Indiana Notes

[tdindy88]

Also, I noticed that INDOT are expanding their ITS along I-65 in Boone, Clinton, Jasper, Tippecanoe, and White counties... 

May I ask how they are expanding their ITS, signs? cameras? I remember years ago I saw a map from the state that did show expanded ITS coverage along I-65, I-70 and I-69 across the state but thought that the state decided not to do so.

Also, what is the condition of I-65 in the Lafayette area? Is that project finished?

[silverback1065]

It looks like they started the widening on the Columbus to Seymour segment of I-65 last week: http://www.wdrb.com/story/37950941/indiana-officials-break-ground-on-143-million-expansion-of-i-65

Looks like it was funded by the 10 cent gas tax increase last year. https://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/indianapolis/construction-season-is-officially-underway-in-indiana

So what parts of I-65 will still be two lanes after this and all current projects are complete?  I know northern Indiana better than southern so please correct me if I'm wrong on this list.

Radially out from Indy:

• US 52 - IN 38 - 27 Mi
• IN 25 - IN 2 - 65 Mi
• IN 44 - IN 58 - 26 Mi
• US 50 - Blue Lick Rd? - 34 Mi

I wonder which segment (or part of a segment) will be done next?  Many bridges between IN 25 and IN 2 are already wide enough for 3 lanes and the Kankakee River bridge is being expanded so I'm sure parts of that will be done in the not so distant future.  Although, to me, it makes sense to continue from IN-44 down to IN 58.  Much shorter segment and pretty heavily traveled.  What do you guys think?

you're missing 465 to 865 this portion boarders eagle creek park, so i would assume the widening would be in the median.

[csw]

I don't think I-65 near Lafayette is done, I haven't been out there for several weeks but as far I know it's still ongoing.

[nwi_navigator_1181]

I don't think I-65 near Lafayette is done, I haven't been out there for several weeks but as far I know it's still ongoing.

When we went to Florida a few weeks ago, it looked like a lot of the heavy machinery was gone from the area. The lanes were driveable, but it looked like there was a considerable amount of cosmetic work left to go (guard rails, rumble strips, etc.), preventing the third lane from being open in each direction.

As for which section of I-65 gets widened next, I'm thinking the stretch from Indiana 2 to Indiana 14 gets it next. The biggest reason is that, with the exception of a couple bridges just south of Indiana 2, all the bridges between the aforementioned stretch (including the Kankakee River bridge by this year's end) will already be built to accommodate a third lane, making future work there a relative breeze (and possibly a one-cycle venture). I'd think they would terminate that section south of Indiana 14, where the road noise zone ends.

Speaking of the work currently in progress on I-65 here in my region, some observations and questions...

The future outer shoulder in both directions have been carved out at least between US 30 and 109th Avenue (based on camera shots). Have they gone further south of there?

I noticed at the Indiana 2 camera that work to build the new inside lanes haven't yet started, but I did notice what appeared to be a new gantry for an overhead sign...possibly a lane ends warning?

Back to the road noise area (that stretch around Indiana 14 that used to be all concrete)...was there any specific reason that the concrete was replaced with that unique surface? I figured concrete patching would've been considerably easier.

[billtm]

I don't think I-65 near Lafayette is done, I haven't been out there for several weeks but as far I know it's still ongoing.

The last time I drove down I-65 to Indy and back was last Tuesday (April 10), and at that point in time the third lanes weren't open to traffic yet, though they looked to be mostly complete.

[silverback1065]

I don't think I-65 near Lafayette is done, I haven't been out there for several weeks but as far I know it's still ongoing.

When we went to Florida a few weeks ago, it looked like a lot of the heavy machinery was gone from the area. The lanes were driveable, but it looked like there was a considerable amount of cosmetic work left to go (guard rails, rumble strips, etc.), preventing the third lane from being open in each direction.

As for which section of I-65 gets widened next, I'm thinking the stretch from Indiana 2 to Indiana 14 gets it next. The biggest reason is that, with the exception of a couple bridges just south of Indiana 2, all the bridges between the aforementioned stretch (including the Kankakee River bridge by this year's end) will already be built to accommodate a third lane, making future work there a relative breeze (and possibly a one-cycle venture). I'd think they would terminate that section south of Indiana 14, where the road noise zone ends.

Speaking of the work currently in progress on I-65 here in my region, some observations and questions...

The future outer shoulder in both directions have been carved out at least between US 30 and 109th Avenue (based on camera shots). Have they gone further south of there?

