Highways with the same number near state lines

Started by bugo, December 06, 2017, 02:42:49 AM

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US71

Quote from: bugo on December 06, 2017, 02:42:49 AM

In the US/AR 59 and the US/WY 89 examples, were there disputes to which side of the border the US highway would follow, and did the "losing" state number their highway out of spite?

The original AR 59 is now AR 159 at Eudora.

AR 59 was once Detour US 59 from Siloam Springs, south as modern US 59 was built in Oklahoma. After it was finished the detour became AR 59

North of Siloam Springs, it was (I believe) AR 107 to Gravette until around 1960 when US 71 was shifted from Gravette to Bentonville/Bella Vista.





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Max Rockatansky

Some others that do come to mind that actually touch are; CA/NV 88, CA/NV 28, AZ/NM 75, AZ/NM 80, FL/GA/SC 121, AZ/NM 264,

jwolfer

Florida 23 and Georgia 23... Not to mention US 23 all near Jacksonville.

FL/GA 121 and Nassau County FL CR 121 run parallel on opposite sides of the St Mary's River.



Z981


bugo

Quote from: US71 on December 09, 2017, 07:57:11 PM
Quote from: bugo on December 06, 2017, 02:42:49 AM

In the US/AR 59 and the US/WY 89 examples, were there disputes to which side of the border the US highway would follow, and did the "losing" state number their highway out of spite?

The original AR 59 is now AR 159 at Eudora.

AR 59 was once Detour US 59 from Siloam Springs, south as modern US 59 was built in Oklahoma. After it was finished the detour became AR 59

Where did you get this information? You have mentioned it before but I have never seen any evidence of it. Do you have a scan or a picture of a map showing a detour US 59? The map below shows, oddly enough, US 59 following US 64 through Fort Smith but this is the only evidence I have of US 59 in Arkansas north of Polk County. You might be the one who originally sent me this map.


bugo

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 09, 2017, 10:49:18 PM
Some others that do come to mind that actually touch are; CA/NV 88, CA/NV 28, AZ/NM 75, AZ/NM 80, FL/GA/SC 121, AZ/NM 264,

Those do not count because they are highways that keep their number when they cross state lines. I was talking about two roads that actually intersect each other.

hotdogPi

Quote from: bugo on December 10, 2017, 02:55:20 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 09, 2017, 10:49:18 PM
Some others that do come to mind that actually touch are; CA/NV 88, CA/NV 28, AZ/NM 75, AZ/NM 80, FL/GA/SC 121, AZ/NM 264,

Those do not count because they are highways that keep their number when they cross state lines. I was talking about two roads that actually intersect each other.

That's the other thread.
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US71

Yes, that's something I sent to you.

I've sent a couple map scans, but am looking for more sources I thought I had, but are missing.

1933 Arkansas Official : no indication of US 59 at all

1936 MidWest Maps of Arkansas: US 59 follows AR 99 and AR 45

1936 Ark Official shows AR 59, but no US 59 in Oklahoma or Arkansas

1940: US 59 complete in Oklahoma
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US 89

#32
Quote from: bugo on December 06, 2017, 02:42:49 AM
In the US/AR 59 and the US/WY 89 examples, were there disputes to which side of the border the US highway would follow, and did the "losing" state number their highway out of spite?

The US/WY 89 example was indeed caused by a dispute. Originally in 1926 US 89 only went up as far as Spanish Fork UT and there was no 189. Wyoming had originally numbered today's WY 89 as WY 65, but in 1926 they changed it to 89 to try to get US 89 extended up that way. Then it was announced that US 89 would be extended north, and a dispute began on the routing, between Utah/Idaho and Wyoming. Apparently the plan was initially to extend US 89 along today's US 189, so WY 89 was renumbered to WY 91 to reduce confusion. But then a few years later, AASHTO decided in favor of Utah and Idaho, putting US 89 on its current route, and Wyoming got US 189 instead. Wyoming was so pissed off that they renumbered WY 91 back to WY 89.

