistake for MassDOT to not at least go ahead with the renumbering along the Mass Pike as part of the currently still ongoing sign replacement contracts. They could have promoted it to the public as a pilot project and allowed drivers to get used to the new system before rolling it out statewide.

As for when MassDOT finally concedes to exit renumbering, when the next MUTCD comes out if, as currently, MA along with NH and VT are the only states not to at least start converting some of their highways to mileage based numbers, it may come with a deadline (which was taken out of the current document) to force the remaining states to adopt the practice, whether they like it or not.