I noticed at the Indiana 2 camera that work to build the new inside lanes haven't yet started, but I did notice what appeared to be a new gantry for an overhead sign...possibly a lane ends warning?

Back to the road noise area (that stretch around Indiana 14 that used to be all concrete)...was there any specific reason that the concrete was replaced with that unique surface? I figured concrete patching would've been considerably easier.

not sure what surface you're talking about, but INDOT has been trying this special surface on a lot of bridges around the state, it could be that.  It is a special type of asphalt with a much lower freezing point than normal asphalt.  one bridge I know for sure it's on is 465 on the east side, just north of the 70 interchange.

[dvferyance]

Yesterday coming home from Cincinnati I decided to make a a slight detour to Greenwood to check out the fairly new Worthsville Rd DDI interchange. Just west of the interchange a school zone which is strictly patrolled. Indaina's laws on school zones are far stricter than in my state and it wasn't aware of it. I was pulled of and thankfully was let off with a warning but it was still no fun being pulled over 300 miles away from home. I just thought I would mention this to anyone thinking about checking this out sometime. I did some research and it turns out the school zone law in Indiana applies to 7-4 on every school day regardless of whether children are present or not. I was there around 3:30 PM. I don't get why they did not install some sort of warning lights to make it clear to drivers being so close to a freeway interchange.

[bmeiser]

It actually depends on the school district.  In Carmel, it's 7-7 but only when school is in session (ie: not in the summer).  In some places in Marion county, they've installed school zone speed limit sirens with flashing lights and you're only required to observe that speed limit when the lights are flashing.  The lights appear to be controlled / scheduled by the individual schools because I've noticed that some flash at different times than others.  I pass 3 different schools on the way to work: 1 public, one private, and the school for the blind.  They're all on different schedules.

[monty]

INDOT says I 65 Lafayette project opens to three lanes each way on Monday.

[SSR_317]

INDOT says I 65 Lafayette project opens to three lanes each way on Monday.

Cool, thanks for the update! Just in time for the hot weather (one extreme to the other, that's Indiana for ya). I'm also sure drivers from up north heading here next month for the 500 will appreciate the added lanes around Lafayette.

[NWI_Irish96]

INDOT says I 65 Lafayette project opens to three lanes each way on Monday.

Cool, thanks for the update! Just in time for the hot weather (one extreme to the other, that's Indiana for ya). I'm also sure drivers from up north heading here next month for the 500 will appreciate the added lanes around Lafayette.

Yes we will.

[silverback1065]

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2018/05/03/indot-looks-7-different-ways-rethink-downtown-indys-highways/573356002/

god i hope the removal advocates lose this one.  it's shocking that such a small amount of traffic is through traffic

[NWI_Irish96]

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2018/05/03/indot-looks-7-different-ways-rethink-downtown-indys-highways/573356002/

god i hope the removal advocates lose this one.  it's shocking that such a small amount of traffic is through traffic

Not entirely sure how they are defining through traffic.
Traffic going all the way through on 65 or 70 is only minorly inconvenienced if they have to go around on 465.
The bigger problem is traffic originating within the 465 beltway that is going to or beyond the other side of town.  If you need to go from UIndy to Butler or something like that you are royally screwed if the duplex part of 65/70 goes away.

[silverback1065]

it will get worse if they remove it, the surface streets can't handle the extra traffic, the major north south streets are going to get a road diet to make way for the red line bus no one is going to use. 

[Revive 755]

Might be of interest:  https://northsplit.com/system-level-analysis/

[jhuntin1]

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2018/05/03/indot-looks-7-different-ways-rethink-downtown-indys-highways/573356002/

god i hope the removal advocates lose this one.  it's shocking that such a small amount of traffic is through traffic

I read that article earlier today over lunch and was amazed that as of 12:30 PM the underground option in the poll was leading. That's all Indianapolis needs, a Big Dig-style debacle. I would have guessed that the amount of through traffic was low, but I didn't think it was that low.

Thanks, Revive, for posting that link. The myth vs. fact document is very informative, among other information at the site.

[silverback1065]

I'm looking at this from a regional perspective, these highways are needed for the region as a whole, the mass transit planned doesn't go to any of the suburbs.  I like all the ideas except the blvd only option.  The new west leg idea is actually pretty cool, I actually like that one.  I just feel like any tunnel idea is a nonstarter, it's going to cost to much, and i just don't see them paying for it.  I wish they'd bury them and add the fabled 69 connection in the process.  I feel like this story is being reported as if the only people involved are downtown, this is a regional problem.  I also don't trust Indianapolis in taking care of the maintenance of the blvds.  They can't even be trusted in taking care of the roads they already have!  The myth/fact document was very helpful, the media has been very fallacious in their reporting of this story.  It really pissed me off with that fake news plans that they peddled, claiming that was the final design!