corco

#33
Montana and North Dakota 16s are very close to each other, for what appears to be no apparent reason. To my knowledge, there isn't any signage to clarify the situation - though I'm not sure it's a big deal. If you were going westbound on I-94, heading to Sidney or points north in Montana, you would take ND 16. If you are going eastbound on I-94, heading to Sidney or points north in Montana/North Dakota, you would take MT 16.

paulthemapguy

WI-120 isn't far from IL-120.  WI-31, WI-50 and WI-20 are both not far from the Chicago area which is home to IL-50, IL-31 and US20.  But the 120's are far more bothersome.
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bzakharin

DE 1 and US 1 (in PA) are about 12 miles apart at their closest

kphoger

Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 06, 2017, 05:37:09 AM
In a similar vein to MN/ON 11, I-2 and Mexico 2 :sombrero:.

But, unlike with Minnesota and Ontario, this one exists because both México and the USA both have geographical numbering schemes.  As with US Highways, Mexican federal highways get even numbers for east-west corridors, with the lowest numbers in the north.  Because the numbering scheme for Interstates is flip-flopped to US Highways, that puts the US—Mexican border as the zero point for both schemes in question.
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Quote from: kphoger on December 12, 2017, 03:43:28 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 06, 2017, 05:37:09 AM
In a similar vein to MN/ON 11, I-2 and Mexico 2 :sombrero:.

But, unlike with Minnesota and Ontario, this one exists because both México and the USA both have geographical numbering schemes.  As with US Highways, Mexican federal highways get even numbers for east-west corridors, with the lowest numbers in the north.  Because the numbering scheme for Interstates is flip-flopped to US Highways, that puts the US—Mexican border as the zero point for both schemes in question.

If it is too confusing, then switch I-2 and I-4. That could make it a little less confusing.
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TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: Hurricane Rex on December 13, 2017, 02:21:04 AM
Quote from: kphoger on December 12, 2017, 03:43:28 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 06, 2017, 05:37:09 AM
In a similar vein to MN/ON 11, I-2 and Mexico 2 :sombrero:.

But, unlike with Minnesota and Ontario, this one exists because both México and the USA both have geographical numbering schemes.  As with US Highways, Mexican federal highways get even numbers for east-west corridors, with the lowest numbers in the north.  Because the numbering scheme for Interstates is flip-flopped to US Highways, that puts the US—Mexican border as the zero point for both schemes in question.

If it is too confusing, then switch I-2 and I-4. That could make it a little less confusing.

To be blunt, I think anyone who confuses two routes in two separate countries is too dumb to drive. There are a lot of stupid drivers but that would be unfathomably stupid.
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TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: bugo on December 06, 2017, 02:42:49 AM
MN 11/ON 11. These highways parallel the Rainy River and the international boundary and in places are less than a mile apart. Since they are in different countries, I doubt there is a whole lot of confusion.

I can't remember the exact details but if I remember right ON 11 wasn't the original number for that road along the Rainy River.
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Mapmikey

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 13, 2017, 02:54:58 AM
Quote from: bugo on December 06, 2017, 02:42:49 AM
MN 11/ON 11. These highways parallel the Rainy River and the international boundary and in places are less than a mile apart. Since they are in different countries, I doubt there is a whole lot of confusion.

I can't remember the exact details but if I remember right ON 11 wasn't the original number for that road along the Rainy River.

1956 Rand McN shows ON 11 as ON 71 (today's ON 71 was ON 70)...

kphoger

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 13, 2017, 02:48:30 AM
Quote from: Hurricane Rex on December 13, 2017, 02:21:04 AM
Quote from: kphoger on December 12, 2017, 03:43:28 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 06, 2017, 05:37:09 AM
In a similar vein to MN/ON 11, I-2 and Mexico 2 :sombrero:.