[paulthemapguy]

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2018/05/03/indot-looks-7-different-ways-rethink-downtown-indys-highways/573356002/

god i hope the removal advocates lose this one.  it's shocking that such a small amount of traffic is through traffic

It's really not shocking at all--I-465 was created to accommodate all of the through traffic, and the urban freeways were left so the city can be accessed from the outside.  That's just how traffic works in urban areas with beltways around them.  I say this as someone who comes from the Chicago area and uses I-465 anytime I wish to access any points to the south and east.

[billtm]

Might be of interest:  https://northsplit.com/system-level-analysis/

Personally, I feel like the best option is concept 2 when cost is factored in. Except I wouldn't do the tolling part of it because I feel that would be ineffective for a city like Indy, and instead of BRT I would do light rail (because I feel people are more likely to ride trains than buses). I like concept 2 the best because in my experience with driving in downtown Indy, traffic hasn't been a major issue, so I don't feel like the Interstates need extra lanes. Though, to be fair, I don't have too much experience driving in downtown Indy (I only do it about 4 times per year).

[silverback1065]

Might be of interest:  https://northsplit.com/system-level-analysis/

Personally, I feel like the best option is concept 2 when cost is factored in. Except I wouldn't do the tolling part of it because I feel that would be ineffective for a city like Indy, and instead of BRT I would do light rail (because I feel people are more likely to ride trains than buses). I like concept 2 the best because in my experience with driving in downtown Indy, traffic hasn't been a major issue, so I don't feel like the Interstates need extra lanes. Though, to be fair, I don't have too much experience driving in downtown Indy (I only do it about 4 times per year).

light rail is illegal to build in indianapolis, due to the state legislature, also, there is no mass transit in the suburbs, and the transit that we do have doesn't even serve Marion county fully.  70 coming in surprises me, it's the busiest stretch of interstate in the city, and probably in the state, I'm sure the borman is higher though. Also traffic is pretty good on the surface streets because of the interstates.  also, they aren't widening it per se, it's just removing the exits from the left to be from the right, aux lanes will be added.

[billtm]

Might be of interest:  https://northsplit.com/system-level-analysis/

Personally, I feel like the best option is concept 2 when cost is factored in. Except I wouldn't do the tolling part of it because I feel that would be ineffective for a city like Indy, and instead of BRT I would do light rail (because I feel people are more likely to ride trains than buses). I like concept 2 the best because in my experience with driving in downtown Indy, traffic hasn't been a major issue, so I don't feel like the Interstates need extra lanes. Though, to be fair, I don't have too much experience driving in downtown Indy (I only do it about 4 times per year).

light rail is illegal to build in indianapolis, due to the state legislature, also, there is no mass transit in the suburbs, and the transit that we do have doesn't even serve Marion county fully.  70 coming in surprises me, it's the busiest stretch of interstate in the city, and probably in the state, I'm sure the borman is higher though. Also traffic is pretty good on the surface streets because of the interstates.  also, they aren't widening it per se, it's just removing the exits from the left to be from the right, aux lanes will be added.

Yeah I think that reconfiguring the interchanges is much needed, but all of the other concepts have things that I either don't support or don't think are needed. Looking at the diagrams for the Upgrading Existing Interstates concept, they want to add 1 travel lane in each direction to I-65 between the north split and the West St. interchange and they want to add 2 travel lanes in each direction to the I-65/I-70 overlap, but I don't think that those extra lanes are necessary. Boulevards would create an unreasonable amount of added congestion, tunnels would be unreasonably expensive, and the new interstate link also seems like it would cost way too much.

Why in the world would the state legislature ban light rail? That just makes so little sense to me.

[silverback1065]

Might be of interest:  https://northsplit.com/system-level-analysis/

Personally, I feel like the best option is concept 2 when cost is factored in. Except I wouldn't do the tolling part of it because I feel that would be ineffective for a city like Indy, and instead of BRT I would do light rail (because I feel people are more likely to ride trains than buses). I like concept 2 the best because in my experience with driving in downtown Indy, traffic hasn't been a major issue, so I don't feel like the Interstates need extra lanes. Though, to be fair, I don't have too much experience driving in downtown Indy (I only do it about 4 times per year).

light rail is illegal to build in indianapolis, due to the state legislature, also, there is no mass transit in the suburbs, and the transit that we do have doesn't even serve Marion county fully.  70 coming in surprises me, it's the busiest stretch of interstate in the city, and probably in the state, I'm sure the borman is higher though. Also traffic is pretty good on the surface streets because of the interstates.  also, they aren't widening it per se, it's just removing the exits from the left to be from the right, aux lanes will be added.

Yeah I think that reconfiguring the interchanges is much needed, but all of the other concepts have things that I either don't support or don't think are needed. Looking at the diagrams for the Upgrading Existing Interstates concept, they want to add 1 travel lane in each direction to I-65 between the north split and the West St. interchange and they want to add 2 travel lanes in each direction to the I-65/I-70 overlap, but I don't think that those extra lanes are necessary. Boulevards would create an unreasonable amount of added congestion, tunnels would be unreasonably expensive, and the new interstate link also seems like it would cost way too much.

Why in the world would the state legislature ban light rail? That just makes so little sense to me.

i can't remember the reason, but it wasn't a good one.  the red line is going to fuck up traffic anyway, every road it goes on will lose 2 lanes of traffic to buses!

[paulthemapguy]

The junction of US41 and IN-114 at Morocco now has this Michigan left garbage.  This photo was taken facing west.  I guess the village of Morocco didn't want people continuing west on IN-114 and getting lost in their town.


IN-US41-114W by Paul Drives, on Flickr

[Aaron Camp]

Drove US 231 from Crawfordsville to Lafayette on Thursday afternoon and it was completely over capacity for a two lane highway. Both directions were non-stop columns of cars, not a single gap ever occurred in which one could do a safe pass. I felt sorry for some car waiting in a rural driveway down in a creek bed where the winding road and rising terrain had no more that 200 feet visibility in either direction. They were waiting for how long for any gap in the traffic to make a desperate turn onto the road which may have 60mph traffic coming around the trees at any second. Lafayette has absolutely terrible road access to westbound I-74 for freight and passenger vehicles. Hoosier Heartland Highway is sort of a road to nowhere, it dumps you right in Lafayette with no easy access through the city on to a further southwest movement. It's almost easier to continue on US24 from Logansport all the way to I-57. Not a well thought out regional highway plan.

If my parents had to drive me to Lafayette for any reason (I live in Westville, Illinois), they'd probably take US-150/IL-1 to US-136 to IN-63 to IN-263 to IN-28 to IN-25. That might be a less congested route than I-74 to US-231 would be, even if it's a convoluted one.

A Danville, Illinois to Lafayette, Indiana freeway or expressway connection would be fantastic (especially if it could be linked to the IN-25 portion of the Hoosier Heartland corridor), but I don't think there's ever been anything resembling a serious proposal by IDOT and INDOT to build such a freeway.

[billtm]

Drove US 231 from Crawfordsville to Lafayette on Thursday afternoon and it was completely over capacity for a two lane highway. Both directions were non-stop columns of cars, not a single gap ever occurred in which one could do a safe pass. I felt sorry for some car waiting in a rural driveway down in a creek bed where the winding road and rising terrain had no more that 200 feet visibility in either direction. They were waiting for how long for any gap in the traffic to make a desperate turn onto the road which may have 60mph traffic coming around the trees at any second. Lafayette has absolutely terrible road access to westbound I-74 for freight and passenger vehicles. Hoosier Heartland Highway is sort of a road to nowhere, it dumps you right in Lafayette with no easy access through the city on to a further southwest movement. It's almost easier to continue on US24 from Logansport all the way to I-57. Not a well thought out regional highway plan.

If my parents had to drive me to Lafayette for any reason (I live in Westville, Illinois), they'd probably take US-150/IL-1 to US-136 to IN-63 to IN-263 to IN-28 to IN-25. That might be a less congested route than I-74 to US-231 would be, even if it's a convoluted one.

A Danville, Illinois to Lafayette, Indiana freeway or expressway connection would be fantastic (especially if it could be linked to the IN-25 portion of the Hoosier Heartland corridor), but I don't think there's ever been anything resembling a serious proposal by IDOT and INDOT to build such a freeway.

That would be nice, but I think it would be nice for such a small amount of people that we are at least 20 years out from a southwest extension of the Hoosier Heartland around the south side of Lafayette to Danville becoming a reality. (Though I imagine the highway terminating at I-74 well before Danville. I would put its terminus somewhere between the interchange with US-41, and where SR-341 crosses I-74)