But, unlike with Minnesota and Ontario, this one exists because both México and the USA both have geographical numbering schemes.  As with US Highways, Mexican federal highways get even numbers for east-west corridors, with the lowest numbers in the north.  Because the numbering scheme for Interstates is flip-flopped to US Highways, that puts the US—Mexican border as the zero point for both schemes in question.

If it is too confusing, then switch I-2 and I-4. That could make it a little less confusing.

To be blunt, I think anyone who confuses two routes in two separate countries is too dumb to drive. There are a lot of stupid drivers but that would be unfathomably stupid.

If you have somehow managed to end up on the wrong Hwy 2 in that part of the world, then there was some serious shit going on.
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Male pronouns, please.

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CNGL-Leudimin

Extending "state" to mean any subdivision type, the only example I could think of in Spain is NA-134 and LR-134 near San Adrian, Navarre. They come within one mile of each other. In fact LR-134 heads on an intersection course with NA-134, but it is stopped short by the Rioja/Navarre border, and the final section is numbered NA-6531.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 06, 2017, 11:34:52 PM
If we're talking different, non-continuous highways:

MD 28 and VA 28 (8 mi. across the Potomac; close until VA 28 is replaced by I-366 :bigass:)

VA 28 will be replaced with I-666 :evilgrin:.
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Please note that I may mention "invalid" FM channels, i.e. ending in an even number or down to 87.5. These are valid in Europe.

bugo

Quote from: roadguy2 on December 10, 2017, 04:53:09 PM
The US/WY 89 example was indeed caused by a dispute. Originally in 1926 US 89 only went up as far as Spanish Fork UT and there was no 189. Wyoming had originally numbered today's WY 89 as WY 65, but in 1926 they changed it to 89 to try to get US 89 extended up that way. Then it was announced that US 89 would be extended north, and a dispute began on the routing, between Utah/Idaho and Wyoming. Apparently the plan was initially to extend US 89 along today's US 189, so WY 89 was renumbered to WY 91 to reduce confusion. But then a few years later, AASHTO decided in favor of Utah and Idaho, putting US 89 on its current route, and Wyoming got US 189 instead. Wyoming was so pissed off that they renumbered WY 91 back to WY 89.

Yes! This is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for when I created this topic. Thanks for the information.

JCinSummerfield


wriddle082

TN 70 and US 70 in North Carolina.  When heading south on TN 70, you cross into North Carolina and the road becomes NC 208, which runs for a winding 8 miles or so before intersecting US 70.

Not sure if KY 7 and OH 7 count since they're a little over 25 miles apart, and that includes going through WV for the shortest connection via I-64 and US 52.  But they are in the same metro area (if you consider Grayson, KY a part of it, which I do).

roadman65

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NE2

Quote from: roadguy2 on December 10, 2017, 04:53:09 PM
The US/WY 89 example was indeed caused by a dispute. Originally in 1926 US 89 only went up as far as Spanish Fork UT and there was no 189. Wyoming had originally numbered today's WY 89 as WY 65, but in 1926 they changed it to 89 to try to get US 89 extended up that way. Then it was announced that US 89 would be extended north, and a dispute began on the routing, between Utah/Idaho and Wyoming. Apparently the plan was initially to extend US 89 along today's US 189, so WY 89 was renumbered to WY 91 to reduce confusion. But then a few years later, AASHTO decided in favor of Utah and Idaho, putting US 89 on its current route, and Wyoming got US 189 instead. Wyoming was so pissed off that they renumbered WY 91 back to WY 89.


Here's a 1937 map that shows what both Utah and Wyoming wanted to do: http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~23818~920003:Road-map-Idaho,-Mont-,-Wyo-
pre-1945 Florida route log

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roadman65

I have the old circle shields in a photo taken in 2001 in Downtown Bennington where US 7 and VT 9 intersect.  It has TO NY 7 in text with WB VT 9's arrow.

DK if its still there or not, but it was a classic and unfortunately was before digital photo, so I have it in print and on negative.  Maybe someday if I transfer it I will upload to flickr.
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